Prior to SHOT 2019, I posted in several threads that we were hoping for three possible announcements ... regarding long distance thermal clipons:
01 - Trijicon would have something to say about future prospects of them restarting manufacturing of UTC-x or UTC-xii. We heard nothing along those lines
... and availability of even the SKEET is unknown for commercial customers. Which is worse than we hoped for.
02 - LWTS-LR announcement including commercial availability. As of right now, it seems like 1-2 years while government contracts get filled is as good a guess as any.
03 - N-Vision Optics. We hoped that after a year of pushing their new Atlas (with BAE core) hand held spotter offerings ... they might announce new scopes and/or long distance thermal clipons.
They've had two long distance thermal clipons in the past ... their TC-50 and TC-50a (not to be confused with the PRG TC-50
) ... and they did announce dedicated scopes.
But, posts from Max_R indicate no plan to use the BAE core for a thermal clipon in the future.
So short version is three strikes and we're out. No new long distance thermal clipon on the horizon. So what to do ? If a person really wants one
... then hunting down a used one ... or a new one gathering dust on some dealers shelf is an option. Or trying the PRG hoping it works.
But definitely not where I hoped we would be at this point
==
Oh and what is a "long distance thermal clipon" ?
One that can support at least 8x magnification on the day scope by design (i.e. at least 2x front magnification, offset by 0.5x demagnification on the rear).
And ideally one that also has collimated Risley Prisms (CRP) on the rear to allow the unit to be moved from rifle to rifle with no POI shift,
provided day and night optic are mounted within the tolerance of the CRP
on board the night optic.
Most of the thermal clipons available commercially (and even the available military ones we can buy) are designed to support 4x on the day scope. They do not use the magnify/demagnify trick.
Yes, some of them have great images and you can squeeze the day scope magnification up to 5x or even 6x .. but by design they are 4x support. The 320s are even less ... 2x for sure, squeeze to 3x.
A long distance thermal clipon can help you get yotes out to 500yds ... and hit 12 inch heated steel out to 900yds, if you are so inclined. Not every one needs them, but some do.
Especially those going after yotes in more open terrain like found on the West side of the Mississippi.
Oh and what is the "inventory" of possible used ones to go after ?
FLIR T-75
N-Vision Optics TC-50, TC-50A
BAE UTC, UTC-x
All of these are designed to support 8x or higher on the day scope by using the magnify/demagnify trick.
There are a tiny few others out there, including some made by entities outside the USA. But even less is known about those than the above units.
Back in Nov 2016, I decided to go after one. I was inspired by a thread in which IRV posted and discussed the advantages of long distance thermal clipons.
Several hide members aided in the search including surgeon_shooter and i2_technologies
I pursued all three, the UTC-x, the T-75 and the TC-50. I came close to all three. At the last minute, FLIR changed their mind and decided they didn't want to sell to civilians.
Before my search and after, they did sell to civilians but I caught them at a bad moment. Some deal involving shady export to Japan was mentioned.
But I couldn't get a FLIR at that time. The UTC-x seemed to be unobtainium. I found two TC-50 towards the end of my search, and was about to pull the trigger when I found TWO dealers that had UTC-x gathering
dust on the shelf ... and one of those worked with me to get BAE approval to sell to me, so I wound up going that way.
But back in May 2017, the BAE OASYS program was still not shut down yet. By around Aug/Sept 2017 the OASYS program was shut down. So, the process I went thru is not repeatable in terms of approvals.
Now, you would be looking for a used UTC-x (or T-75 or TC-50) that seems non-shady and works. And extreme diligence is required as these units are still going for over $10k and the UTC-x
for twice that. So definitely a niche within a niche sort of activity.
I was hoping the market would shift and something in this space would be more commercially available. But it did not happen.
So, we are still waiting to see if the PRG TC-50 will meet requirements of working in the field. Other than that, nothing on the horizon for the next year.
01 - Trijicon would have something to say about future prospects of them restarting manufacturing of UTC-x or UTC-xii. We heard nothing along those lines
... and availability of even the SKEET is unknown for commercial customers. Which is worse than we hoped for.
02 - LWTS-LR announcement including commercial availability. As of right now, it seems like 1-2 years while government contracts get filled is as good a guess as any.
03 - N-Vision Optics. We hoped that after a year of pushing their new Atlas (with BAE core) hand held spotter offerings ... they might announce new scopes and/or long distance thermal clipons.
They've had two long distance thermal clipons in the past ... their TC-50 and TC-50a (not to be confused with the PRG TC-50
) ... and they did announce dedicated scopes. But, posts from Max_R indicate no plan to use the BAE core for a thermal clipon in the future.
So short version is three strikes and we're out. No new long distance thermal clipon on the horizon. So what to do ? If a person really wants one
... then hunting down a used one ... or a new one gathering dust on some dealers shelf is an option. Or trying the PRG hoping it works.
But definitely not where I hoped we would be at this point
==
Oh and what is a "long distance thermal clipon" ?
One that can support at least 8x magnification on the day scope by design (i.e. at least 2x front magnification, offset by 0.5x demagnification on the rear).
And ideally one that also has collimated Risley Prisms (CRP) on the rear to allow the unit to be moved from rifle to rifle with no POI shift,
provided day and night optic are mounted within the tolerance of the CRP
on board the night optic.
Most of the thermal clipons available commercially (and even the available military ones we can buy) are designed to support 4x on the day scope. They do not use the magnify/demagnify trick.
Yes, some of them have great images and you can squeeze the day scope magnification up to 5x or even 6x .. but by design they are 4x support. The 320s are even less ... 2x for sure, squeeze to 3x.
A long distance thermal clipon can help you get yotes out to 500yds ... and hit 12 inch heated steel out to 900yds, if you are so inclined. Not every one needs them, but some do.
Especially those going after yotes in more open terrain like found on the West side of the Mississippi.
Oh and what is the "inventory" of possible used ones to go after ?
FLIR T-75
N-Vision Optics TC-50, TC-50A
BAE UTC, UTC-x
All of these are designed to support 8x or higher on the day scope by using the magnify/demagnify trick.
There are a tiny few others out there, including some made by entities outside the USA. But even less is known about those than the above units.
Back in Nov 2016, I decided to go after one. I was inspired by a thread in which IRV posted and discussed the advantages of long distance thermal clipons.
Several hide members aided in the search including surgeon_shooter and i2_technologies
I pursued all three, the UTC-x, the T-75 and the TC-50. I came close to all three. At the last minute, FLIR changed their mind and decided they didn't want to sell to civilians.
Before my search and after, they did sell to civilians but I caught them at a bad moment. Some deal involving shady export to Japan was mentioned.
But I couldn't get a FLIR at that time. The UTC-x seemed to be unobtainium. I found two TC-50 towards the end of my search, and was about to pull the trigger when I found TWO dealers that had UTC-x gathering
dust on the shelf ... and one of those worked with me to get BAE approval to sell to me, so I wound up going that way.
But back in May 2017, the BAE OASYS program was still not shut down yet. By around Aug/Sept 2017 the OASYS program was shut down. So, the process I went thru is not repeatable in terms of approvals.
Now, you would be looking for a used UTC-x (or T-75 or TC-50) that seems non-shady and works. And extreme diligence is required as these units are still going for over $10k and the UTC-x
for twice that. So definitely a niche within a niche sort of activity.
I was hoping the market would shift and something in this space would be more commercially available. But it did not happen.
So, we are still waiting to see if the PRG TC-50 will meet requirements of working in the field. Other than that, nothing on the horizon for the next year.
