Home construction worth

DangerDave · Sep 22, 2024

I’m 29 years old, married, and we have a 2 year old. Living in a townhouse apartment which was built in the 70s and one problem after the other (previous landlords never did anything and the current one tries but lacks financial stability).

Goal is to get out of here in a year or two. Paid off all debt (car loans, credit cards, etc.) and managed to save up $11k since being debt free. Invested that in a high yield savings account with 4.5% APR and adding around $1000 per month. I have a state job and currently make $98k/year. Still have 8 more step raises to go and will be at $130k by the time I max out. My wife is a stay at home mom so single income household.

Not sure what I would get pre-approved for based on my current income. Talked to a construction company and quote for 3bd 2ba w/ unfinished basement (want to add a bedroom and a bathroom eventually) right at $400k (not including the lot). They will purchase the lot and finish construction so I can get a mortgage instead of 20% down and a construction loan (they have already done this for a couple of friends). Not sure how to proceed.

Worth it to go ahead right away and live month to month the first couple years? or better to wait?

91Eunozs · Sep 22, 2024

Rates suck right now, and I honestly think the bottom’s gonna drop out of the housing market by next year as people continue to go broke, and hopefully as we begin to deport millions of illegals who are a big part of the housing shortage we’re experiencing right now. We’re suffering under a “double whammy” right now with high rates… well, high for recent history anyway… and higher demand from the millions of new ‘residents’ who have to live somewhere. Combine this with a shrinking supply of housing in many areas due to increased building regulations (restrictions), and higher building material + higher labor costs and you have a bad scenario for potential home buyers. Also, builders aren’t extending themselves on spec homes very much right now under these conditions, so there’s little incentive for them to make a deal on idle inventory…because there is none.

I’d continue to save and wait at least another year, unless something dramatic changes the current market.

That said, our son and his wife just bought a house near us and got an OK(ish) rate for these days…4.7% I think…with a builder-funded mortgage.

Clob McStrunk · Sep 22, 2024

If you can manage the current issues with the townhome and keep up tucking away the $1k/month for another year, you’ll be in a vastly different position. Maybe see if your landlord will offer a discount on rent for either putting up with some of the issues or fixing them yourself. You’re already ahead of the majority of your peers, stay focused on the long term and work the plan.

_Windrider_ · Sep 22, 2024

There is a saying when it comes to home purchases.

Marry the house and date the rate.

It’s never a bad time to buy your forever home. If you find a home you want to stay in forever than snatch it at the best price you can and rate and refi as able when market conditions allow.

If you are investing, you need to be smarter and in order to make money in the long term you have to plan for a 10 year payoff, 15 max.

Bottom line, don’t let interest rates scare you off. They go up and down and even at 6% are lower than they have been for the last 100 years. We just got used to the 2-3%. Also if you have VA use it and if you are a disabled vet that funding fee is waived.

It’s never the wrong time to buy.

Jperk0278 · Sep 22, 2024

Windrider is not wrong, but I’m on the side of saving your money for another year or two and buy at a lower rate and/or reduced home prices after the crash that seems inevitable.

Sgtsideways · Sep 22, 2024

One of the scams that is going on with homes and property taxes is that counties are setting their budgets and the home tax assessments are based on that figure. It's a real problem that is being pulled on the home owners in many states and it is illegal:

Before you leap into home "ownership," realize that you are just a serf and don't really own that property. Secondly, if the courthouse doesn't rape you till you bleed, watch for homeowner's/car insurance and the state that you live in. That can put the dreams of home ownership in the trash can, if you can't get homeowners insurance............No insurance, no mortgage.

I would never go thru the home building crap again. Buy existing, if possible, but I think that there are really hard times coming financially. Foreclosures are and will be thru the roof. That would be the time to do serious looking.

All of this is by design...........You'll own nothing and love it.//////So they say.

BikePilot · Sep 22, 2024

Save and wait. It sucks to be cash poor and houses will surprise you with expenses. Imo life is way more fun when finances aren't tight. Live cheaply, save your money and don't get over extended.

I've done it both ways. Many years ago I bought a house and didn't have much cash to spare. It was not super tight, but also not ideal. More recently I've changed my approach where I keep enough cash or liquid investments that I have room to absorb about any surprises, take advantage of opportunities, or live comfortably for a few years if work stuff goes sideways. To enable this i rented a cheap place for as long as I could. Eventually renting became impractical (we really liked our neighborhood and no rentals were available in it) and I bought a place, but by that time I could comfortably afford to buy. Life is so much less stressful and more fun.

It also enables career moves that I would not have taken before where week to week comp is unpredictable, but long term earnings are likely much better.

91Eunozs · Sep 22, 2024

_Windrider_ said:
There is a saying when it comes to home purchases.

Marry the house and date the rate.

It’s never a bad time to buy your forever home. If you find a home you want to stay in forever than snatch it at the best price you can and rate and refi as able when market conditions allow.

If you are investing, you need to be smarter and in order to make money in the long term you have to plan for a 10 year payoff, 15 max.

Bottom line, don’t let interest rates scare you off. They go up and down and even at 6% are lower than they have been for the last 100 years. We just got used to the 2-3%. Also if you have VA use it and if you are a disabled vet that funding fee is waived.

It’s never the wrong time to buy.

This is the way.

I’ll caveat this by adding: “If (and it’s a big if) the perfect home for you manifests.” I mentioned above that even though they got a decent mortgage rate for today’s market, our son and his wife are also hoping a better rate will materialize. At the very least, they plan to refinance once they have enough equity to avoid PMI…they put a big chunk down, but didn’t want to completely drain their savings to avoid the PMI hit.

They continue to live very frugally, and plan to pay off their home in less than 15 years; they’re making extra payments every month or so, all the while waiting to take advantage of any interest dips that may occur.

Ronws · Sep 22, 2024

Lot's of good advice here. I would also advise wating at least until after the new year to think about sinking the money into it. I say that because there is rumor that the Fed will lower PIR. If that does happen, then finance at that better rate.

Aftermath · Sep 22, 2024

_Windrider_ said:
There is a saying when it comes to home purchases.

Marry the house and date the rate.

It’s never a bad time to buy your forever home. If you find a home you want to stay in forever than snatch it at the best price you can and rate and refi as able when market conditions allow.

If you are investing, you need to be smarter and in order to make money in the long term you have to plan for a 10 year payoff, 15 max.

Bottom line, don’t let interest rates scare you off. They go up and down and even at 6% are lower than they have been for the last 100 years. We just got used to the 2-3%. Also if you have VA use it and if you are a disabled vet that funding fee is waived.

It’s never the wrong time to buy.

While I agree pretty much with everything, I'd wait at least until next early spring (FEB-MAR) to see what this election does.

Sgtsideways · Sep 22, 2024

Sgtsideways said:
One of the scams that is going on with homes and property taxes is that counties are setting their budgets and the home tax assessments are based on that figure. It's a real problem that is being pulled on the home owners in many states and it is illegal:

Before you leap into home "ownership," realize that you are just a serf and don't really own that property. Secondly, if the courthouse doesn't rape you till you bleed, watch for homeowner's/car insurance and the state that you live in. That can put the dreams of home ownership in the trash can, if you can't get homeowners insurance............No insurance, no mortgage.

I would never go thru the home building crap again. Buy existing, if possible, but I think that there are really hard times coming financially. Foreclosures are and will be thru the roof. That would be the time to do serious looking.

All of this is by design...........You'll own nothing and love it.//////So they say.

I didn't realize that the scheme of fraudulent property tax appraisals was already in my own backyard until today, so I have set up another post for those of you that may be interested. I hope I haven't hijacked the OP's post. Here it is:

For those of you that are property tax payers

A post on this forum got me to thinking about the property taxes that we have been paying. Thru out the country, there is a rather nefarious and illegal tax scheme that assessors and collectors have been engaged in...

www.snipershide.com

Dead Eye Dick · Sep 22, 2024

Brenda and I built our forever home in 1994. There is all kinds of decisions and choices you must make. Everything from door handles, to lighting fixtures, to faucets, and not even mentioning tubs/showers/dishwashers, etc. Building a home is not cheap, nor easy

1. Its always said that you build your first home to learn all the issues and problems so that the second home you build will be pretty much perfect. (we skipped that part, and it has haunted us somewhat)

2. The closest we have ever been to divorce is during the construction. Its a real strain, prepare for it, talk about it and never quit talking

3. Don't plan for inexpensive appliances now. Get them if you needed them but make sure you have physical room for upgrades as you get older and more financially secure. its an issue we are having right now.

4. Don't be afraid to strike out with unusual choices. Brenda kept wanting to go to this used furniture store. My thoughts, if I wanted "used" furniture, we could just keep what we have. Well, what she wanted to see was 'HUGH'S Furniture. Darned English language.

Funny story about used furniture. We purchased a new love seat/couch combination and have refurnished/refinished the den several times. But, Brenda did some astute shopping at the antique furniture auctions. She did not go for the "antiques" but for good used, older furniture. Well now it has aged enough to qualify for the title Antique. Refer to #3, virtually all the furniture in our home is technically "USED" furniture. I think it looks just as good as brand new and not one tiny piece of cardboard or pressed wood is in any of it. (though I have refinished a couple of pieces)

If you want a home, don't be afraid to drive smaller, not as nice, older cars. Car loans can kill you, especially when you are underwater on the car loan and that amount is added to your new car loan. Vehicles and vehicle financing is such a racket.

Around here, homes were built with local bank financing using signature loans with hefty downpayment. A friendly banker at a local bank can talk to you about this. Mortgages are such a pain. You have to pay for interim building loans. Then the paperwork and costs. Closing costs, mortgage insurance, don't forget the title insurance and others. Get a survey of your land and build a fence. Stay as far away from HOA as the LORD and the Government will allow you.

Ex E6 · Sep 22, 2024

DangerDave said:
I’m 29 years old, married, and we have a 2 year old. Living in a townhouse apartment which was built in the 70s and one problem after the other (previous landlords never did anything and the current one tries but lacks financial stability).

Goal is to get out of here in a year or two. Paid off all debt (car loans, credit cards, etc.) and managed to save up $11k since being debt free. Invested that in a high yield savings account with 4.5% APR and adding around $1000 per month. I have a state job and currently make $98k/year. Still have 8 more step raises to go and will be at $130k by the time I max out. My wife is a stay at home mom so single income household.

Not sure what I would get pre-approved for based on my current income. Talked to a construction company and quote for 3bd 2ba w/ unfinished basement (want to add a bedroom and a bathroom eventually) right at $400k (not including the lot). They will purchase the lot and finish construction so I can get a mortgage instead of 20% down and a construction loan (they have already done this for a couple of friends). Not sure how to proceed.

Worth it to go ahead right away and live month to month the first couple years? or better to wait?

You failed to mention area being built in ?. Nor did you mention Sq. Ft. or any amenities ?. Construction costs vary greatly depending on area of the Country ,as does WHAT ONE GETS for their monies !. Shop around and don't be so anxious to grab someone else's first offer .
I'd prefer to PURCHASE the land MYSELF ,then get a home plan which WORKS FOR YOU and your family . NOT what some marketer pawns off on you . Remember IF you plan on staying in that home ,be sure it can be remodeled or a sizable addition can be put on it later down the road ( Without major obstacles ) . Younger folks generally don't think things through and Children DO HAPPEN !.

DangerDave · Sep 22, 2024

Ex E6 said:
You failed to mention area being built in ?. Nor did you mention Sq. Ft. or any amenities ?. Construction costs vary greatly depending on area of the Country ,as does WHAT ONE GETS for their monies !. Shop around and don't be so anxious to grab someone else's first offer .
I'd prefer to PURCHASE the land MYSELF ,then get a home plan which WORKS FOR YOU and your family . NOT what some marketer pawns off on you . Remember IF you plan on staying in that home ,be sure it can be remodeled or a sizable addition can be put on it later down the road ( Without major obstacles ) . Younger folks generally don't think things through and Children DO HAPPEN !.

Sorry. We’re looking at lots in small towns north of Springfield, Illinois. 2000 sq. Ft would be reasonable since we plan on having one or two more kids. As far as the amenities go, nothing too fancy. The construction company I spoke to will design a plan based on our input it seems. We want the unfinished basement so we can add an extra bedroom and a bathroom in the future as I move up the ladder.

I could purchase the land but then I’d have to get a construction loan and a 20% down is mandatory. It’ll take me 5 years to save that much money. Hence leaning towards having the builder buy the lot.

_Windrider_ · Sep 22, 2024

DangerDave said:
Sorry. We’re looking at lots in small towns north of Springfield, Illinois. 2000 sq. Ft would be reasonable since we plan on having one or two more kids. As far as the amenities go, nothing too fancy. The construction company I spoke to will design a plan based on our input it seems. We want the unfinished basement so we can add an extra bedroom and a bathroom in the future as I move up the ladder.

I could purchase the land but then I’d have to get a construction loan and a 20% down is mandatory. It’ll take me 5 years to save that much money. Hence leaning towards having the builder buy the lot.

There are lots of options. You have to find the right lender. Many lenders who are familiar with land deals will do purchase to construction immediately. Just do your research

Ronws · Sep 22, 2024

DangerDave said:
Sorry. We’re looking at lots in small towns north of Springfield, Illinois. 2000 sq. Ft would be reasonable since we plan on having one or two more kids. As far as the amenities go, nothing too fancy. The construction company I spoke to will design a plan based on our input it seems. We want the unfinished basement so we can add an extra bedroom and a bathroom in the future as I move up the ladder.

I could purchase the land but then I’d have to get a construction loan and a 20% down is mandatory. It’ll take me 5 years to save that much money. Hence leaning towards having the builder buy the lot.

And keep a close eye on your cats.

_Windrider_ · Sep 22, 2024

Ronws said:
And keep a close eye on your cats.

Wrong springfield

Ronws · Sep 22, 2024

_Windrider_ said:
Wrong springfield

Don't ruin a good joke with the facts.

Edited to add: I know it was Ohio. Just making a quick joke on the fly.

91Eunozs · Sep 22, 2024

Dead Eye Dick said:
Brenda and I built our forever home in 1994. There is all kinds of decisions and choices you must make. Everything from door handles, to lighting fixtures, to faucets, and not even mentioning tubs/showers/dishwashers, etc. Building a home is not cheap, nor easy

1. Its always said that you build your first home to learn all the issues and problems so that the second home you build will be pretty much perfect. (we skipped that part, and it has haunted us somewhat)

2. The closest we have ever been to divorce is during the construction. Its a real strain, prepare for it, talk about it and never quit talking

3. Don't plan for inexpensive appliances now. Get them if you needed them but make sure you have physical room for upgrades as you get older and more financially secure. its an issue we are having right now.

4. Don't be afraid to strike out with unusual choices. Brenda kept wanting to go to this used furniture store. My thoughts, if I wanted "used" furniture, we could just keep what we have. Well, what she wanted to see was 'HUGH'S Furniture. Darned English language.

Funny story about used furniture. We purchased a new love seat/couch combination and have refurnished/refinished the den several times. But, Brenda did some astute shopping at the antique furniture auctions. She did not go for the "antiques" but for good used, older furniture. Well now it has aged enough to qualify for the title Antique. Refer to #3, virtually all the furniture in our home is technically "USED" furniture. I think it looks just as good as brand new and not one tiny piece of cardboard or pressed wood is in any of it. (though I have refinished a couple of pieces)

If you want a home, don't be afraid to drive smaller, not as nice, older cars. Car loans can kill you, especially when you are underwater on the car loan and that amount is added to your new car loan. Vehicles and vehicle financing is such a racket.

Around here, homes were built with local bank financing using signature loans with hefty downpayment. A friendly banker at a local bank can talk to you about this. Mortgages are such a pain. You have to pay for interim building loans. Then the paperwork and costs. Closing costs, mortgage insurance, don't forget the title insurance and others. Get a survey of your land and build a fence. Stay as far away from HOA as the LORD and the Government will allow you.

Truth.

So much truth and wisdom in this post. OP needs to read it twice, then book mark it, and read it again in a year.

Seriously.

Sgtsideways · Sep 23, 2024

Now I know why the state of illinois is bankrupt. With those kind of salaries and pay grades for state employees it's no wonder.
I'm glad I sold my father's businesses and every piece of property in that crappy state in the early 2000's. The most corrupt state in the union thanks to Prickster. The politicians and state employees are bleeding illinois dry.

johnnyvw · Sep 23, 2024

Make sure you have a reliable builder. My step son and DIL had a custom house built in 2020-2021. It's a piece of shit, even though the builder had a decent reputation at the time. Check BBB for any red flags. Go with one of their designs that suits your needs, IMO that was a mistake our kids made, going with a design they found online and I doubt anyone had an engineer check it. Part of the problem is the county inspectors, which are worthless and can't be held liable, so get a private inspector that specializes in checking ongoing construction on your dime...trust me, it can save a lot of headaches as afterwards it's much harder to correct issues. Also, if you're having two kids, either build something bigger than 2000 sq ft or realize your basement will be their playground. As far as timing goes, if you can afford it, go for it. After owning mutliple homes over the last 50 years, it's never the "right" time to buy...either rates are up and prices are down, or vice versa.
Also, make sure you have an attorney check whatever contract you're making on the land and construction. I saw a news report one woman got f**ked out of her home after it was built, the builder sold it out from under her for more money.

91Eunozs · Sep 23, 2024

johnnyvw said:
… Also, make sure you have an attorney check whatever contract you're making on the land and construction. I saw a news report one woman got f**ked out of her home after it was built, the builder sold it out from under her for more money.

That happened in our neighborhood a few years ago, right before covid hit, when houses were appreciating in value faster than they could build them. Builder was/is persona non-grata around here now, but he completely ruined a couple’s life after building their retirement home to make a few bucks.

That’s clearly not an issue in this environment where builders are desperate for work, but the advice is solid. Trust no one, and understand that this is a business transaction, nothing more, nothing less. The builder isn’t your friend…even if they are friends outside the job, this is a contract that will be executed, and it can get ugly.

Try hard to avoid house fever too… It’ll fuck you and your ability to make rationale, unemotional decisions. AMHIK

johnnyvw · Sep 23, 2024

The Raleigh NC area is still booming, although not quite as red hot as it was in 2021-2022. I know that's not the case everywhere....

_Windrider_ · Sep 23, 2024

johnnyvw said:
The Raleigh NC area is still booming, although not quite as red hot as it was in 2021-2022. I know that's not the case everywhere....

I made out like a bandit when I moved from wake forest in 21

johnnyvw · Sep 23, 2024

I'll bet you did!

We ended up with a new build. The stupid "due diligence" money on exisiting homes was getting out of hand....people were offering 10 to 20 k, and then walking away from it if there was an issue with the house they didn't want to deal with. FTS....

godofthunder · Sep 23, 2024

91Eunozs said:
...and plan to pay off their home in less than 15 years; they’re making extra payments every month or so, all the while waiting to take advantage of any interest dips that may occur.

Why do people have such a desire to pay a home off early?

I can pay down my low interest mortgage OR put that same money in an ETF and make 10% or better.

_Windrider_ · Sep 23, 2024

johnnyvw said:
I'll bet you did!

We ended up with a new build. The stupid "due diligence" money on exisiting homes was getting out of hand....people were offering 10 to 20 k, and then walking away from it if there was an issue with the house they didn't want to deal with. FTS....

The amount of money we made on both the houses we sold was retarded.

91Eunozs · Sep 23, 2024

godofthunder said:
Why do people have such a desire to pay a home off early?

I can pay down my low interest mortgage OR put that same money in an ETF and make 10% or better.

Yep, money, and debt, is a tool to be used like any other. However, living debt-free is a reward that I can’t explain… very, very liberating on a visceral level.

Glad my son picked up that trait.

Short-bus · Sep 23, 2024

I would accept the probability your first house isn't going to be a new contruction, at least not your dream home. I don't know where you are, or what the market looks like, but I would get a realtor, fill out an applicated and get a preapproval. Once you have a preapproval you know what to look for. Don't max out what the bank says you can afford, step it down, get into a home in a decent area with decent schools. Yeah the rates suck balls, but only because we got a nice long taste of low rates. My first house 21 years ago was 6.5% and we were SUPER HAPPY to get that rate as first time buyers. Refinancing is easy, especially as the rates go down, which they're going to for the next year. Buying sooner than later might be advantageous because when folks think the market bottoms out, then there's going to be a frenzy I think.

Just my $.02.

gopherslayer · Sep 23, 2024

godofthunder said:
Why do people have such a desire to pay a home off early?

I can pay down my low interest mortgage OR put that same money in an ETF and make 10% or better.

We just met with our investment guy last week and we’re at a bit over 14% on the year. House is 3%. Even at 7-8% you’d be ahead to ride it out if what’s invested is large enough. We could pay the house off next week if I gave into my wife but I told her no way in hell. Then we had the meeting and she realized why I don’t want to pay it off.

DangerDave · Sep 24, 2024

Sgtsideways said:
Now I know why the state of illinois is bankrupt. With those kind of salaries and pay grades for state employees it's no wonder.
I'm glad I sold my father's businesses and every piece of property in that crappy state in the early 2000's. The most corrupt state in the union thanks to Prickster. The politicians and state employees are bleeding illinois dry.

I agree with you. I am a Christian conservative and I will always try my best to do right by God and hardworking citizens. I proposed a solution that would cost $500K for a lifetime but they said NO and went with a private company paying them $9M a year.

A private company will pay an IT supervisor $150K avg. but it's not worth the mental stress and no real sense of job security. A lot of red states - Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Missouri, Tennessee, and Texas will pay me the same if not more for building websites that offer services to the citizens.

We are a single-income household and my wife is a stay-at-home mom who will be homeschooling all our kids. I want to give my family the relief that comes with my job security. I used to work for a private company (paid for 8 hours but worked 15 hours a day) and they furloughed me during Covid. Had to take a $20k salary drop and move to IL because this is where our family is. It took me three years to recover from that financially.

Dead Eye Dick · Sep 24, 2024

DangerDave said:
I agree with you. I am a Christian conservative and I will always try my best to do right by God and hardworking citizens. I proposed a solution that would cost $500K for a lifetime but they said NO and went with a private company paying them $9M a year.

A private company will pay an IT supervisor $150K avg. but it's not worth the mental stress and no real sense of job security. A lot of red states - Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Missouri, Tennessee, and Texas will pay me the same if not more for building websites that offer services to the citizens.

We are a single-income household and my wife is a stay-at-home mom who will be homeschooling all our kids. I want to give my family the relief that comes with my job security. I used to work for a private company (paid for 8 hours but worked 15 hours a day) and they furloughed me during Covid. Had to take a $20k salary drop and move to IL because this is where our family is. It took me three years to recover from that financially.

Before I became a teacher, I worked for and retired from the state of Louisiana in the field of serving the mentally retarded. I always did my absolute best to get the very best possible care for my clients and earn every penny my employers paid me. (And my employers were the taxpayers of Louisiana). It was important.

Sgtsideways · Oct 10, 2024

DangerDave said:
I agree with you. I am a Christian conservative and I will always try my best to do right by God and hardworking citizens. I proposed a solution that would cost $500K for a lifetime but they said NO and went with a private company paying them $9M a year.

A private company will pay an IT supervisor $150K avg. but it's not worth the mental stress and no real sense of job security. A lot of red states - Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Missouri, Tennessee, and Texas will pay me the same if not more for building websites that offer services to the citizens.

We are a single-income household and my wife is a stay-at-home mom who will be homeschooling all our kids. I want to give my family the relief that comes with my job security. I used to work for a private company (paid for 8 hours but worked 15 hours a day) and they furloughed me during Covid. Had to take a $20k salary drop and move to IL because this is where our family is. It took me three years to recover from that financially.

I now see the plight that you are in, and of course you have to do the best for your family. My plight was two parents with Alzheimers and a ton of bills, so it had to be a scorched earth type of triage to get the state off of their backs.
My father's businesses were the type that constantly was getting hit up for bribes by local l.e., that along with the property taxes, high utility costs, politicians wanting "donations", ect. was enough for me to go to plan B. Looking back now, it seems the whole country is copying the illinois system of corruption, especially when it come to property taxes.

lonegunman762x51 · Oct 10, 2024

Buddy lives in a remote area, works at a large powerplant. Gave up on flakey builders and 400k houses that never get built. Bought a "super good sense" energy efficient triple wide, set in on a basement, well, septic, 400yd driveway to highway and power. Still under 400k and on 40 acres.

Local school has 200 kids maybe K-12, his oldest boy got sheets with revolutionary War soldiers to color as part of elementary school assignments. They say the pledge and play sports outside for gym class, not one boy in a dress.

I lived in a similar house for 8 years while working in the area. It was finished as nicely as my current stick built 5 bedroom home and had fewer squeaks. We'll worth considering.

Can you work farther away from the heathens?

AmmoFort · Oct 10, 2024

Look into USDA loans.

Having trouble using the site?

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