.223 - 5.56

[MarshallDodge]

Looking at your groups, the dies you are using are not holding you back. If you were seeing the occasional flyer, I would adjust neck tension, but make sure it is the ammo and not the gun, shooter, or wind.

Wind can be a factor at any distance, but even more so when you go past 100 yards. Learning to read wind can really help you.

I do not crimp bolt gun ammo.

 

[dcmdon]

That's what I was thinking. I'm a mediocre shot when shooting from the type of positions used in PRS. I think this quick and dirty session shows that under most circumstances this gun/ammo combination is going to be more accurate than I am.

I'm looking forward to bumping up the powder and setting COAL correctly and seeing what it will do.

I live in MA and the longest I can shoot is 300 yards. Over Columbus Day weekend I'll be up at my place in NH where I have 35 acres and can shoot 800 yards. I'm hoping to have a semi-final load made and entered into my Kestrel.

 

[Snuby642]

I'll gather up some same year Lake City brass, size it, trim it, uniform the flash hole and measure each charge for next week and see how it goes.

In the past I've spun down the expander ball by a couple of thousandths to provide for more neck tension (that is how my Dillon sizing die is set up).

Your Dillon will hold 0.1g well and I only get a + 0.1g load on the first pull of the day. So if whatever your measuring with is ×/- 0.1g check your dillon and just run it.

I also polish my expander ball to - 0.004 thousands .

But then everything goes through a -0.002 mandrel .

Exact ammount of nt is consistancy and the mandrell does that best.

 

[oldrifleman]

First off, no problem, we are all learning, especially me. Le Wilson, whidden, SAC are the A class died that I know of ( I am sure there are others).

 

[dcmdon]

Your Dillon will hold 0.1g well and I only get a + 0.1g load on the first pull of the day. So if whatever your measuring with is ×/- 0.1g check your dillon and just run it.

I also polish my expander ball to - 0.004 thousands .

But then everything goes through a -0.002 mandrel .

Exact ammount of nt is consistancy and the mandrell does that best.

I've just started researching precision sizing dies.

I noticed that all of them allow you to swap out different sized bushings.

I have been reading this evening and now know that I need to figure how mandrels and bushings interact and how to figure sizes of each. In short, I now know what I DON'T know. Which is a good first step. Ha.

I've always just used the expander ball to set neck tension. It got me to a 3 fps SD with my .308 loads. But apparently there is a better way. Like I said, I'm not even at the point where I'm sorting brass for head stamp yet with my .223 loads so I think I'm just going to run the standard Dillon FL resizing die with an undersized expander ball for the time being.

Thank you all again for all this knowledge.

 

[dcmdon]

I also polish my expander ball to - 0.004 thousands .

But then everything goes through a -0.002 mandrel .

Exact ammount of nt is consistancy and the mandrell does that best.

So you use the ball to expand the case mouth a bit.

Then do the final expansion to size with the mandrel.

No bushings involved? I like the idea of basing the sizing on the ID of the case mouth, not the OD. So this makes sense to me.

 

[Mauser48]

I use a redding type s set. If I had to do it again I'd consider a wilson bushing die and a forster micrometer seater. I use a bushing to size about .002 under desired neck tension then use a .222 mandrel. I'd also recommend starline brass.

 

[Snuby642]

That's the beauty of the sizing button mod and a mandrell.

No bushings to change or measurements to take, no worries about changing or mixing brass.

As long as you have a no turn chamber all you need to adjust is powder and seating depth.

All my ammo gets a small crimp aproxamatly 1/8 turn from just touching. It's all semiautomatic 223 fodder.

 

[Mauser48]

I will say even if you decide you don't want to mandrel every time it's a great tool to have for new brass which is often dented and undersized or if you drop a piece of brass at some point in the loading process and don't want to run it through the full length die again.

 

[Cr1775]

Does anyone have recommendations for match dies?

I've used both Redding and Hornady micrometer seating dies and don't really have an opinion on them.

By the way. I'm not crimping. Just using neck tension.

In the past I've spun down the expander ball by a couple of thousandths to provide for more neck tension (that is how my Dillon sizing die is set up).

Is this a good thing to continue, or should I crimp? Ammo will be used in a bolt gun only.

??? If you spun? Down the expander ball you decreased your neck tension. As for seating bullets you might want to try a Wilson seating die with an arbor press for better results. Anyway have fun!

 

[Cr1775]

As far as crimping bullets i have never seen an improvement in rifle groups. Only time i crimp is when loading for pistol. But go ahead see what you see. That goes for loading semi auto rifles never seen an improvement.

 

[wind gypsy]

Thank you.

I was given 800 of these bullets by someone who bought them to use in his AR and then found that they didn't really like to be loaded to AR magazine length.

Based on today's results, I'm going to make some common sense changes to try to wring out some more accuracy. Obviously, this was a starting powder charge. Today's rounds
1. Were too short.
2. Were mixed brass
3. Were loaded on a Dillon 550 using the Dillon powder drop
4) Were loaded with Dillon dies

I'll gather up some same year Lake City brass, size it, trim it, uniform the flash hole and measure each charge for next week and see how it goes.

Ain’t nothin wrong with jumping em 62 thou. I usually start around 50 thou and if it shoots good I don’t bother trying anything else sometimes.

 

[dcmdon]

??? If you spun? Down the expander ball you decreased your neck tension. As for seating bullets you might want to try a Wilson seating die with an arbor press for better results. Anyway have fun!

Spinning down the expander ball decreases its diameter. So it expands the case mouth less. Which results in a smaller diameter case mouth, which means more neck tension when you stuff similarly sized bullets into it.

 

[Cr1775]

Spinning down the expander ball decreases its diameter. So it expands the case mouth less. Which results in a smaller diameter case mouth, which means more neck tension when you stuff similarly sized bullets into

Still trying to figure out how to spin them down evenly. Guess i don't have a big enough shop for that . Much easier to call Forster and order the size i want.

 

[wind gypsy]

In regards to all this bushing and expander talk - I played the bushing and mandrel game for a bit and the last handful of cartridges I've
moved to just getting forster FL sizing dies honed to not overwork the necks and use the expander balls. Maybe benchrest guys can tell the difference but I cant and it's one less pass through a single stage press this way and dies are economical. Less of a deal if each is a stage on a progressive press but i'm not wasting time on it with a single stage.

Still trying to figure out how to spin them down evenly. Guess i don't have a big enough shop for that . Much easier to call Forster and order the size i want.

Does forster still do that?

 

[Cr1775]

In regards to all this bushing and expander talk - I played the bushing and mandrel game for a bit and the last handful of cartridges I've
moved to just getting forster FL sizing dies honed to not overwork the necks and use the expander balls. Maybe benchrest guys can tell the difference but I cant and it's one less pass through a single stage press this way and dies are economical. Less of a deal if each is a stage on a progressive press but i'm not wasting time on it with a single stage.

Does forster still do that?

They did for me 2 years ago. My cast 308 bullets are sized .310, i needed a ball that was .308.
Forster always been good to me.

 

[dcmdon]

Still trying to figure out how to spin them down evenly. Guess i don't have a big enough shop for that . Much easier to call Forster and order the size i want.

Let me know if this is a bad way to do it.

But I just measured the expander ball, chucked it in a drill press an used some crocus cloth to take .002 off of it, then finished it with some finer wet sand paper.

 

[Snuby642]

^^^^^^^^ That's the way I do all mine.

Put the stem in a drill and polish away a couple thousands.

-4 thou on the expander works the brass less at a time and the -2 mandrell die setup reduced fliers and shrank groups.

Now when I change powder by 0.1g I can see the difference on paper.

Not really a bench rest shooter but load development is done on a bench with sand bags. Cuts down on variables.

 

[dcmdon]

^^^^^^^^ That's the way I do all mine.

Put the stem in a drill and polish away a couple thousands.

-4 thou on the expander works the brass less at a time and the -2 mandrell die setup reduced fliers and shrank groups.

Now when I change powder by 0.1g I can see the difference on paper.

Not really a bench rest shooter but load development is done on a bench with sand bags. Cuts down on variables.

So you don't use bushings? Just size it down with the die. Expand it a bit with the ball and then expand it to final size with a mandrel?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Snuby642]

Yes that's exactly what I do.
I hate fooling with bushings.

Edit: All the slop between brass goes to the outside.

 

[dcmdon]

Thank you.