6mm Dasher

#951
Primer seating depth, CCI 450 and Alpha OCD brass specifically.
Did anyone try primer seating depth tests? Flush, up to “feel it contact the pocket bottom” Light Crush, heavy crush? Where did you get best results? Thank you
 
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#952
Anyone willing to share their loaded neck diameter using non turned alpha brass? I searched and saw .269" in one post a while back but wanted to see what other people are getting.
 
#954
Juicymeat said:
Anyone willing to share their loaded neck diameter using non turned alpha brass? I searched and saw .269" in one post a while back but wanted to see what other people are getting.
Click to expand...
Checked a bunch over different bullets, .2692" to .2696" was a good average with only one light varmint bullet going .268" and a few up to .2702" for unturned Alpha brass.
 
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#955
As my barrel is starting to fade away, I’ve started shooting lighter bullets out of it as an experiment of what I can get to work. Turns out that I wish I had a bunch more 80gr Berger flat bases. With 31.5gr of 8208 in a 26” barrel, they will shoot consistent 1’s and 2’s at 3300fps. Damn near no recoil and accurate to 750 without even trying. New Criterion barrel is gonna go on in the next couple of weeks and going to try and shoot 106ATips as much as possible. Gonna end up with about 2800 rounds out of this current one. 80% of those were 108btt’s at 2950.
 
#956
Would anyone be able to share the load for a 115 bullet, either Berger or DTAC with Varget? Someone suggested to try the 115 with a 7.5 twist but I'm unsure about the load. Maybe start at 31 and go from there?

Should mention, new to reloading so I don't want to blindly go experiment.

Thank you
 
#957
UndFrm said:
Would anyone be able to share the load for a 115 bullet, either Berger or DTAC with Varget? Someone suggested to try the 115 with a 7.5 twist but I'm unsure about the load. Maybe start at 31 and go from there?

Should mention, new to reloading so I don't want to blindly go experiment.

Thank you
Click to expand...
Going through the pages in this thread will show you some DTAC loads, note many of them have longer than .104 freebore.

If you're new to reloading, the Dasher "easy button" is 32.4gr Varget under a 105-107. Cutting that by a grain and working up is a safe place to start.
 
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#958
UndFrm said:
Would anyone be able to share the load for a 115 bullet, either Berger or DTAC with Varget? Someone suggested to try the 115 with a 7.5 twist but I'm unsure about the load. Maybe start at 31 and go from there?

Should mention, new to reloading so I don't want to blindly go experiment.

Thank you
Click to expand...
I run 115 DTACs in 6 Dasher. Alpha brass. CCI450s. Suggest you start at 30 grains of Varget. I tried 30, 30.5, 31.0 of Varget with 115 DTACs - all shot great groups with low SDs. I chose 30 grains of Varget with 115 DTACs because I want to "see" impacts so choose lowest speed/recoil. Proof 7.5 twist prefit, Competition Contour, 26 inch. 30.0 grains Varget = 2705 and SD 4.9 sample size 5.
 
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#959
Lightning8 said:
I run 115 DTACs in 6 Dasher. Alpha brass. CCI450s. Suggest you start at 30 grains of Varget. I tried 30, 30.5, 31.0 of Varget with 115 DTACs - all shot great groups with low SDs. I chose 30 grains of Varget with 115 DTACs because I want to "see" impacts so choose lowest speed/recoil. Proof 7.5 twist prefit, Competition Contour, 26 inch. 30.0 grains Varget = 2705 and SD 4.9 sample size 5.
Click to expand...
Have you also tried 105s? If so, which one did you prefer in terms of accuracy?

Thank you
 
#960
UndFrm said:
Have you also tried 105s? If so, which one did you prefer in terms of accuracy?

Thank you
Click to expand...
I ran 105 Berger Hybrids over Varget in previous barrel. I had DTACs left over from previous 6XC barrel so I am running them for this barrel. I wanted to see if the 115s would make any difference seeing impacts. For me, they are both accurate. I got tired of chasing Bergers but they seem more available now.
 
#961
Load notes show 115 DTAC in 6mm Dasher 31.5 gr H4895 = 2894 fps
35.6 gr 2000 MR =2997 fps
35.8 gr 2000 MR = 3022 fps larger S/D

Nosler 115 gr 31.2 gr Varget = 2804 fps
Nosler 115 gr RL-15 31.5 gr = 2848 fps

The 115 gr DTAC with 2000MR load in a ladder test at 100 yds showed good possibilities at several higher velocity points in this 10 shot group, going to the top velocities S/D were higher.
H4895 was a small group shooter at 2800 fps.
6.5 Staball is fastest, and fairly accurate, at 3020 fps.
 

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#962
BoilerUP said:
If you're new to reloading, the Dasher "easy button" is 32.4gr Varget under a 105-107. Cutting that by a grain and working up is a safe place to start.
Click to expand...
If your running alpha brass cut that load down another 1.0 gr at least and work up. I run 112gr match burners with 31.4gr of Varget in Alpha brass. I think Lapua holds about a grain more.
 
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#963
TylerN said:
If your running alpha brass cut that load down another 1.0 gr at least and work up. I run 112gr match burners with 31.4gr of Varget in Alpha brass. I think Lapua holds about a grain more.
Click to expand...
To be clear, I should start with 30.4gr and workup, for 105 projectiles?
On a side note, I have been wondering if I should also try the 115 Dubbs, any experience with it?

Thank you
 
#964
UndFrm said:
To be clear, I should start with 30.4gr and workup, for 105 projectiles?
On a side note, I have been wondering if I should also try the 115 Dubbs, any experience with it?

Thank you
Click to expand...
That would be my plan with alpha brass. You will probably find a load for 105's in the 31.x - 32.0 range but it's worth it to start low and work up.

I've never tried 115 Dtacs because the availability used to be poor. I wouldn't hesitate to try them now. I shoot the Barnes 112gr Match Burners and choose them over 105's hybrids and 107 SMKs. I shoot a lot at 700y or greater and the heavier projectile with a better BC makes spotting easier. I expect the 115 Dtacs would perform similar to the 112.
 
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#970
UndFrm said:
For ladder test, what increment of powder do you use?
Click to expand...
It depends on the cartridge being tested, a 50BMG 2 full grains barely changes the speed of a 750 gr bullet...it takes 5 grains to get the big bullet to move a bit faster.
6 mm is much smaller .2 grain depending on powder volume. The 30 cal mag .3 to .4 grain, depending on case size.
 
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#971
45-90 said:
It depends on the cartridge being tested, a 50BMG 2 full grains barely changes the speed of a 750 gr bullet...it takes 5 grains to get the big bullet to move a bit faster.
6 mm is much smaller .2 grain depending on powder volume. The 30 cal mag .3 to .4 grain, depending on case size.
Click to expand...
6mm Dasher, Alpha brass. I m unsure about the case powder volume though.
 
#973
For the 6 Dasher, .1 or .2 grain, your choice.
It depends also on the bullet and the charge for that bullet.
If a heavy bullet with 28 to 32 grains is expected max charge probably go with .1 grain.
If 58 gr Vmax with a 40 gr max charge I would choose .2 grain.
But it's all up to you.
 
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#975
UndFrm said:
For a 105 VLD and Varget, is there a maximum charge or velocity in terms of safety, while testing?
Click to expand...

Depends on whether you intend to shoot in adverse/wet/dusty conditions, how much you care about a slight amount of effort on bolt lift (particularly as you get multiple firings on the brass), and how long you want the primer pockets to last. Lapua vs Alpha also has different case capacity (Lapua has more capacity).

I've run 105's north of 3k fps with high 32's or 33gr of Varget and a 26" barrel (Lapua brass). It's not going to explode in your face, but it's not going to meet all the above criteria. The brass is tough so not really a "safety" issue, just a longevity and function issue.

Personally I need it to function rain/shine, I don't want heavy bolt lift, and I want the brass to last 15-20+ firings. My experience is that you need to be in the mid/high 2800 fps range with a 26" barrel to achieve that. Alpha brass and 31gr of Varget with a 105 gets me in the ballpark.

You'd be surprised how well you can hit targets with a slow 105 grain bullet. Guys are winning matches even in the low 2800 fps range.
 
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#976
2850 fps seems to be the general “sweet spot” for the dasher. I ladder test .1 gr increments as well. But I do want to ad make sure you have a decent scale to measure appropriately. My V4 with A&D scale works well
 
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#977
The charge weight I started with was 31.7 and already had velocity of 2870. Went up from there with the increasing charge. Suitable as recommended here is around 2850fps. I'll start again with a lower charge and was wondering what the point should be?
30.0 and go with .2 increments until 31.6?
 
#979
UndFrm said:
I'll start again with a lower charge and was wondering what the point should be?
30.0 and go with .2 increments until 31.6?
Click to expand...
IMO I’d start at 31.4 and go up .1 increments. Your group size should be the determining factor more than the velocity. Or you can get your velocity as close to 2850 and fuck around with seating depth to tighten your groups. Again depends on your tools and how much time you want to spend down that rabbit hole
 
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#982
I have observed a phenomena haven't see mentioned here or elsewhere (probably my falut in searching) and it is the following:

with a frequency of one over 80-100 rounds, one of them results in a shot with a significant lower muzzle velocity ( around 2000 fps ), the primer seems 'inflated' towards the outside of the case head and the brass case neck is significantly dirtier. This results also that following shot is also always a little slower ( at least one of the slowest of the session, 10-15 fps below session average) then the second after is back to 'normal'
Recipe: Alpha OCD, CCi450, N150, B105, 2815 AVG, SD 5 or less over 30 shots, ES 25 (exluding the 'flyer' from stats). Primer seated 2-3k below flush, little crush in the primer pocket.

My best bet would be either a random problem with primers, or powder polluted by something ( cob grains left in the brass? ), but I woudl hear from the dasher gurus, even if I don't think is caliber specific. Thank you.
 
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#983
giumau1 said:
I have observed a phenomena haven't see mentioned here or elsewhere (probably my falut in searching) and it is the following:

with a frequency of one over 80-100 rounds, one of them results in a shot with a significant lower muzzle velocity ( around 2000 fps ), the primer seems 'inflated' towards the outside of the case head and the brass case neck is significantly dirtier. This results also that following shot is also always a little slower ( at least one of the slowest of the session, 10-15 fps below session average) then the second after is back to 'normal'
Recipe: Alpha OCD, CCi450, N150, B105, 2815 AVG, SD 5 or less over 30 shots, ES 25 (exluding the 'flyer' from stats). Primer seated 2-3k below flush, little crush in the primer pocket.

My best bet would be either a random problem with primers, or powder polluted by something ( cob grains left in the brass? ), but I woudl hear from the dasher gurus, even if I don't think is caliber specific. Thank you.
Click to expand...
So you say one round velocity drops just over 800 FPS?! That is crazy and, even after thousands of Dasher rounds down barrels, I have never seen or talked to anyone that has seen that.
 
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#984
giumau1 said:
I have observed a phenomena haven't see mentioned here or elsewhere (probably my falut in searching) and it is the following:

with a frequency of one over 80-100 rounds, one of them results in a shot with a significant lower muzzle velocity ( around 2000 fps ), the primer seems 'inflated' towards the outside of the case head and the brass case neck is significantly dirtier. This results also that following shot is also always a little slower ( at least one of the slowest of the session, 10-15 fps below session average) then the second after is back to 'normal'
Recipe: Alpha OCD, CCi450, N150, B105, 2815 AVG, SD 5 or less over 30 shots, ES 25 (exluding the 'flyer' from stats). Primer seated 2-3k below flush, little crush in the primer pocket.

My best bet would be either a random problem with primers, or powder polluted by something ( cob grains left in the brass? ), but I woudl hear from the dasher gurus, even if I don't think is caliber specific. Thank you.
Click to expand...
How are you throwing your powder?
 
#986
shoot4fun said:
So you say one round velocity drops just over 800 FPS?! That is crazy and, even after thousands of Dasher rounds down barrels, I have never seen or talked to anyone that has seen that.
Click to expand...
Yep, and it happens for just one round and the subsequent one does say 2790 and then all the other hammer back at 2815...
 
#987
giumau1 said:
Yep, and it happens for just one round and the subsequent one does say 2790 and then all the other hammer back at 2815...
Click to expand...
While I have no idea what the cause of the drastic loss of velocity is, I feel like the drop in the round after is caused by all the soot (maybe even unburned powder) left over from what I would consder a "dud" round. As far as it being caused by media left in the case, I would think it possible if it clogged the primer hole enough but not sure it would cause that big a drop (if at all) in velocity.
 
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#990
Only things I can think of are

Neck isn’t tight enough to hold bullet, maybe split, not properly sized, other.

You have a low powder charge.

Something obstructing the flash hole. Seriously doubt this though since the power a primer has will blow anything out of the way I would think.

Or you have moisture in the case retarding the powder burn if your wet tumbling?

Old primers that may have gotten wet or humidity degraded performance?

Is it possible the powder is bridging when you dump and not all is getting into the case? I run n150 and area 419 funnel and I get bridging every once in a while and when I’m not paying attention I have short charged a case. I always catch it because the next case is over filled when I dump the next charge or as I move the bridge breaks free and dumps powder everywhere.

This is me just thinking through options. Do any of those sound like they could be possible?
 
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#992
Baron85 said:
Only things I can think of are

Neck isn’t tight enough to hold bullet, maybe split, not properly sized, other.
Click to expand...

.2k consistent neck ID at .241, this is a no.

Baron85 said:
You have a low powder charge.
Click to expand...
31 gn, pretty average afaik. not on the hot side but also can not be considered low.

Baron85 said:
Something obstructing the flash hole. Seriously doubt this though since the power a primer has will blow anything out of the way I would think.
Click to expand...

I check every single one before priming...
Baron85 said:
Or you have moisture in the case retarding the powder burn if your wet tumbling?
Click to expand...
I add a little of brass polish to the corn cob in the tumbler it can be that some is left inside the case very randomly and since the load is just around 90% of case fill, this could be one possible root cause. I will hold back my OCD about shiny brass and avoid the polish and see what happens.

Baron85 said:
Old primers that may have gotten wet or humidity degraded performance?
Click to expand...
Can not exclude that in principle. I store them with powder in temp controlled wine cellars, so it's not my fault and my usual gun shop is also storing everything properly but 450s are becoming so scarce that you have to try new suppliers and then you never know how they have been kept.

Baron85 said:
Is it possible the powder is bridging when you dump and not all is getting into the case? I run n150 and area 419 funnel and I get bridging every once in a while and when I’m not paying attention I have short charged a case. I always catch it because the next case is over filled when I dump the next charge or as I move the bridge breaks free and dumps powder everywhere
Click to expand...
Yep this happened to me as well and this could be wel be a short charging scenario. In fact once the powder is dispensed into the case I don't have a last check routine just before seating that ensures that the right powder amount is really in each case. I usually seat one-by-one and have a visual quick check of the level of powder in the case but I don't have a bullet proof check tool like an hedspace gauge or the lovely case neck gauge from ballistic tools...
Baron85 said:
.

This is me just thinking through options. Do any of those sound like they could be possible?
Click to expand...
at least two options are more than reasonable thanks!
 
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#993
Getting into 6 dasher.

I’m a big fan on sac sizing dies, particularly with the expanding decapper in them. Sac makes an alpha and regular dasher die. I could see myself alpha and non alpha teamed chambers in the future. Can someone explain the big differences to me?


If I’m understanding it right, I can size brass for an alpha legacy teamed chamber with a standard dasher die, but not the other way around?
 
#998
padom said:
Thanks!

What freebore are guys typically going with? Especially for 110smk and 115 DTAC?
Click to expand...
If your going with an Alpha reamer I'd go with at least a .130....my BRA reamer is .145 and works well with 105s through 110s I don't shoot 115s but I am sure they would work fine...If your going with the heavies .154 might be even better.
 
#999
I’m getting a new barrel spun up.

26” Bartlein, alpha reamer, 7.5tw

Probably going to load something like this

- alpha oc brass
- 31.5g varget
- 450cci
- 105 or 109 hybrid target

Had some questions if anyone wouldn’t mind chiming in.

1. What neck tension is everyone running?
2. can I just mandrel and load virgin alpha? If so what mandrel or neck tension.
3. Should I go full size die with bushing, or no bushing + mandrel, or both like SAC.
4. What size bushing for the die if I do go that route? Or is it best to measure this via loaded bullet diameter?
 
#1,000
Just mandrel the virgin brass, anywhere from 0.002"' to 0.003"under, and rock and roll with your recipe. Seating depth isn't going to matter too much, can pretty much set them at .050 to .060 off touch and be done. If you're curious about 0.020 that's fine too. Recently shot some 140 hybrids from 6.5 at 0.100" and they were great there too.
 
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