True to size Allen Key sets.. do they exist?

#51
You guys are really stuck in the mud.
There are way better tools out there and because you have not seen them they get no love from you.
Bondhus are a bare bones minimum for quality.
These are an order of magnitude better.
www.stahlwille.de

TCS 10765/10768/12507/19

Offset screwdrivers i.TCS inlay
www.stahlwille.de www.stahlwille.de
www.wihatools.com

8 Piece SoftGrip Dual Drive Metric T-Handle Set

Wiha Soft Grip Dual Drive Ball End Hex T-Handle Metric Chrome Finish 8 Piece Set in Metal Stand
www.wihatools.com www.wihatools.com
www.knipex.com

Screwdrivers for hexagon socket screws

Ergonomisch optimierter 2-Komponenten-Griff für ermüdungsarme und handschonende Kraftübertragung, Rollhemmende Griffform, Chrom-Vanadin-Molybdän-Stahl
www.knipex.com www.knipex.com

1/4" Hex Allen Bit Sockets

Tools
asttool.com

And it goes on and on....there are tools, then there are quality tools.
 
#52
powerspc said:
++1 for Chapman, I don't think they make the traditional "L" shaped keys, but they make the bits, etc. Everything they make is beautifully done and everything they make is made here in the U.S.
Click to expand...
For a range kit, I don’t Chapman can be beat. They fit perfect to size. I’m glad someone other than me has used them. You can also use them with a torque limiting driver that takes 1/4” bits.
 
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#54
KC Tool offers most of the better available tools. I have long purchased from them.

KC Tool

Find quality hand tools such as screwdrivers, pliers and insulated tools. Order catalogs and read customer reviews and our tool reviews and comparisons.
www.kctool.com www.kctool.com
 
#56
We run Bondhus at work they are affordable quality and are lifetime gairanteed. you break it they send you a new one. they also are the U.S. distributor for Felo screwdrivers very nice and also free lifetime replacement. we use them daily and a couple times a year get them replaced such as when we get carried away and blow the ball end off the Allen wrenches. simple process
 
#58
greg1147 said:
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
Click to expand...

Agreed here... Since I started ordering good screws/fasteners from here I have had way less of an issue. I just bought some 7/16" long 6-32 alloy screws for my RMR on my CZ. I bought a 5/64" hex bit from them too hoping they would be of quality. Received a Wiha bit that fits almost perfectly with their screws.

I had bought some RMR screws from an actual gun place when I first put it on and stripped the end of a shitty allen key. The allen hole portion on the screw was almost tapered, so only like the very tip of the key made any contact. The screws from McMaster-Carr are just such better quality and paired with a good bit makes it so much easier.

Worth the extra money, plus they're in Ohio, so I always get everything next day or 2 days later.
 
#59
Bondhus; for Hex and Torx. About all I can get in serious tools around here.

Speaking of which; I have been steadily swapping out hex for Torx in many applications. I don't think too many makers of soft torx bolts are out there and it seems to be pretty hard to chew out a GOOD Torx socket with a GOOD CORRECT SIZE Torx key or driver-bit in a torque wrench.

One such application is receiver front and rear bolts. .Establish the "optimum" torque setting and note it in the 'log book". If you have to do a pull-down for some reason, it is a simple job to put the screws back to the previous torque as a starting point.
 
#60
I never use L keys, have all drivers, for almost everything. Can use my good handles, and add Torx as needed. Variety of bits, most of the brands above including McMaster without labels which ARE name brands you just don't always know which one.

Also, I long ago gave up trying to figure out which size to use, and just use whichever (metric or SAE) fits best to avoid damaging the key or screw. Rarely but occasionally I'll use Torx instead!

Fasteners are part of the global supply chain, and often are quite loose and random. Every very good US made products often come with not-top-tier YFS fasteners. I have had to use two different drivers for what should be the same screw! For stuff I really care about and expect to remove or adjust often, I'll also get some replacement screws from McMaster. Whatever the source (many are imported because what can you do?) they are to spec.
 
#64
I have a set of Bondhus ball end drivers and a set of Wiha ball end drivers. The Bonhus are cheap and junky. Being made to size is the lowest hanging fruit. The Wiha are more durable without being torsion springs whereas about half the Bondhus ball ends are broken off.
 
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#68
Cascade Hemi said:
I have a set of Bondhus ball end drivers and a set of Wiha ball end drivers. The Bonhus are cheap and junky. Being made to size is the lowest hanging fruit. The Wiha are more durable without being torsion springs whereas about half the Bondhus ball ends are broken off.
Click to expand...

Ball end drivers are not designed for extreme torque. They're designed to run stuff up quick, where you have limited access, and then switch to a L-key that's straight for final torque.


I've been very surprised on the bondhus straight t-handles. They will twist and then snap back without shattering. I'm not sure why but every single bow I work on has tiny fasteners torqued to stupid levels and I haven't rounded or broken a key or bolt yet.

It's also nice to torque with the t-handles. When the wrench starts to twist you're plenty tight. Lots of stuff gets cranked way past where it should be by guys with L-key using the long end for leverage.

Lots of chinesium fasteners out there. I bought a large assortment of sizes at Fastenal in yfs 12.9 and replace lots of crap bolts with them.
 
#69
TxWelder35 said:
Is a $100 ratchet that can be passed down to your kids really that absurd?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Here's one, 1956 - long before I was born. I got it when my grandfather passed. It's my favorite tool in the box.

IMG_4889.jpg
 
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#70
chevy_man said:
Ball end drivers are not designed for extreme torque. They're designed to run stuff up quick, where you have limited access, and then switch to a L-key that's straight for final torque.


I've been very surprised on the bondhus straight t-handles. They will twist and then snap back without shattering. I'm not sure why but every single bow I work on has tiny fasteners torqued to stupid levels and I haven't rounded or broken a key or bolt yet.

It's also nice to torque with the t-handles. When the wrench starts to twist you're plenty tight. Lots of stuff gets cranked way past where it should be by guys with L-key using the long end for leverage.

Lots of chinesium fasteners out there. I bought a large assortment of sizes at Fastenal in yfs 12.9 and replace lots of crap bolts with them.
Click to expand...

I have T handles too. The point is that Bondhus isn't very durable compared to Wiha. Wiha makes T handles also, and I'd take them over Bondhus all day. Bondhus is effectively a low cost Amazon brand which is laughable if Snapon is using them as a supplier.
 
#72
Cascade Hemi said:
Bondhus is effectively a low cost Amazon brand which is laughable if Snapon is using them as a supplier.
Click to expand...

Most brands have different levels of quality. Just because their common brand is low-cost it doesn't mean they can't produce a higher quality one.

I prefer to have a larger/ergonmic T handle (Felo) that takes 1/4" hex bits, then I can get whatever bits I need.
 
#73
Cascade Hemi said:
I have T handles too. The point is that Bondhus isn't very durable compared to Wiha. Wiha makes T handles also, and I'd take them over Bondhus all day. Bondhus is effectively a low cost Amazon brand which is laughable if Snapon is using them as a supplier.
Click to expand...

Except they're not.

They're actually good and made in the US.

I wonder if they have some knock-offs out there? The ones I have bought at tool stores have been solid for years.
 
#75
I've had pretty good results with Gearwrench. Lot of times Tractor Supply will run them on sale too. They have a lot of different sets too.

All Tools

Shop the GEARWRENCH tool catalog which features over 3,800 wrenches, ratchets, sockets, tool storage, auto specialty and other mechanics tools.
www.gearwrench.com www.gearwrench.com
 
#77
#78
High quality screwdriver bits from Mountz, Borka and most of the other brands sold worlwide are made in Taiwan and just branded as requested by the companies which order these bits. A lot of Wiha 1" long bits are now made in Vietnam. The only question is who specifically makes the bits. Taiwan has 5-6 serious bits manufacturers. I was able to test bits from these guys to find out some details. Mountz and Borka branded bits are made by Compass:

Compass Corp.,洲晟

Compass possesses 95% in-house manufacturing processes including material cutting, milling, drilling, punching, forging, heat treatment, and quality control. This is to insure that our product quality surpasses all international standards.
www.compass.com.tw www.compass.com.tw

which is a really professional outfit, although Compass is now at nearly 100% capacity and became too expensive to deal with...

Any U.S. made bits are no "better" than, say, Compass made bits, but obviosly, a lot more expensive. Small size bits will always break if overtorqued, regardless of their origin, it all comes to cross section of the bit tip. Which is the reason people need to use torque tools to apply specified torque.
 
Last edited:
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#79
kortik said:
High quality screwdriver bits from Mountz, Borka and most of the other brands sold worlwide are made in Taiwan and just branded as requested by the companies which order these bits. A lot of Wiha 1" long bits are now made in Vietnam. The only question is who specifically makes the bits. Taiwan has 5-6 serious bits manufacturers. I was able to test bits from these guys. Mountz and Borka branded bits are made by Compass:

Compass Corp.,洲晟

Compass possesses 95% in-house manufacturing processes including material cutting, milling, drilling, punching, forging, heat treatment, and quality control. This is to insure that our product quality surpasses all international standards.
www.compass.com.tw www.compass.com.tw

which is a really professional outfit, although Compass is now at nearly 100% capacity and became too expensive to deal with...

Any U.S. made bits are no "better" than, say, Compass made bits, but obviosly, a lot more expensive. Small size bits will always break if overtorqued, regardless of their origin, it all comes to cross section of the bit tip. Which is the reason people need to use torque tools to apply specified torque.
Click to expand...
I’m sure each manufacturer uses different materials, heat treat, quality control, etc. to
Say everything made in Asia is going to be the same quality as everything else is false.
 
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#82
Cascade Hemi said:
The same is true for US made tools.
Click to expand...
While I don’t agree with your assment of bondhus tools, I can agree with your statement here.

Just because something is made in the US doesn’t mean it’s better than x y or z. Manufactures need to still earn that badge. That said, a lot of the US made stuff is still really good. Williams, SK, Proto, Matco, most snapon, wright tools, bondhus etc. Even craftsman still has a industrial line made still in the US.


However other companies like Milwaukee source their tools from overseas. Honestly if one only bought Milwaukee tools, including handtools, or mechanics tools, they’d be pretty well off…I don’t know if it’s their QC process or they monopoly certain manufactures but things with their name on it seems to just work in most cases…
 
#83
Matches Malone said:
While I don’t agree with your assment of bondhus tools, I can agree with your statement here.

Just because something is made in the US doesn’t mean it’s better than x y or z. Manufactures need to still earn that badge. That said, a lot of the US made stuff is still really good. Williams, SK, Proto, Matco, most snapon, wright tools, bondhus etc. Even craftsman still has a industrial line made still in the US.


However other companies like Milwaukee source their tools from overseas. Honestly if one only bought Milwaukee tools, including handtools, or mechanics tools, they’d be pretty well off…I don’t know if it’s their QC process or they monopoly certain manufactures but things with their name on it seems to just work in most cases…
Click to expand...

This is a strange conversation. I read the posts and then look down at the tools being discussed that directly contradict what is being said. Bondhus is cheap junk and the nation of origin is entirely irrelevant. I have ratchets made in Taiwan that hold their own against nearly any American made ratchet and certainly anything in their price category. I can't help but wonder what experience some of the people posting in this thread have. Buy whatever makes you happy though, I don't think there is anything else I can add.
balldriver.jpg
 
#84
I just picked up a Wiha screwdriver bit assortment from Haus of Tools and it says this on the back:

IMG_7494.jpg
IMG_7495.jpg


That all being said, they're some of the nicest bits I've handled. Magnet in the handle and bit holder is very strong. All the bits have very clean edges, and the 5/64" allen I tried on my McMaster Carr alloy 6-32 screws is super tight and clean.

I have not tried all the bits yet, and I'm by no means anything more than a hobbyist with tools, but they're noticeably nicer than anything else I've owned. I was going to get Bondhus for the US made, but they don't make any decent bit set like this one.

I'm going to try more of the bits out tomorrow, but from the looks of it, I'll probably keep this one as my nice set.

Now which US made drill bit set to go with ....... (and sharpener lol)
 
#85
Hanson cobalt drill bits, none better.
They make the Snap-on branded ones.
Drill doctor is the better reasonably priced sharpener, get the 750x model.
It's a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of it (and the way to undercut or backcut) you will be floored at the results and how quick it is.
 
#86
n2ishun said:
Hanson cobalt drill bits, none better.
They make the Snap-on branded ones.
Drill doctor is the better reasonably priced sharpener, get the 750x model.
It's a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of it (and the way to undercut or backcut) you will be floored at the results and how quick it is.
Click to expand...

You mean like the high end Irwin brand at Lowes? The M42 cobalts are listed as Hanson made, but Irwin brand. I do a decent bit of hand drilling too, is M42 too brittle for that?

I was looking at Norseman, Drill America, or McMaster Carr(but have no idea who makes those), plus the Drill Doctor sharpener.
 
#87
I know this is going to sound unbelievable but I have a set of Tekton hex wrenches (in both American and Foreign) and they surprised me. On hex bolts that are probably tolerenced properly (like hex bolts on a Mercedes car or a high-end guitar and all of my rings and scopes, etc.) they haven't shown any "looseness" yet. Sometimes I have to give it a little encouragement to get into the hole (I'm used to it... I have Viagra, I'm fine... I'll be okay).
 
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#88
Gustav7 said:
You mean like the high end Irwin brand at Lowes? The M42 cobalts are listed as Hanson made, but Irwin brand. I do a decent bit of hand drilling too, is M42 too brittle for that?
Click to expand...
I use M42 only as needed and sometimes that's a troublesome or broken thing so with a hand drill. They are harder so it seems likely, but I haven't broken one yet.

Aside from one-or-two pickups from McMaster, I like these for my Cobalt drill sets:
drill-hog.myshopify.com

Cobalt M42 Drill Bit Sets

Drill Hog® Lifetime Warranty Drill Bits
drill-hog.myshopify.com drill-hog.myshopify.com
They claim they make them, in the US, but it's not like I have seen the factory or anything.
 
#89
Gustav7 said:
You mean like the high end Irwin brand at Lowes? The M42 cobalts are listed as Hanson made, but Irwin brand. I do a decent bit of hand drilling too, is M42 too brittle for that?

I was looking at Norseman, Drill America, or McMaster Carr(but have no idea who makes those), plus the Drill Doctor sharpener.
Click to expand...

Cobalt has its place.

Best bet is high speed tool steel for general work. Much easier to sharpen, less breakage especially with smaller sizes.
Cobalt is what I go to only when I need to drill something hard. AR plate, broken grade 8 bolts, the last drill bit, broken taps, etc.


99% of drill life is cutting with consistent pressure, not over-speeding the bit, and lube. Boelube makes some awesome cutting paste that is safe for your hands, and stays where you need it. Oils have their place, but they're much better for flood cooling machines. Hand drilling tosses oil all over making everything a mess, so most tend to overheat their bits rather than deal with the mess.

I have a drill doctor. Can't remember the last time I used it. I sharpen by hand with a diamond file. Much easier and more convenient for me. I don't waste my time on the little bits though, 1/16”-1/4” I just buy cheap Milwaukee hss and cobalt and chuck them when they dull or break. They don't fit in the drill doctor correctly without screwing around forever, and are hard to hold by hand. Time is money, gotta decide where to spend each.
 
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#90
chevy_man said:
Cobalt has its place.

Best bet is high speed tool steel for general work. Much easier to sharpen, less breakage especially with smaller sizes.
Cobalt is what I go to only when I need to drill something hard. AR plate, broken grade 8 bolts, the last drill bit, broken taps, etc.


99% of drill life is cutting with consistent pressure, not over-speeding the bit, and lube. Boelube makes some awesome cutting paste that is safe for your hands, and stays where you need it. Oils have their place, but they're much better for flood cooling machines. Hand drilling tosses oil all over making everything a mess, so most tend to overheat their bits rather than deal with the mess.

I have a drill doctor. Can't remember the last time I used it. I sharpen by hand with a diamond file. Much easier and more convenient for me. I don't waste my time on the little bits though, 1/16”-1/4” I just buy cheap Milwaukee hss and cobalt and chuck them when they dull or break. They don't fit in the drill doctor correctly without screwing around forever, and are hard to hold by hand. Time is money, gotta decide where to spend each.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the seasoned input. That Boelube aint cheap lol

I've heard most guys just replace the small bits when they break with cheaper stuff.

I finally got my drill press table made up for my old Walker-Turner 20" drill press, so 90% of what I drill will be on that, keeping pressure and speed more consistent.
 
#91
Myself, I use actual drilling coolant/oil.
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
And these are Hanson bits
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com

I don't know why anyone would suggest HSS drill bits for anything but wood.
 
#92
I also just run an old Goldenrod can of plain old soluble oil. I have NO idea which brand as it came out of the 55gal drum in a machining center years ago but in a one man shop, the concentrate in an old water bottle lasts years and years.

It is soluble so even if some splatters, ignore it or wipe it off. As long as you don't set up a constant jet like in a machine tool center, it's not a big deal.
 
#93
Gustav7 said:
Appreciate the seasoned input. That Boelube aint cheap lol

I've heard most guys just replace the small bits when they break with cheaper stuff.

I finally got my drill press table made up for my old Walker-Turner 20" drill press, so 90% of what I drill will be on that, keeping pressure and speed more consistent.
Click to expand...

Boelube looks expensive. I've been using the same can in my shop for 5 years, and the one in the service truck lasts 3-4 years.


n2ishun said:
Myself, I use actual drilling coolant/oil.
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
And these are Hanson bits
www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com

I don't know why anyone would suggest HSS drill bits for anything but wood.
Click to expand...

HSS work just fine, and are more forgiving in a hand drill.

Let your buddy break a cobalt off and try and drill it out...
 
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#94
The Swiss rainbow set is legit. We used to use them on Trumpf laser heads where everything was "German precise." In the real world, my money is on the Bondus. There's also this little guy:
IMG_0663.JPG

I have used these things on all kinds of shit and never had a problem with fitment or the mechanism slipping. Worth a look.
 
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