For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

Guys..... This has been beaten to death but you have to watch how your using abrasive cleaners! Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12 times from what the shooter told us.

What I did get was the shooter was using ThorroClean. This is a cleaner made and mixed with Iosso Bore Paste! So sum it up how ever you want.... it's an abrasive cleaner. The lands and bore are completely damaged. The lands are all rounded over, damage to the muzzles crown as well as polished and rounded over. In the first 2" of the barrel from the chamber a brush with the cleaner was run either by hand or with a drill on it. You can see the drag marks going over the tops of the lands and down in the grooves. This isn't from when the barrel got made. My guess is the shooter was worried about the carbon ring build up in the throat. Also notice the gouges running down the bore on tops of the lands and grooves.

Watch what your doing please.

The last picture for a reference for comparison is also a 223 Remington barrel. This was a accuracy test barrel I got back from the bullet maker. It quite shooting at 14,000 rounds! Up to that point it held .5moa or better at 200 yards. This is a saami spec. 6 groove barrel (not 5R rifling). Only one guy in the ballistic lab is allowed to clean the barrel with JB bore compound when they start getting a carbon ring built up. They only use the JB when the need is felt to use it. For an approximate number of cleanings on the accuracy test barrel it got cleaned 140 to 200 times.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

here is the accuracy test barrel with 14k on it....

OREGUN · Aug 8, 2023

I seem to recall a website of a highly regarded barrel maker which clearly recommends only using Hoppes and patches. No brushes, no drill, no polishing compound, etc. Crazy thing, Hoppes #9 on a patch has worked great for me for many years and many tens of thousands of rounds down the bore of those fine barrels. Weird.

Secant · Aug 8, 2023

kindabitey · Aug 8, 2023

I'm just waiting for someone to come along and tell @Frank Green he's wrong

(he's not btw)

TicTacTex · Aug 8, 2023

kindabitey said:
I'm just waiting for someone to come along and tell @Frank Green he's wrong (he's not btw)

I give it 24 hours. And I’m being generous.

DocRDS · Aug 8, 2023

Frank is wrong. I took a high school science class and steel is harder than bronze, copper, lead and carbon.

Also my buddy Bubba who hunts regularly swears by DocRDS super scraper paste and had never has issues.

Bacarrat · Aug 8, 2023

What I'm more impressed with is how TF people get their barrels so clean. They have to be at it for hours. I have cleaned with brushes and some abrasives, but have never gotten to where it was bare steel the whole way down the barrel. lol I get to the point to where it's clean enough and stop.

MarshallDodge · Aug 8, 2023

@Frank Green

Thank you for posting those pics. What are your thoughts on Sweets 7.62? Years ago, pre-internet, I bought some and used it in my Remington Varmint rifle. An older shooter told me it was really harsh and to stop using it. I saw some on the shelf at the local gun store recently after not seeing it in years.

Is it something that can cause the chemical etching?

For a while now I have been using Wipe Out or Birchwood Casey bore cleaner.

Baron23 · Aug 8, 2023

Frank Green said:
Guys..... This has been beaten to death but you have to watch how your using abrasive cleaners! Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12 times from what the shooter told us.

What I did get was the shooter was using ThorroClean. This is a cleaner made and mixed with Iosso Bore Paste! So sum it up how ever you want.... it's an abrasive cleaner. The lands and bore are completely damaged. The lands are all rounded over, damage to the muzzles crown as well as polished and rounded over. In the first 2" of the barrel from the chamber a brush with the cleaner was run either by hand or with a drill on it. You can see the drag marks going over the tops of the lands and down in the grooves. This isn't from when the barrel got made. My guess is the shooter was worried about the carbon ring build up in the throat. Also notice the gouges running down the bore on tops of the lands and grooves.

Watch what your doing please.

The last picture for a reference for comparison is also a 223 Remington barrel. This was a accuracy test barrel I got back from the bullet maker. It quite shooting at 14,000 rounds! Up to that point it held .5moa or better at 200 yards. This is a saami spec. 6 groove barrel (not 5R rifling). Only one guy in the ballistic lab is allowed to clean the barrel with JB bore compound when they start getting a carbon ring built up. They only use the JB when the need is felt to use it. For an approximate number of cleanings on the accuracy test barrel it got cleaned 140 to 200 times.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

View attachment 8199638

View attachment 8199639
View attachment 8199640
View attachment 8199641
View attachment 8199642

here is the accuracy test barrel with 14k on it....

View attachment 8199643

Thanks for taking the time to once again post on this subject.

Question....where in the test barrel was that last pic taken? No fire cracking, no carbon, no copper wash (well, maybe a tiny bit). That sucker is clean.

May I assume that this is well down the barrel toward the muzzle?

I only ask because some may take this as an example of proper end state of cleaning from end to end and I personally would hesitate to work on a barrel enough to get it that clean anywhere near the chamber.

Am I being silly?

D_Lamz · Aug 8, 2023

Frank, have you ever had issues in regards to people using CLR to clean barrels?

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

MarshallDodge said:
@Frank Green

Thank you for posting those pics. What are your thoughts on Sweets 7.62? Years ago, pre-internet, I bought some and used it in my Remington Varmint rifle. An older shooter told me it was really harsh and to stop using it. I saw some on the shelf at the local gun store recently after not seeing it in years.

Is it something that can cause the chemical etching?

For a while now I have been using Wipe Out or Birchwood Casey bore cleaner.

I still use Sweet's. Not all the time but when I'm in a hurry I'll use Sweet's. I don't let it soak for an extended period of time or overnight or anything like that. Wet patch one after another till they come out clean. Then dry patch it thoroughly. Then I follow up with a patch ( NO BRUSH) soaked with Rem. 40x cleaner. I'll push that patch back and forth 10x (not exiting the muzzle). Then dry patch the bore thoroughly again and then I give a patch lightly coated with Hoppe's. Dry patch it in the morning before shooting again. That's my hurry up method. Never wrecked a barrel doing that since 1988.

Etching? Usually mixing cleaners is a no no and causes etching. Doesn't matter if you mix them in a jar or in the bore. Your asking for it. Also putting the gun away dirty and not cleaning it... will cause pitting as well. The moisture in the air will react with the carbon fouling etc... and it will start pitting. Just a matter of time.

An old no no was mixing Sweet's and Shooters Choice.

Don't use CLR. Yes some guys use it. Yes it cuts thru the carbon really good! I'll admit to that. I ran a test on a c.m. barrel and just letting it sit over night wet...it ate the bluing off and started etching the bore. A S.S. barrel it was after 5 or 7 days the etching was just starting to show but overnight I didn't see anything.

Boretech eliminator is like 90% water. I can't replicate every guy that has a problem with it... it comes down to conditions of where they are at and how they using it. We've just seen it too many times with Boretech that I have cold feet over it.

I remember Boots telling me one time. He let a barrel sit with Sweets in it for days. No problem with etching. Then he took the barrel and set it on top of the hot water heater.... boom it etched/pitted. So was it a combination of the moisture and heat and electricity (I think it was an electric hot water heater) and a reaction started? This is what I mean by that we cannot always replicate what happens to this or that guy.

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

D_Lamz said:
Frank, have you ever had issues in regards to people using CLR to clean barrels?

Just posted about that above...

chevy_man · Aug 8, 2023

MarshallDodge said:
@Frank Green

Thank you for posting those pics. What are your thoughts on Sweets 7.62? Years ago, pre-internet, I bought some and used it in my Remington Varmint rifle. An older shooter told me it was really harsh and to stop using it. I saw some on the shelf at the local gun store recently after not seeing it in years.

Is it something that can cause the chemical etching?

For a while now I have been using Wipe Out or Birchwood Casey bore cleaner.

There are a lot of cleaners that will erode the steel if left long enough.

I used sweets here and there. Leave it soak for 15-30 minutes and patch it out. Never had an issue myself and it did good at getting the stubborn stuff out.

Now I use pretty much only bore tech for that reason. They claim their stuff will never harm a barrel. So far I've put that to the test by just pushing a patch every few days and letting it soak in-between.
Seems to work. I have made barrels look brand new after 15-20 patches. Really low effort if you can clean it over a week or two and not need it done right now.

I'm also not an over-cleaner. I shoot my new barrels until they stop shooting, and then clean there. So I'm usually pushing 2-300 rounds between cleaning.

I also have a nice heated garage that stays about 15-20% humidity. This is where everything is stored and cleaned. I can imagine things would be different in Florida at 95-100% humidity all day every day.

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

Baron23 said:
Thanks for taking the time to once again post on this subject.

Question....where in the test barrel was that last pic taken? No fire cracking, no carbon, no copper wash (well, maybe a tiny bit). That sucker is clean.

May I assume that this is well down the barrel toward the muzzle?

I only ask because some may take this as an example of proper end state of cleaning from end to end and I personally would hesitate to work on a barrel enough to get it that clean anywhere near the chamber.

Am I being silly?

The picture of the test barrel is the center section of the bore basically. It's in the as I received it state from the bullet maker. It's dirty and hasn't been cleaned. Yes the throat has the normal fire cracking etc..

The reason I took the picture of the center of the barrel is to show that there is no damage from cleaning at all to the lands or the grooves after a 140+ times of cleaning it. Goes back to paying attention to what you are doing and how your doing it.

37L1 · Aug 8, 2023

Just got this email from Ian at Kelbly's today:

Do NOT use CLR to clean firearms

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

chevy_man said:
I also have a nice heated garage that stays about 15-20% humidity. This is where everything is stored and cleaned. I can imagine things would be different in Florida at 95-100% humidity all day every day.

This can make a difference from one guy to the next right here!

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

chevy_man said:
I'm also not an over-cleaner. I shoot my new barrels until they stop shooting, and then clean there. So I'm usually pushing 2-300 rounds between cleaning.

Guys have to be careful with this depending on the caliber. A 308win for example is very easy on the barrel but have a caliber like a 300WM or a 243win or a 6.5PRC etc... and you let the barrel go too long in between cleanings and the barrel can get away from you. A quick clean job and the barrel might shoot good for say 15 or so rounds but then you see the accuracy drop off. Probably a sign you need to get in there and do a really good cleaning job. Now you created a problem.

As you get rounds on the barrel the throat will also start getting rougher....and it will foul more. That's normal. You will find you will have to clean it more frequently as well.

ShtrRdy · Aug 8, 2023

Thanks for the info Frank!! Lately I've been using Butch's Bore Shine to remove the powder fouling and then Bore Tech products to remove copper and carbon. But it sounds like Bore Tech might be troublesome?

Baron23 · Aug 8, 2023

chevy_man said:
There are a lot of cleaners that will erode the steel if left long enough.

I used sweets here and there. Leave it soak for 15-30 minutes and patch it out. Never had an issue myself and it did good at getting the stubborn stuff out.

Now I use pretty much only bore tech for that reason. They claim their stuff will never harm a barrel. So far I've put that to the test by just pushing a patch every few days and letting it soak in-between.
Seems to work. I have made barrels look brand new after 15-20 patches. Really low effort if you can clean it over a week or two and not need it done right now.

I'm also not an over-cleaner. I shoot my new barrels until they stop shooting, and then clean there. So I'm usually pushing 2-300 rounds between cleaning.

I also have a nice heated garage that stays about 15-20% humidity. This is where everything is stored and cleaned. I can imagine things would be different in Florida at 95-100% humidity all day every day.

I’m with you wrt to BoreTech. I’ve wet patched and left it in there overnight, I’ve plugged the muzzle and filled the bore and left it overnight and even for days, and I have a bore scope and on my SS barrels it has not caused a single detectable issue.

I’ve also soaked a mop w it, shoved it into the throat, and left it there to take care of any beginning of a carbon ring. No issues whatsoever.

I do have Sweets on the shelf but rarely use any. It’s ammonia based AFAIK and I believed even they say in the label to not leave it in there (and I’m too lazy to walk downstairs to confirm lol). Works good on copper.

PS - bottle says harmless to steel but then says to not leave it in the barrel for more than 15 minutes which doesn’t sound so harmless to me.

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

Baron23 said:
I do have Sweets on the shelf but rarely use any. It’s ammonia based AFAIK and I believed even they say in the label to not leave it in there (and I’m too lazy to walk downstairs to confirm lol). Works good on copper.

It's 5% ammonia in it.

kthomas · Aug 8, 2023

Bacarrat said:
What I'm more impressed with is how TF people get their barrels so clean. They have to be at it for hours. I have cleaned with brushes and some abrasives, but have never gotten to where it was bare steel the whole way down the barrel. lol I get to the point to where it's clean enough and stop.

I don't have a bore scope, so I have no idea how clean my barrels are actually getting...

Every 150-200 rounds they get cleaned with M-Pro 7 cleaner. Nothing crazy.

KYAggie · Aug 8, 2023

Frank, thanks for the information. In the late 90’s, I got the wild idea to use Barnes CR10 to clean my 1980 Ruger M77, 7 mag. I was testing Barnes bullets and they recommended getting all the copper out first. I got all the copper out. It never did group Barnes bullets well and I went back to Nosler. I bought a borescope a year ago and that rifle has a fare amount of pitting damage I attribute to using CR10. It still groups Nosler bullets well enough, but it seems velocity wise to be a slow barrel. I have been using Boretech Eliminator if I need to get the copper out and C4 carbon cleaner, but it sounds like I need to be careful with that as well. I always lube after cleaning with Slip2000EWL. I have found, especially with hunting rifles with factory barrels, I’m better off just cleaning with C4 and oiling with Slip2000 and not cleaning all the copper out at each use.

What are you thoughts on Boretech C4, CU+2, and Slip2000EWL?

kthomas · Aug 8, 2023

37L1 said:
Just got this email from Ian at Kelbly's today:

Do NOT use CLR to clean firearms

CLR is a bit scary.

I had a brief (failed) experiment with it. Unless you are extremely careful with it, I would just completely avoid it. There's just too much that can go wrong with it. That video shows how nasty that stuff can be on steel.

Stick with less corrosive cleaners.

Baron23 · Aug 8, 2023

Frank Green said:
It's 5% ammonia in it.

Well, yeah…it says that on the label but it also says to not leave it in there for more than 15 minutes. That’s telling to me.

Can you share what was the problem exactly that someone (or more) had w BT products. I’ve been using it with impunity for some handful of years without issue so I’m wondering what the actual problem was.

Thanks and thanks again for coming in here and sharing your wealth of knowledge. Invaluable stuff

Bacarrat · Aug 8, 2023

kthomas said:
I don't have a bore scope, so I have no idea how clean my barrels are actually getting...

Every 150-200 rounds they get cleaned with M-Pro 7 cleaner. Nothing crazy.

I have tried to clean it to bare metal before on my CM. After about a hour of JB, it got tired of it and stopped. Still had some baked on carbon. It's just too much work. Now it just use Boretech and use a nylon brush and call it a day. I clean after every range session, but don't go crazy. Aint got no time for that!

AllenOne1 · Aug 8, 2023

Frank Green said:
Guys..... This has been beaten to death but you have to watch how your using abrasive cleaners! Here is a 223 barrel with 800 rounds on it. Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired. I know the pitting is from a chemical reaction but I didn't get the whole story. It was cleaned approximately 10-12 times from what the shooter told us.

What I did get was the shooter was using ThorroClean. This is a cleaner made and mixed with Iosso Bore Paste! So sum it up how ever you want.... it's an abrasive cleaner. The lands and bore are completely damaged. The lands are all rounded over, damage to the muzzles crown as well as polished and rounded over. In the first 2" of the barrel from the chamber a brush with the cleaner was run either by hand or with a drill on it. You can see the drag marks going over the tops of the lands and down in the grooves. This isn't from when the barrel got made. My guess is the shooter was worried about the carbon ring build up in the throat. Also notice the gouges running down the bore on tops of the lands and grooves.

Watch what your doing please.

The last picture for a reference for comparison is also a 223 Remington barrel. This was a accuracy test barrel I got back from the bullet maker. It quite shooting at 14,000 rounds! Up to that point it held .5moa or better at 200 yards. This is a saami spec. 6 groove barrel (not 5R rifling). Only one guy in the ballistic lab is allowed to clean the barrel with JB bore compound when they start getting a carbon ring built up. They only use the JB when the need is felt to use it. For an approximate number of cleanings on the accuracy test barrel it got cleaned 140 to 200 times.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

View attachment 8199638

View attachment 8199639
View attachment 8199640
View attachment 8199641
View attachment 8199642

here is the accuracy test barrel with 14k on it....

View attachment 8199643

Frank
Put down the bore scope and shoot it. How does it look on the target? Isn't that the standard response when we get a borescope thread running? LOL

farwest · Aug 8, 2023

Frank or some other experienced shooter, what would be a good bore scope to get? Right now I just use a bore light. I clean my rifles on regular basis. Thank you.

Rob01 · Aug 8, 2023

farwest said:
Frank or some other experienced shooter, what would be a good bore scope to get? Right now I just use a bore light. I clean my rifles on regular basis. Thank you.

None.

Kadams1563 · Aug 8, 2023

ok nice read.

Heading off to CLR my barrel.

Lol

JBoomhauer · Aug 8, 2023

Kadams1563 said:
ok nice read.

Heading off to CLR my barrel.

Lol

Slowly puts thorrclean away.

DJL2 · Aug 8, 2023

It's weird how you get these two emergent camps of shooters. Camp 1 takes great pride in cleaning to the point of ruination as some sort of ritual. Camp 2 takes great pride in not cleaning until it's forced upon them by easily preventable performance degradation. I hope to continue avoiding both camps. ;-)

Rob01 · Aug 8, 2023

DJL2 said:
It's weird how you get these two emergent camps of shooters. Camp 1 takes great pride in cleaning to the point of ruination as some sort of ritual. Camp 2 takes great pride in not cleaning until it's forced upon them by easily preventable performance degradation. I hope to continue avoiding both camps. ;-)

Yup best to not be at either extreme.

Ichi · Aug 8, 2023

DJL2 said:
It's weird how you get these two emergent camps of shooters. Camp 1 takes great pride in cleaning to the point of ruination as some sort of ritual. Camp 2 takes great pride in not cleaning until it's forced upon them by easily preventable performance degradation. I hope to continue avoiding both camps. ;-)

Actually 3 camps... the 3rd camp goes off on their own, trying to find a happy medium and not talk about it so as not to be crucified by the other camps.

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

AllenOne1 said:
Frank
Put down the bore scope and shoot it. How does it look on the target? Isn't that the standard response when we get a borescope thread running? LOL

Yep… if it’s shooting…. Don’t look down the bore! You will get a head case going on! That’s funny!

Guys I rarely look down the barrel. I look at the chamber work and crown work when that gets done. All looks good… it gets screwed on the gun. The only time I’ll look down it is if I start seeing a problem on the target or something else is making me question it. Usually though if the barrel has a lot of rounds on it and you start having issues. It’s probably time to pull it anyways.

carbonbased · Aug 8, 2023

Ichi said:
Actually 3 camps... the 3rd camp goes off on their own, trying to find a happy medium and not talk about it so as not to crucified by the other camps.

This 3rd camp, they are the real sons a bitches lol

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

JBoomhauer said:
Slowly puts thorrclean away.

That’s funny shit!

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

Baron23 said:
Well, yeah…it says that on the label but it also says to not leave it in there for more than 15 minutes. That’s telling to me.

Can you share what was the problem exactly that someone (or more) had w BT products. I’ve been using it with impunity for some handful of years without issue so I’m wondering what the actual problem was.

Thanks and thanks again for coming in here and sharing your wealth of knowledge. Invaluable stuff

Corrosion/ pitting. I/we can’t put an exact finger on what and how it happens. We’ve just seen a pattern with the stuff.

Here is my guess. Being 90% or so water base is the issue. Just like if you shoot the barrel and put it away dirty for an extended period of time the bore will corrode/pit. It’s the moisture/humidity in the air reacting with the carbon fouling etc…that starts the corrosion process. Now you have a cleaner that is 90% water based. Little to no oil or preservative to protect the bore.

One guy who lives in Arizona where it’s dry and low humidity vs a guy living near the ocean or in a real humid environment has problems. We can’t replicate every scenario.

After I clean my barrel… I’ll run a patches of Hoppe’s down the bore. It will protect as good as any oil as well as it keeps cleaning. Just dry patch it (depending on how long it sat I will run a fresh wet patch down the bore) before shooting it. Also I’ve used CLP in the past to protect the bore but don’t use it anymore for the bore. Just the moving parts on some of the gun.

Jrb572 · Aug 8, 2023

Is it ok to store after cleaning with a patch of Lucas gun oil?

BCP · Aug 8, 2023

Frank Green said:
800 rounds on it...Cleaned after every 75 rounds fired

He would've been better off not cleaning it at all.

KYAggie said:
Barnes CR10

The only time I've used Barnes CR10 was when the rifle was keyholing from so much copper in the barrel. It's a port of last resort imho. Also the smell is lethal.

Baron23 · Aug 8, 2023

farwest said:
Frank or some other experienced shooter, what would be a good bore scope to get? Right now I just use a bore light. I clean my rifles on regular basis. Thank you.

Teslong…..and fuck the people who tell you to throw it out. They are very handy and the only way to tell what’s going on in your barrel and how effective your cleaning routine is.

Well, except Rob cause he’s a mod! Lol

Find them on Amazon.

b6graham · Aug 8, 2023

Baron23 said:
Teslong…..and fuck the people who tell you to throw it out. They are very handy and the only way to tell what’s going on in your barrel and how effective your cleaning routine is.

Well, except Rob cause he’s a mod! Lol

Find them on Amazon.

They're a good tool. For the people who understand when and how to use them

But like a lot of tools. They get misused and/or misunderstood

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

I’m going to plagiarize the M40A1 manual here some as well.

One thing I’ve always said is the barrel will sweat after cleaning…as well as when the barrel is warm the fouling is soft and the sooner you can start cleaning it and get some solvent in the bore the easier it will clean as well.

Here is what the manual says and I agree with the vast majority of it. So who ever wrote it gets an attaboy!

”…residue, carbon, and metal filings…the deposits collect moisture and cause rust (corrosion). Although modern ammunition has a non corrosive primer which makes cleaning easier, the primer still leaves a deposit. The rifle must be cleaned within a reasonable time interval ( a couple of hours) after completion of firing. Repeated firing will not injure the rifle if it is properly cleaned prior to the first round. After a weapon has been fired, it must be cleaned for at least three consecutive days. For several days after firing, check the rifle for corrosion and fouling by running a clean patch thru the bore ( I would use a wet patch of Hoppes not just a dry patch). Graphite and carbon deposits will sweat from the pores of the metal for three days, thus the need for repeated cleaning.”

Frank Green · Aug 8, 2023

The better the bore scope the better you see inside the bore. Yes as you get better…. Price goes up.

We use Gradient lens Corp bore scopes. Two are on high definition monitors and we have a hand held one as well.

Baron23 · Aug 8, 2023

Frank Green said:
Corrosion/ pitting. I/we can’t put an exact finger on what and how it happens. We’ve just seen a pattern with the stuff.

Here is my guess. Being 90% or so water base is the issue. Just like if you shoot the barrel and put it away dirty for an extended period of time the bore will corrode/pit. It’s the moisture/humidity in the air reacting with the carbon fouling etc…that starts the corrosion process. Now you have a cleaner that is 90% water based. Little to no oil or preservative to protect the bore.

One guy who lives in Arizona where it’s dry and low humidity vs a guy living near the ocean or in a real humid environment has problems. We can’t replicate every scenario.

After I clean my barrel… I’ll run a patches of Hoppe’s down the bore. It will protect as good as any oil as well as it keeps cleaning. Just dry patch it (depending on how long it sat I will run a fresh wet patch down the bore) before shooting it. Also I’ve used CLP in the past to protect the bore but don’t use it anymore for the bore. Just the moving parts on some of the gun.

Never had that experience with the stuff and I do know many others who use it and also have no issues. I’ve never heard of pitting and corrosion being attributed to BT products.

How were you able to isolate the fault to use of BT product and not some other dumb shit stuff the gun owner may have done?

As for water based….well, that is why we dry patch them, right. Haha

And I live in Maryland which is as humid as it gets. No issues with it.

Were these CM or SS?

Haha…as for bore scopes and just put a new barrel when you think it’s not grouping… well, one of us owns a barrel company and…well, you know! Lol

JBoomhauer · Aug 8, 2023

Frank Green said:
The better the bore scope the better you see inside the bore. Yes as you get better…. Price goes up.

We use Gradient lens Corp bore scopes. Two are on high definition monitors and we have a hand held one as well.

I use those at work for inspecting aerospace machining. Quality matters. As does an education of what you are looking at.

farwest · Aug 8, 2023

Thank you for the recommendations on bore scopes. The Gradient Lens Corp bore scopes are out of my price range.
I ordered a Teslong NTG500H from Teslong. They offer LE/MIL vet pricing and free shipping. Teslong utube reviews were also helpful.

Frank- Thank you for the the information on M40A1 rifle cleaning. I clearly shows that a little extra care makes a difference.

Frank Green · Aug 9, 2023

Jrb572 said:
Is it ok to store after cleaning with a patch of Lucas gun oil?

I don't see why not. I've got some. Never used it in the bore but it's oil so I don't see no issues.

Later, Frank

DeathBeforeDismount · Aug 9, 2023

In to listen to all the chads tell Frank who makes the best barrels in the world, why he is wrong and doesn't know what he is talking about. But "XXX" on youtube says he uses.............

Frank Green · Aug 9, 2023

Baron23 said:
Never had that experience with the stuff and I do know many others who use it and also have no issues. I’ve never heard of pitting and corrosion being attributed to BT products.

How were you able to isolate the fault to use of BT product and not some other dumb shit stuff the gun owner may have done?

As for water based….well, that is why we dry patch them, right. Haha

And I live in Maryland which is as humid as it gets. No issues with it.

Were these CM or SS?

Haha…as for bore scopes and just put a new barrel when you think it’s not grouping… well, one of us owns a barrel company and…well, you know! Lol

The BT products and corrosion.... again I/we can't nail it down. Just seen a pattern with primarily that cleaner and guys with pitted/corroded barrels. Is it every month? No. I say we see like 3-4 a year but it's mostly just that one it seems like. Again we can't replicate what each guy is doing.

My only guess is it's the left over moisture from the cleaner that is reacting with the fouling as some think they got the barrel really clean and that they cleaned it down to bare metal but I'll tell ya.... there is still some fouling left in the bore. The other possibility is that after a guy dry patches it... he doesn't run a oiled patch down the bore to protect it.

Every one we've seen has been SS barrels. I think it's just luck of the draw as that is like 98% of what we make now. Yes we still do CM but very little of it anymore.

Good one on the last comment! But we don't just throw a new one on.... Good example was Dave in the shop here last year. Was at a match with his 6.5PRC and he blew up a bullet. Asked me to look at the barrel. It had right around 900 rounds on it at the time. He said what do you think? I said it's carbon fouled really bad. Clean it good. So he did. Still had some really stubborn carbon build up in it that he couldn't get out. I told him to give the barrel a light finish lap and will look at it again. That took like 95% of it out. Gun went right back to shooting and no bullet failures. He just pulled the barrel recently. Think it is around 1200 rounds. It's still shooting good but it's on it's last legs and he's now pulled it.

Baron23 · Aug 9, 2023

Frank Green said:
The BT products and corrosion.... again I/we can't nail it down. Just seen a pattern with primarily that cleaner and guys with pitted/corroded barrels. Is it every month? No. I say we see like 3-4 a year but it's mostly just that one it seems like. Again we can't replicate what each guy is doing.

My only guess is it's the left over moisture from the cleaner that is reacting with the fouling as some think they got the barrel really clean and that they cleaned it down to bare metal but I'll tell ya.... there is still some fouling left in the bore. The other possibility is that after a guy dry patches it... he doesn't run a oiled patch down the bore to protect it.

Every one we've seen has been SS barrels. I think it's just luck of the draw as that is like 98% of what we make now. Yes we still do CM but very little of it anymore.

Good one on the last comment! But we don't just throw a new one on.... Good example was Dave in the shop here last year. Was at a match with his 6.5PRC and he blew up a bullet. Asked me to look at the barrel. It had right around 900 rounds on it at the time. He said what do you think? I said it's carbon fouled really bad. Clean it good. So he did. Still had some really stubborn carbon build up in it that he couldn't get out. I told him to give the barrel a light finish lap and will look at it again. That took like 95% of it out. Gun went right back to shooting and no bullet failures. He just pulled the barrel recently. Think it is around 1200 rounds. It's still shooting good but it's on it's last legs and he's now pulled it.

Once again, as always, thank you for taking the time to reply.

And, I think you know that the bore scope/barrel change comment was intended as a funny throw away line…but I have zero comedic talent! Lol.

Have a great day, Frank.

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