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I mean the cartridges will be longer than normal 175 ammo possibly because the 155 bullet is way too long for its weight. But where the ogive is on that 155 bullet is still a lot closer to the bullet base than with the 175 no? That's why you load them deeper, so you're not in the lands. But then you introduce a 175 into that chamber, and the 175 has the ogive much further up and closer to the tip, so you run into jamming issues. But the 175 is still overall shorter so I can see why the 155, even loaded deeper, could be at saami max or just a touch above.Judging by how close to the case mouth those marks are, the freebore is mighty small.
I have shot 155gr Scenars in a Palma 95 chamber. I still have a few thousand left. I do have to load them deeper than the Bergers to get a 0.020" jump, but my cartridges were still longer than SAAMI max. Theoretically SAAMI spec ammo should still fit without jam.
Finally able to run the M1A at 600 yards this morning with the 169 Sierra Machking and H4895. Decent 10 shot group, 6.5"
View attachment 8452261
Load data:Ok I will bite, what was the load under the 169? And a brief run down on the rifle? We like pictures!
Nice rifle. 43.0 grs sounds like a hot load from what I remember.
VV 140 is your best fit, it’s Uber close to 4064. Any of the 5 series are double based propellants while they have tons of energy but don’t do so well in the heat.With H 4895 being non existent , and the IMR powders 4895 & 4064 getting expensive, I'm starting to look at the VVN powders, epically N 140 , N150 & N540 . They all seam to produce close to the same velocity , about the only difference I see is that N540 costs more. I shoot both AR and bolt 308's.
I use N140 with 155gr, very accurate.VV 140 is your best fit, it’s Uber close to 4064. Any of the 5 series are double based propellants while they have tons of energy but don’t do so well in the heat.
Good luck with those primers.Whipped up 500 rounds today. 168 SMK, 41 grains of Varget, old Winchester WLR primers. Old once fired Winchester cases from the 90's. COAL 2.80. I've been using this loading for well over 20 years, just lacking the Varget since the start of covid. Today was charging and bullet seating on my 45 year old Rock Chucker.
View attachment 8468080
They go bang, never an issue. Been using them steadily in the last few years. Maybe I have 20 to 30k of them left.Good luck with those primers.
From what I hear, those older ones are more reliable than the newer.They go bang, never an issue. Been using them steadily in the last few years. Maybe I have 20 to 30k of them left.
Those old primers work just fine...I just ran 1100 of them 50 yrs old.From what I hear, those older ones are more reliable than the newer.
Ah yes, the old Payless stores where I used to buy a lot of shooting and fishing supplies.Those old primers work just fine...I just ran 1100 of them 50 yrs old.
$8.90 per thousand...
Less than a penny each standard or magnum.
Where might one procure these hybrid cases?For today's 308 Win loaded a bunch of these hybrid 208s and some 215 Bergers in hybrid cases ...51 and 50 gr of powder.
For a 9 twist 308 22" and a 30" 8 twist 308.
Sounds like a real barrel burner.For today's 308 Win loaded a bunch of these hybrid 208s and some 215 Bergers in hybrid cases ...51 and 50 gr of powder.
For a 9 twist 308 22" and a 30" 8 twist 308.
I bought 1500 cases early on...yrs ago then a few from time to time..a big investment.Where might one procure these hybrid cases?
It's a 308 ....I ran the LR Varget barrels to 8,000 rds., before chambering another barrel blank, with max loads, never concerned about barrel heat, until it interfered with seeing the target.Sounds like a real barrel burner.
Is this Saami spec ammo?Just got done doing the sharpie method. If this isn't a clear indication of kissing lands, then idk what is.
View attachment 8443221View attachment 8443222View attachment 8443223
There's 5 total marks of paint scratched off. Pretty sure this rifle has 5 lands lol. Although there is a very very nice and blended brake that won't let me see the muzzle end to verify that. I have no idea how to remove it without scratching it. There are no wrench flats.
What is a “hybrid case?” Do you have a “hybrid chamber?”For today's 308 Win loaded a bunch of these hybrid 208s and some 215 Bergers in hybrid cases ...51 and 50 gr of powder.
For a 9 twist 308 22" and a 30" 8 twist 308.
Is this Saami spec ammo?
are you single feeding it or putting it in a magazine? If it came from the factory it should be standard length, so I'm wondering why the scrape marks.It's factory ammo I bought online. Don't know if they load to saami spec. If I remember correctly, that was an American marksman round using their lake city brass with a 175.
I suppose I could try fgmm 168 since that's what I also have on hand or norma match 175s.
Need to get with the times...8 & 9 twists are old news, with long heavy bullets ...need to apply them to the 308 win case, along with hybrid cases for a little extra boost.What is a “hybrid case?” Do you have a “hybrid chamber?”
51 and 50gr of powder for 210gr bullets in .308Win? For 210gr bullets in .308Win the highest powder charge I’m reading in the Berger manual is 43.7gr of Win 760. What powder are you using?
I mean, you do you, but that seems seriously hot for .308Win; the pressures are probably exceeding 90-100k psi. Unless, of course, this “hybrid case/chamber” is really 30.06.
are you single feeding it or putting it in a magazine? If it came from the factory it should be standard length, so I'm wondering why the scrape marks.
Considering I was running a LA 300 WSM and struggled to get 2675 with a 22" barrel and the 225 ELD, are you getting this kind of velocity with a 30" plus barrel?Need to get with the times...8 & 9 twists are old news, with long heavy bullets ...need to apply them to the 308 win case, along with hybrid cases for a little extra boost.
Running this 9 twist 22" barrel at 2634 fps with hybrid cases, and the 208 Berger, about 65,000 psi according QL with the slight extra capacity of hybrid cases, which are rated to run at 80,000 psi.
Or 2740 fps with 200 gr SMK with Lapua cases or 2690 fps with Berger 200.2 gr.
Or 215 gr Berger 2600 fps. 230 SMK at 2550 fps is an excellent load in this 9 twist 22" barrel.
Most will be single load for LR in this rifle...but never fear the long action is available for the 308 if ya use a chassis and 3.4" cartridges, which can be feed from the mag. So 250 Atips can be fired from the 308 8 twist. But 230 Atips at 2620 or 225 ELDM at 2675 are a better fit for the 308 maximum effort loads without hybrid cases.
Unless ya want the 200 gr SMK 715 bc bullet at 2900 fps in a LA 8 twist 30" barrel. So the 308 case can be utilized to cover most any endevor, with added performance, depending on choices.
Or you can still use the old 168 gr with or without the hybrid cases, try some of the new powders, your choice, take it or leave it, it's just there, for those who care to know...or educational purposes.
Yes the 225 gr at 2672 average on this string was LA 30" Bartlein 5 R 308, with Lapua cases.Considering I was running a LA 300 WSM and struggled to get 2675 with a 22" barrel and the 225 ELD, are you getting this kind of velocity with a 30" plus barrel?
You should look at getting some 168 ELDs instead of 175s. The 168 ELD has a better BC.Does anyone have a CBO measurement of a 175 Sierra at a 2.800 OAL? I have a chamber set up for 168 Sierra's at 2.200 at that OAL jumping .010 so I'm wondering how the 175 compares before I buy some.
That 2.135 is for a factory 168 ELD load? I never had much luck with the 168 ELD in an M1A.You should look at getting some 168 ELDs instead of 175s. The 168 ELD has a better BC.
Factory ammo with 2.800” oal the base to ogive is 2.135 so you could load them a little longer but they don’t mind a jump.
That 2.135 is for a factory 168 ELD load? I never had much luck with the 168 ELD in an M1A.
Glad you brought that up, going to order some from SAC now that I'm thinking about it.Everyone needs to be careful with exchanging Ogive measurements (of any kind).
Why ?
Different manufacturers of comparators bore theirs differently. Example(s);
Hornady;
.214" (.223)
.233" (.243/6mm)
.296" (.308)
Short Action Customs;
.221" (.223)
.241" (.243/6mm)
.306" (.308)
And, I'd be willing to bet that no two comparator manufacturers bore theirs alike/identically.
A 0.007 to 0.010" bore diameter variation between just the example(s) above creates a significant variation in Ogive measurements.
Because of Short Action Customs consistency and being much closer to actual bullet diameter, I permanently retired (threw away) the Hornadys.
I'm pretty restricted on the OAL because of the magazine. 2.830 is about max and I have no interest in single feeding.Yes that is the factory ammo load info.
If you don’t want to use them then your choice but figured I would try and give you an option with a better BC if shooting them long.
I'm pretty restricted on the OAL because of the magazine. 2.830 is about max and I have no interest in single feeding.
Also, I am not saying that one manufacturer is "more accurate" than another. Ogive measurements are relative (to the tool you are using).Glad you brought that up, going to order some from SAC now that I'm thinking about it.
Sorry, I misread you post. Thought you you were talking about seating them out when you said shoot them long.You don’t have to single load them. I shoot those in my bolt gun to 1250 yards in matches and they are jumping about .060” if I remember correctly. The ELD don’t mind a jump. They don’t need to be close to the lands. If I load them I load them .020” off.
I've actually wanted to upgrade for a while since I have SAC's headspace comparators, but after seeing the disparity between the diameter measurements, I'm just going to switch everything over.Also, I am not saying that one manufacturer is "more accurate" than another. Ogive measurements are relative (to the tool you are using).
Were the Hornadys "inaccurate" ? No, not at all. But, both manufacturers inserts yielded different Ogive measurement results. I used the Hornadys for probably 20 years with good results.
I got rid of the Hornadys because the SAC product is (a lot) better made and I didn't want to have two sets around and potentially confuse measurements.