Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
So that's just a deal the PD works out with a LGS? What's the typical percentage of MSRP they're selling them to the LGS for?
** Disclaimer: I'm wondering how feasible it would be to give out police trade-ins to poor-yet-law-abiding citizens rather than sell them for pennies on the dollar.
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There was a time when the city police departments 'auctioned' off their firearms, when they upgraded. Made for some interesting "civilian abilities" over the years.
Especially from the Canadian perspective.
Especially from the Canadian perspective.
Say your department has 500 officers using Glock "A" or in the wayback you had S&W model 10's and 14's and you are upgrading to something new and exciting.
You post a request for bids on where ever you post this crap and any FFL company can submit a bid. Many offers will say something like, "We'll pay your department a flat rate of $125 dollars per gun for every serviceable current issued sidearm and $7 dollars per serviceable magazine returned to our company in credit towards a new firearm and magazines." Then the department offers up 500 current sidearms and 3,000 magazines to the vendor.
So the department would get $83,500 dollars in credit towards it's purchase and it would be able to legally and thru proper FFL channels get rid of it's old crap and not carry hundreds of unwanted guns on it's books.
And typically, the department would stipulate officers who want their current duty gun can purchase it from the vendor or option to have it transferred to a FFL for the contracted price plus fees for transfer to them.
My buddy bought all the shotguns from a state patrol under a similar deal. Any trooper who wanted his shotty could buy it back for his bid price plus $35 for the paperwork, the troopers had first right of refusal if they attached their names to the guns. Many of them were pissed because they had a side deal with the guy they expected to win and he bid $100 bucks a gun or something. My buddy bid $150 and won. They were roundly pissed to pay more and drive further to get their guns back.
You post a request for bids on where ever you post this crap and any FFL company can submit a bid. Many offers will say something like, "We'll pay your department a flat rate of $125 dollars per gun for every serviceable current issued sidearm and $7 dollars per serviceable magazine returned to our company in credit towards a new firearm and magazines." Then the department offers up 500 current sidearms and 3,000 magazines to the vendor.
So the department would get $83,500 dollars in credit towards it's purchase and it would be able to legally and thru proper FFL channels get rid of it's old crap and not carry hundreds of unwanted guns on it's books.
And typically, the department would stipulate officers who want their current duty gun can purchase it from the vendor or option to have it transferred to a FFL for the contracted price plus fees for transfer to them.
My buddy bought all the shotguns from a state patrol under a similar deal. Any trooper who wanted his shotty could buy it back for his bid price plus $35 for the paperwork, the troopers had first right of refusal if they attached their names to the guns. Many of them were pissed because they had a side deal with the guy they expected to win and he bid $100 bucks a gun or something. My buddy bid $150 and won. They were roundly pissed to pay more and drive further to get their guns back.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
That makes me think there's an opportunity to collaborate with the LGS to make that work even if the PD can't directly give guns to citizens.
In our state, the departments purchasing new items, trade their old items to a distributor/dealer, and the distributor owns the officer carried trade ins....
Distributor can offer/sell them back to individual officers on a 4473, and sell the remnant to the public at any price the market holds on a 4473.
A department can gift them to any other LE department. And the appropriate gov paperwork tracks that transfer.
Same with vehicles, radios, etc., sale or gift.
The state, has a surplus department, and anything the state has owned besides firearms can first go to a county or municipal entity then optioned at public sale to civilians.
In our state, there is no gifting of firearms to citizens.
They go to a distributor or dealer and are resold on a 4473 to legal buyers.
Other firearms in dept inventory can be bid on by dealers through the state/county/municipal surplus departments.
Once upon a time, b4 guns were bad, they WERE sold at public auction and could have been bought by the public.
In our state, those days are gone. Most states are like ours. A few may have different possibilities but, I've never dealt with any of them.
I was a dept purchasing agent for 15 years. Was interesting.
Distributor can offer/sell them back to individual officers on a 4473, and sell the remnant to the public at any price the market holds on a 4473.
A department can gift them to any other LE department. And the appropriate gov paperwork tracks that transfer.
Same with vehicles, radios, etc., sale or gift.
The state, has a surplus department, and anything the state has owned besides firearms can first go to a county or municipal entity then optioned at public sale to civilians.
In our state, there is no gifting of firearms to citizens.
They go to a distributor or dealer and are resold on a 4473 to legal buyers.
Other firearms in dept inventory can be bid on by dealers through the state/county/municipal surplus departments.
Once upon a time, b4 guns were bad, they WERE sold at public auction and could have been bought by the public.
In our state, those days are gone. Most states are like ours. A few may have different possibilities but, I've never dealt with any of them.
I was a dept purchasing agent for 15 years. Was interesting.
^^^ This, exactly this.
Our local police supply place does this for departments all over New England. Buy the old, sell the department the new and then sell the trade-ins at great prices.
Smoking great way to get a good deal on a gun that may have been carried a lot, but often fired little.
I bought both my duty guns over the years, but was able to do it easily because the poiice supply place is only 10 miles away. I don't know if it is as easy or painless if you are 300 miles away!
But use police trade-in guns are generally amazing deals!
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. Years ago, I bought a "police trade in" S&W 1076 from Lew Horton. Turned out to be an unfired presentation-grade FBI gun. It's still unfired! Some days guns are better than the lottery.
Here in TX if the Dept or So "sells" their weapons to a distributor/dealer, the money goes to General Fund and not the dept. If they "trade" the weapons, they get the direct benefit of trading XXX weapon A for XX of the new weapon B. Some Depts and SO's can still trade confiscated weapons if the case has been completed and there is some sign off by the court. Some will trade but only as parts, no receivers.
Some, very few now, still have transferable machine guns in inventory and want to upgrade. These can bring a premium for trades with Distributors. Many years ago I got several very nice MG's out of SO's and PD's in S TX. I got a call one day from a Detective from a Dept in the north east wanting to know how I got a Colt Thompson from his dept, that they never sold or traded their Thompsons. Now, even some transferable MG's are being destroyed because of county/city politics.
Many counties, cities, and depts now have policies that weapons are destroyed not sold. That is a waste of taxpayer dollars. I seem to recall an incident a few years ago about a crime (murder?) that was committed with a Glock with the New Orleans PD logo engraved on it. There was some outrage in NO that a PD weapon was on the street. There was something about the distributor that did the trade had specific requirements about how the weapons could be sold. I would have to research the issue but something about them being sold from the distributor to FFL's to individuals? This is several years ago so my memory on the may not be 100%.
Some, very few now, still have transferable machine guns in inventory and want to upgrade. These can bring a premium for trades with Distributors. Many years ago I got several very nice MG's out of SO's and PD's in S TX. I got a call one day from a Detective from a Dept in the north east wanting to know how I got a Colt Thompson from his dept, that they never sold or traded their Thompsons. Now, even some transferable MG's are being destroyed because of county/city politics.
Many counties, cities, and depts now have policies that weapons are destroyed not sold. That is a waste of taxpayer dollars. I seem to recall an incident a few years ago about a crime (murder?) that was committed with a Glock with the New Orleans PD logo engraved on it. There was some outrage in NO that a PD weapon was on the street. There was something about the distributor that did the trade had specific requirements about how the weapons could be sold. I would have to research the issue but something about them being sold from the distributor to FFL's to individuals? This is several years ago so my memory on the may not be 100%.
Feds have to destroy their old guns now. Retirees used to get their old sidearms. Now they either are reissued or destroyed.
GSA regulation 41 CFR 102-40.175 was created to stop surplus weapons from being sold to gun brokers and thereby on to the general public. Unfortunately, this policy was written in such a manner that it allows for NO ONE to be able to purchase these weapons. Essentially, the only thing that can happen with these weapons are for them to be completely destroyed and scrapped.
This all started under Bill Clinton.
GSA regulation 41 CFR 102-40.175 was created to stop surplus weapons from being sold to gun brokers and thereby on to the general public. Unfortunately, this policy was written in such a manner that it allows for NO ONE to be able to purchase these weapons. Essentially, the only thing that can happen with these weapons are for them to be completely destroyed and scrapped.
This all started under Bill Clinton.
Depends...kinda. If they are department purchased and issued firearms or if they are individual owned duty weapons.
In my shop, I had 1 department, who purchased and issued firearms to their officers, wanting to upgrade to another model. I purchased all of their current weapons and sold them new ones. All of their old ones went on my shelf for sale, just like any other used firearm.
I have, also, had officers come and trade in their personally purchased duty weapon in on another model. There again, their used one goes on the shelf just like any other used firearm.
The former has a lot more paperwork. But only local paperwork. No other paperwork for me, in terms of the ATF paperwork.
All the above was from state and/or local departments. Regarding the Feds...no clue.
In my shop, I had 1 department, who purchased and issued firearms to their officers, wanting to upgrade to another model. I purchased all of their current weapons and sold them new ones. All of their old ones went on my shelf for sale, just like any other used firearm.
I have, also, had officers come and trade in their personally purchased duty weapon in on another model. There again, their used one goes on the shelf just like any other used firearm.
The former has a lot more paperwork. But only local paperwork. No other paperwork for me, in terms of the ATF paperwork.
All the above was from state and/or local departments. Regarding the Feds...no clue.
Q
QuickNDirty
Guest
Good info, thanks!
The firearms our PD have are issued, and the LGS down here all tend to have a small selection of handguns with the blue band around them, so I'm pretty sure it's going to be a case similar to what @lonegunman762x51 posted.
A lot of people in my area are worried about the crime situation, and a lot that I have talked to want to carry for SD but can't afford to. I've been pestering city council and the PD to start offering training other than Citizens Police Academy and one other self-defense-ish thing, and I'm gonna also start pestering them to find a way to get firearms into the hands of people that need them.
Will my pleas fall on deaf ears? Some, yes... Others, not so much
"Hi, Mayor.
I have done your work for you. If you do this, crime will go down.
Sincerely,
"
This may be part of my address to the TX legislature on February 26th, as well. They just baked dog transfers to trainers into the TX constitution, which (re)sets the precedent that .gov property can go directly to private citizens. Maybe with the right pressure we could pull off firearm transfers, as well.
The firearms our PD have are issued, and the LGS down here all tend to have a small selection of handguns with the blue band around them, so I'm pretty sure it's going to be a case similar to what @lonegunman762x51 posted.
A lot of people in my area are worried about the crime situation, and a lot that I have talked to want to carry for SD but can't afford to. I've been pestering city council and the PD to start offering training other than Citizens Police Academy and one other self-defense-ish thing, and I'm gonna also start pestering them to find a way to get firearms into the hands of people that need them.
Will my pleas fall on deaf ears? Some, yes... Others, not so much
"Hi, Mayor.
I have done your work for you. If you do this, crime will go down.
Sincerely,
"
This may be part of my address to the TX legislature on February 26th, as well. They just baked dog transfers to trainers into the TX constitution, which (re)sets the precedent that .gov property can go directly to private citizens. Maybe with the right pressure we could pull off firearm transfers, as well.
I know in my area, the trade-in and purchases go through specific LEO vendors. Then if an officer wants to purchase his duty weapon (at the trade in price) a local shop handles the transfer. Every time I've been involved with this process, the vendors beat the LGS prices. It also helps keep evetything above board for all the bean counters. Ive bought 3 of my old duty weapons.
Then that vendor with all of these trade-ins sells them to the LGS.
Funny story. My old dept bought about 55 brand new Glocks with a Sheriff's star badge engraved on the slide (and night sights as these were duty weapons. They arrive without the night sights. Rather than swap out the sights, they sent every one back and they replaced the entire gun. A few weeks later, we got a call from a shop in Florida (IIRC) that had one of the old ones without the night sights and wanted to confirm it wasn't stolen.
Then that vendor with all of these trade-ins sells them to the LGS.
Funny story. My old dept bought about 55 brand new Glocks with a Sheriff's star badge engraved on the slide (and night sights as these were duty weapons. They arrive without the night sights. Rather than swap out the sights, they sent every one back and they replaced the entire gun. A few weeks later, we got a call from a shop in Florida (IIRC) that had one of the old ones without the night sights and wanted to confirm it wasn't stolen.
I would love to buy some trade-ins.
Most would probably have a lot of holster wear and very few rounds down the barrel and not what I would call"well taken care of."
There would however, be a few that are well shot, clean and taken care of and have nothing other than tear stains upon them.
Those should go to the Officers who carried them. They would have first dibs were I selling them and they would be more than affordable.
Most would probably have a lot of holster wear and very few rounds down the barrel and not what I would call"well taken care of."
There would however, be a few that are well shot, clean and taken care of and have nothing other than tear stains upon them.
Those should go to the Officers who carried them. They would have first dibs were I selling them and they would be more than affordable.
I have bought an old 870 Wingmaster 12 gauge that came from a New Jersey police dept. and I had a West German police issued Sig Sauer P6 in the original blue plastic box and an owners manual in German. It was carried and had some holster wear.
I have a state patrol 870 pump gun that is practically new and from the early 80's. It is straight grained walnut and steel like an old GI riot gun with a rack number tag and the patrol info professionally engraved on the receiver. $220 bucks otd.
Ages ago a bought a couple of Century Arms imported S&W model 10's from the Tokyo police for $175 each and my first Glock was a very, very early production model 19 turn in. That gun turned out to be something Glock collectors were dying for and I made far more than the $325 with three mags price during the mag ban era.
Turn-in guns are a nice niche market, a lot of guys collect them.
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