OK, I just saw the muzzle break and optic.Nope, the devil is in the details
That a2 is on there as I was running a BFA up there for recent training event. I removed the BFA for the pic.
When I'm actually shooting that gun it has a suppressor on it and moves the muzzle blast several inches farther forward.
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Night Vision New Armasight Units (Sidekick and Jockey 640s)
- Thread starter wigwamitus
- Start date
So would you recommend the Jockey 640 over the RH25 which just dropped in price to $4k?Ok, here's some first impressions on the Jockey 640.
I shot it some
I looked around with it some
I compared it to the 10 year olde Armasight Apollo 640 ... an older "grand-cousin".
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Note its HOT in SW MO these days - and so terrible thermal conditions !
I used a mk 12-ish with an ATACR 1-8x
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I day zeroed (the green dot) and I night collimated - the handwarmer. I'm a little bit left - IDK what the "click value" is but it isn't 0.1 inches.
Collimating was super easy. You line up the "collimating reticle" with your day scope reticle - done. For a decade - we have to guess and guess and guess and shoot. No longer !! Now we line em up and shoot to verify.
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Here's a shot of the mineral cube and salt cube on the ground around the corral ...
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And here's a shot of a cow ...
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Here's a side by side shot of the Jockey and the Apollo (my current Apollo is a 640 (30hz).
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And here's a shot of the cubes by the corral with the Apollo (the cow had moved)
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Pros and Cons
The Jockey is small
The apollo is about 50% longer than the Jockey
Judging by my mk1eb I'd say the Apollo could see more detail
Neither of them are a voodoo-S but they can get the job done. I usually run the Apollo on the 22lr and counting the earlier apollo I got back in 2014 - I've killed > 200 critters with Apollos ... mostly mice - but plenty of coons and opossum and other. I shot eley 40gr(or36gr) subsonic HP.
Both have manual focus. WIth the Apollo not much changes in the middle of the adjustment range ... only at the 2 ends. With the Jockey its much more sensitve and a small turn at any point thru the range gets you some visible adjustment.
This is a newer Apollo and has auto-nuc, so does the Jockey.
The jockey does NOT exhibit the "jerkiness" I experienced with the sidekick when the SK was first released - so that good !!!
The Jockey seems to be using a modified SK housing. The Jockey has a larger front lens and a different rear lens - a collimating - non-adjustable lens since its a clipon. The jockey has a double length battery compartment so can use a 16650 or 2xc123 without a extension cap.
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I would not rule out using the Jockey for critter control - the small size is the most attractive aspect to me. I could even run it on the 10.3 carbine in front on an nx8 1-8x ...
I hope they keep hammering away improving the image - the upgrades have improved the SK.
The SK is way better than the breach. Breach starts getting fuzzy above 50yds ... and sees blobs above 100yds. The SK is still clear out to 200yds which is a far as I can see on my land - I'm in the Ozarks, in the Mark Twain National Forest. But the SK isn't up to the level of a VoodooS/Skeet/Nox18 etc.
I haven't seen the latest upgrade to the SK software, but I suspect the Jockey's have that. The auto-nuc frequency is much reduced (still higher than the Apollo).
The focus is better on the Jockey (vs Apollo). Collimating is WAY better. WIth a little practice you can collimate the Jockey in seconds.
Battery compartment is better on the Jockey as well.
I briefly had a T&E Contractor 75mm 4.8x TWS last year and I thought it was great - it seemed to be in the OASYS ball park, so I'm not sure why the newer models aren't up to that standard. I'm sure the larger lens on the 4.8x helps.
I've been out 3 nights with it - but we hit 101F yesterday so not ideal conditions ...
Ask away if any questions and I'll try to answer.
As a scanner, either head mounted or handheld, I'd go with the RH25 based on the iray core > armasight core (at least based on current "tuning" on the armasight core).
As a clipon, its pretty close. I'd have to run them side by side to be sure. The sizes are pretty similar, the Jockey probably has a better/more repeatable mount (ADM). The Jockey manual collimation process is faster and probably more accurate. So the jockey probably out ranges the RH25 as a clipon. But its hard for me to get beyond 200yds on my current property.
If the recent Federal bans on iray and wuhan global sensors are real and are enforced, then there could come a day when the iray's won't be supported any more. So I'd think about that.
Has anyone made a good review video yet? I mean, I am assuming it's the sidekick in a different but similar housing and slightly different because it's demagnified. But I'd still like to see something before I drop that much coin.
I'm ignorant, is the RH25 demagnified? If it's not doesn't that make it not a very good clipon? If it is that would make it a bad scanner looking at with your mark 1 eyeballs? I wonder why they dropped it $1,400 bucks haha.
If I had to guess I'd say it performed well until it didn't lol.RH25, software demag, image gets smaller ...
Call UNV and ask em why they lowered price !!
So how many have jockeys now? I wanna set up a 1-8 with a top dot but I need to know if anyone is running one of these at 1.93" height because I like that and I want the jockey to line up. Otherwise I'll have to go with standard height which I think is 1.5 something.
You can always mount it to a QD riser. 1/2" risers are the most popular height.
I'm assuming you mean a riser that I can mount the optic directly to? Or do you just mean mounting the ADM QD mount it comes with to another riser that has a pic rail.
He means the latter - rails on rails to get the net center of the jockey closer to the planned day scope center.
Here's an example:
1.31 (utc x center) plus 0.5 riser = 1.81 center to match up pretty closely to that ELCAN MGO center.
Here's an example:
1.31 (utc x center) plus 0.5 riser = 1.81 center to match up pretty closely to that ELCAN MGO center.
Got ya, would be nice if ADM just made a 1.93 QD mount for the jockey but I will look around for 1/2" pic risers.He means the latter - rails on rails to get the net center of the jockey closer to the planned day scope center.
Here's an example:
1.31 (utc x center) plus 0.5 riser = 1.81 center to match up pretty closely to that ELCAN MGO center.
Any more time spent with the Jockey? I'd like to side by side comparison with the RH25. I definitely like the "collimation" just line up a reticle process. Seems like that would be so simple yet almost no one uses it.Jockey on Mk18ish (Colt upper) ... it does fit !!
I found some risers, can someone with a jockey measure the mount? Like to try and get a one close to the QD mount base size, thanks!
Can anyone comment as to whether or not the Jockey is useful as a hand scanner also, or is the screen too small (being a dedicated clip-on)?
Well I have so so eyesight that requires a diopter to correct (Jockey does not have that) and surprisingly I can see the numbers for settings etc in the unit. I can do some scanning with it, but I would not say it is necessarily great at that.
I'll be purchased my fist thermal. I've found deal on a 320 jockey. I'll also be adding a sidekick when funds allow. Am I going to extremely disappointed I didn't get the 640. I have a razor 1-6, atacr 1-8/4-16, and nx8 2.5-20 for it's use. I have zero thermal experience and 200 yard max coyote hunting.
It will work just fine for what you plan on using it for. The clarity will be better with the 640. I have no issue seeing pigs out at 200 meters with the 320.
Just out of curiosity, why do you think you will be disappointed with the 320 if you do not have any experience with any thermals? If you are going to judge it on screen shots and videos with people using $8k or higher cosing thermals, then yes. You will be disappointed with both.
Have you looked on YouTube for videos of the 320 and the 640?
I've watched every video available for the jockey and sidekick. Obviously it's hard to judge on board recording or though a camera. I don't expect vudoo quality imagery. If I can identify a coyote at 150-200 yards I'd be happy. If I need to spend the money I will but $1700 for a 320 jockey is tempting. Again I have zero experience and somewhat unknown expectations.
I have a 640 sidekick. It was the second version with the first software update. I set up a handful of settings for different color pallets and environments. It does not compare from an image perspective to an IR300 Patrol I had, specifically the black/white hot.
However, it's a 1/3 of the size, images which I would say are really high quality for the cost, and is something I am very happy with. I use it handheld and bridged with a 14. It's Patrol style mode, similar to a COTI is really nice.
It won't ever look like a SKEETIR or an RH25. But it also has proven to have solid support with more updates on the way. I can easily detect my German shepherd as a dog through a couple hundred yards in the woods. I regularly go look for porcupines in trees but just can't find them in my yard (which is a good thing).
The guys at SOK are great to deal with.
However, it's a 1/3 of the size, images which I would say are really high quality for the cost, and is something I am very happy with. I use it handheld and bridged with a 14. It's Patrol style mode, similar to a COTI is really nice.
It won't ever look like a SKEETIR or an RH25. But it also has proven to have solid support with more updates on the way. I can easily detect my German shepherd as a dog through a couple hundred yards in the woods. I regularly go look for porcupines in trees but just can't find them in my yard (which is a good thing).
The guys at SOK are great to deal with.
Yeah, thats cool. Would even be better if they could do that with the womens.
Would be a whole lot of RMA's.
Any updates/videos of the jockey 640 performance? I'd love to actually see some footage against other known units like the rh25
Here is a review I just finished recently. It doesn't show it against other clip ons, but I did record footage and a short coyote hunt at almost 100% humidity.
Jockey Video
Jockey Video
It is decent. They include a scanner eyecup. It can be used with or without the eyecup. For me, yes it can be used as a scanner. It is small and light.
So the product page say for 223/556 rifles. Anyone here that owns the 320 tried it on a 308 yet? I have a mr762 setup I've been wanting to put a thermal clip on on.
Do you think the sidekick 640 would work for coyote hunting, scanning up to 500 yards out? Would only need reliable detection to 500 yards in open terrain.
Really depends on conditions, but 500y is pushing it for most true 1x native monoculars. SkeetIRx struggles at those distances on coyotes too as example.
You're better off with a 35mm spotter for the added detection range.
That is most likely the case. Currently use a 25mm 320 that works well but only an 8.8deg fov.
I'm not sure ...but I had no problems spotting turkey heads through tree foliage out to 100+. The heads are the size of golf balls and the trees started about 5yds from me before opening up a bit and then getting dense again.
"Detection" = "Something is there" ...
"reliable detection" = "less than 1% false positive or false negatives"
I lean towards yes, but its not a binary switch.
Depends on experience of user
Depends on activity of critter
Depends on thermal conditions
Depends on how long you have
If there are lots of hot objects clutter up the landscape, stumps, rocks, etc. tougher.
If you aren't used to looking at critters at night through thermal, toughter
If critter not moving, tougher.
If lots of water in the air, tougher.
If you only have 1s before the critter disappears, tougher.
But "something is there" yes.
Then if you pull up the Theon ELR clipon in front of a 15x scope and put that on the hot object, PID will be possible. Or PoT "M"
Or even Nox-35
For Nox-18, depends. But experienced user can PID yote at 500yds if it is moving and yotes usually are. Especially if its vocalizing.
In Noah's rain, tougher, but I've PID'd 2 yotes in Noah's rain at 200yds and I couldn't see any terrain.
If it was me, and I was hunting yotes in open country, I'd get a Nox35 as a spotter. Best 4x digial I ever did see. Sharp edges. I was super impressed and I've seen a lot of thermals and most of the Oasys cored ones and the N35 on 4x is a unicorn.
If not bridging, then this
A MUM mount to a dove tail that can be offset to the left or right from a single dovetail mount, to align with either eye.
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If bridging, then this critter, which just mounts to the MUM mount and presents a dove tail to the bridge.
www.modarmory.com
A MUM mount to a dove tail that can be offset to the left or right from a single dovetail mount, to align with either eye.
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If bridging, then this critter, which just mounts to the MUM mount and presents a dove tail to the bridge.
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for Integrated Components Night Vision Helmet Mount D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mounting System™ - MOD Armory
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mount allows for QD function of dual PVS-14 mounting bridge for Flir Breach PTQ136, & other devices.
www.modarmory.com
Thank you!If not bridging, then this
A MUM mount to a dove tail that can be offset to the left or right from a single dovetail mount, to align with either eye.
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If bridging, then this critter, which just mounts to the MUM mount and presents a dove tail to the bridge.
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for Integrated Components Night Vision Helmet Mount D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mounting System™ - MOD Armory
MOD Armory D14 Dovetail Adapter for D-14 Dual PVS-14 Mount allows for QD function of dual PVS-14 mounting bridge for Flir Breach PTQ136, & other devices.
We would suggest the Armasight MNVD / Sidekick Helmet Mount #183 for mounting a Sidekick to a helmet without a bridge.
Not sure we ever had an issue with them. The KeepPower 2100mah work great.
The Jockey? Primarily because the area on the housing that connects to the mount cannot support significant recoil.
I don’t think there’s a commercial TWS we haven’t broken over thousands of rounds pig hunting. Mind you these are hard miles and I expect stuff to break down other repeated abuses on belt fed machine guns bouncing around in a SxS for tens of thousands of miles and thousands of hours.
I don’t get too wrapped up in recoil ratings on thermals. Any reputable manufacturer will fix it, especially the American made brands.
+100 agree with this advice. A 1x scanner works well for walking and short range detection, but for open country scanning nothing beats a 35 mm unit.
I have experience using a friend's Sidekick as well as SkeetIRx, in addition to various 24 and 35 mm units, for scanning purposes. We all agreed that a Trijicon IR Hunter or NOX in 35 mm were by far superior for scanning open fields out to the 500+ yard mark. They have just the right balance of magnification and pixel density mixed with the BAE cores that makes them work so well for this purpose.
