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.375 Raptor Recipe
- Thread starter Gjb89
- Start date
CFEBLK might work, but I haven't tested it yet. I use cfeblk with my 230gr VLR4s, but those are a solid copper drive band design. I'm not sure how it compares to the 235gr speer.
Reloder 10x and accurate 2200 are some powders to consider if your willing to grab another powder. I'm currently testing some powders between 10x and cfeblk. They are n130 and lt32.
1680 is probably as fast as I would go in lightweight (less than 200gr) supers.
I've been reloading for a few years now, but haven't ventured into the realm of experimenting with alternate powders. Are there any resources to keep things in the realm of sanity? I see 2200 is only two steps away from CFE BLK. I might give that a shot. I use XBR8208 for my 6.5 cartridges, but that appears a bit too slow.
8208 should be good for supers. Very similar burn rate as Xterminator and a long time decent 308 powder.
As far as existing resources 375 Raptor is a dark hole. People don't seem to want to share their load data and there's not a lot of people shooting it. Black Collar Arms says their close to selling loaded ammo, but show me their online data. I think they still have the original Raptor page linked which is now a dead website. I can send you the original Raptor site data but it's also pretty sparse. Your best bet would be to just pay for quick load. When I tried Lil Gun I just approximated off my 338 Spectre data. Which I had to pull out of thin air when I started with that powder and cartridge. Load a little less than I thought I needed, load one round at a time, gun mounted on tripod with Xero tracking, aim at a good backstop, turn head away from action and pull the trigger, lol. From there, if you still have a face, work up.
Lol. I've been envisioning that testing methodology the last few days! I was really hoping to avoid it!
Quick load huh? I'll have to check that out. Ive heard of it here, but decided to try GRT. Im sure over time i'd figure out what the heck i was doing, but its worth checking out your recommendation.
I believe I've found a few links to that original load data along woth a few others throughout this site.
Thank you for the info.
James
Can't find anything on 358 Rem. 358 win perhaps? Hard to believe you can't get a download of Quickload. I'll have to rummage around my PC parts bin to see if I have an external CD drive.
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So now you just wing it based on experience? Well, that and apply the look away principles?
seems like a rough learning curve to get from simple reloader to experienced ammo creator.Ya, the only responsible thing I should tell you is use established load data or Quickload. But it doesn't leave you with much. I'll tell you what. I'll try some 8208 and report back the charges and velocity for you.So now you just wing it based on experience? Well, that and apply the look away principles?
That would be greatly appreciated, but don't waste your time and resources on it unless there is some interest on your end as well. I'm guessing my raptor is still a month or two out. Dies and other reloading components should be here within a week or so.
Nice starting point for sure. Thank you for taking some time testing and sharing it! Mind me asking what you are sending those freedom seeds down range with? 10" AR platform?
I'm a bit surprised to see 2000 ft/lbs. Thought the raptor would have
more energy
Suppressed Weapon Systems integrally suppressed barrel. 10" of rifling, 10" of baffles.
That thing is sweet. Guessing damn quiet with subs? I'm guessing a 12.5" barrel might bump it up another 50 fps, but still not very energetic.
TBH, It's actually loud as hell. I'm very surprised at how poorly it performs. With supers I can see yellow in my scope during recoil from the fireball that comes out. I'm trying to figure out some way to sell it. I think this cartridge needs to be minimum 16" barrel based on how much powder burn is happening.
I'm having the same issue with the Lee dies and a Sinclair .375 mandrel. I get a little under .001" neck tension with either the expander ball or the mandrel. I'm going to have to turn down the mandrel. Using converted 308 Lake City brass.
Sheesh. Not expected at all. Faster powder maybe to get it all combusted by the time it reaches the end? Fireball means unspent powder. No? Have you tried the raptor recipes at 375raptor? Cant recall the grains, but they were using 40ish grains of 1200r to allegedly push 235s to 2400.
I've only tried Xterminator and 8208. 45 grains of powder is a normal 308W charge. Not surprising shooting it out of a 10" barrel sends a lot of still burning powder into the suppressor and even out of the suppressor. But it's the subsonic noise that's most disappointing to me. Loudest subs I've ever heard. I think 10" of a 1.2" suppressor doesn't suppress real well
I just got it last month. I would hunt whitetail with it but there really aren't any WT where I'm at right now
How does the muzzle speed out of it compare to quickload? Maybe 1200R would get it up to the marketed speeds? Not that it's going to help the report any. Once I get the 230s running I'm going to try some 350s. Probably the hornady CX line. Suppressed of course.
I've been messing with the 375 Raptoe a couple years and found SBR SOCOM works best for supers from my 12" and 16". Flirted with CFE Black and it didn't produce the best velocities. Accurate 5744 worked well but a bit hotter than I'd like. Tried TAC, H110, N120 but none were as good as SBR SOCOM for velocity. Vihtavuori N530 is the current testing powder. I'm loading. Maker 175 and 190 TRex in old and new(Starline) 308 brass. CFE Black may be pretty good on subs. Also. Using Lee die set.
No issues with mine. I've had to tame them with AGB from Odinworks on my Caliber barrels. Also put A5 extension on lower and use a JP rifle spring and Odinworks 9mm AR Carbine buffer @ 6 Oz. to tame recoil.
Have you tried Accurate 5744? More available than SW from what I see.
Any recipe and chrono data you'd be willing to share on those supers? waiting on all the parts, but looking for a powder to start with. Since the raptor site had 235 softpoints using 1200-R, just figured Id start with that.
I saw that one. Don't have a FB account, but I'm surprised how little data there is in there! Thank you for sharing it though. It's a start.
Yeah it's all about volume with these big subs ... that's why the really quiet 450bm cans are 1.7+in diameter like the Bowers. Subsonic 400-500gr 450BM out of a 1.375 pistol 45ACP can sounds really loud.
I would also try a faster burning powder, maybe blue dot in the 13-15gr range, you get decent case fill and 100% burn rate, just watch for the pressure.
AA1680 will always be loud and generate too much gas and unburnt shit in a bolt gun especially with that little of volume
For supersonic ? Yeah you're pretty screwed at 10in barrel, I don't think theres any powder combo that will give you 100% burn and enough velocity.
It'd think it's still worth it to keep as a short range dedicaded subsonic hunting gun if you can find the right powder.
Crap...I just noticed the primers listed on raptor site are CCI 250. So large magnum. Any chance you can use CCI#34s or is too much powder for that? Trying to standardize on components if possible and use #41 for all my small platform ARs and #34 for 308 AR10. The charge weight for a 308 178 gr vs 375 175 gr seem similar. Any thoughts?
I see no reason why you would have to use Magnum primers with a charge of 40 grains of powder
Ya, I'd like to buy a 375 Magnus but to be honest I wish they made the 338 Ultra in 375. I want all the girth and length I can get.
I spoke to Ecco Machine a year ago about making a custom 375 can. Like 1.8 x 10 - 12". It would be nice to have a modular. 8"/12".That's what I was thinking. Win service rifle shows 42 gr as a max load and doesn't use magnum. Thanks for the help.
Anyone have quikload or versed in GRT able to do a sanity check for a recipe I received? This is more academic to be honest, but I'll definitely give it a shot assuming it is possible and within reason. Supposedly not a compressed load
375 Raptor
Bullet 235 Speer hotcor sp
Powder H4350
Start Charge 60
Max Charge 65-67
Expected Muzzle Velocity: 2,550–2,650 fps using 12.5" barrel
Estimated Muzzle Energy: ~2,900–3,000 foot-pounds
375 Raptor
Bullet 235 Speer hotcor sp
Powder H4350
Start Charge 60
Max Charge 65-67
Expected Muzzle Velocity: 2,550–2,650 fps using 12.5" barrel
Estimated Muzzle Energy: ~2,900–3,000 foot-pounds
yeah...that sounded a bit out there. charge weight can vary based on powder type though. Right? I didn't think that much would be possible. I also know there are a lot of people on here with far more knowledge than I have and thought it couldn't hurt to ask!
I don't know everything but I've never seen a charge weight of 60grs of H4350 in anything
lol. so I'm guessing it doesn't pass the sanity check. Got it!
***********************************************************************************
This information is provided only as a courtesy and was used in my
rifle / pistol and worked safely.
YOU are responsible for how you use this data. Use at
your own risk.
***********************************************************************************
X-Caliber 375 Raptor 12" Barrel 1-10 / Odinworks 6.8 oz. AR15 9mm Pistol buffer /
JP Ent. Large Frame Rifle Spring / SLR .875 Sentry 8 AGB /
Wilson Combat Q-Comp Muzzle Brake .458 cal.
Powder / Bullet / Primer Velocities
38.5 gr SBR SOCOM / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2337 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
39.0 gr SBR SOCOM / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2450 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
39.5 gr SBR SOCOM / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2490 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
40.0 gr SBR SOCOM / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2527 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
41.5 gr Accurate 1680 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2390 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
42.0 gr Accurate 1680 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2420 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
43.0 gr Accurate 1680 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2440 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
43.5 gr Accurate 1680 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2480 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
42.3 gr. Vihtavuori N120 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2520 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
42.6 gr. Vihtavuori N120 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2530 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
43.0 gr. Vihtavuori N120 / Maker 175 gr. TRex / CCI 34 2580 ft/s 5 shot Average Vel.
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I've stumbled across something that appears odd in GRT. It could be I've just never thought of it to be honest. I have some Speer Hot Cor 235 grain semi spitzer soft points. GRT does have a 375 raptor profile and the bullet I'm looking at loading. I noticed it has a seating depth of .104 which seems too short. I've read a lot of posts that suggest they never do less than the diameter of the bullet as seating depth. And of course, many on the other side of the aisle as well. I also read about concentricity issues by doing too little. I realize seating depth also impacts pressure. Seating deeper generally increasing pressure. Lastly, I know I have to operate within the AR10 mag capacity of 2.800".
After that, my long winded question is, is there a point where seating a bullet too deep causes an issue? Doesn't increasing the amount of jump to the lands cause pressure in of itself? Assuming I stay within pressure limits for the cartridge, is there a difference?
I don't believe bullets normally have a seating depth listed. So if you have a bullet that doesn't list or you can't find a seating depth, is the normal procedure to load to max length of the magazine?
After that, my long winded question is, is there a point where seating a bullet too deep causes an issue? Doesn't increasing the amount of jump to the lands cause pressure in of itself? Assuming I stay within pressure limits for the cartridge, is there a difference?
I don't believe bullets normally have a seating depth listed. So if you have a bullet that doesn't list or you can't find a seating depth, is the normal procedure to load to max length of the magazine?
I assume what you're reading on GRT means .104" of the bullet shank is in the case. Yes, that's wildly too shallow. I would seat the 235gr so the base of the bullet meets the neck shoulder junction. It seems like one of the issues with the Raptor is case capacity. With the powders we're using and the lighter bullets, we're maxing out with some of these powders. The deeper you seat the bullet, the less case capacity you will have. So maybe that's why this load you found on GRT was trying to push the bullet way forward in the neck.
Seating a bullet deeper in the case doesn't increase pressure by itself. In a conventional cartridge like 243 or 6.5CM, seating a bullet so that you have a 10 thou jump vs a 50 thou jump will change your MV because of f distance to the lands. You will have a higher MV closer to the lands. Seating less deeply in the case. Higher MV with the same powder charge can only mean higher pressure.
If you're getting higher pressure from seating deeper than you could be compressing powder. That's when seating deeper will increase pressure. But that's at the extreme end of the seating deeper thing. I shot a seating depth test with the 400gr Makers from 2.650 to 2.800. The MV didn't really change. But I was using a tiny charge weight. 13gr of Lil Gun.
The 375 Raptor has a strangely short neck. It's a PITA to trim all that back from 308 length and it pretty much fixes one seating depth for the lighter bullets in my mind. There really isn't a lot of room with the 235gr to seat longer or deeper. And you're nowhere close to the lands with those bullets so the jump to the lands is going to be a mile whether you seat out 20 thou or keep the base of the bullet at the bottom of the neck.
Seating a bullet deeper in the case doesn't increase pressure by itself. In a conventional cartridge like 243 or 6.5CM, seating a bullet so that you have a 10 thou jump vs a 50 thou jump will change your MV because of f distance to the lands. You will have a higher MV closer to the lands. Seating less deeply in the case. Higher MV with the same powder charge can only mean higher pressure.
If you're getting higher pressure from seating deeper than you could be compressing powder. That's when seating deeper will increase pressure. But that's at the extreme end of the seating deeper thing. I shot a seating depth test with the 400gr Makers from 2.650 to 2.800. The MV didn't really change. But I was using a tiny charge weight. 13gr of Lil Gun.
The 375 Raptor has a strangely short neck. It's a PITA to trim all that back from 308 length and it pretty much fixes one seating depth for the lighter bullets in my mind. There really isn't a lot of room with the 235gr to seat longer or deeper. And you're nowhere close to the lands with those bullets so the jump to the lands is going to be a mile whether you seat out 20 thou or keep the base of the bullet at the bottom of the neck.
Here is what I'm talking about. It appears that it takes that COAL and subtracts the case length. Then seats the bullet just enough so the bullet length plus the case length equals the COAL. It even warns of the bullets seating depth being too low. So if I push it back .1 (an arbitrary amount) the warning goes away. But, is there some kind of standard minimum seating depth that should be adhered to? An since it now has a larger jump since the COAL is 2.7, is there any issue? It doesn't sound like there is. Thanks for the help.
Just chambered my barrel that I’ve had laying around for a couple years. Didn’t really plan on supers but will play with them for the sake of science. 400gr makers and cutting edge lazers along with 390atips will be what I play with most
