First AR15

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

Hi guys
Im in europe and its hard to chose one rifle. Im not able to try them out before i buy one. Neither can i hold or see one before i buy one, only thing i can do is watch youtube and ask you guys for a decent opinion. Thanks for help.
I am looking for my first and only ar15.
Iv set up a short list of some of my choices, money is not an issue.

Please share your opinion on my list

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

Do you care more about one aspect over others, like carrying it around or shooting further or something?

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

Honestly
We are not allowed to carry ar’s
It mainly for competition and plinking.
(But i want alao something that is durable because i can only have one rifle)

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

Competition where you're running around or sitting still? How far away are the targets?

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

Running around, 50 - 200meters (51 - 218 yards )

dbltap45acp · Sep 3, 2024

I personally would do the BCM with a mid length gas system and call it good. Add any uppers or mods you want later or little by little. Once you have the lower in hand you can buy other uppers down the line. 20” piston to run a can, easy enough. 11.5” SBR upper if allowed out there, and so on.

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

Are there any requirements for the barrel to be a certain length? Like for laws or something?

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

We are allowed to have 16’’ minimum lenght

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

So you can go shorter than 16" but not longer? That's interesting. You'll have a better time with something like 11.5" for running around but I don't know how many are available as a full gun from a manufacturer.

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

Sorry i ment 16’ is minimum lenght

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

Ok I wouldn't get anything longer than 16" because it's already pretty long for running around, and it's plenty long for 200M. I also recommend midlength gas over carbine. The Colt M4 is probably carbine length gas. The Radian is probably ambidextrous if that matters do you. The DI guns are probably lighter than the piston guns, except for the SCAR which is probably pretty light.

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

Yes sir
Im aware of that
But what would you reccon is the best choice from my list i made? All the guns from us are at least doubble the price here

ELCO82 · Sep 3, 2024

If you could only get one that Radian is excellent....

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

I only have personal experience with the Colt but because of the specs I think you're better off with something with midlength gas. Is there better customer support for any of those brands where you live?

ut755ln · Sep 3, 2024

2011Nomad said:
Hi guys
Im in europe and its hard to chose one rifle. Im not able to try them out before i buy one. Neither can i hold or see one before i buy one, only thing i can do is watch youtube and ask you guys for a decent opinion. Thanks for help.
I am looking for my first and only ar15.
Iv set up a short list of some of my choices, money is not an issue.

Please share your opinion on my list View attachment 8493423

I would go with something more local with easily obtainable parts, replacements, spares, ect. So HK, FN or Schmeisser

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

I was thinking the same thing
Right now we have two stores that import from usa and if they dissapear it will be an issue. Schmeisser is high on my list

higginsworksforme · Sep 3, 2024

Sako has an AR now as well. I don't know how their distribution is though.

LRRPF52 · Sep 3, 2024

I’ve used most of those on your list. Standard AR-15 parts are only proliferating, so it’s something to consider for staying with the TDP design. But Europe also has a lot of Hk416s in use among different armies. Not sure how the Hk MR223 parts supplies are though for the civilian market in Europe.

I personally don’t like the extra weight and imbalance of the Hk416 and MR223, but I do very much appreciate the fit/feel/finish and some of the design changes they made.

I wouldn’t trust a SCAR in the cold. I’ve seen a lot of polymers fail in the winters of Finland doing high-volume, multi-day courses there from 2005-2016, and SCAR polymers around the stock feel very flimsy to prone to cracking in -30˚.

For reliability, lightweight, and no-frills, the BCM Recce 16 MCMR would be my choice.

Do you plan on suppressing?

2011Nomad · Sep 3, 2024

Thank you for your time with a great answer, i will be doing supressed yes. And i am in the scandinavia so it will get cold, and yes i agree very much with you on that balance on the hk416 is shit! Pluss all 416s iv used hav alot play / gap between upper and lower. I think Schmeisser might be my gun or BCM

2011Nomad · Sep 10, 2024

Im currently standing between 3 rifles.
3 different price points and 3 difficult choices.
I Really hope i can get some help from you guys since its almost impossible to ask anyone for advice regardhing these rifles in my country

* BCM Recce 16" = 3200 USD
* Radian Mod 1 16" = 4600 USD
* DD4 R3 16" = 3900 USD

What are the biggest differences between those 3 ?
Is the BCM one most woth the money ?
I really love Radian looks and its parts but its expensive.
While DD has the best barrel of those 3 ?

Redlion · Sep 10, 2024

You can't go wrong with any of those 3. If money is not a concern get the Radian. If it is, get the BCM. I am pretty sure that you can access vids on each via Youtube, Rumble and other sites.

2011Nomad · Sep 10, 2024

all are affordable But how much more is the radian worth the price jump?
Is it That much better than BCM

ut755ln · Sep 10, 2024

2011Nomad said:
all are affordable But how much more is the radian worth the price jump?
Is it That much better than BCM

The Radian I owned did not perform in line with the pricing. I will freely admit that I do not care about ambi because I am not wrong handed. Of those three rifles, I would buy the BCM and use the money saved for spare parts and ammunition.

You asked about barrels, I had to re-barrel a DD MK18 at around 13 to 14k rounds because of throat erosion. I have not had a barrel hold the kind of accuracy I want much past 15k rounds.

2011Nomad · Sep 10, 2024

Thanks for sharing sir
Now if i would ask you honest question (since you obviously) have more experience than me, what would your rifle of choice be if you could only have one? (And your top 3)
Oh and im only allowed to have minimum 16’

Redlion · Sep 10, 2024

2011Nomad said:
Thanks for sharing sir
Now if i would ask you honest question (since you obviously) have more experience than me, what would your rifle of choice be if you could only have one? (And your top 3)
Oh and im only allowed to have minimum 16’

2011Nomad · Sep 11, 2024

Did i say something wrong?

S197 · Sep 11, 2024

2011Nomad said:
Im currently standing between 3 rifles.
3 different price points and 3 difficult choices.
I Really hope i can get some help from you guys since its almost impossible to ask anyone for advice regardhing these rifles in my country

* BCM Recce 16" = 3200 USD
* Radian Mod 1 16" = 4600 USD
* DD4 R3 16" = 3900 USD

What are the biggest differences between those 3 ?
Is the BCM one most woth the money ?
I really love Radian looks and its parts but its expensive.
While DD has the best barrel of those 3 ?

How much is the hk in your area? What other manufacturers do you have access to? Do you have barrel length restrictions?

2011Nomad · Sep 11, 2024

Yes sir we have minimum 16’ lenght.
Most common are HK223 , Schmeisser, JP , some few other i dont know about. HK over here cost 4200$. I have used HK the most and schmeisser some times, but. HK is very big and bulky rifle

S197 · Sep 11, 2024

2011Nomad said:
Thanks for sharing sir
Now if i would ask you honest question (since you obviously) have more experience than me, what would your rifle of choice be if you could only have one? (And your top 3)
Oh and im only allowed to have minimum 16’

Knights Armament
Lewis Machine & Tool
Would be my top two

S197 · Sep 11, 2024

2011Nomad said:
Yes sir we have minimum 16’ lenght.
Most common are HK223 , Schmeisser, JP , some few other i dont know about. HK over here cost 4200$. I have used HK the most and schmeisser some times, but. HK is very big and bulky rifle

With what you posted hk would be my choice, and I’m not an hk fan. Since you can only have one, I would buy one that can be beaten and if things fail, parts can be sourced locally.

2011Nomad · Sep 11, 2024

HK sure is verry reliable but i really dont like that compared to a DI rifle, i think schmeisser is a better choice since they are in germany and they are easy to contact. I sent mail to them and got answer right away, very helpfull company

HD1911 · Sep 11, 2024

SCAR 16 or DD gets my vote, from that list.

2011Nomad · Sep 11, 2024

Thank you sir
For me currently is either BCM R16 or DD

HD1911 · Sep 11, 2024

DD all day everyday over BCM.

DD manufactures their own product. BCM is an assembler.

DD have pinned gas blocks, BCM does not.

DD has superior customer service over BCM.

DD hammer forges their own barrels, and they flat out shoot.

I am speaking from direct personal experience over many years of extensively using both products.

I won’t even get into the guys over at BCM being complete lying shitbags.

diggler1833 · Sep 11, 2024

I own two DDM4V7s. Both have been 100%, and are as accurate with the optics I have on them as I'll ever be.

2011Nomad · Sep 11, 2024

Only problem is i would like v7 pro but its only 18’ not 16’. Other oprtion would be their R3 or M4A1 in 16’ with comp

TonyTheTiger · Sep 11, 2024

ut755ln said:
You asked about barrels, I had to re-barrel a DD MK18 at around 13 to 14k rounds because of throat erosion. I have not had a barrel hold the kind of accuracy I want much past 15k rounds.

In my experience any barrel beyond 10k is living on borrowed time. Maybe you could stretch this out shooting very slowly, but we're still talking about consumables here.

Charmingmander · Sep 13, 2024

TonyTheTiger said:
In my experience any barrel beyond 10k is living on borrowed time. Maybe you could stretch this out shooting very slowly, but we're still talking about consumables here.

People like to blather about barrel life but they don't shoot enough to worry about it in the first place.

Not to mention "oh no! I have to replace a barrel for $300 after shooting $8000 worth of ammo"

Always makes me chuckle. Like you said. Consumable product. I was just telling a friend of mine I don't plan on buying any more .308s because 6.5cm is basically the same price and hes like "muh barrel life".

Dude I'll have to shoot thousands of dollars worth before it matters. A barrel is cheap.

DeathBeforeDismount · Sep 13, 2024

HD1911 said:
DD all day everyday over BCM.

DD manufactures their own product. BCM is an assembler.

DD have pinned gas blocks, BCM does not.

DD has superior customer service over BCM.

DD hammer forges their own barrels, and they flat out shoot.

I am speaking from direct personal experience over many years of extensively using both products.

I won’t even get into the guys over at BCM being complete lying shitbags.

This is bullshit. Get educated.

DeathBeforeDismount · Sep 13, 2024

TonyTheTiger said:
In my experience any barrel beyond 10k is living on borrowed time. Maybe you could stretch this out shooting very slowly, but we're still talking about consumables here.

Exactly. Most commercial bolts are starting to fail around the 10-15K point, and much earlier ran harder.

Decent accuracy .223 Ammo is .75-1.25 a round. That's $7500-$18000 in ammo before you need to replace a $300 barrel. Complaining about that is like bitching you need to replace tires after 60K miles.

99% of the people posting here and bitching will never get an AR over 5K, much less 10-15-20-25K rounds down range. They shoot a couple hundred rounds a year and spend more time posting on instagram than actually shooting.

DeathBeforeDismount · Sep 13, 2024

2011Nomad said:
Hi guys
Im in europe and its hard to chose one rifle. Im not able to try them out before i buy one. Neither can i hold or see one before i buy one, only thing i can do is watch youtube and ask you guys for a decent opinion. Thanks for help.
I am looking for my first and only ar15.
Iv set up a short list of some of my choices, money is not an issue.

Please share your opinion on my list View attachment 8493423

You have alot of good options there and it would be hard to go wrong with any of them for intended purposes. Of the List BCM or DD would be my choice. I would see if you can source/import a Geissele super duty or GFR. Its a better gun for the money IMO and has alot of features/controls that make it the current gold standard. KAC would be another good one, but I doubt you could source one and price would be astronomical.

2011Nomad · Sep 13, 2024

thanks for input
As far as for now it seems i will go for either BCM Or DD R3

Redlion · Sep 13, 2024

2011Nomad said:
thanks for input
As far as for now it seems i will go for either BCM Or DD R3

Until tomorrow anyways.

hkguns · Sep 13, 2024

Flip a coin and get either the BCM or the DD. Both are solid rifles. DD may have better support channels in your neck of the woods, if that is a thing.

I own a lot of HK's and they are nice rifles, but for your stated use case, the MR is going to be a lot to lug around.

HD1911 · Sep 13, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
This is bullshit. Get educated.

You’re gonna call out my legit direct experience with both companies?

Feel free to debate them or call them bullshit, but it doesn’t change the truth.

DeathBeforeDismount · Sep 13, 2024

DD manufactures their own product. BCM is an assembler. ( Wrong. Both companies both have in house manufacturing and external suppliers, like almost every AR manufacture. BCM probably has some of the most stringent QA of any manufacture, and there are numerous stories and examples that result in them having some of the most true uppers you can buy (forged or billet) and all critical dimensions are exact.

DD have pinned gas blocks, BCM does not. (Who gives a shit. I have never heard of a BCM gas block coming loose in like 15 years of running their guns in classes. They are set screwed and threadlocked. I have installed hundreds if not thousands of gasblocks over the years...pinned, dimpled, pinned and dimpled, clamps. Tapered and straight pins. The method is much less important than quality and design.)

DD has superior customer service over BCM. (DD owner is a douchebag. I could tell you some strait up bullshit that came out of his mouth. Paul is first class)

DD hammer forges their own barrels, and they flat out shoot. (DD makes excellent barrels. So do many other manufactures. BCM barrels have always been quality. They are also significantly cheaper guns and uppers than DD. You get what you pay for)

I am speaking from direct personal experience over many years of extensively using both products. (I am speaking from from over 20 years of being an armorer, gunsmith, shooting them in a ton classes, building, fixing them in a warzone. I have owned and own examples of just about everything out there.

I won’t even get into the guys over at BCM being complete lying shitbags. (No idea what you are talking about)

I have heard some youtubers over the years bashing BCM for various reasons, Same as they do KAC, COLT, LMT, Geissele, JP and just about every other brand out there. First hand experience tells me they are one of the better companies out there and their parts and rifles (other than the first gen KMR with magnesium rails) are first rate.

RUTGERS95 · Sep 13, 2024

honestly, you're best option is the LMT given it's functionality, accuracy etc etc.. I am assuming you can buy different barrels so it's like you get different uppers.

MarshallDodge · Sep 14, 2024

If I could only own one, it would be the Daniel Defense. That is only because they have a nicer fit and finish. They are also very accurate for 5.56 barrels.

That said, I own and have been around a lot of BCM over the years, and all run very reliably.

2011Nomad · Sep 14, 2024

I might be able to get a extra good deal on DD that makes the price between DD & BCM almost the same , in that case i feel i get more bang for the buck if i get DD. They both will cost me around 3300$

RUTGERS95 · Sep 15, 2024

DD???? some of you like stepping onto the train

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