What AR15 cartridge is a worthwhile step up from 5.56?

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

What other cartridges that fit in an AR15 provide enough of an increase in performance (increased range, dealing with wind drift better, terminal performance, etc.) over 5.56 that make them a worthy upgrade from 5.56? I know there are the duds like the .224 Valk and .22 Nosler and there are also newcomers like the 6 and 22 ARC as well as the 6.5 Grendel that has been quietly chugging along; but do any of them bring enough of an increase in performance to the table to be worth owning? Or is it just the case that if you want a meaningful performance upgrade step up to an AR10 in .308/6.5?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to your responses.

P.S. this question may have been triggered by reading about what you all are doing with your 6ARC and 6.5G rifles and having a spare lower just lying around...

TonyTheTiger · Jun 7, 2024

For target use? I wouldn't even think about replacing 5.56 with something bigger unless I was primarily shooting beyond 500 yards or had to make things dead.

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

TonyTheTiger said:
For target use? I wouldn't even think about replacing 5.56 with something bigger unless I was primarily shooting beyond 500 yards or had to make things dead.

If I had to pick a purpose I'd go with dealing with two legged problems and maybe banging steel, as I have bolt actions for when I just want to make small groups on paper.

Jgault · Jun 7, 2024

6.8 spc, incredible round especially in barrels 11 to 16 inches, great for reloading, and out performs the Grendel with the same length barrel in short to mid ranges, and hits like a sledgehammer for hunting. The Grendel gains the edge if it has a longer barrel after 400 yards. Only drawback is semi limited ammo available and the bullet selection has fallen off, but Hornady still makes 2 great bullets for it at a reasonable price.

hkguns · Jun 7, 2024

The myth about using the same magazines, is just that, a myth.

In order to get any other cartridges to feed / extract reliably, you need at a minimum, the correct geometry followers, if not properly designed magazines. Oh, and the right bolt with an extractor with the proper dimensions as well.

For the target use case, as stated above, stick with 556. Load some 77gr SMK's and call it a day.

If you are going to go bigger, go a lot bigger. My best success is with the 450BM or my #1 favorite alternative, 458 SOCOM. The Grendel isn't enough juice to be worth the squeeze and was the absolute most problematic to get to function reliably for me.

TonyTheTiger · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
If I had to pick a purpose I'd go with dealing with two legged problems

Like legit mil/le use? Or like SHTF stuff that is unlikely to ever be utilized as such? Either way I might still lean back towards 5.56 just because of the inherent reliability of a gun firing the cartridge it was designed for, using the mags developed for it. Plus ammo, mags and parts availability.
I've got 6 and 6.5mm stuff, but it's not hard use or as dependable as good old 5.56 and the ballistic horsepower for target use isn't evident till your targets are a ways out there.

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

TonyTheTiger said:
Like legit mil/le use? Or like SHTF stuff that is unlikely to ever be utilized as such? Either way I might still lean back towards 5.56 just because of the inherent reliability of a gun firing the cartridge it was designed for, using the mags developed for it. Plus ammo, mags and parts availability.
I've got 6 and 6.5mm stuff, but it's not hard use or as dependable as good old 5.56 and the ballistic horsepower for target use isn't evident till your targets are a ways out there.

Civil unrest in the event something goes horrible wrong in the Los Angeles area, I'm not LE or Mil.

MK20 · Jun 7, 2024

Mk262

BCP · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
What other cartridges that fit in an AR15 provide enough of an increase in performance (increased range, dealing with wind drift better, terminal performance, etc.) over 5.56 that make them a worthy upgrade from 5.56? I know there are the duds like the .224 Valk and .22 Nosler and there are also newcomers like the 6 and 22 ARC as well as the 6.5 Grendel that has been quietly chugging along; but do any of them bring enough of an increase in performance to the table to be worth owning? Or is it just the case that if you want a meaningful performance upgrade step up to an AR10 in .308/6.5?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to your responses.

P.S. this question may have been triggered by reading about what you all are doing with your 6ARC and 6.5G rifles and having a spare lower just lying around...

6.5 grendel is better but it costs about double for retail ammo. I'd always have at least one good 223 AR they are too easy to shoot and too common not to own.

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

BCP said:
6.5 grendel is better but it costs about double for retail ammo. I'd always have at least one good 223 AR they are too easy to shoot and too common not to own.

I have a 5.56 and that isn't ever going to be sold. I am in the process of putting together an AR10 and have a spare AR15 lower lying around and was wondering if there was something in between that might be worth building.

dms416 · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
If I had to pick a purpose I'd go with dealing with two legged problems and maybe banging steel, as I have bolt actions for when I just want to make small groups on paper.

Despite keyboard warrior lore, in no way would that disqualify 5.56.
What many fail to acknowledge is what is required to change behavior vs those that require the margins of say hostage rescue or an ethical on a game animal.

When deviating from a platform's OEM chambering always remember, no better option exists without penalty/trade-offs.

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

dms416 said:
Despite keyboard warrior lore, in no way would that disqualify 5.56.
What many fail to acknowledge is what is required to change behavior vs those that require the margins of say hostage rescue or an ethical on a game animal.

When deviating from a platform's OEM chambering always remember, no better option exists without penalty/trade-offs.

I was wondering if the march of technology had changed anything but your point is an excellent one.

dms416 · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
I was wondering if the march of technology had changed anything but your point is an excellent one.

Mind you this is The Hide where most gladly will pay the fiddler for a touch more BC, speed, range

Tanstaafl · Jun 7, 2024

Jgault said:
6.8 spc, incredible round...

It's sad to say "It was", like a relative died or something. AR Performance and Noveske made great barrels. Precision Reflex steel mags are excellent. The best part was the great ammo selection from Silver State Armory. A 25 round mag full of 90gr bonded Nosler gives you a lot of confidence looking for hogs in creek bottoms or 2 legged varmints going bump in the night.

It's unfortunate how the ammo choices have shrunk, but in addition to Hornady, Sellier & Bellot FMJ and Prvi Partizan BTHP are readily available at reasonable prices. But going forward its 6ARC for me.

Edit: I see Wilson Combat still has an 11.3" and three 16" variants. You could still build a very effective rifle around one of those.

Aftermath · Jun 7, 2024

PETRA | Falkor Defense

The most advanced high performance AR 300WM ever built.

www.falkordefense.com

david walter · Jun 7, 2024

300 HAM'R

clcustom1911 · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
Civil unrest in the event something goes horrible wrong in the Los Angeles area, I'm not LE or Mil.

If possible, step 1 is get out of LA area. I did years ago and it was incredible for my general health.

PSA usually has their AAC 77gr OTM 5.56 ammo on sale for like 50-60 cents per round. It's on par with MK262 ballistics (both velocity and BC). The 77smk or 77OTM has been successfully schwacking the schwacked for many years during the GWOT.

I buy 200-300 rounds whenever it's on sale (1-2x a month) and now I have a bunch for them 2 legged critters.

reelserious · Jun 7, 2024

My 6.8 spc rifles crank out 1700 ftlbs energy in a 6.5 lbs rifle. Thats my go to system

AR shooter · Jun 7, 2024

I caught the bug and the 223/5.56 was boring so tried the Valkyrie, 22 Nosler, 6 ARC and the 204. The 223 is ok to 600 but can do better than that with some of the others consistently. They all have their purpose.

ironpony52 · Jun 7, 2024

9MM and .223, 5.56 it will always be available if something goes wrong.

XP1K · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
Civil unrest in the event something goes horrible wrong in the Los Angeles area, I'm not LE or Mil.

I doubt you'll be looking at too many long range shots inside city limits. I say buy stock in 5.56. Or better yet, start working on your exit strategy.

I can't even imagine being around that many people when the fur hits the fan. Every time I go to, or even get near Houston, I look out across the huge subdivisions and I think, this place is going to take itself apart if it ever does all come crashing down. I'm over an hour away and I'm still too close.

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

XP1K said:
I doubt you'll be looking at too many long range shots inside city limits. I say buy stock in 5.56. Or better yet, start working on your exit strategy.

I can't even imagine being around that many people when the fur hits the fan. Every time I go to, or even get near Houston, I look put across the huge subdivisions and I think, this place is going to take itself apart if it ever does all come crashing down. I'm over an hour away and I'm still too close.

Aging parents are here so until they pass I'm stuck. At the moment the plan is to have enough food, water, ammo, and other supplies to hold out a month. If something does go down it's going to be a wild ride, that's for sure.

XP1K · Jun 7, 2024

Franko said:
Aging parents are here so until they pass I'm stuck. At the moment the plan is to have enough food, water, ammo, and other supplies to hold out a month. If something does go down it's going to be a wild ride, that's for sure.

Ah, bummer, but I can understand that. Fortunately for me, I live in the sticks, surrounded by my immediate family on a dead end road. We actually didn't plan it this way but it worked out pretty nice now that I think about it.

Don't knock the heavier 5.56 offerings like the 77 smk, or the tmk if you can get it. 73gr eldm is pretty good also. And the 75gr hornady black. I loaded a bunch of 60gr vmax for general purpose stuff and have shot some pigs with them with good results. The 77 tmk is is legendary over on rokslide for it's performance on game. It's a nasty little bullet.

I was disgruntled with my large frame platform for a while and I was going to dump it for 6arc. I ended up stealing a LMT MWS so I've stuck with the 308 for extended distances and 5.56 for general use out to 400 or so. Standard cartridges and all my parts interchange between rifles.

91Eunozs · Jun 7, 2024

david walter said:
300 HAM'R

I’m far too heavily invested in 300 BLK to change, but the 300 HAMR is a better round. I primarily use it for HD and for fun subsonic plinking, but occasionally use the supers for pigs.

Same with my 6.8 guns…I’m really interested in the new 6mm offerings…especially the 6 Maxx…but have literally thousands of rounds plus dies, bullets, etc., and it’s not worth changing for me. 6.8 is our primary pig getter, though I occasionally like to use my AR10…faster follow ups with the 6.8s though.

The beauty of the AR is that with the push of two pins, you can swap the upper and have an entirely different rifle. I shoot everything from short 5.56 up to 450 Bushmaster, and a lot in between. Find what works for you.

Honestly? @OP Just build another 5.56; maybe with a longer (or shorter) barrel than the one you already have. Or a twin. Always good to have a spare.

Franko · Jun 7, 2024

XP1K said:
Ah, bummer, but I can understand that. Fortunately for me, I live in the sticks, surrounded by my immediate family on a dead end road. We actually didn't plan it this way but it worked out pretty nice now that I think about it.

Don't knock the heavier 5.56 offerings like the 77 smk, or the tmk if you can get it. 73gr eldm is pretty good also. And the 75gr hornady black. I loaded a bunch of 60gr vmax for general purpose stuff and have shot some pigs with them with good results. The 77 tmk is is legendary over on rokslide for it's performance on game. It's a nasty little bullet.

I was disgruntled with my large frame platform for a while and I was going to dump it for 6arc. I ended up stealing a LMT MWS so I've stuck with the 308 for extended distances and 5.56 for general use out to 400 or so. Standard cartridges and all my parts interchange between rifles.

I am in the process of putting together a large frame AR10 in 6.5CM and all the talk on the 6ARC and 6.5G has me second guessing myself as it would be nice to have to support only the AR15 platform. We will see how things go.

I saw the thread on Rockslide as somebody here brought it to my attention. It was eye opening to say the least.

diggler1833 · Jun 7, 2024

I believe the 5.56 to be an extremely effective small/medium critter (50lbs and under) cartridge to abouts 250 yards with a good bullet. It is certainly lethal well beyond that, but frequently the animal dies a decent distance from where you shot it, even with a good hit.

I shot a decent amount of 5.56 at the 500, 600, and 1K yard lines in matches. It'll still works there, but many cartridges will cut your wind calls significantly.

Really, a good bullet in a 5.56 offers a lot more than the 55/62gr FMJ stuff. It definitely bears considering if one wants mid-range target enjoyment and okay terminal performance on humans.

Unless for very specific purposes, I shy away from the big (.45+ cal) thumpers for small frame ARs. Trajectory sucks, capacity sucks worse, and even reloading for them is expensive. But they do have a place. Based on OPs lateral limits though...this isn't one of those places.

I've killed a lot of stuff with the 6.8 and 6.5G. Nothing with a 6 ARC, but it's close enough to include. Capacity of 24+ rounds, decent trajectory, significantly better lethality, good bullet selection (not 6.8)...if I had to "upgrade" my cartridge choice, I'd be looking here if I wanted to stay in a small frame AR. I definitely an glad I upgraded when I was hog hunting all the time. 5.56 isn't quite enough a lot of the time on running pigs (especially big ones).

You can certainly "what if" enough scenarios to justify the purchase of anything.

Makinchips208 · Jun 7, 2024

If I had to I would go 6MAX.

But I won’t. 556 if good enough for me, as well as cheap and plentiful.

91Eunozs · Jun 8, 2024

Yeah, my 450 BM upper is pretty much only used in very thick brush going after wounded game.

If I wasn’t so invested in 6.8, I’d definitely build up a 6 Maxx as well; very intrigued by the ability to use the same bolt, same as with the 300BLK.

I really thought 300BLK was gonna be the end all/be all for my needs outside 5.56 (well, and .308 in my AR10), but after seeing its lack of performance on bigger hogs, even in supersonic loads, I moved to 6.8 years ago and we have three of those in regular rotation out at the ranch now. Love that 6.8 for pigs and the smallish deer we get here in Texas hill country; damn near the perfect round for my needs.

I know shot placement is everything, and you can make anything work, but the right tool for the job certainly helps you achieve success easier, and with more consistency.

All that said, if I had to grab just one, it’ll be a 5.56 upper for everyone, every time.

flogxal · Jun 8, 2024

Franko said:
I am in the process of putting together a large frame AR10 in 6.5CM and all the talk on the 6ARC and 6.5G has me second guessing myself as it would be nice to have to support only the AR15 platform. We will see how things go.

I saw the thread on Rockslide as somebody here brought it to my attention. It was eye opening to say the least.

Franko, have you worked with AR 10 sized gas guns much?

I have a couple 6.5G and a 6 ARC, comparing them to .223/5.56 really seems unfair in any way except magazine capacity and even there, is that such a big deal? If you like shooting at 500+ yds, the 6 ARC / 6.5 G give much better splash and better physical impacts if you're shooting steel.

I have a 6.5 CM bolt gun, I would not want a gas gun in that size. But I have zero experience running AR 10 equivalents in gas gun.

Biggy · Jun 8, 2024

IMHO, I think the 6mm Max with the right bullets for the applications, could very will be the best ** overall ** assault rifle cartridge ever developed and would be my choice for the ultimate AR15 / M16 cartridge ** if ** and when it would ever be adopted by our military, because then the ammo price and resupply would be more comparable to 5.56 but it would have extended range and lethality.

Jsp556 · Jun 8, 2024

6.5 Grendel is my favorite non 5.56 small frame round. Tons more ammo options and availability. 6.5G is usually $10 per box cheaper in the box stores and always in stock. You’re going to have to start hand loading to get the same ammo options with anything else.

I have no clue what all you own but if you’re planning for SHTF scenarios and already have a solid 5.56 gun/ammo/mags/replacement parts and the same for a 9mm handgun, I’d make sure I was filling needs in sustainability. Elderly parents leads us to believe you’re bugging in. Home security, food, water, medicine, batteries, and possibly body armor. Night vision or thermal will be a bigger capability than building 2 more rifles in 2 different chamberings that each require different parts, mags, and ammo.

Sorry for the thread drift.

JS8588 · Jun 8, 2024

I'm going to give the weird response here.

Where you live, if you *really* want something that deals with 2 legged predators better than 556...

The answer, in a small frame, is 7.62x39.

No, you're not going to get better range out of it. You're building an AR10 for that anyway.

The ammo is still affordable, relatively speaking and it will put more of a hurt on something inside of 200 (or, if you're Rob Ski, which you aren't and neither am I, inside 500) yards.

300 BO will do it too, but I have an irrational hatred of rebated rims.

bfoosh006 · Jun 8, 2024

Given the OP's desires / requests... If I were to "step up" , I'd consider the 6.5 Grendel. It is "main stream" enough to be viable in my mind..

That said... over the past few + years, the 5.56 cartridge has come a long way. Bullet terminal improvements being the main improvements.
77gr's help make longer range hits "easier" ( wind cheating ) , and up close, their ability to fragment more reliably, makes for a formidable / cost effective round.
.224 Blind Barrier bullet improvements have also tightened the gap between improved cartridges and the 5.56 / .223. ( Gold Dot, various USGI designs )

And even in a worst case scenario, ( SHTF ) you'd probably be able to find 5.56 around. The fact that most others will be using 5.56, Including Uncle Sugar, means you won't have to carry a crap load of a different round. ( Which also brings up a weight consideration with other rounds. )

Another thing I would consider, is parts compatibly , poop happens... so being able to use parts from a common 5.56 upper is a bonus to me.

I guess what I am saying is , don't under estimate the 5.56... Uncle Sam has drastically improved the effectiveness of the 5.56 over the years.
And sometimes, carrying relying on a average round isn't such a bad thing.

I'd bet, in Ukraine ... the most common small arms calibers are the same ones used for decades.

bfoosh006 · Jun 8, 2024

Franko said:
I am in the process of putting together a large frame AR10 in 6.5CM and all the talk on the 6ARC and 6.5G has me second guessing myself as it would be nice to have to support only the AR15 platform. We will see how things go.

I saw the thread on Rockslide as somebody here brought it to my attention. It was eye opening to say the least.

Could you link to the thread on Rockslide ? Thank You

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

flogxal said:
Franko, have you worked with AR 10 sized gas guns much?

I have a couple 6.5G and a 6 ARC, comparing them to .223/5.56 really seems unfair in any way except magazine capacity and even there, is that such a big deal? If you like shooting at 500+ yds, the 6 ARC / 6.5 G give much better splash and better physical impacts if you're shooting steel.

I have a 6.5 CM bolt gun, I would not want a gas gun in that size. But I have zero experience running AR 10 equivalents in gas gun.

I do not have a large frame yet. I am in the process of building one and want to see how the other half lives. I will admit that I am having second thoughts after reading about the 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel here. One of the big reasons for the AR10 was that I am magazine limited in CA and thought more horsepower might be the way.

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

Jsp556 said:
6.5 Grendel is my favorite non 5.56 small frame round. Tons more ammo options and availability. 6.5G is usually $10 per box cheaper in the box stores and always in stock. You’re going to have to start hand loading to get the same ammo options with anything else.

I have no clue what all you own but if you’re planning for SHTF scenarios and already have a solid 5.56 gun/ammo/mags/replacement parts and the same for a 9mm handgun, I’d make sure I was filling needs in sustainability. Elderly parents leads us to believe you’re bugging in. Home security, food, water, medicine, batteries, and possibly body armor. Night vision or thermal will be a bigger capability than building 2 more rifles in 2 different chamberings that each require different parts, mags, and ammo.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Night vision and body armor might happen further down the road but my time and cash is limited (esp with respect to night vision; man that stuff is expensive). Your advice is appreciated.

LRRPF52 · Jun 8, 2024

Jgault said:
6.8 spc, incredible round especially in barrels 11 to 16 inches, great for reloading, and out performs the Grendel with the same length barrel in short to mid ranges, and hits like a sledgehammer for hunting. The Grendel gains the edge if it has a longer barrel after 400 yards. Only drawback is semi limited ammo available and the bullet selection has fallen off, but Hornady still makes 2 great bullets for it at a reasonable price.

I disproved this already back from 2009-2012 with my 16” Grendel. It seemed like people were being reasonable and accurate when making those statements back then, and a lot of dudes simply read it and repeated it without ever checking. I never wanted a 16” Grendel, but that’s what I ended up with after trying to check out from Midway with a 20”, then an 18”. 16 and 24 were all that were left, so I put a 16” in the cart and checked out. Glad I did now, because it exposed a lot of the BS about Grendel not being capable or comparable from the same barrel lengths.

It would be fun to do a side-by-side with short barrels, since I’ve been shooting the 12” Grendel now for 7 years straight. I don’t see a perceptible difference between my 17.6”-18” Grendels, though I can show the minutiae on paper.

I’m not seeing any ballistic advantages to the 6.8 from 12” barrels. The 6.8 bullets bleed momentum really fast due to how they are shaped.

Both of them have the same basic case capacity and when you shoot the same bullet weights, they are within 20-40fps of each other, which is lost rapidly by the 6.8 out of the muzzle and surpassed by the more aerodynamic 6.5mms.

It just is what it is. The one bullet that makes the 6.8 SPC II behave more like a Grendel is the Berger 130gr Classic Hunter with .490 G1 BC, but you aren’t kicking it out fast. Hornady 6.8 bolt gun data with 130gr bullets loaded longer than AR-15 lengths at 2.355” COL is only doing 2300fps from a 16” barrel.

LRRPF52 · Jun 8, 2024

Franko said:
What other cartridges that fit in an AR15 provide enough of an increase in performance (increased range, dealing with wind drift better, terminal performance, etc.) over 5.56 that make them a worthy upgrade from 5.56? I know there are the duds like the .224 Valk and .22 Nosler and there are also newcomers like the 6 and 22 ARC as well as the 6.5 Grendel that has been quietly chugging along; but do any of them bring enough of an increase in performance to the table to be worth owning? Or is it just the case that if you want a meaningful performance upgrade step up to an AR10 in .308/6.5?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to your responses.

P.S. this question may have been triggered by reading about what you all are doing with your 6ARC and 6.5G rifles and having a spare lower just lying around...

Grendel is the way.

reelserious · Jun 8, 2024

reelserious said:
My 6.8 spc rifles crank out 1700 ftlbs energy in a 6.5 lbs rifle. Thats my go to system

And with a 110 barnes TTX bullet will kill just about anything and it goes through a car real well so theres that

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

bfoosh006 said:
Could you link to the thread on Rockslide ? Thank You

Here are the ones on

.223

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

6mm

6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

With the success of .223 and 6.5 threads on big game, thought I’d throw this one into the mix. Show and detail your results harvesting big game (deer, bear, elk, moose, African game) using 6mm/.243 cartridges. Please detail bullet, MV, impact velocity, and whether hand load or factory ammo.

rokslide.com

6.5

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

It is a huge amount of reading and pictures but suffice to say all the data opened my eyes on just how effective smaller calibers can be. Finding this data also coincided with me being frustrated on how hard it was to actually shoot a 7mm RM and get it to make good groups from field shooting positions.

LRRPF52 said:
Grendel is the way.

You sir are one of the primary reasons for this. All the data you have provided in your posts has me really second guessing myself on the AR10 and thinking that a 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel is going to be a better choice than a 5.56 and 6.5 CM large frame due to ease of supporting a single platform, lower recoil, and the fact that AR15 parts all play well together while I am learning that AR10 don't.

LRRPF52 · Jun 8, 2024

Franko said:
I do not have a large frame yet. I am in the process of building one and want to see how the other half lives. I will admit that I am having second thoughts after reading about the 6 ARC and 6.5 Grendel here. One of the big reasons for the AR10 was that I am magazine limited in CA and thought more horsepower might be the way.

I’ve been really big into AR-10s, including the Dutch ArmaLites, KACs, Eagle Arms ArmaLites, and custom builds from reputable companies that shoot like lasers. Have owned 7 of them so far, including a small frame .308. .260 Rem is really nice for LR until you look at what it takes to load for it and losing brass every 3 firings.

What happened with me was that Grendel ruined my love affair with AR-10s, so I don’t shoot the AR-10s anymore. Instead, I ended up with 22”, 2x 18”, 17.6”, 16”, 14.5”, 12”, 10.5”, and now 8.5” Grendels. Have given away and sold several as well. Every time I shed one, 3 more pop up into my armory somehow like Gremlins.

The basic takeaway is that you get more momentum on target like a .308, at about 78-82% of its energy when comparing same barrel lengths, but with less than half the recoil, so sight picture is more like 5.56 where you can see your own hits, but it actually makes a loud noise when it hits, knocks plates down, and makes bigger holes in things. Fits in the AR-15.

127 factory loads for it that are all meant to work in gas guns, unlike a lot of .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor loads.

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

LRRPF52 said:
I’ve been really big into AR-10s, including the Dutch ArmaLites, KACs, Eagle Arms ArmaLites, and custom builds from reputable companies that shoot like lasers. Have owned 7 of them so far, including a small frame .308. .260 Rem is really nice for LR until you look at what it takes to load for it and losing brass every 3 firings.

What happened with me was that Grendel ruined my love affair with AR-10s, so I don’t shoot the AR-10s anymore. Instead, I ended up with 22”, 2x 18”, 17.6”, 16”, 14.5”, 12”, 10.5”, and now 8.5” Grendels. Have given away and sold several as well. Every time I shed one, 3 more pop up into my armory somehow like Gremlins.

The basic takeaway is that you get more momentum on target like a .308, at about 78-82% of its energy when comparing same barrel lengths, but with less than half the recoil, so sight picture is more like 5.56 where you can see your own hits, but it actually makes a loud noise when it hits, knocks plates down, and makes bigger holes in things. Fits in the AR-15.

127 factory loads for it that are all meant to work in gas guns, unlike a lot of .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor loads.

All right you have another convert. Do you mind that once I get my ship in order and start building my 6.5G that I reach out to you direct to ask about 6.5G parts as I'd rather not waste time and money learning the hard way?

SalomonQST99 · Jun 8, 2024

6 ARC would have my vote. All you need is an upper with a barrel and bolt. Everything else fits in the typical AR platform. The 6 ARC extends and outperforms the usefulness of the .223/5.56 cartridge where needed. Hope to see the brass cost and availability come down, but I feel it's a matter of time.

Camelfilter · Jun 8, 2024

-undeleted-

Does California still allow removable magazines? Or do you have to have some weird 10 rd fixed magazine contraption?

What would your realistic distance be from your folks home? Or your home, if you were to bunker up there?

reelserious · Jun 8, 2024

I had an ar 10 in 308 and it shot great out to 1000 yards and killed stuff just great. However my 6.8 weighs about half and kills stuff super well out to 300 yards about the same as 308 and is a pleasure to carry around so I ditched the 308 and have been real happy with decision

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

Camelfilter said:
Does California still allow removable magazines? Or do you have to have some weird 10 rd fixed magazine contraption?

What would your realistic distance be from your folks home? Or your home, if you were to bunker up there?

I have to go featureless (a weird abomination of half baked and fucked up work arounds) or run a fixed mag (compmag) that makes the gun unreliable and painfull to shoot and pisses off the RSO's since they have to be extra careful to make sure the gun is safe when calling a cold, safe range.

I had hopes that the Bruen decision would provide relief but the 9th Circus is ignoring it in the hopes that the Honorable Justice Clarence Thomas dies and that with a new Democratic SC justice they can go back to ignoring the Second Amendment.

Working distances would be halitosis range to 300ish yards where I am.

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

reelserious said:
I had an ar 10 in 308 and it shot great out to 1000 yards and killed stuff just great. However my 6.8 weighs about half and kills stuff super well out to 300 yards about the same as 308 and is a pleasure to carry around so I ditched the 308 and have been real happy with decision

I am leaning that way hard. I'll probably wait for 4th of July sales and try to stock up on parts for a 6.5G and will see how well it works for me. Perhaps some gently used Seekins SP10 parts will be on sale in the PX in the medium term future...

LRRPF52 · Jun 8, 2024

Franko said:
All right you have another convert. Do you mind that once I get my ship in order and start building my 6.5G that I reach out to you direct to ask about 6.5G parts as I'd rather not waste time and money learning the hard way?

Not at all, but I’ve covered the formula for reliability and accuracy many times over the years here.

Should be easy to find. If not, reach out for sure.

Are pistols still a thing in CA?

Franko · Jun 8, 2024

LRRPF52 said:
Not at all, but I’ve covered the formula for reliability and accuracy many times over the years here.

Should be easy to find. If not, reach out for sure.

Are pistols still a thing in CA?

Can't make new ones, the old ones had to be registered, and any that come in from out of state are outrageously expensive as you have to buy them from folks that know what they have and want their 5 or 6 pounds of flesh.

reelserious · Jun 8, 2024

One other consideration is this. An AR 10 platform is capable out to 1000 yards and should have a 1000 yard capable scope on it which is usually heavy. My 6.8 rifle has a Leupold 1-4 scope that is perfect to 300-400 yards. Huge field of view and clear glass no mirage and get this 8 OZ !!! This scope I feel would be inappropriate on an AR 10 but is perfect and saves so much weight over the bigger setup in an AR 15 frame

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What AR15 cartridge is a worthwhile step up from 5.56?

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