Thanks! It's 6.5 CM right now, it came with 24" 308 barrel which I have as a backup. My only minor gripes about the chassis are it not having an integral arca rail and the cheek riser interfering with bolt removal if it isn't folded. The lockup is rock solid though, not even the slightest play. All in all I think it's an amazing setup and am very happy with the purchase.
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16-18 inch shorty rifles
- Thread starter DrDeath
- Start date
It works fine for me, I've never really been super particular about balance as long as it feels good to get behind and shoot, which this does. It's currently sitting right around 15 lbs
16.5" 6mm creed carbon shorty....and the guy she told you not to worry about
Looks awesome. What’s the weight on it? I have one of these, having a 16.5” 6.5 PRC carbon fiber spun up for it by Mos-Tek, can’t wait. My only gripe is the bolt binds pretty bad for me but may go away once it break it in. Have you run into the binding issue?
Got out to the range really quick this morning headed to work. I needed to function test an AR I built, but had about 5 minutes to set this up and shoot it real quick. Boresite to a large rock at 100 yards, shot, missed, realized I didn’t account for height over bore, dialed around 2 mils, shot again, rock exploded. So she’s minute of rock right now with 143 ELD-X. Then I fired 5 rounds of 147 ELDM and chronographs that. Those were doing 2600-2650fps. Barrel had 50 rounds in it when I bought it, and I shot 8 rounds today just messing around. When I actually have time to go properly site in, set my scope, and shoot groups, I’ll get batter data, but just messing around that puts me about 45-95fps slower than Hornady 147gr ELDM 6.5CM per the box velocity at 24”. So I’m right under 24” creedmoor performance in a 16.5” PRC. Hope it speeds up a little. Hornady lists the same load for the PRC as 2910, which puts me 285fps slower than advertised 24” velocity, so a loss of 38fps per inch. I’m thinking for factory ammo, maybe an 18” might be a better option to match 24” creedmoor with factory ammo. I don’t reload, wish I did. Hopefully it speeds up a little once broken in. This is my first experience with the 6.5 PRC but my initial thought is I love it. Off the tripod suppressed there’s like 0 recoil. Reminds me of my Tikka Tac A1 18” 6.5 CM.
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Dude, that paint job is tits. Who did it.
All my rifles need to be that way from now on, I can't unsee it lol.
Bought it from Altus, but they use customguncoatings.com, they are magical with cerakote.
Debating on which cartridge to build a low recoil shorty. We have a 1000y range and a good amount of 6.5cm and larger caliber rifles. Application for this rifle will be different. The goal is to shoot TINY groups on papers and to put rounds on steels out to 700y. Balance is important as most of the shooting is positionally. Here is my thinking:
223: Reloading the smaller case brass is a bit of a chore.
6 ARC, 22 ARC: Lack of quality brass, only Hornady and Starline available.
6.5G: Norma brass avail. Slow but the 100g VT (meh bc) is out there.
6BR/Dasher: More recoil. Plenty of reloading components avail.
22GT/CM: Short barrel life. I would like to get 2k or more out of a barrel.
Help me get this right? What am I missing? What am I wrong with?
(Pic: 18in Impact 6.5cm in a AT-X AICS chassis)
223: Reloading the smaller case brass is a bit of a chore.
6 ARC, 22 ARC: Lack of quality brass, only Hornady and Starline available.
6.5G: Norma brass avail. Slow but the 100g VT (meh bc) is out there.
6BR/Dasher: More recoil. Plenty of reloading components avail.
22GT/CM: Short barrel life. I would like to get 2k or more out of a barrel.
Help me get this right? What am I missing? What am I wrong with?
(Pic: 18in Impact 6.5cm in a AT-X AICS chassis)
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Thanks for the suggestion. I should have mentioned. I had 22gt on the list but crossed it off. I know some of you are getting decent barrel life out of them but my friend got 1100 rds out of each of his last 2 barrels. I shoot way too much to deal with new barrel every couple of month so 22gt and 22 creed are both out for me.
@MxTexas I recently built a 16” 22br, slowly working on getting a load worked up for it but love the form factor.
I went 22br due to state requiring 22 cal for predator hunting during big game season, otherwise I might have gone 6br/dasher.
I hit pressure around 2800fps with 88eldms so I backed it down to 2750 which happens to exactly match my 26” 223 match rifle.
Got its first blood over the last couple weeks. Possum, 2 recovered pigs and 1 that my amigo hit in the guts and we were unable to find. The 88’s are pretty nasty.
Another cool option is the 223ai with 75’s, I don’t have my data but I think my old tikka was running 75eldms around 2650 out of a 16” 223ai. I could be off on the numbers but benefits of super cheap brass, bullets, barrel life, sips powder.
Sounds like this is just for fun and what’s more fun than a 223 that’s cheap, lasts forever and has no recoil. 700 would be plenty doable but a little more challenging.
I went 22br due to state requiring 22 cal for predator hunting during big game season, otherwise I might have gone 6br/dasher.
I hit pressure around 2800fps with 88eldms so I backed it down to 2750 which happens to exactly match my 26” 223 match rifle.
Got its first blood over the last couple weeks. Possum, 2 recovered pigs and 1 that my amigo hit in the guts and we were unable to find. The 88’s are pretty nasty.
Another cool option is the 223ai with 75’s, I don’t have my data but I think my old tikka was running 75eldms around 2650 out of a 16” 223ai. I could be off on the numbers but benefits of super cheap brass, bullets, barrel life, sips powder.
Sounds like this is just for fun and what’s more fun than a 223 that’s cheap, lasts forever and has no recoil. 700 would be plenty doable but a little more challenging.
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Starline isn’t quality brass? I mean it’s not Lapua or ADG, but it’s pretty good brass.
Im running starline in my 223ai and it has been just as good as lapua so far and a fraction of the price.
Once my batch of lapua wears out I bought 2k starline to replace it with.
Once my batch of lapua wears out I bought 2k starline to replace it with.
Br/dasher but you could do a 22 version as well. I imagine a 22br going 2k rounds at least, a 22 dasher 2k as well if you don’t torch it out with super long strings
6 dasher is rarely the wrong answer though
My 22br experience is anecdotal, I use a 22creed which def recoils more than my 6 dasher
I did not have to turn necks for my 22br using alpha or lapua brass. From my research there are tight neck reamers that you need to turn necks and no turn reamers.
I specified with @FisherT&C i didn’t want to turn necks and he delivered!
I specified with @FisherT&C i didn’t want to turn necks and he delivered!
224 Valkyrie? 6.5 Grendel? I think I was listening to a podcast where they talked about 224V having really good barrel life. Does that sound right?
This is the shorty rifles build so idk if you meant to ask about what good cartridge to go out to 1000 yards because you want it short.
The grendel in a longer 24" or 26" bolt gun allowing to load long will get you speed with 123smk or 130 AR hybrids or 130smk. The 100eldVT might even be an option.
I've pushed 120s with varget to about 2540 with a 20" barrel and 120s to 2640 using TAC on that same 20" bolt gun. I was running starline brass and never had flat primers or pressure signs. Not saying it wasn't over pressure, just that I didn't see any signs.
If wanting to keep it a short, a 20" 6 arc should be nice. A 22BRA should be really good too. Anything BR variant in 6 or 22 should work out good.
The grendel in a longer 24" or 26" bolt gun allowing to load long will get you speed with 123smk or 130 AR hybrids or 130smk. The 100eldVT might even be an option.
I've pushed 120s with varget to about 2540 with a 20" barrel and 120s to 2640 using TAC on that same 20" bolt gun. I was running starline brass and never had flat primers or pressure signs. Not saying it wasn't over pressure, just that I didn't see any signs.
If wanting to keep it a short, a 20" 6 arc should be nice. A 22BRA should be really good too. Anything BR variant in 6 or 22 should work out good.
I know that we're looking at 3 different catridges, each with different powder, powder charge, bullet, rifle weight, etc. How would you compare the recoil in the 223AI vs 22BR vs 6Dasher, given that everything is similar?
Have you seen the MDT video where they did the recoil comparison? I did some calculation then I validate with what I have and I get something like this to look at recoil:
(1) 12lb DMR AR 18in shooting 77g at 2750fps has 5.1in of recoil.
(2) 18lb DMR AR 18in shooting 77g at 2750fps has 3.5in of recoil.
(3) 18lb 22in 6 Dasher shooting 108g at 2800fps has 7.6in of recoil.
(4) 18lb 22in 6.5cm shooting 130g at 2850fps has 11.3in of recoil.
(5) 18lb 22in 6.5PRC shooting147g at 2940fps hs 17.3in of recoil.
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I unfortunately don’t have a great comparison.
My 16” 22br is carbon proof barrel, magnesium XLR chassis. I believe it weighs 9#s
My 16” 223ai was a heavy varmint steel barrel in a krg bravo and then XLR ENVY. I don’t remember what it weighed but it was atleast 12#s
And my 6 dasher is a proof comp contour in a weighted xlr envy pro and is over 20#s
I would say my 223ai was similar recoil to my 6 dasher and the 22br was probably about the same recoil as my old 15-16# 6.5x47. This is just off memory since I never shot them back to back focusing on recoil differences.
I will say the most fun rifles I have are the 223s. With a longer throat and hand loading my 26” 223 basically mirrored my 6br out to 1k, was cheaper to shoot and no recoil. I sold my 6BR after building my first 223.
If I wasn’t chasing performance for hunting I would have gone 16” 223 or 223ai instead of the 22br. For having fun and blasting steel I think it is really hard to go wrong with the 223.
My 16” 22br is carbon proof barrel, magnesium XLR chassis. I believe it weighs 9#s
My 16” 223ai was a heavy varmint steel barrel in a krg bravo and then XLR ENVY. I don’t remember what it weighed but it was atleast 12#s
And my 6 dasher is a proof comp contour in a weighted xlr envy pro and is over 20#s
I would say my 223ai was similar recoil to my 6 dasher and the 22br was probably about the same recoil as my old 15-16# 6.5x47. This is just off memory since I never shot them back to back focusing on recoil differences.
I will say the most fun rifles I have are the 223s. With a longer throat and hand loading my 26” 223 basically mirrored my 6br out to 1k, was cheaper to shoot and no recoil. I sold my 6BR after building my first 223.
If I wasn’t chasing performance for hunting I would have gone 16” 223 or 223ai instead of the 22br. For having fun and blasting steel I think it is really hard to go wrong with the 223.
This feedback is super useful, thanks man. Can the 223AI produces tiny groups with hand loads like the BR/Dasher?
My 16” 223ai barrel was pretty worn out when I had it cut back to 16” so it wasn’t super accurate. 3/4-1moa
My current 223ai is a 22” and it is very accurate. Easy sub 1/2moa using 53vmax. Its my prarie dog rifle.
My 26” 223 match rifle is a proof comp contour and is around 1/2 moa or slightly more with 88 eldms. I haven’t spent much time developing a load for it yet since its working good enough and I have other projects going.
My dasher has a proof comp and runs 112 Match burners and is constantly under 1/2 moa as well.
I think it depends on the day which one is most accurate.
I would like to admit I am not. Great group shooter and don’t spend endless time finding the absolute best load possible. Once I hit 1/2 moa I basically call it quits. Usually don’t mess with seating depth. Only do a powder charge test and then let it rock and roll.
I really doubt you will be disappointed with a 223/223ai. If you’re shooting as much as you say you really need to try out a 223. Fun, cheap, and plenty accurate for steel.
My current 223ai is a 22” and it is very accurate. Easy sub 1/2moa using 53vmax. Its my prarie dog rifle.
My 26” 223 match rifle is a proof comp contour and is around 1/2 moa or slightly more with 88 eldms. I haven’t spent much time developing a load for it yet since its working good enough and I have other projects going.
My dasher has a proof comp and runs 112 Match burners and is constantly under 1/2 moa as well.
I think it depends on the day which one is most accurate.
I would like to admit I am not. Great group shooter and don’t spend endless time finding the absolute best load possible. Once I hit 1/2 moa I basically call it quits. Usually don’t mess with seating depth. Only do a powder charge test and then let it rock and roll.
I really doubt you will be disappointed with a 223/223ai. If you’re shooting as much as you say you really need to try out a 223. Fun, cheap, and plenty accurate for steel.
I guess defining long range with a short barrel would help.
I have a 16” 6mm ARC gas gun, and inside of 600 yards (longest I’ve shot this rifle and combo) with a 105 BTHP @2,550 FPS a deer or man sized target is a definite hit.
As long as you’re dialing anyway, I don’t see a drawback to a short barrel inside of 600, maybe out to 1,000 if you’re good with doping wind.
I have a 16” 6mm ARC gas gun, and inside of 600 yards (longest I’ve shot this rifle and combo) with a 105 BTHP @2,550 FPS a deer or man sized target is a definite hit.
As long as you’re dialing anyway, I don’t see a drawback to a short barrel inside of 600, maybe out to 1,000 if you’re good with doping wind.
Back on the shorty train....
Aero solus and snagged a deal on a 22in barrel here so sent it out to get cut down to 16.5in 6.5cm
My stock isnt in yet soooo threw it in the wifes pink splatter manners tcs
Aero solus and snagged a deal on a 22in barrel here so sent it out to get cut down to 16.5in 6.5cm
My stock isnt in yet soooo threw it in the wifes pink splatter manners tcs
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Thanks! It's right around 15 lbs right now. I've run into the bolt binding if I apply any upward pressure while cycling which I understand is a consequence of the full diameter bolt body. It also hangs up if I fully insert the mag with the bolt open but I haven't messed with adjusting the catch yet. If that doesn't work I might 3d print some sort of solution to limit the magazine insertion. Overall though I absolutely love the rifle and Seekins is a great company staffed by great folks.
Huge 223ai fan as well. You can shoot normal 223 loads in the ai chamber with no issues. There's no downside to it imo
Accuracy in my Krieger 8 twist is sub half minute as well. I call it quits once it hit half moa too. I'd rather shoot more than tweak and measure and record load variations etc
So I got some weights on mine for those curious.
Rifle w/ barrel removed, no optics, Seekins ARCA rail and NV Bridge - 7lbs 6.2oz
Factory 24” 6.5cm Barrel w/ A419 Hellfire Match - 5lb 11oz
Factory 24” 308 Barrel w/ A419 Hellfire Match - 5lb 10oz
Burris XTR Pro in a 1.18” 34mm Seekins HIT Mount with level and dive board - 2lb 14.8oz
Vortex Impact 4000 - 1lb 0.8oz
SiCo Omega 300 w/ A419 Hellfire Adapter - 14.4oz
Total Rifle Weight as configured above - ~20.5lb.
I have a 16.5” 6.5PRC Carbon Fiber M24 profile barrel on order for it. I’m hoping it weighs in around 2.5lb. That would put it at 10.39lbs rifle with A419 brake. Depending on the scope setup, it would be possible to get this thing right at 12lbs I would think. With suppressor more like 13lbs.
As already stated, the folding stock lockup is very tight. Only issue I have with mine is the bolt binding.
I recently contacted Seekins about getting an inlet model so I could get a stock made, and I was told they don’t have it but would have it in a month or two. They also stated that keep an eye out, they have some new things coming up related to the HIT in the next few months. They didn’t say what, but they hinted it had to do with my request, and I got the impression that means they are working on some stock options or someone else will be releasing stocks inlet for the HIT.
Oh, nice! I got mine when they were still relatively new and didn't realize at the time that the HIT didn't share the R700 inlet as the regular Havok. Making a nice wood stock for it to use during hunting season has been on my project list for a while so it's nice to know that Seekins is working on getting the inlet info out there. Coming from a CAD professional I find it odd that they say the model is a couple months out considering they had to model it to produce it, but maybe they're packaging it as an actual aftermarket model to be used as you stated. Either way, I'm looking forward to more being available for the platform.
I am a big fan of 223AI. I can push 80gr ELD bullets to over 2800 fps out of an 18” barrel with Varget or similar powders. It is great to 600-800 yards. Much harder to spot splashes of misses at 700+ just based on the size of the bullet compared to a 6.5CM or similar, so that is the one downside.
Reading between the lines from the guy I spoke to made it sound like, they do have the inlet model for their use, but dont want it out there until they release whatever it is they plan to release. Think if they gave it to someone like me who asked, and I shared it with a stock company (McMillan, Manners, Grayboe, KRG, MDT, Etc...) and one of those companies made the HIT one of their inlet options before Seekins released theirs. I've thought about pulling it apart and modeling it myself then machine a 1 off backbone for say a KRG Bravo that will except the action and the Bravo plastics. Its flat bottom with essentiall a female slot for a recoil lug. Its like a hybrid between an R700, a Tikka and/or a Howa. I have a Tikka Bravo laying around to compare it to. The KRG Backbone seems easy enough to machine. If I get some time I may model it and see if I can make a print and make one, I would really like to put the HIT into a KRG Bravo.
Now this is just my brain gaming out what Seekins may have coming, but if you look at Grayboe's website, they have a new "CHASSIS" stock coming soon call the "Core", I wonder if maybe there's a collab there. Dont really have any info to back that up, just a feeling. Its KRG Bravo-esque by what they posted.
I bought my HIT because I really like their QC barrel system and had hopes of finding a different stock. I want to drop the HIT action into a KRG Bravo, with a 3-18 optic with a dive board and have a slew of shorty barrels for it, couple full length barrels, and a couple optics setups. Swap everything around at the range / in the field, rezero and be good to go. Ideally, id like a handful of CF barrels (5) in an XM3ish contour at 18.5", chambered in 308/6.5cm/6.5prc/22cm/300wsm with Griffin PSR OTB muzzle brakes, and a Griffin PSR 7 OTB suppressor (I have the PSR 5 its awesome, but 22 cal only, the PSR 7 is the 30cal). Also keep a couple 24" barrels, like a 308 and a 6.5 creed. Reasoning for my cartridge choices is, 308s for those times when ammo is scarce/SHTF, its the most commonly available of those listed, 308 also for subsonic suppressed. 6.5cm because for me, its my cartridge of choice for general purpose use. 6.5 PRC because I have 2 already and love the cartridge, i think for an all around chambering that can work on small stuff up to elk (within reasonable distance and shot placement) its the best all round hunting chambering right now (for the things I hunt), the 300wsm because I think a shorty XM3ish rifle in 300wsm would be bad@$$, and 22creed just because I think it would make a sweet groudhog rifle and my kids could shoot it. I wouldnt buy all the barrels at once, but when I wanted to try something else, all I need is a barrel spun up for it. Put it in a nice case with cutouts for all the barrels/optics/accessories.
Only other issue with the HIT besides bolt bind I had is the aluminum bolt body and bolt handle/knob. I wish it was all DLC or nitride steel. I think it would be smoother if it was, and a steel bolt handle and knob would add some mass for cycling the bolt so it wouldnt feel like trying to throw a wiffle ball with all your strength, lol I ordered the A419 adapter and a ARC ball knob 5/16-24 to put on it.
Has anyone tried N140 in a 6mm creedmoor shorty? I’m struggling to get velocity or decent obturation. I was thinking I should try a faster powder.
Out of a 16" barrel, I was getting between 2550-2620fps with 140 ELDMs and H4350.
I'm not sure what you are seeing for speed but I don't know if it's realistic to getting too much above that.
6mm not 6.5 my friend. Thank you anyway.
To add, that’s not shabby velocity. Unfortunately 4350 is unobtainable in the U.K.
Oh damn, sorry I missed the caliber!
Love the UK. We really enjoy visiting the Isle of Skye. We did the West Highland Way a few years ago.
So ive got a bit of a choice to make
Currently have an blue and black night stalker on order no real eta maybe oct but who knows
Or can save a lil cash and grab a back in black lrh now
Obviously im partial to the blue
Gun is going for coyote and is the 16in action that Currently riding in the pink tcs (wifes/next excuse for a build)
Thoughts? And yeah im a manners whore
Currently have an blue and black night stalker on order no real eta maybe oct but who knows
Or can save a lil cash and grab a back in black lrh now
Obviously im partial to the blue
Gun is going for coyote and is the 16in action that Currently riding in the pink tcs (wifes/next excuse for a build)
Thoughts? And yeah im a manners whore
What bullets?
What loads have you tried?
Looks like N140 is among the "fast" powders, as recommended by Vihtavuori for 6mm Creedmoor.
What powders are y’all using for short 6.5cm?
I’ve spent months trying to use Varget on my 16.5” Bartlein and only can average 1 MOA. SD is single digit and ES is under 20. 39.5gr gives me 3700fps but always has horizontal stringing. Tried 6 different seating depths and no dice.
But SuperFormance seems to be much more accurate. Found two loads that average 0.5MOA at 2450fps and 2650fps. It’s extremely dirty with the suppressor though. No horizontal stringing.
I’ve spent months trying to use Varget on my 16.5” Bartlein and only can average 1 MOA. SD is single digit and ES is under 20. 39.5gr gives me 3700fps but always has horizontal stringing. Tried 6 different seating depths and no dice.
But SuperFormance seems to be much more accurate. Found two loads that average 0.5MOA at 2450fps and 2650fps. It’s extremely dirty with the suppressor though. No horizontal stringing.
Why not use H4350? I ran 42gr behind a 140ELDM in Hornady brass and was getting just under 2650 with mid-teens for an SD and then 41gr in Starline brass with the same bullet and got 2550fps. Both loads were for an SP10 and an ATX that I had tossed into my 16” 6.5CM. Anything close to 2600fps with a 16” barrel should be reasonable given how short the barrel is. My 22” SP10 with the 42gr in Hornady brass is giving me 2690fps for perspective.
Couldn’t find any locally and I’m mostly using 130gr and lighter bullets. Knew that h4350 did great on heavier bullets.
Guess I will revisit the SuperFormance and see if I can get some decent groups without the unburned powder. Think I’ve been chasing velocity too much and it’s just not possible to safely do in a 6.5cm.
If that doesn’t work then I will get some N555 and try it. Really thought the lack of accuracy with Varget was 100% my fault. Only thing I will try different is stop using front bags as rear bags.
87gr V-max
I’ve tried N150 I got to top viht load with poor obturation
RS62 42.7gr only 2700fps grea lt accurate load but I was hoping to get 3000fps
My barrel is a bit longer than 18” allowed on the shorty thread… but still short for a 6mm creedmoor
Not sure what bullet you are using, or your target game animal... I would assume 140's given your Superformance velocities?
An awesome load for shorties is the 95 VMax over 8208 XBR (if you were able to get in on the recent shipment of 8208 that was available). 39.8 gr generates 3150 from a 22" barrel, and should stay around ~3000 fps from a shorter barrel.
