Department of Education.. buh bye!!!

sirhrmechanic

sirhrmechanic

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Feb 23, 2010
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The Snobbiest Town in The Snobbiest State in the N
#1
www.breitbart.com

Trump Calls for Department of Education to Be 'Closed Immediately'

President Donald Trump said he wanted the Department of Education to be "closed immediately," describing it as a "big con job."
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com

This is pretty unequivocal….

And how long have we been saying here on SH that the Dept of Ed. Is a corrupt scam and has destroyed education.

Put education in the states and communities!!!

I can hear the Rheeeeee from the NEA already…. Then again, those commies may see this as an opportunity and attempt to take over the states with their huge union-dues-paid pockets.

What was the saying in 1991? The Bear is dead, but now the woods are full of snakes?

The level of vigilance at the state level and among localities is going to have to get turned up to 11 so as to not get their schools taken over by the brainwashers…

And at least 2 generations of teachers and administrators are now brainwashed, greenie socialists. And many dumber than sacks of hair… there to teach the tests, stamp out critical thinking and push DEI and climate BS as education.

While this is a welcome move, it’s also time to make sure it doesn’t end up wayyyyy worse under some whackjob state legislators and administrators.

Sirhr

Sirhr
 
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#4
To be fair- the DOE has always been a loser and ever since its inception our nation's rankings have plummeted compared to comparable countries in standardized testings with mathematics & science.

To that degree- the DOE has never lived up to its charge/purpose so I'm oddly ok with this push. That said- I hope that the employees can be moved to other (more worthwhile) federal agencies too.
 
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#6
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
Fuck that. They can learn to code.
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I understand the sentiment but.. nope sticking with my previous comment.

The "learn to code" mantra came from Silicon Valley (private sector employees) in response to coal mines being shut down during the previous administration's early policies (pretty sure I'm remembering that accurately).

If so- it was certainly tone deaf and a self perceived elitist type of remark but that said, it has very little to do with the "rank & file" DOE employees..

-LD
 
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#7
LuckyDuck said:
I understand the sentiment but.. nope sticking with my previous comment.

The "learn to code" mantra came from Silicon Valley (private sector employees) in response to coal mines being shut down during the previous administration's early policies (pretty sure I'm remembering that accurately).

If so- it was certainly tone deaf and a self perceived elitist type of remark but that said, it has very little to do with the "rank & file" DOE employees..

-LD
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So you perceive the government employees as more special animals. Got it.
 
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#8
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
So you perceive the government employees as more special animals. Got it.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's what I'm saying at all- at least not what I'm trying to convey.

You likely see things through your own lens (which are shaped by your own experiences) and I get that, nothing to argue there.

But there is an element of empathy regarding this topic (to my mind at least) also.

Is there opportunities to trim the proverbial fat in federal workers? Of course there is. But despite the DOE being a decades old failure (which it has been) surely even you understand that there's folks that work there that have nothing to do with the politics and have spent their entire careers doing support type of things (facilities, IT, HR, whatever) for no reason other than it was a job. These aren't the folks pushing DOE policies just keeping the wheels turning.

Should certain folks be held accountable for the direction/misappropriation of their position? I'd argue yes- but am I going to provide some sort of blanket "all employees at DOE are crap and should be fired" argument? I'd say no. What does the folks that work in say the mailroom (as an example) have to do with anything worth getting riled up about?

-LD
 
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#10
So the people that worked in the local grocery store, gas station, restaurants that lost their jobs because they shut down the mine are any different? Well, to be fair. They were different in that they were poor people in some backwoods West Virginia towns that no one gives a rats ass about. They probably only lost a double wide trailer and a ten year old car instead of a nice home in Virginia and a new Denali.
 
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#13
In VT the full-bore progressives want total state control of daycare through college… with the curriculum and everything else decided by the state… including at daycares. They will stamp out home schooling…. Put any private daycares out of business. Because they want a village to raise kids into good screaming demented blue haired progressives. Aka commies.

Dept of Education or not.. they are doing it. So while I think about 2/3rds of states will make this into a wonderful thing… the kids in 1/3rd are going to lose. Along with the economies.

It will mean parents and jobs go to states that have the best schools. So 1/3rd of states will be economically and educationally-FUBAR… and 2/3rds will be in a golden age.

But the progressives don’t care, they will take control of the ashes as long as they have control. And try and tax their way into prosperity.

All in all… I do trust states and regions and parents to do what America led the world in… educating all its kids which it has done great for 200 out of 250 years… until the Dept of “Mind Control” came along. Make the one room schoolhouse great again!!! Bring back the school marm!

Sirhr
 
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#16
LuckyDuck said:
I don't think that's what I'm saying at all- at least not what I'm trying to convey.

You likely see things through your own lens (which are shaped by your own experiences) and I get that, nothing to argue there.

But there is an element of empathy regarding this topic (to my mind at least) also.

Is there opportunities to trim the proverbial fat in federal workers? Of course there is. But despite the DOE being a decades old failure (which it has been) surely even you understand that there's folks that work there that have nothing to do with the politics and have spent their entire careers doing support type of things (facilities, IT, HR, whatever) for no reason other than it was a job. These aren't the folks pushing DOE policies just keeping the wheels turning.

Should certain folks be held accountable for the direction/misappropriation of their position? I'd argue yes- but am I going to provide some sort of blanket "all employees at DOE are crap and should be fired" argument? I'd say no. What does the folks that work in say the mailroom (as an example) have to do with anything worth getting riled up about?

-LD
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I don't believe there is any significant number of people in DOE who are as you said "that work there that have nothing to do with the politics". Maybe there are 1 or 2... maybe. I guarantee you that 98% or more voted biden though, so they go along with the liberal insanity and that is what has hurt us so badly.

Bringing educational control to the state level won't hurt at all, and can only help, as parents and citizens are a ton closer to that level vs someone in DC. Ultimately, no matter where the source of power is, parents have to want their kids to get good education and do their part to make that happen. Taking it from FED to state level just allows the parents to do that who want to, which is most.
 
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#17
sirhrmechanic said:
In VT the full-bore progressives want total state control of daycare through college… with the curriculum and everything else decided by the state… including at daycares. They will stamp out home schooling…. Put any private daycares out of business. Because they want a village to raise kids into good screaming demented blue haired progressives. Aka commies.

Dept of Education or not.. they are doing it. So while I think about 2/3rds of states will make this into a wonderful thing… the kids in 1/3rd are going to lose. Along with the economies.

It will mean parents and jobs go to states that have the best schools. So 1/3rd of states will be economically and educationally-FUBAR… and 2/3rds will be in a golden age.

But the progressives don’t care, they will take control of the ashes as long as they have control. And try and tax their way into prosperity.

All in all… I do trust states and regions and parents to do what America led the world in… educating all its kids which it has done great for 200 out of 250 years… until the Dept of “Mind Control” came along. Make the one room schoolhouse great again!!! Bring back the school marm!

Sirhr
Click to expand...

DOE has been talking about taking over daycare for years. They just hadn't got there yet.

This really only changes the fact that the money will go a lot farther without a bloated federal agency to pay for.
 
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#19
sirhrmechanic said:
In VT the full-bore progressives want total state control of daycare through college… with the curriculum and everything else decided by the state… including at daycares. They will stamp out home schooling…. Put any private daycares out of business. Because they want a village to raise kids into good screaming demented blue haired progressives. Aka commies.

Dept of Education or not.. they are doing it. So while I think about 2/3rds of states will make this into a wonderful thing… the kids in 1/3rd are going to lose. Along with the economies.

It will mean parents and jobs go to states that have the best schools. So 1/3rd of states will be economically and educationally-FUBAR… and 2/3rds will be in a golden age.

But the progressives don’t care, they will take control of the ashes as long as they have control. And try and tax their way into prosperity.
Click to expand...

You'll have to explain to me how this is any different than what is already happening and been happening for the last 40+ years...
 
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#21
supercorndogs said:
We loose teachers here to grocery stores because they can go make the same money and not have to deal all the ongoing ED bullshit. Which in my opnion is mostly just a way for admistrators to retire and make more money working from home a couple days per week.
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That's the truth. Even if one is generous and says well, they don't work in the summer; they still in many cases make almost minimum wage. And this is why you get the green/magenta/blurple haired freaks teaching children. People need to realize that their child's sucess starts 1) at home, 2) at school.
 
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#22
BytorJr said:
That's the truth. Even if one is generous and says well, they don't work in the summer; they still in many cases make almost minimum wage. And this is why you get the green/magenta/blurple haired freaks teaching children. People need to realize that their child's sucess starts 1) at home, 2) at school.
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They get paid better in some places than others. There is always the question should it be looked at by the daily rate or the gross pay as contract range from 160-225 days. For example lots of the hub ub in CO over teacher wages was when schools went to a 4 day week. 60 days were taken of teacher contracts but they wanted the same gross pay. Which seems unfair on its face, but the time with students was not reduced and the requirements of what they taught were not reduced.

Schools can still fully function with zero funding from the fed. That also gave the fed zero input on what and how the Schools taught and operated. Access to the money printers is what school want. So they jump through the fed hoops. Many people working at schools do nothing more than document how fedral requirements have been met and apply for fedral money.

Licensing forces places to higher freaks and otherwise 7nemployable college graduates when they can't find someone else with a license.
 
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#23
Shit, that's the same in muni-government. If the city knows what it's doing it will hire a public works director, not to primarily manage "public works", but as a master grant application writer and compliance officer. I know my little burg has completely rebuilt both or our major arteries and the adjacent storm water systems with probably 90% from grant funds through state and fed. There is simply no way we would have the money to do it. There's probably over a million dollars in soft costs for all the engineering and compliance.

Block grants for public works would be 1000% more effective, but then they wouldn't have total control. Our government pays through the nose for total control over things we actually need, and write blank checks to themselves for all the things that don't.

If DJT can reform this in four years he will be one of the greatest Presidents in American history.
 
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#25
Sean the Nailer said:
So, what I hear you saying is, when I'm getting groceries and paying at the cashier with a debit card then ask for $100.00 'cash-back' that they now won't have to pull out their phone, switch it to calculator mode, to work out what the new amount is going to be to enter onto the keypad?

THERE's a step up.
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What makes you think they can count? They know how to teach common core math which produces an incorrect answer and rewards the effort. They’ll give you $98 and expect praise.
 
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#26
Sean the Nailer said:
So, what I hear you saying is, when I'm getting groceries and paying at the cashier with a debit card then ask for $100.00 'cash-back' that they now won't have to pull out their phone, switch it to calculator mode, to work out what the new amount is going to be to enter onto the keypad?

THERE's a step up.
Click to expand...

I pay cash almost exclusively when I am traveling(so every week). The retardation I have seen with basic math skills is ATTROCIOUS.

Worst one was I think my bill was $15.25... I gave the guy a 20, he hits 20, then I say "oh shit I have a quarter, here ya go"... he goes "what? uh how do I deal with this I already pushed the $20 button". I said "you give me a $5 back instead of 4.75" and he says "how did you do that math so fast" and "I need to get the manager up here to ok this"... The look the manager shot me was "this kid is retarded ON A GOOD DAY let alone today"... LOL.

I have had them tell me "you already gave me to much and now you're giving me more, I dont understand"... yea because I dont want 97c in change to carry around for the next 3 days, give me a fucking dollar.
 
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#27
rjacobs said:
You'll have to explain to me how this is any different than what is already happening and been happening for the last 40+ years...
Click to expand...

It’s not…. But it’s turned up to 11 here as we have a fucking veto-proof prog. Majority that wants us to be the Petri dish and precedent-setter for every fucked up liberal idea out there.

Believe me… this is just the test kitchen. And it needs a flamethrower!!!!
 
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#28
rjacobs said:
I pay cash almost exclusively when I am traveling(so every week). The retardation I have seen with basic math skills is ATTROCIOUS.

Worst one was I think my bill was $15.25... I gave the guy a 20, he hits 20, then I say "oh shit I have a quarter, here ya go"... he goes "what? uh how do I deal with this I already pushed the $20 button". I said "you give me a $5 back instead of 4.75" and he says "how did you do that math so fast" and "I need to get the manager up here to ok this"... The look the manager shot me was "this kid is retarded ON A GOOD DAY let alone today"... LOL.

I have had them tell me "you already gave me to much and now you're giving me more, I dont understand"... yea because I dont want 97c in change to carry around for the next 3 days, give me a fucking dollar.
Click to expand...
common happening
 
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#29
DarnYankeeUSMC said:
So the people that worked in the local grocery store, gas station, restaurants that lost their jobs because they shut down the mine are any different? Well, to be fair. They were different in that they were poor people in some backwoods West Virginia towns that no one gives a rats ass about. They probably only lost a double wide trailer and a ten year old car instead of a nice home in Virginia and a new Denali.
Click to expand...
Not only that, but those people in those local grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants and mines worked their asses off, regardless of their political beliefs.

The vast majority of the "people" in the doe rested on the laurels of their political beliefs, which went a long way toward "guaranteeing" their paychecks, positions and advancement opportunities, right up until three weeks ago. No sympathy for them.
 
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#30
rjacobs said:
I pay cash almost exclusively when I am traveling(so every week). The retardation I have seen with basic math skills is ATTROCIOUS.

Worst one was I think my bill was $15.25... I gave the guy a 20, he hits 20, then I say "oh shit I have a quarter, here ya go"... he goes "what? uh how do I deal with this I already pushed the $20 button". I said "you give me a $5 back instead of 4.75" and he says "how did you do that math so fast" and "I need to get the manager up here to ok this"... The look the manager shot me was "this kid is retarded ON A GOOD DAY let alone today"... LOL.

I have had them tell me "you already gave me to much and now you're giving me more, I dont understand"... yea because I dont want 97c in change to carry around for the next 3 days, give me a fucking dollar.
Click to expand...
My first job was as a courtesy clerk (grocery bagger) at the local Albertson’s. One of the few joys was calculating the correct change before the checker could enter the numbers into the register. I barely lasted the summer before finding more lucrative work…
 
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#33
supercorndogs said:
The only thing that is going to change in most states is where the money technically comes from. I don't know how things are everywhere but the school board here has been discussing the end of the dept of Ed since President Trump we reelected.
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Most of school budgets are funded by local property tax. They also get subsidized by some state funding and states from federal funding. But the federal money comes with strings attached. Like dei and all the other nonsense. Cut the strings.
 
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#34
I think it should be a State issue. I always worked in the private sector, but tried like hell to get schools to start focusing on the trades. As such, I ended up on a few advisory boards and got to see some of the hoops schools had to jump through to get DOE money. When your school district has more administrative expenditures and staff than teachers, something is wrong. I'm not the least bit that our students are failing, that's not where we are throwing the money. The other thing that absolutely has to go is teacher's unions. Then develop teaching metrics and hold the teachers responsible for their (the students) performance. If you suck at teaching, then go do something else.

I don't know how many times I've proposed metrics, only to get push back regarding how you can't hold the 'teacher' or 'school' responsible. I wish I could have found a job in corporate life where I could succeed even when I failed most of the time.

I am willing to bet some coin that if you get rid of the unions, get rid of 2/3rds of administrators, and get rid of the bad teachers, we would start graduating top performing students.

/RANTOFF
 
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#36
P-Squared said:
I think it should be a State issue. I always worked in the private sector, but tried like hell to get schools to start focusing on the trades. As such, I ended up on a few advisory boards and got to see some of the hoops schools had to jump through to get DOE money. When your school district has more administrative expenditures and staff than teachers, something is wrong. I'm not the least bit that our students are failing, that's not where we are throwing the money. The other thing that absolutely has to go is teacher's unions. Then develop teaching metrics and hold the teachers responsible for their (the students) performance. If you suck at teaching, then go do something else.

I don't know how many times I've proposed metrics, only to get push back regarding how you can't hold the 'teacher' or 'school' responsible. I wish I could have found a job in corporate life where I could succeed even when I failed most of the time.

I am willing to bet some coin that if you get rid of the unions, get rid of 2/3rds of administrators, and get rid of the bad teachers, we would start graduating top performing students.

/RANTOFF
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The falling off of US education also coincides with millions of illegal immigrants flooding our school system.

There are teacher unions that are a problem. I am sure there are some that are not, and there are many places where there is no teachers union of any kind.

A big problem with teaching trades is licensing. Why would a skilled tradesman want to go back to college to get a BA, then go through the trouble of getting a teaching license, just to make less money and listen to people shit all over them because a bunch of students that showed up their teens not speaking the language are dragging down everyone's scores.

The admistration pay is like government fraud at its best, at least around here. The next superintendent always makes more that the guy before him. First year as a super, doesn't matter.
 
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#37
Good. Give the power back to the states. Hopefully they do better with public education.

Fun story: I wanted to create a restricted endowment for a local school system to support the trades and arts departments. Two mostly unrelated things, but programs that I believe add value to a community. After much back and forth between my people and the school system, I decided to not create the endowment due to the school wanting it to be unrestricted.

What they wanted was to be able to pump more money into sportsball programs. Ummm, no. Fuck sportsball.

I gave the money to St. Jude’s and the Shriners Children’s hospital instead. Maybe I’ll try again if the DOE is abolished.
 
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#38
I taught in a small secondary school in rural Wyoming for 30 years. I started out teaching traditional industrial arts (woods, metals, and drafting), and then I migrated to informational technologies. I never did have any use for the DOE at the federal level (other than vocational grant money), or at the state level for that matter. Some of the posts here make me glad I taught in Wyoming instead of where some of you guys live.

Mr. P-Squared, I was at a Vocational Advisory Committee Meeting about 20 years ago when a friend of mine from the private sector offered some sage advice. He told our administrators that if the school would teach students how to get off the couch, pull their pants up, turn their cap around, and how to tell time, and he would teach them the rest.
 
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#43
Here we have other taxes to fund schools. Still doesn't touch the fed money they pull in though.

It's not so much that their budgets need slashed as they need spending oversight by people who care about tax payer money. What you woukd find is lots waste I am sure.

If you just slash budgets they are just going take the money from the kids and give it to the bullshit.

My grandfather was director of transportation then superindent of a district in Denver in the 1970s. What he found was lots of corruption. For example the former transportation director was buying new tires for all the busses every year. He was also buying the cheapest tires you could buy and paying the price for premium tires.

When he took over as superindent he had 8 or 12 secretaries. And they each had their own office in a couple divided rooms. He noticed all they seemed to do was talk on the phone. He took out the dividing walls, they all quit and he didn't rehire a single position.

One night on his way home, a guy pulled his car door open at a stop and stuck a knife to his throat. He managed to kick the guy while only getting a little cut. He always figured it was for pulling back the curtains on the corruption. Thinking they tried to kill him in a robbery gone wrong scenario.

He always locked his car doors after that.
 
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#48
hlee said:
For better or worse, the courts have ruled that a taxpayer benefits from an educated populace, whether the taxpayer has a student in the Ed system or not.
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Sure, I understand the economic argument behind it, and even mostly agree with it.

I don't agree with the amount of money they collect to do it, and how that money is spent.
 
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#49
LuckyDuck said:
I don't think that's what I'm saying at all- at least not what I'm trying to convey.

You likely see things through your own lens (which are shaped by your own experiences) and I get that, nothing to argue there.

But there is an element of empathy regarding this topic (to my mind at least) also.

Is there opportunities to trim the proverbial fat in federal workers? Of course there is. But despite the DOE being a decades old failure (which it has been) surely even you understand that there's folks that work there that have nothing to do with the politics and have spent their entire careers doing support type of things (facilities, IT, HR, whatever) for no reason other than it was a job. These aren't the folks pushing DOE policies just keeping the wheels turning.

Should certain folks be held accountable for the direction/misappropriation of their position? I'd argue yes- but am I going to provide some sort of blanket "all employees at DOE are crap and should be fired" argument? I'd say no. What does the folks that work in say the mailroom (as an example) have to do with anything worth getting riled up about?

-LD
Click to expand...
All irrelevant IMO. No emotion. All business. What happens to the employees when any business performs so poorly, it goes out of business. They find a new job. Nothing different here. IMO this is about trimming the fat not politics.
 
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