USGOV banning Killflashes due to possible national security issues

E. Bryant · Sep 13, 2024

Milf Dots said:
People like you are the proverbial "cancer in the American Patriots' locker room" because you don't differentiate between good Repubs and RINOs, and that gives cover to Dems, of which NONE are "good". You're just another whining Karen.

In general, politicians suck but they're necessary to any system of government, and to act like the bumpstock mistake by Trump somehow erases all of the great things he did and attempted to do, is juvenile and self serving. Our best shot at a political solution is Trump. But feel free to personally start the revolution.

Because you chose to post that stupid shit about Rs in an otherwise informative post, I'll be sure to never buy any of your products.

Now fuck off to your Skamala Harris meeting.

Show me one of your "real" Republicans who is working to broadly roll back the sort of onerous regulation being discussed, such as (but not limited to) 22 U.S.C. 2778 (Arms Export Control Act, commonly referred to as ITAR).

The only time you'll find politicians of any stripe pushing for limited roll-backs is when they want to personally benefit from the sale and export of defense articles to "allies" such as Turkey or Saudi Arabia.

E. Bryant · Sep 13, 2024

Baron23 said:
Yeah, my question too...what is diff about Covert Arms ARDs?

I do believe there is a difference on how AECA is applied to physical goods vs. virtual information.

Baron23 · Sep 13, 2024

E. Bryant said:
I do believe there is a difference on how AECA is applied to physical goods vs. virtual information.

Ah, what virtual information. We are talking about a simple ARD, are we not?

And Covert pulled all listings on their site for…the ARD hardware.

I still don’t get it….but I ride the short bus to school so….lol

akmike47 · Sep 13, 2024

I hope they don’t find out about tape next

If they really gave a shit they’d leak the STL files, but some kid could whip that up in an evening.

NoDopes · Sep 13, 2024

What about chevron difference that got overturned by the SC? They can't just make up laws like this.

ggmanning · Sep 13, 2024

How are they going to outlaw a handfull of grass veg?

hlee · Sep 13, 2024

ggmanning said:
How are they going to outlaw a handfull of grass veg?

You just ripped up a tuft of endangered grass...

rdinak · Sep 13, 2024

Panic buying ahead

camocorvette · Sep 13, 2024

Fjb, fatf, ffbi, fdod, fdoj

Walmarts got that good good.

_Windrider_ · Sep 13, 2024

They better ban 3D printers then

akmike47 · Sep 13, 2024

rdinak said:
Panic buying ahead

Why? Its not anything special

akmike47 · Sep 13, 2024

hlee said:
You just ripped up a tuft of endangered grass...

Stop ripping at my pubes

hlee · Sep 13, 2024

akmike47 said:
Why? Its not anything special

THE GUBMIT'S GONNA BAN 'EM ALL!!!

akmike47 · Sep 13, 2024

hlee said:
THE GUBMIT'S GONNA BAN 'EM ALL!!!

I’d rather just borrow your fishnet stockings

sneakypayload · Sep 13, 2024

NoDopes said:
What about chevron difference that got overturned by the SC? They can't just make up laws like this.

It’s clearly not a made up law if it’s codified. Not saying it’s right nor wrong, but it references specific statute.

thejeep · Sep 13, 2024

BurtG said:
Maybe / probably defeats that new scope finding AI system they have been fielding

Makes not to keep netting and rubber bands around for. Things

Make one for the scope too. Take that AI

BurtG · Sep 13, 2024

Detection System Detects Rifle Scopes, Binoculars

TAMPA — A San Diego-based small business called Torrey Pines Logic displayed a small, mobile optical detection system at the Special Operations Forces Industry Conference here. It emits a laser pulse to detect nearby surveillance gear such as cameras, rifle scopes or various observation lenses...

www.snipershide.com

dino67 · Sep 13, 2024

Must have been the same technology/secret cloaking device Crooks used to evade and defeat multiple layers of security and agencies and get shots off.

No wonder they don't want the public to have access! lol

sirhrmechanic · Sep 13, 2024

softcock said:
Fieldcraft - killflash/pantyhose question

has anybody ever heard of streching pantyhose over the scope lens as an improvised killflash

www.snipershide.com

Yes. That was how it was done before fancy kill flashes were sold!

Sirhr

cas6969 · Sep 13, 2024

sneakypayload said:
The THOT PLICKENS:

View attachment 8500750

This makes me think perhaps your normal killflash or DIY stuff may work for the naked eye, but it's not fooling the guvments fancy electronical "I see you" gear.

papershredder · Sep 13, 2024

If this is a marketing ploy, they get points for creativity for sure. The only two online sites I found them to purchase from took them down. What's interesting is if the DOJ, DOD or any of the other Def. Depts. determined an invention to be a national security risk, rescinding patents through the patent office is the path they would take to get it out of the market. (The U.S. code highlighted in red and link to the law code below picture)

35 USC 181 link

It might be possible that there is something about these ARD's that defeats the latest detection tech. If @Docsherm would be so kind to post a few pictures of one the Covert Arms/Defense Distributer ARD's from different angles so we can all see for ourselves if there really is any difference to these compared to other ARD's.

If the DOD really did have Covert Arm's patent put on hold, it could take a year or better before these can be put on the market. But in the mean time, for those of us who just like tacti-cool shit, I wonder if @CSTactical can call ATI and see about a group buy for these:
Laser Filters

BurtG · Sep 13, 2024

NoDopes said:
What about chevron difference that got overturned by the SC? They can't just make up laws like this.

They can they just can be challenged in court now.

So more bs. They spend tax payer dollars to infringe and defend. We have to donate to fight the bs

Rthur · Sep 13, 2024

I foresee lawyers making money again.

R

BLEE · Sep 13, 2024

Make your own and f'em and feed'em fish heads.

SilentStalkr · Sep 14, 2024

BurtG said:
They can they just can be challenged in court now.

So more bs. They spend tax payer dollars to infringe and defend. We have to donate to fight the bs

Yeah that shit should be outlawed itself. After something is settled in court there should be a timeframe that one has to wait before the same or similar stuff can go back to court. I grow tired of getting taxed to have my rights taken and then taxed again to pay groups to fight to try and keep them or get them back all because of stupid bullshit laws. Would be nice if everyone just said fuck all the stupid shit and do what you want. Guess we will be banning all kinds of special fabrics that can also defeat all the shit the ARD stuff does.

JoshPutman · Sep 14, 2024

Don't need that shit if you run irons.

BurtG · Sep 14, 2024

SilentStalkr · Sep 14, 2024

JoshPutman said:
Don't need that shit if you run irons.

Apparently you don’t need much of anything, just exceptional ninja skills crawling across a roof with gun and a ladder to get up there, totally unnoticeable. I mean come on…

jabonra · Sep 14, 2024

hlee said:
There is something in that patent application, beyond a kill flash, that the govt wants to keep secret. This does not say that ALL ARDs are affected. It is just this one patent, which is incorporated into their ARD.

I wouldnt be suprised if it were something mundane like novel geometry that defeats their spooky optic detection methods effectively.

I doubt they are worried about external threats, but they cant unring the assassination attempt bell so they dont want to risk someone competent glassing a politician they actually care about.

Docsherm · Sep 18, 2024

papershredder said:
If this is a marketing ploy, they get points for creativity for sure. The only two online sites I found them to purchase from took them down. What's interesting is if the DOJ, DOD or any of the other Def. Depts. determined an invention to be a national security risk, rescinding patents through the patent office is the path they would take to get it out of the market. (The U.S. code highlighted in red and link to the law code below picture)

View attachment 8501104

35 USC 181 link

It might be possible that there is something about these ARD's that defeats the latest detection tech. If @Docsherm would be so kind to post a few pictures of one the Covert Arms/Defense Distributer ARD's from different angles so we can all see for ourselves if there really is any difference to these compared to other ARD's.

If the DOD really did have Covert Arm's patent put on hold, it could take a year or better before these can be put on the market. But in the mean time, for those of us who just like tacti-cool shit, I wonder if @CSTactical can call ATI and see about a group buy for these:
Laser Filters

Here are the pictures. Theirs is the FDE one and the other is One Hundred Concepts.

00-qY7I4uVR1_b1rQSxVxKNIHDibaIXo-TeKnKKnHG9n4YtxOyba0gffSaP3NyWT7lRrnHjCyIZu59oV2we_kMG9A

papershredder · Sep 18, 2024

Docsherm said:
Here are the pictures. Theirs is the FDE one and the other is One Hundred Concepts.

Thanks!

jabonra said:
I wouldnt be suprised if it were something mundane like novel geometry that defeats their spooky optic detection methods effectively.

^^^That^^^ and I wouldn't be surprised if rubber bands and pantyhose could as well.

MK20 · Sep 18, 2024

Docsherm said:
Here are the pictures. Theirs is the FDE one and the other is One Hundred Concepts.

Thanks.

Any difference to your eye other than the honeycomb being smaller?

Docsherm · Sep 18, 2024

MK20 said:
Thanks.

Any difference to your eye other than the honeycomb being smaller?

None..... only difference is that it looks and feels like the quality is not as good as One Hundred Concepts.

jabonra · Sep 19, 2024

It's hard to tell from the pic but is the print really rough and bumpy looking? It reminds me of the PTR suppressors and their "purposely induced porosity", if you can make it a shit show labyrinth of surface area and ridges it will likely swallow up a greater percentage of the photons reflecting back off of the objective

CatDad · Sep 19, 2024

I created an account here, because my usual forum(s) aren't discussing it and I have something to contribute.

The U.S. military is using the LTLM II (Laser Target Locator Module) for optics detection in the battlefield. The LTLM II (Laser Target Locator Module, manufactured by Safron Optics) emits "eye safe" infrared laser pulses (which would put it in the 1400nm - 1550nm LWIR wavelength) and processes the returned signals to detect the internal reflections of scopes/binoculars/etc. It would not surprise me that the Covert Arms ARD products were tested using the currently fielded LTLM II and performed far better than they would like, which led to the secrecy order being sent.

Looking at images, it's clear the Covert Arms anti-reflection devices use a smaller hexagon pattern than typical ARD's. They also have a very rough surface texture, which I suspect is a side-effect (a good one in this case) of powder deposition 3D printing process (ie: SLS, or DMLS using nylon).

On a cached view of the Covert Arms website, I saw them mention their ARD's also have an anti-reflective coating. I would put money that they dipped them in a thinned light-absorbing paint .. one containing carbon-nanotubes would work best (such as VantaBlack, Singularity, etc), since they have tend to have excellent infrared absorbing properties.

Whichever coating they used must've been capable of absorbing far-infrared light emitted by the LTLM II laser.

Someone from Covert Arms mentioned that their design has a couple of extra tweaks in their design, which led to the govt. secrecy ban. We know they're coated, so there must be something else the competition does not do...

Since they appear to be 3D printed, the design could also incorporate internal geometry within each hexagonal tube. This could be a sawtooth type pattern, just like that found on the inside of quality optics to reduce glare. With 3D printing the sawtooth pattern could be taken beyond 90-degrees, resulting in the forward-facing angle directing the remaining light towards more light-absorbing coating (instead of outwards).

I realize this is a lot of supposition, but it's based on information from the company, published data, years of experience in image-analysis and 3D modelling, and an interest in engineering.

E. Bryant · Sep 19, 2024

Gotta say, that's a welcome change from the typical Hide newbie first post.

higginsworksforme · Sep 19, 2024

BRB printing ARD for my drone cameras.

hlee · Sep 19, 2024

So, now we need someone with an IR illuminator, NODS, and a few diff ARDs/killflashes do a test and report the results…

hlee · Sep 19, 2024

It should also be noted that not granting a patent does not make something illegal to sell. Rescinding a patent just removes the partial monopoly that the govt grants when it issues a patent. There are tons of goods that are not patented that are sold every day. In fact, it is often seen as a corporate strategy to NOT patent key inventions. A “trade secret” cannot be patented, as publication of the secret removes the secrecy. Of course, secrets can be stolen, reverse engineered, etc.

Was there a cease and desist order that I missed?

carbonbased · Sep 19, 2024

BurtG said:
Detection System Detects Rifle Scopes, Binoculars

TAMPA — A San Diego-based small business called Torrey Pines Logic displayed a small, mobile optical detection system at the Special Operations Forces Industry Conference here. It emits a laser pulse to detect nearby surveillance gear such as cameras, rifle scopes or various observation lenses...

www.snipershide.com

Russian anti-sniper system in Ukraine. I’ve linked right to the relevant timestamp.

higginsworksforme · Sep 20, 2024

100 Concepts emailed stating something I ordered is delayed because they're changing the design to transmit more light and something else "positive." It sounds curiously like they're complying with something.

RUTGERS95 · Sep 20, 2024

sneakypayload said:
US Gov sent a nastygram to defense distributors to stop selling their killflashes because of national security.

I've said for a decade now, the disarmament regime finally figured out they can use loose laws, statutes, and "national security" concerns to finally disarm civilians. They lose in court 9 times out of 10, so they are now turning to frivilous rules and lawsuits to accomplish this.

First it's this, then the "no body armor" push will happen, and you'll find greater restrictions in other places.

And no, just because someone has an R next to their name doesn't mean they either give a fuck about you, nor want to protect your rights.

how is this even enforceable?

Shooter McGavin · Sep 20, 2024

carbonbased said:
Russian anti-sniper system in Ukraine. I’ve linked right to the relevant timestamp.

Just a thought, but maybe you can defeat the LTLM II laser by having multiple shinny objects designed to look like like scopes. Similar to how the military will us blow up tanks to make it seem there are troops when there aren't any. Just overwhelm the system.

sneakypayload · Sep 20, 2024

higginsworksforme said:
100 Concepts emailed stating something I ordered is delayed because they're changing the design to transmit more light and something else "positive." It sounds curiously like they're complying with something.

Can you post the redacted email?

carbonbased · Sep 20, 2024

Shooter McGavin said:
Just a thought, but maybe you can defeat the LTLM II laser by having multiple shinny objects designed to look like like scopes. Similar to how the military will us blow up tanks to make it seem there are troops when there aren't any. Just overwhelm the system.

Ah, who knows? Combat is careening towards robot vs robot. Reminds me a little of an episode of an old cartoon, the Jetson’s football game. I loved that cartoon.

higginsworksforme · Sep 20, 2024

sneakypayload · Sep 20, 2024

huh ok. This doesn't seem like "compliance with gov order" moreso maybe a prod design improvement. Don't know.

higginsworksforme · Sep 20, 2024

It does to me because of the timing.

Makinchips208 · Sep 20, 2024

I don’t know that “better light transmission” is an improvement.

Im2bent · Sep 20, 2024

higginsworksforme said:
View attachment 8505993

Translation...we are making our product less effective so you can be detected easily and we can continue selling it to make a buck.

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USGOV banning Killflashes due to possible national security issues

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