Do you run a SunShade and why or why not.

#51
Burdy said:
Guess what I realized today while setting up another rifle? The scope that I have that fights ghosting/flares better than anything else, regardless of price point, magnification level, tube size, erector ratio etc is my S&B Dual CC short dot. It did not occur to me until today when I was setting up a different rifle and had them side by side that this thing basically has its own sunshade built in. I measured the distance from the lens to the front and it is buried nearly 1.5" in there, which is nearly the entire length difference between the two optics and quite deep for a 24mm objective in a 30mm tube.

Turns out, its ability to fend off the glare might have more to do with that than the superior glass.


Click to expand...
There have been a few scopes that essentially had an integrated sunshade by extending the tube a little. Early Meopta LPVOs did the same exact thing.
 
#52
Never run a sunshade, on a scope. Well, like once in the last 50 yrs. about a yr a go.
It was at a public range, where you can not select your firing position.
I don't like limitations public ranges, not to mention some of the people, and it's noisy.
I select my firing position, usually from the shade and the target is exposed to bright sunlight, especially today because of macular degeneration.
Totally peaceful when I stop shooting to let the barrel cool, wildlife is not too bothered by the shooting, much more pleasant than a public range.
Shooting, from the shade to the bright sunshine.
 

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#53
Burdy said:
This thread is certainly interesting. Some who always use it, some who never use it and some who use it sometimes.

As mentioned above, I am in the never camp.

There are some people in this thread that I have admiration of their opinion, but I really am beginning to wonder it this is a case of "I've always done it, so it must be right" with those that have used them for years.

I say that because I went out and purposely directed multiple optics in the sun, from multiple angles on multiple days, at sun-up, sun-down and everything in between and I never saw a sunshade or ARD do hardly anything at all. Perhaps if the angle was correct to within 1 degree (yeah, I am spit-balling that measurement) it could make the slightest difference. It's like illumination to me, if the scope I have has good glass and is bright, there is about 1 minute in the morning and 1 minute in the evening where illumination is NOT detrimental. (I am not taking into considering the need for illumination on FFP scopes for something like LPVO use)

The scopes that had higher-end glass, simply performed better when facing all angles of the sun, and I do mean better than the lower end scopes WITH sunshades.

As to saying there is no downside, I disagree, the one difference a long sunshade made was reducing light to my eyeball as the sun went down.

With that being said, maybe I need to revisit and revise my testing, but if anything, the best thing I got out of this was the neoprene koozie. Seems like a simple value add that I could carry in a pack just in case I want to give it a shot when encountering some annoying flare/ghosting.
Click to expand...



You're dismissing your eyes ability to adjust to a very wide range of conditions.

If you actually tried them during a situation where they helped, you could see it. You really have to do it back to back to realize how much it helps. It's easier to see with crappy glass.


Plus there's the added benefit of making it much harder to scratch the lens when it's 3-4" deep. None of us have ever scratched an objective though, right?


The positives outweigh the negatives for me. The only scope I would never put one on would be lpvo for running run nv or thermal.
 
#56
I ran one full time until the last few matches of last year.......now I keep it in my bag and haven't needed it recently. I find it better without and if needed it takes 15 sec to screw on. I had the scope chaps setup for the 2 piece design. I prefer not using now. I would say try it both ways, and see what works best for your eyes, scope, and situation. I'm running a ZCO btw, so I can't compare that to others.
 
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#57
J_D said:
I ran one full time until the last few matches of last year.......now I keep it in my bag and haven't needed it recently. I find it better without and if needed it takes 15 sec to screw on. I had the scope chaps setup for the 2 piece design. I prefer not using now. I would say try it both ways, and see what works best for your eyes, scope, and situation. I'm running a ZCO btw, so I can't compare that to others.
Click to expand...
Better how?
 
#58
Rob01 said:
Better how?
Click to expand...
More light......I wear glasses and just in a side by side, found it "my" preferred option. So I put it away unless needed. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or correct, but I did shoot quite a few rds with and without, to base my decision for me.
 
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#60
Sullypants1 said:
I only run them because they keep dust, debris and water off the lens for a little while longer.

I've actually never noticed less or more glare with or without the "sun" shade.
Click to expand...
I keep my lens covers on for that purpose. Snap open pre stage, close post stage.
 
#64
AFAIK there's no downside to running one, so I figured why not?

Helps with: sun (duh), rain, dust, whacking it into shit, real estate for mashing the gun into a bag, etc.

Does anyone have any reason besides thinking it looks cooler to not run one?
 
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#72
Burdy said:
So you are saying a 10ft long sunshade would not affect perceived brightness regardless of light source location?
Click to expand...
The only light that matters is that entering the objective lens, reasonably parallel to the bore of the scope, from the target area. High angle of incident light ain't doing a thing to make the target area brighter and can only possibly cause flare/glare.

I think Koshin well described this above.
 
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#73
308pirate said:
why don't we make it 100 feet long?

You can think whatever you want. I'm not going to indulge your ridiculous argument.
Click to expand...
FuhQ said:
If you feel that 3” equates the same affect as 10’, then I bet your wife or GF isn’t happy… 🤣
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Baron23 said:
The only light that matters is that entering the objective lens, reasonably parallel to the bore of the scope, from the target area. High angle of incident light ain't doing a thing to make the target area brighter and can only possibly cause flare/glare.

I think Koshin well described this above.
Click to expand...
Uncle!
 
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#74
Baron23 is correct


Again, optics are designed to provide detail (Koskin characterizes it as useful information-same thing).

They have trouble providing that detail with the illumination from an intense light source like the sun hitting the front objective and going through the optic.


Not enough light, the optic can't provide any detail (black is black because you can't see any detail")



Too much light (for the optical system to handle) and you get aberration/coma/flare/"ghosting"/reflections of the lens elements themselves which is all kinds of bullshit that's covering up/obliterating the detail you're trying to see.

The issue of "more light"/stray light coming from the sun at sunset hitting your scope (and going throught it) is that it doesn't provide you w/any detail if it's not illuminating whatever's in the shadows (which is why they are shadows) you're trying see w/your scope.

It sunset and it's getting dark, if the sun is hitting your scope, but isn't illuminating what you're trying to look at in the shadows then it's stray light which isn't providing you w/any detail/useful information about your target.

It's not a drawback that your sunshade is cutting out that stray light, it's a plus. "More light" is trouble if it's coming from the Sun and hitting your front objective and not hitting whatever you're looking at, it's worse than useless because it's creating the above mentioned aberrations.

God set all this up billions of years ago w/"Let There Be Light."

What they forgot to write down was something else he said which was..

"No changes".


The rest of us are all humble observers trying to pick up a few tidbits here and there.

One thing for sure, light from an intense light source going through an optic will create aberrations, it may not be bad enough at a certain point for you to notice it, or it doesn't bother you whatever it's doing, that's fine.


My compliments to you Burdy, you're a reasonable man willing to listen to another point of view
 
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#82
I shot a match one time early in the morning, sun came up just to the side of the targets. I had a sun shade on an Athlon Helos BTRg2, buddy next o me had a Vortex Razer. Guy on the othet side of me had a Nightforce. There were a couple times I could barely see the 1,000 yard targets and if I turned the power down it helped a lot. Buddy with the Vortex couldn't see anything and had to stop. I don't remember how the Nightforce did.
I think I noticed that right as the sun is going down, if I'm looking east, the image is slightly brighter without the sun shade, but just slightly.
I wrapped the scope and sunshade with camoflage athletic tape so I don't take it off now. And I run caps on it.
 
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#90
J_D said:
More light......I wear glasses and just in a side by side, found it "my" preferred option. So I put it away unless needed. I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or correct, but I did shoot quite a few rds with and without, to base my decision for me.
Click to expand...
Now, this is the only reason I can see to maybe, and I mean maaaaybe, not to run a sunshade. Just sometimes.

Before my cataract surgeries I used to wear glasses to correct -11/-10.5 nearsightedness. I always bought the top end lenses, high index plastic to keep ‘em as thin as possible and all of the anti-reflective coatings (except the computer monitor coating…a ripoff).

Those bastards still cut down the available light hitting my retinas, most definitely. When I’d wear my contacts outside, I was damn near blinded by the sun lol and needed sunglasses to function in some situations, especially driving. No prob when wearing my coke bottles.

So, depending on how crazy your rx is, I can see sometimes (rarely) needing every little bit of light, even shitty extraneous peripheral light, just to get the eyes to work.
 
#91
So, I ran a A/B test on this very topic last weekend by shooting west under the setting sun. Used four scopes with and without some type of hood/sunshade.

My findings:
  • Black neoprene (internally) can koozies might actually make flare worse! My sample did, anyway.
  • Ditto for a Ranger Green tube of Cordura.
  • 3 of 4 scopes improved with manufacturer metal shades attached. One scope is inconclusive (S&B 5-25) due to a testing error.
  • One scope (NF NX8 4-32) barely improved. But it had the best flare resistance to start with.
  • Fairly significant amounts of dust on the objective might have more impact than I first thought. Maybe.
  • Higher magnification really accentuates the problem. At 20x+ a hood is critical for many scopes.

I’m 99.99% sure a proper shade would help the S&B.

I’m going to retest when I can. See the test here:
www.snipershide.com

Flare / Glare / Backlit notes on 4 scopes (NX8 4-32, Razor Gen II 4.5-27, Razor LHT 4.5-22, S&B 5-25)

Here is an unscientific (and flawed) BACKLIT flare resistance test of four scopes I own. I aimed them under a setting sun during one single session. It’s flawed in the way that I didn’t have shades for two of the scopes. Plus dust, flare from improvised sunshades, and possible flare from a...
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
 
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#94
I use the sunshade on all scopes/rifles that can equip them. The shades do a pretty good job of keeping rain/dust off of the objective when the lens covers are open.

This one looks a bit goofy as the shade overhangs the handguard, but it is effective.
IMG_6233.jpeg
 
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#98
I never use a sunshade, unless forced to, like sun coming directly into the scope, at an organized rifle range, with fixed positions...out here I just change positions, and shoot from a shaded position, never even consider a sunshade, they are always left behind.
Never purchased one that didn't come with the scope. And only one was ever used, once, when I had to go to the dreaded rifle & pistol club to shoot, with fixed positions directly facing the sun.
 
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