Wind meters that allow changing DoF remotely

carbonbased · Sep 22, 2022

I'm on a journey on reading the wind, and @Jack Master 's wind rose + @lowlight 's Gun MPH has been a revelation to me (I hope I attributed those ideas correctly). I want to explore something else as well.

I am going to buy a wind meter so I can train myself to guess the wind speed. I was thinking it would also be educational to pair the meter with a ballistic app or LRF bino.

But what I am struggling to figure out is what wind meter (in the vane) + app/LRF bino will allow me to change the DoF from the shooting position. As in, not getting up to recalibrate the wind meter towards a new target.

I found an older vid here from a UK chap that showed how the cheaper Weatherflow meter allows for this with Strelok, whereas the Kestrel (at the time) could not and required one to get up and go to the meter to change DoF. Perhaps this has changed.

I am also quite unclear if any of the new LRF binos allow this when paired with a wind meter in a vane. And then we have Garmin watch-things, Kestrel HUD's, and heaven knows what else. (now I sound like my grandma)

Background: I shoot pdogs, and often swiveling 120º or more, so changing the DoF quickly and easily is important. Updated ideal scenario:

Wind meter is on a tripod behind me somewhere and I’m sitting on a swivel table
I find the target with LRF binos and range it
Some sort of display tells me the elevation and wind hold for that DoF. ex. on a phone or in the LRF bino’s readout
I shoot
I rotate my swivel bench 100° do the same dance without getting up to recalibrate anything (like DoF)

List below will be updated as people contribute info to this thread (updated June 13, '23)
====================================
The following combos allow remote changing of DoF from the shooting position (wind meter somewhere else):

Strelok + Weatherflow (not sure which models of WF work): manual process-if target has a new DoF/range one must remote calibrate each time in Strelok
Strelok + a Calypso ultrasonic wind meter: (note: as the Strelok dev @Igor Borisov(Strelok Pro) mentions below, updates to this process are slated to occur…or perhaps have already occurred) manual process-if target has a new DoF/range one must remote calibrate each time in Strelok
Kestrel w/Link + HUD + Terrapin X (link): unsure of exact steps, but appears to show solution on HUD and not in the Terrapin.
~~Sig 10k~~ doesn’t work this way, won’t transmit different DoF with windmeter
- Note that bigjimfish says that the Sig10k's app isn't able to be used without being connected to the binos. This is stupid.
Vortex Fury HD 5000 AB + Kestrel 5700 lineup with Link: not sure of the exact sequence…can't find detailed info. However, the binos will show the solution inside the binos.
- I do not know if their app is or isn't able to be used when not connected to the binos.
Leica Geovid Pros, 3200.com & some of their monoculars + Kestrel 5700 lineup with Link: not sure of the exact sequence…can't find detailed info. However, the binos will show the solution inside the binos.
- bigjimfish says that the Geovid Pro's app IS able to be used without being connected to the binos.
Swarovski ?
Revic ?

Kestrel does have a super-hard to find list that mentions DoF-enabled LRF plus a bunch of other specs: https://kestrelballistics.com/compare-laser-range-finders

@reubenski @BigJimFish

6.5SH · Sep 22, 2022

With Strelok the Calypso wind meters allow using the phone's compass to set target azimuth. A Kestrel with Strelok requires aiming the Kestrel at the target then pressing the target direction button in Strelok.

One thing to be aware of, not every cellphone or tablet has a built in compass. Accuracy can suffer if it is using GPS assist for direction as it requires some movement to tell where it's pointing. So read up on the specs of your device before committing to anything.

carbonbased · Sep 22, 2022

6.5SH said:
With Strelok the Calypso wind meters allow using the phone's compass to set target azimuth. A Kestrel with Strelok requires aiming the Kestrel at the target then pressing the target direction button in Strelok.

One thing to be aware of, not every cellphone or tablet has a built in compass. Accuracy can suffer if it is using GPS assist for direction as it requires some movement to tell where it's pointing. So read up on the specs of your device before committing to anything.

Appreciate the info. I have an iPhone 13 Pro Max, so compass stuff is gtg, I believe. I heard of those calypso meters from a post of yours, somewhere. They seem cool especially in that they don't need to be perfectly level. Plus you don't need to pack a comparatively big vane (that might break). The bigger one runs off of solar which is nice, but maybe the little guy is fine.

6.5SH · Sep 22, 2022

The battery life on the mini seems to be really good so far. I've not had to do it yet, but I'd imagine trying to charge in the field would be kind of a pain as it is Qi induction charging, so 3-4 hours for max charge.

carbonbased · Sep 23, 2022

Well, responses have been overwhelming! Lol

Maybe that’s what I get for not posting this in the Armory forum.

Anyway, here is an extension of Strelok and an Apple Watch, where one can see the Strelok range card on the watch. I dunno, a little small and I’m not sure it updates with the wind changes. But neat. He’s an airgunner. Go to about 10:25 on the vid:

carbonbased · Sep 25, 2022

I imagine that the Sig 10K plus it's included Weatherflow meter also do this, right? And probably the Leica Geovid Pro 32 + a compatible wind meter?

Can't imagine either of those two expensive combos needing a bloke to recalibrate the wind meter for each target. Right guys? Help me out here.

6.5SH · Sep 25, 2022

carbonbased said:
I imagine that the Sig 10K plus it's included Weatherflow meter also do this, right? And probably the Leica Geovid Pro 32 + a compatible wind meter?

Can't imagine either of those two expensive combos needing a bloke to recalibrate the wind meter for each target. Right guys? Help me out here.

I believe @BigJimFish has had some hands on with both and may have answers.

carbonbased · Oct 22, 2022

@BigJimFish sorry to bother you again. Any info on the sig 10k or Leica being able to auto-recalibrate the wind meter DoF for each target?

carbonbased · Oct 22, 2022

A closer reading of @BigJimFish ‘s article on the sig 10k seems to indicate that it and the weatherflow used together will NOT work in the manner in which I want, i.e. remote updating of DoF (auto or manual).

Here’s the relevant paragraph, with my emphasis:

Activating the WINDmeter while ranging by pressing its single button will bring up a small wind icon on the ranging screen and replace the wind magnitude in the calculation with the magnitude read by the meter. However, it will not replace the wind direction. The WeatherFlow meter does not know what way you are orienting it, so you must orient it correctly if you want the calculations to be correct. You must orient it in the direction the wind is blowing and also in the direction you have selected and input into the binoculars. I will also mention here that the communication range of the WINDmeter is limited to a couple meters and it can be a bit spotty at maintaining those communication as well. I tested its wind metering only in so far as I verified that the calculations were changing. I did not test the accuracy if its readings. It is notable that the binoculars do not actually give you the wind speed value they are reading, but rather directly change the amount of wind drift in your ballistic solution. I didn’t like this limitation. I would have liked to be given a live feed of the current wind speed reading, as it changes all the time, and I would like to know the relative range of speeds it is moving through.

His article on the Leica Geovid Pros has no info on this sort of function.

carbonbased · Oct 23, 2022

Jackpot! Just found a stand-alone list of products that will transmit DoF: https://kestrelballistics.com/compare-laser-range-finders

Doesn’t include the very latest Sig 10k and Leica Geovid Pros, but I’d bet the Leica’s continue their predecessors’ DoF specs.

BigJimFish · Oct 24, 2022

carbonbased said:
Jackpot! Just found a stand-alone list of products that will transmit DoF: https://kestrelballistics.com/compare-laser-range-finders

Doesn’t include the very latest Sig 10k and Leica Geovid Pros, but I’d bet the Leica’s continue their predecessors’ DoF specs.

Your question on wind meter read wind integrated with DoF is an interesting one. When looking at the Leica Pro's and Sig 10k's I did not examine them in external ballistics mode though both have a mode for this in order to pair with Kestrel's and utilize its calculator. I am not sure if they will auto update the wind holds with the speed and direction taken by the Kestrel and integrated with the DOF taken from the binos at this time. These sensors all exist so it would be possible if the software hookup is present.

In a few weeks I'll be visiting to the nVisti facility here in Ohio. These are the guys that do the device software for Applied Ballistics integrated products including Leica, Sig, and Kestrel. I'll ask them what currently works and what is planned in the future in this regard as both these binos have significant capabilities for future software updates built and and obviously smartphone based programs can easily be updated as well.

As for the 10k's specificly with their included weather meter. That meter does not have an integrated compass, so, it will never know which way it is pointed without being told and therefore cannot integrate automatically wind direction. I suppose it could prompt you to align your phone with the wind and utilize it's compass in the Sig BDX software. That would allow the full automated DoF functionality you seek with just the included hardware. Currently the software does not have this function though.

Anyhow, I'll ask the nVisti folks in a few weeks about the current state of these automated wind meter features in external ballistic modes and if there are future expansions of software functions planned.

carbonbased · Oct 24, 2022

BigJimFish said:
Your question on wind meter read wind integrated with DoF is an interesting one. When looking at the Leica Pro's and Sig 10k's I did not examine them in external ballistics mode though both have a mode for this in order to pair with Kestrel's and utilize its calculator. I am not sure if they will auto update the wind holds with the speed and direction taken by the Kestrel and integrated with the DOF taken from the binos at this time. These sensors all exist so it would be possible if the software hookup is present.

In a few weeks I'll be visiting to the nVisti facility here in Ohio. These are the guys that do the device software for Applied Ballistics integrated products including Leica, Sig, and Kestrel. I'll ask them what currently works and what is planned in the future in this regard as both these binos have significant capabilities for future software updates built and and obviously smartphone based programs can easily be updated as well.

As for the 10k's specificly with their included weather meter. That meter does not have an integrated compass, so, it will never know which way it is pointed without being told and therefore cannot integrate automatically wind direction. I suppose it could prompt you to align your phone with the wind and utilize it's compass in the Sig BDX software. That would allow the full automated DoF functionality you seek with just the included hardware. Currently the software does not have this function though.

Anyhow, I'll ask the nVisti folks in a few weeks about the current state of these automated wind meter features in external ballistic modes and if there are future expansions of software functions planned.

Sounds good. As of today it looks like the only binos that do the DoF dance are the Vortex Fury AB, Leica 3200.com, and probably the Leica Geovid Pros.

And the devil is in the details…how does the the solution get displayed (in the binos? Or App only? Etc) and what, if any, additional button presses are needed when switching targets and so on.

carbonbased · Dec 18, 2022

BigJimFish said:
Anyhow, I'll ask the nVisti folks in a few weeks about the current state of these automated wind meter features in external ballistic modes and if there are future expansions of software functions planned.

Hi Jim, did you happen to ever connect with nVisti?

hondo1312 · Dec 18, 2022

carbonbased said:
Sounds good. As of today it looks like the only binos that do the DoF dance are the Vortex Fury AB, Leica 3200.com, and probably the Leica Geovid Pros.

And the devil is in the details…how does the the solution get displayed (in the binos? Or App only? Etc) and what, if any, additional button presses are needed when switching targets and so on.

I have the Leica 3200.com and kestrel 5700 with AB. Firing solution will be displayed on the Kestrel AND on the display in the bino. If you’re shooting multiple targets, you will need to switch the target on the kestrel with the arrow button.

Here is my typical use at NRL hunter match:
get wind speed and direction prior to starting stage
start with kestrel powered up and screen on target 1
press ranging button on binos to start pairing
find all the targets
go back to target 1 and range
confirm yardage and firing solution received by kestrel
use right arrow on kestrel to get to target 2
range target 2
confirm yardage and firing solution received by kestrel
repeat for remainder of targets

I don’t use the HUD in the binos. I would disable it if I knew how.

The pairing works excellent most of the time. The internal compass works excellent most of the time. It seems that a low battery will impair both functions.

BigJimFish · Dec 24, 2022

carbonbased said:
Hi Jim, did you happen to ever connect with nVisti?

Yes, I met with them Tuesday. A write up will be coming soon. Will include some information on how wind meter integration works as well as some future stuff on wind meter integration with the AB application. I will also go into some detail on the Leica .com models not updated software and how it works as that update is now out. I'll also talk some about lidar wind technologies.

Hondo1312's description of the work flow for wind in external ballistics mode is also how they described it to me. This external ballistic mode kestrel wind can be done with the Sig units as well. The wind meter included with the 10k's does not have a direction sensor in it though and therefore cannot be used in this way.

carbonbased · Dec 24, 2022

BigJimFish said:
Yes, I met with them Tuesday. A write up will be coming soon. Will include some information on how wind meter integration works as well as some future stuff on wind meter integration with the AB application. I will also go into some detail on the Leica .com models not updated software and how it works as that update is now out. I'll also talk some about lidar wind technologies.

Hondo1312's description of the work flow for wind in external ballistics mode is also how they described it to me. This external ballistic mode kestrel wind can be done with the Sig units as well. The wind meter included with the 10k's does not have a direction sensor in it though and therefore cannot be used in this way.

Thanks for the reply! It'll be interesting to hear your info. Merry Christmas!

Igor Borisov(Strelok Pro) · Feb 20, 2023

carbonbased said:
List below will be updated as people contribute info to this thread (updated Dec 18, '22)
====================================
The following combos allow remote changing of DoF from the shooting position (wind meter somewhere else):

Strelok + Weatherflow (not sure which models of WF work): manual process-if target has a new DoF/range one must remote calibrate each time in Strelok

Strelok + a Calypso ultrasonic wind meter: manual process-if target has a new DoF/range one must remote calibrate each time in Strelok

In next version will be big renovation of Calypso interface in Strelok pro. User can set Calypso azimuth once and change direction of fire (DoF) by changing target azimuth. With phone compass. No more need to rotate Calypso device when changing direction of fire

carbonbased · Feb 20, 2023

Igor Borisov(Strelok Pro) said:
In next version will be big renovation of Calypso interface in Strelok pro. User can set Calypso azimuth once and change direction of fire (DoF) by changing target azimuth. With phone compass. No more need to rotate Calypso device when changing direction of fire

Oohhh! Ok, so given my ideal workflow below (from first post), how do you envision Strelok+Calypso working, step by step?

carbonbased said:
Wind meter is on a tripod behind me somewhere and I’m sitting on a swivel table

I find the target with LRF binos and range it

Some sort of display tells me the elevation and wind hold for that DoF. ex. on a phone or in the LRF bino’s readout

I shoot

I rotate my swivel bench 100° do the same dance without getting up to recalibrate anything (like DoF)

With the new update you’re talking about, I imagine there’s still a step “2a” where I must input the target range into Strelok?

Igor Borisov(Strelok Pro) · Feb 20, 2023

carbonbased said:
Oohhh! Ok, so given my ideal workflow below (from first post), how do you envision Strelok+Calypso working, step by step?

With the new update you’re talking about, I imagine there’s still a step “2a” where I must input the target range into Strelok?

Set Ultrasonic Wind meter on a tripod and orient it to the first target
Aim your phone to the same direction as Ultrasonic and tap 'Set Ultrasonic azimuth' button
Find the target with LRF and range it
Enter distance to the target and slope angle to the program
Aim your phone to the target and tap 'Set Target azimuth' button
Read calculated elevation and wind hold for this target on the phone screen
Shoot
Rotate swivel bench to the next target and repeat from item 3

carbonbased · Feb 20, 2023

Igor Borisov(Strelok Pro) said:
Set Ultrasonic Wind meter on a tripod and orient it to the first target

Aim your phone to the same direction as Ultrasonic and tap 'Set Ultrasonic azimuth' button

Find the target with LRF and range it

Enter distance to the target and slope angle to the program

Aim your phone to the target and tap 'Set Target azimuth' button

Read calculated elevation and wind hold for this target on the phone screen

Shoot

Rotate swivel bench to the next target and repeat from item 3

Cool! It’s an improvement!

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