.223 - 5.56

#1,251
JerkyFreak said:
With your 26" barrel you should be able to comfortably get the velocity to around 2910. Then you can try 1000 yards...

Don't know if you have the case capacity though.
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Not with N150 unfortunately. If I used a drop tube I could probably fit a couple more tenths...or if I went to Lapua or LC brass I could probably get over 25gr fairly easily. Starline brass is thick, and I'm handicapping myself with it.

I don't think N150 is going to be optimal for really squeezing all of the potential velocity out of a .223 anyway. I just wanted to test it out since I was sitting on a lot of it, and my old stand-by .223 powder (Reloader 15) wasn't really impressive with this bullet.

Fortunately for me, 99% of my shooting is at 650 yards and in.
 
#1,252
A friend who uses his in Tac so a 3000fps max uses N135 and another guy I know uses N140 so those might be a better place to get more velocity. I was hoping N150 so I could cross use with the .308 easier.
 
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#1,253
Rob01 said:
A friend who uses his in Tac so a 3000fps max uses N135 and another guy I know uses N140 so those might be a better place to get more velocity. I was hoping N150 so I could cross use with the .308 easier.
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I'm interested in a VV powder that would do well in 223 and 308 also. I see a lot of people sub N140 for varget, which works well in both of them, but there are quite a few that use N150 in 308. Does the 150 work better with the 175 class of bullets?
 
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#1,254
Rob01 said:
A friend who uses his in Tac so a 3000fps max uses N135 and another guy I know uses N140 so those might be a better place to get more velocity. I was hoping N150 so I could cross use with the .308 easier.
Click to expand...

Man, I've got a bunch of N135 too for general heavier .233 and Grendel loads. I might have to give this a shot soon.

Like you, I found that N150 works with a lot of stuff. I've got excellent loads for the 6.5x47, 6GT, and (maybe) now .223. I'll have to monkey around with it in .308 too just for grins.
 
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#1,255
XP1K said:
I'm interested in a VV powder that would do well in 223 and 308 also. I see a lot of people sub N140 for varget, which works well in both of them, but there are quite a few that use N150 in 308. Does the 150 work better with the 175 class of bullets?
Click to expand...

Not sure honestly but it looks like it would do well from their data. I have some N140 so may try it in the .308 and see what it will do first.
 
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#1,259
WeR0206 said:
Id be curious if N140 could push a heavier 308 say a 185 or something along those lines. If I could cross use my N140 with 77gr and 185gr bergers that would be amazing.
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That's what I'm looking for. Something that will crossover with the 77's in 223 and the 169 to 178 in a 20" 308. I'm using varget now but VV is cheaper.
 
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#1,261
I just read a post in the .308 thread where the guy had great luck with N150. I know this is the .223 thread, but there have been some ponderings about the crossover ability with this powder.
 
#1,262
My brother and I decided to order some N540 last night. We decided to go that route instead of the N150. I didn't look at the data but he said the 150 didn't look favorable in the 223 until you got over an 80gr bullet. The N540 was about 150fps faster than the N140 from what he told me. He'll cover the 223 with 77's out of a 16" tikka t3x. Right now he's knocking on 2600 with varget and a 77 tmk.

I'll shoot the 308 out of my custom 700 with a 20" 1:9 lilja. I'll have to see what I've got left in the 175/178gr bullets. I may be down to 168's. I know I've got smk's and Amax, maybe some eld-m's. Been burning up all the loose ends lately. I think I'm going to settle on the 169 smk for 308 and the 77 smk and the tmk when I can get them in the 223.
 
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#1,263
Rob01 said:
You can with a different powder but interested in the N150 also as they are priced right now. With XBR or Varget I get close to 3000fps with 75 ELDs in my 27” .223 Wylde. If I could get some VV that can do it I would be happy.
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75 elds going near 3000 fps own everything inside 800y and can shoot much farther but impact becomes an issue unless using flashers or a good spotter.
I was doing 24.5 gr of XBR, loaded long in a much longer throat than wylde. Winchester brass gave up after a few firings though. If I were to use that combo again I would drop the charge .2gr or so.
 
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#1,264
jLorenzo said:
75 elds going near 3000 fps own everything inside 800y and can shoot much farther but impact becomes an issue unless using flashers or a good spotter.
I was doing 24.5 gr of XBR, loaded long in a much longer throat than wylde. Winchester brass gave up after a few firings though. If I were to use that combo again I would drop the charge .2gr or so.
Click to expand...

Yup I have shot them out to 1150 at a match and they are hard to hear at those distances.
 
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#1,265
75gr ELD-M/ N150. Load specs are above in this page a couple times.

Shot a 10 shot group (pink dot) just now in pretty crappy conditions (39*, W 13MPH according to the Weather Channel). The green dot was an old 69gr SMK / Reloader 15 load test...I just re-used an old target. Please ignore.

Chronograph read 2,801 / 30 ES / 11 SD. I didn't have the ammo out in the cold for too long (20 mins?), so at least it is initially looking like N150 is a tad temp sensitive as it lost 17 FPS from when the ammo was sitting out in ~62 degree weather. I'll need to control and measure this better. Prior to shooting, it sat in a house with the thermostat set at 68 degrees.

I did pull one shot...but looking at the target now (blown up), it looks like I put another shot in there too??...so I'm sticking with that .604 group, and not leaning on an excuse.

*** I'm out of 75gr ELD-Ms at the moment, but will resume this testing when it warms up. I'm curious to see if 1) velocity increases when I store and shoot the ammo at 80 degrees F, and 2) If accuracy tightens up a bit when the load is a tad warmer.

20250212_144310.jpg
 
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#1,266
diggler1833 said:
75gr ELD-M/ N150. Load specs are above in this page a couple times.

Shot a 10 shot group (pink dot) just now in pretty crappy conditions (39*, W 13MPH according to the Weather Channel). The green dot was an old 69gr SMK / Reloader 15 load test...I just re-used an old target. Please ignore.

Chronograph read 2,801 / 30 ES / 11 SD. I didn't have the ammo out in the cold for too long (20 mins?), so at least it is initially looking like N150 is a tad temp sensitive as it lost 17 FPS from when the ammo was sitting out in ~62 degree weather. I'll need to control and measure this better. Prior to shooting, it sat in a house with the thermostat set at 68 degrees.

I did pull one shot...but looking at the target now (blown up), it looks like I put another shot in there too??...so I'm sticking with that .604 group, and not leaning on an excuse.

*** I'm out of 75gr ELD-Ms at the moment, but will resume this testing when it warms up. I'm curious to see if 1) velocity increases when I store and shoot the ammo at 80 degrees F, and 2) If accuracy tightens up a bit when the load is a tad warmer.

View attachment 8615782
Click to expand...
How long is your barrell?
 
#1,268
**edit this is a gas gun**

Hopefully some one can correct me or show my where I am missing something.

I am wanting get a 20in barrel with a Wylde chamber. And be able to shoot to the maximum of my range, 820 yards, with “decent” repeatability. *I understand the 6 arc would be better suited for this.*

I’m at about 800ft above sea level for reference.

The load data I am seeing leads me to believe this is possible, some show 70gr some show 77gr. But the overall theme I see is, you can get them moving fast enough to make it happen.

But I don’t hear many people talking about it either.

I feel like if I can get a 75gr BTHP moving at about 2850 then I should be good. And the seems obtainable based upon what I am seeing in the attached load data.

I do like my face, so I’d prefer to keep it intact.

Thanks.
 

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#1,269
BradleyH said:
**edit this is a gas gun**

Hopefully some one can correct me or show my where I am missing something.

I am wanting get a 20in barrel with a Wylde chamber. And be able to shoot to the maximum of my range, 820 yards, with “decent” repeatability. *I understand the 6 arc would be better suited for this.*

I’m at about 800ft above sea level for reference.

The load data I am seeing leads me to believe this is possible, some show 70gr some show 77gr. But the overall theme I see is, you can get them moving fast enough to make it happen.

But I don’t hear many people talking about it either.

I feel like if I can get a 75gr BTHP moving at about 2850 then I should be good. And the seems obtainable based upon what I am seeing in the attached load data.

I do like my face, so I’d prefer to keep it intact.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
What specific barrel brands are you looking at? Id imagine you’re looking at Proof, White Oak, etc. stainless barrels? For chrome lined chrome moly barrels Criterion core is a solid option.

It’s definitely doable but good luck spotting your impacts/misses at that range with a .224 bullet if you dont have a spotter. The repeatability will be largely dependent on the quality of the handloads, quality of the barrel you choose, whether or not you purchased a quality bolt headspaced to the barrel, and the overall build quality of your gun (factory build, built by you from scratch with all proper torque values, etc.).

For bullets id look at the 73gr ELD-M due to its better BC compared to 75 BTHP plus it fits in AR mags (it has one of the best BC’s while still being able to fit in AR mags). There’s also the Berger and Sierra 77gr OTM which are both fantastic for long range shooting but their BC is slightly worse than the 73 ELD-M.

To give you some idea of recommended bullets and powders for 223 long distance shooting (note the COAL listed for some of these bullets, i.e. the 75 ELD-M are only for single feeding/bolt guns bc they’re too long for gas gun mag length) from the Lyman long range precision rifle reloading handbook:

IMG_2875.jpeg
IMG_2876.jpeg
IMG_2877.jpeg
 
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#1,270
WeR0206 said:
What specific barrel brands are you looking at? Id imagine you’re looking at Proof, White Oak, etc. stainless barrels? For chrome lined chrome moly barrels Criterion core is a solid option.

It’s definitely doable but good luck spotting your impacts/misses at that range with a .224 bullet if you dont have a spotter. The repeatability will be largely dependent on the quality of the handloads, quality of the barrel you choose, whether or not you purchased a quality bolt headspaced to the barrel, and the overall build quality of your gun (factory build, built by you from scratch with all proper torque values, etc.).

For bullets id look at the 73gr ELD-M due to its better BC compared to 75 BTHP plus it fits in AR mags (it has one of the best BC’s while still being able to fit in AR mags). There’s also the Berger and Sierra 77gr OTM which are both fantastic for long range shooting but their BC is slightly worse than the 73 ELD-M.

To give you some idea of recommended bullets and powders for 223 long distance shooting (note the COAL listed for some of these bullets, i.e. the 75 ELD-M are only for single feeding/bolt guns bc they’re too long for gas gun mag length) from the Lyman long range precision rifle
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Looking at a craddock with a rock creek blank. With them providing the bolt. Figured it was the best starting point!

I could put it In an aero enhanced upper or a VLTOR. I’m undecided at this point.

73 ELD-M looks promising. And I’m surprised Varget does as well as it shows in that handbook.

But definitely worth a look
 
#1,271
BradleyH said:
Thanks!

Looking at a craddock with a rock creek blank. With them providing the bolt. Figured it was the best starting point!

I could put it In an aero enhanced upper or a VLTOR. I’m undecided at this point.

73 ELD-M looks promising. And I’m surprised Varget does as well as it shows in that handbook.

But definitely worth a look
Click to expand...
You’re welcome. Nice, the craddock/rock creek should get the job done nicely especially with a headspaced bolt.

Another upper to consider would be a stripped blem BCM (its a nice tight thermofit with the barrel), pretty good deal for around $80

Here’s a list of solid options I consider for precision ar15 builds:
 
#1,272
WeR0206 said:
You’re welcome. Nice, the craddock/rock creek should get the job done nicely especially with a headspaced bolt.

Another upper to consider would be a stripped blem BCM (its a nice tight thermofit with the barrel), pretty good deal for around $80

Here’s a list of solid options I consider for precision ar15 builds:
Click to expand...
I’ll check those out, thanks for the detail and links!

I’ll see what I can find as far as data goes.

I assume I can use 5.56 load data if it is once fired brass from my chamber?

I have some loaded Bergers, in 223 Lapua brass, as long as the primers don’t pierce. I’ve read on here one lot was pretty hot and gave a guy a lot of trouble
 
#1,273
BradleyH said:
I’ll check those out, thanks for the detail and links!

I’ll see what I can find as far as data goes.

I assume I can use 5.56 load data if it is once fired brass from my chamber?

I have some loaded Bergers, in 223 Lapua brass, as long as the primers don’t pierce. I’ve read on here one lot was pretty hot and gave a guy a lot of trouble
Click to expand...
I remember reading something similar about loaded bergers so def be careful with them.

You can confirm with craddock re: whether or not your chamber will handle 5.56 pressures but 223 wylde should be able to handle it. If you dont have some already Id def get some go headspace gauges for 223 (1.4636”) and 5.56 (1.4646”) to verify exactly how much headspace your chamber actually has regardless of how its marked on the outside or what Craddock says.

For example does it close on 223 go? Does it close on 5.56 go? If it feels like it can barely close on the 223 go gauge you may have a slightly tight 223 wylde chamber and Id be careful of loading 5.56 pressures. As always start low and work your way up. A wylde chamber should close on 1.4636 but not on 1.4646 (its supposed to have headspace in between 223 and 5.56 but I dont know the exact spec off hand). You can keep adding pieces of scotch tape to the 223 go gauge until it stops closing and use that as an estimate. Each layer of tape is a little over .002” thick.

Note the load data in the pics I provided is based on 223 pressures not 5.56 so you could use them as starting points and go up from there.
 
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