Need Some Input on 500yd Load Confirmation...

[Gustav7]

I've been doing some load development for my 6.5cm and I tried doing a different style load development for this rifle. This would be my first "larger" caliber precision rifle... as I've always shot AR's from 300-600yds. So basically new to the 6.5 game.

I did 2, 10-shot ladder tests from 39ish to 42.2gr. of H4350 at 0.3gr intervals. I shot them over a chrono at 500yds, same POA. I had two nodes, one big one at around 2620fps, and a smaller one around 2700fps...which is what I stuck with. 41.7-42.2gr gave me about 2" of vertical on test 1 and about 1/2" of vertical on test 2.

I wanted to try and confirm this again at 500yds...not only for practice, but also out of curiosity. So I loaded 3 rounds each of 41.8, 41.9, 42.0, 42.1, and 42.2. I shot them 1 charge at a time, same POA.

Here's my result. I did shoot 1-5 and 6-10 all in the same position and string. Then checked my velocities, reloaded my mag and shot the remaining 5...which could be why shots 11-14 are high...maybe my position and sight picture wasn't as good. I'm by no means a great shooter... but I'm really just trying to get an idea if my load development is good, so I can stick with a charge and practice more, etc.

Winds were at my 2 o'clock going from 5-10mph...which could account for the horizontal... as I did not try to play the wind at all.

Total vertical spread is about 4"... if you take away the 3rd test, where I got off rifle and came back, vertical spread is about 2.5ish inches.

ES across the 15 shots: 39
SD across the 15 shots: 13.9

I did load 5 shots in the middle at 42.0gr. ES was 11, SD was 7

Any input would be helpful. I'm pretty confident the right load is in here, but sometimes I think I focus on too many variables. Any seasoned guys out there that could either reinforce what I'm thinking based off my development, or point me in the right direction would be much appreciated.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I take it shots 1-2-3 are 41.8, 4-5-6 are 42.1, etc?

If so, then that has the lowest vertical spread, but 3 shots is nowhere near enough to validate. Load up 20 or so at that weight (42.4?) and try and validate it.

 

[Gustav7]

No, shots 1-5 are 41.8, 41.9, 42.0, 42.1, and 42.2, then shots 6-10 are reverse of that, then 11-15 are like shots 1-5. I did sort of a round robin with the charge weights.

Essentially what I was trying to do was confirm that 41.8-42.2 was good enough to call my node, then load at 41.9 or 42.0. I was trying to make sure that I wasn't riding on the fringe of my node, so wanted to see what my vertical spread was across the 0.5gr of spread.

After this I was going to pick the middle or so and load up 10-20. Just trying to get input on whether my head's in the right spot.

 

[spife7980]

I suggest you set the test up to make it easy to interpret. Jesus Christ

 

[spife7980]

So it’s shots
1,10,11 for 41.8
2,9,12 for 41.9
3,8,13 for 42.0
4,7,14 for 42.1
5,6,15 for 42.4
?

That’s retarded.
Make it easy on yourself. Color the like shots in the same marker at least or something.

 

[Rocketmandb]

If you can post the velocities and powder charge of each shot, that might help.

 

[Gustav7]

I suggest you set the test up to make it easy to interpret. Jesus Christ

So no suggestions other than I'm retarded? got it thanks lol....

I was more concerned with the overall vertical spread across 0.5gr. of powder charge and trying to get more experienced eyes on whether it seems to fall into what appears to be a node.

Its 500yds, so I wasn't really looking at the 3 shot groups of the different charges like I would at 100yds or something.

 

[Gustav7]

If you can post the velocities and powder charge of each shot, that might help.

I put the ES and SD up of all 15 shots but here's the velocities:

charge V1 V2 V3
41.8 2699 2693 2693
41.9 2699 2704 2710
42.0 2704 2715 2721
42.1 2726 2732 2726
42.2 2726 2732 2721

 

[spife7980]

Who knows if its in a node, there’s only half a grain of evidence to judge off of. It’s too narrow a window.
Now if you’ve based this small sample size from some other testing then sure, I’ll assume that this is what you assume is your node based on the fact that you are showing it.

It’s not a great vertical spread but if you want to do better you’ll need to do something.
What do you think we could tell you based on 15 shots worth of incoherent data is beyond me. I’d want better but it’s also settle for it if I were lazy.

So no suggestions other than I'm retarded? got it thanks lol....

I was more concerned with the overall vertical spread across 0.5gr. of powder charge and trying to get more experienced eyes on whether it seems to fall into what appears to be a node.

Its 500yds, so I wasn't really looking at the 3 shot groups of the different charges like I would at 100yds or something.

 

[Gustav7]

It’s not a great vertical spread but if you want to do better you’ll need to do something.
What do you think we could tell you based on 15 shots worth of incoherent data is beyond me. I’d want better but it’s also settle for it if I were lazy.

I mentioned this bit in the original post,
"I did 2, 10-shot ladder tests from 39ish to 42.2gr. of H4350 at 0.3gr intervals. I shot them over a chrono at 500yds, same POA. I had two nodes, one big one at around 2620fps, and a smaller one around 2700fps...which is what I stuck with. 41.7-42.2gr gave me about 2" of vertical on test 1 and about 1/2" of vertical on test 2."

I've never done load development at distance like this. 2, 10 shot ladder tests at distance showed small vertical, and consistent velocities from 41.7gr-42.2gr, twice. SO thats what I'm expanding on here.

If it isn't obvious this is my first time doing a test like this, then me stating that this is my first time should have cleared it up.

I shot the 15 shot group to get a bigger sample size of the half grain spread to see if anything obvious went high or low. Basically an expansion on my 2, 10 shot ladder tests. Was just trying to see if anyone more experienced could add some advice or point me in the right direction.

Did you have anything else to add besides retarded, incoherent, or "need to do something"? lol

 

[hafejd30]

I put the ES and SD up of all 15 shots but here's the velocities:

charge V1 V2 V3
41.8 2699 2693 2693
41.9 2699 2704 2710
42.0 2704 2715 2721
42.1 2726 2732 2726
42.2 2726 2732 2721

This hurts my head just trying to comprehend what you did. Take the 3 shots for each charge and highlight them or draw different colored lines between the like shots. So red lines connecting the shots with charge 41.8, green line connecting the 3 shots at 41.9 etc. You can screen shot this and draw the lines if needed.

A node would be like shots 7, 8, 9, 10 are shots 41.8, 42.0, 42.2, 42.4. In which case you’d test with different seating depth at 42.0 and 42.3 or something of the sort.

Nobody is picking on you here. You just didn’t give us much of a “node” to identify as your spread is only .5 grains total. And trying to interpret which shots are which make it more confusing. Connect the 3 round groups and maybe we can help you. If spife is correct than they all suck

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Find your max and back of .5 grains. Seat .01" off the lands.

That or waste all that time finding some arbitrary "node".

Now, I fucked a few times and got stuck with a low "node". I see no difference other than slower wastes a lot of time in the wind. But I didn't want to be guilty of contempt prior to investigation.

I'm back to the old run the shit out of it "node" mentioned above. Get it the fuck down range. If it is a good rifle it will shoot fine. Don't buy shit rifles. Build a good rifle like we used to buy off the shelf at a hardware store.

 

[Gustav7]

This hurts my head just trying to comprehend what you did. Take the 3 shots for each charge and highlight them or draw different colored lines between the like shots. So red lines connecting the shots with charge 41.8, green line connecting the 3 shots at 41.9 etc. You can screen shot this and draw the lines if needed.

A node would be like shots 7, 8, 9, 10 are shots 41.8, 42.0, 42.2, 42.4. In which case you’d test with different seating depth at 42.0 and 42.3 or something of the sort.

Nobody is picking on you here. You just didn’t give us much of a “node” to identify as your spread is only .5 grains total. And trying to interpret which shots are which make it more confusing. Connect the 3 round groups and maybe we can help you. If spife is correct than they all suck

its all good, I don’t feel picked on. And I appreciate actual advice.
I understand it’s messy. It made sense in my head when I did it.

I wasn’t super confident in the node I picked, so I was trying to see if I could get more data. Evidently I over thought it all a little.

Find your max and back of .5 grains. Seat .01" off the lands.

That or waste all that time finding some arbitrary "node".

Now, I fucked a few times and got stuck with a low "node". I see no difference other than slower wastes a lot of time in the wind. But I didn't want to be guilty of contempt prior to investigation.

I'm back to the old run the shit out of it "node" mentioned above. Get it the fuck down range. If it is a good rifle it will shoot fine. Don't buy shit rifles. Build a good rifle like we used to buy off the shelf at a hardware store.

that’s sound like a better plan haha. Maybe I should have just loaded at 42gr and called it a day. I get a little curious and start getting into the science too much.

 

[spife7980]

I’m sure some people will tell me I’m wrong and a larger sample and it will all equal out the same but I think the target clearly shows a preference for some spots.
I’ve been working this up this extensively just because it’s a new chambering to me and I wanted to explore it and not rush to decisions but here goes.

Initial 100 yard pressure test, found it at 44 with noticeably heavy bolt lift though not all that extreme

Do it again at 500 in a bit narrower windows to see how it shoots, clearly tightens up around 42.2 and 43.4

Checking it out in tighter higher but still wider range based on above, seems pretty forgiving

Seating depth because it’s also a new bullet and I don’t know how it jumps, it’s fine from .010 off to .030 off

10 round confirmation from .010-.025 off while hitting each 10 round string hard and letting it cool in between. So I think I’ll just shoot the hell out of this load until the steel starts to tell me otherwise in 1k rounds.

Next barrel I could narrow down a bit and save a few rounds in testing but so far I’m really liking this 22 creed chambering. But this testing lays out out right there, not really much interpreting to it.

 

[Gustav7]

I’m sure some people will tell me I’m wrong and a larger sample and it will all equal out the same but I think the target clearly shows a preference for some spots.
I’ve been working this up this extensively just because it’s a new chambering to me and I wanted to explore it and not rush to decisions but here goes.

No I think that looks good. I appreciate the input. Very organized.... so at minimum I can work on my flow and organization.

I did do a pressure test, and I did do two 10 shot ladder tests... I suppose I didn't want to put all of that on one post, but maybe should have.

And you did all this 22 Creedmoor testing at 500yds right? The 22 Creed looks awesome. Seems to be very forgiving for guys too?

 

[hafejd30]

I did about the same as spife and the pics below are 5 rounds with 260 at 600 yards (one with bic lighter) and 5 rounds with my 284 at 500 yards as the result.

 

[spife7980]

No I think that looks good. I appreciate the input. Very organized.... so at minimum I can work on my flow and organization.

I did do a pressure test, and I did do two 10 shot ladder tests... I suppose I didn't want to put all of that on one post, but maybe should have.

And you did all this 22 Creedmoor testing at 500yds right? The 22 Creed looks awesome. Seems to be very forgiving for guys too?

Other than the initial 100 yard, yes. 500 yards, those are 3” stickers.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

So, Spice slight heavy bolt lift at 44 and about a half grain less and it is shooting fine with a safe max velocity.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

BTW, I'm still waiting for a node test where most bullets are actually hitting the intended target. It's okay to adjust after the first group to make an attempt . But that would ruin the fun, "look all my bullets for every load are in the undersized Orange sticker." What to do? What to do?

 

[Deleted member 113831]

I have found that once the max pressure limit is discovered, the optimal charge weight most often falls around 2% - 1.5% off max.

So for @spife7980 gun, my prediction would have been 44 grains x .98 - .985 = 43.1 - 43.3 grains.

 

[Gustav7]

BTW, I'm still waiting for a node test where most bullets are actually hitting the intended target. It's okay to adjust after the first group to make an attempt . But that would ruin the fun, "look all my bullets for every load are in the undersized Orange sticker." What to do? What to do?

hahaha

"what charge did you go with?"

"all of them"...

 

[Gustav7]

I did about the same as spife and the pics below are 5 rounds with 260 at 600 yards (one with bic lighter) and 5 rounds with my 284 at 500 yards as the result.
View attachment 7311695View attachment 7311696

Good shooting for sure... I'll keep practicing