Think I’m gonna sponsor a Team

#101
I think this could be very interesting to see how it plays out. I have been playing the game for a few years, due to work and family priorities only get to attend a few regional matches a year. Planning on shooting my first pro match at Clinton House in the spring.

I would like to see more of an emphasis being placed on the type of person and competitor/sportsman being sponsored. The mid pack guys that are in it for the long haul, invite there buddies to a local NRL22 or outlaw match, loan out rifles and try to share their love of all things precision rifle are what feeds the growth of this sport. They are the ones that need support and mentorship.

I’ve had the good fortune of meeting and training some with one of the top PRS competitors over the last few years and I can tell you, there is a reason why those top 20 guys keep being the top 20 guys. They train A LOT! They shoot almost daily and usually dry fire for hours upon hours to climb the ladder. Many of them have left their jobs/careers and started working in the industry to support the schedule and lifestyle of being at the top of the sport.

I feel like there are so many matches these days and the barrier to being competitive is getting bigger and bigger. Starting to see match attendance fall off a bit. I’m afraid we are getting to the point of the top 10% being that group that’s always going to be at the top. The middle 70% being a revolving door that turns over ever 2-5 years and the bottom 20% try it out and never come back because they are overwhelmed and feel unwelcome.

Just some thoughts, but I think we need to feed that middle class much more then the top tier if we want the sport to continue to grow. At that point all they really need is barrels and reloading components, anyway.

Thanks for being willing to jump in. I have to admit, I didn’t see this one coming! 🤣
 
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#102
Lowlight said:
I had a conversation with a potential sponsor and they asked me some very pointed questions about the workings of this support.

I am not in a hurry to just sign people up, I want to work on best practices and then at SHOT look at what manufacturer support we can get.

There has to be two sides to the street, in short more than a picture of you with a box you took off the prize table. East stuff can be very meaningful.

But also I want the support to follow a best practice model. I think creating a pipeline for "Competitors" to follow a path, and work towards a goal using a best practice approach will help set a standard that I feel is currently missing.

So I am formulating a plan, a process, and a set of goals.

I am interested in what you feel is a best practice you would like to see or a model you think works ?
Click to expand...
I don’t think it’s too much to ask a sponsored competitor to do some basic product highlights/reviews. Product placements. Etc.

The average person has an iPhone. And it wouldn’t take much to have a professional video created as well.
 
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#104
stanley_white said:
Beyond matches, it would be cool if you had each participant shoot a diagnostic course of fire at the beginning and end of the season to see how far they have come.

It would be even cooler if the diagnostic course of fire was posted here.

-Stan
Click to expand...
Just received the Shooters Global Timer 2 & Pulse, combined with their app it makes what your asking for possible and quantifiable.
I think this will be a great set of tools.
He shows how this works starting about 18 min. mark.
 
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#108
As a first year shooter based out of Clinton House I have been trying to find someone to help sponsor newbies. There is a tremendous amount of money just to get started, then you have so much to learn in a short time and then there are the on going cost of ammo, training and match fees. It can be a lot. I wonder how many people out there have a love of the shooting sports and don’t do it bc of the sheer cost. Having access to quality training and mentorship is huge in a newbies growth and confidence in the sport. If this is something that sparks your interest, reach out to me.
 
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#109
Sponsor a Vet Team at our Vet Benefit Match end of May 2025. South Eastern Wyoming

$ 9,999 3k. 2k

FIRST SECOND THIRD PLACE PRIZE MONEY. KILLER PRIZE TABLE FOR FIELD AS WELL

Great terrain, mix of all series style disciplines, anyones match, super fun more than anything

More details coming out in a matter of hours for rules and match flow. 2 day event

DM for questions
 

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#110
GrassyKnollEnterprises said:
Sponsor a Vet Team at our Vet Benefit Match end of May 2025. South Eastern Wyoming

$ 9,999 3k. 2k

FIRST SECOND THIRD PLACE PRIZE MONEY. KILLER PRIZE TABLE FOR FIELD AS WELL

Great terrain, mix of all series style disciplines, anyones match, super fun more than anything

More details coming out in a matter of hours for rules and match flow. 2 day event

DM for questions
Click to expand...
Looking like I’m going to attend. Am a vet and sponsored or not, this sounds like a kickass match I’m just happy to go to.
 
#111
TNSleeper99 said:
I’m afraid we are getting to the point of the top 10% being that group that’s always going to be at the top. The middle 70% being a revolving door that turns over ever 2-5 years and the bottom 20% try it out and never come back because they are overwhelmed and feel unwelcome.
Click to expand...
The hobby isn't "getting" to that point, its been there for quite some time...
 
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#113
mkollman74 said:
The hobby isn't "getting" to that point, its been there for quite some time...
Click to expand...
That’s the thing. I as a newbie see that happening over and over. I have nearly $9,000-$10,000 in rifle and equipment right now and I am spending around $1,000 each month to train with ammo, shoot one single competition and pay for that travel. I am having a great time and enjoy the camaraderie, but that’s a lot of coin to drop to shoot steel at range with friends.
 
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#115
PRS-JohnB said:
That’s the thing. I as a newbie see that happening over and over. I have nearly $9,000-$10,000 in rifle and equipment right now and I am spending around $1,000 each month to train with ammo, shoot one single competition and pay for that travel. I am having a great time and enjoy the camaraderie, but that’s a lot of coin to drop to shoot steel at range with friends.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there’s no way around it (other than getting a sugar mama, I suppose) and based on the last 5 years or so it is likely to become increasingly more expensive. Component and ammo prices alone have more than doubled in the last 5 years, and I know more than a few dudes who have either switched to rimfire or quit PRS altogether because of the increase in cost.

It is an expensive hobby (but still not as much as some others - try racing sports cars!). And you’d probably be surprised how much many “pro” shooters with sponsorships are still spending on shooting.

TBH, these days if a buddy is interested in getting into PRS I try to explain the expense of it to him before he ends up with $10k+ in gear and then realizes he can’t actually afford to either practice regularly or shoot more than a handful of matches a year. Better to go in with eyes open, because he’ll usually make better decisions and have less heartburn about the expense if he understands everything in advance.
 
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#117
Lowlight said:
I think there are ways around it, the money we are spending, we see a path to save a few bucks ($3k vs $8k )

But once I get home this week, I’m gonna start the process to sign up the team I was just traveling and distracted
Click to expand...

This would be a truly an amazing opportunity for who ever is lucky enough to get a "ticket".

Its an expensive hobby anyway you slice it, but the money I've spent on training with Brian Whalen has trumped any amount I would have put in on ammo/gear. Shoot, as a Denver area local and very mid pack shooter, I'd be stoked just for the occasional Fort Morgan range day.
 
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#118
Just some random thoughts Lowlight, as I’m one of those classic “overthinkers” :
Everyone these days has a blessed cellphone with camera capable of recording video, and 90sec clips are small enough to send/post on social media.
Taking a cue from NRL (at least for the virtual folks), develop a few stages with common props, hell, have ‘em shoot paper plates, something else that’s easily accessible AND a paper target doesn’t lie.
Shooter turns in (posts) their video and pic of their target(s), you critique and give direction based on what you see.
Awesome idea (virtual coaching), and will show you real fast who is teachable. A series of stages that continue to challenge with different stages/prop heights to teach the most effective and efficient manners of position building to improve results on target.
I’m following this with much interest 👍
 
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#119
well here is my story and personal opinion of how it worked out.

I met a guy at church, I had no idea he shot. Myself at that time was just plinking. I was a GC and he needed a room addition. I built his room addition and in the course found out he shot. We talked about it but he never let on his ability. Came to the end of the project, he paid me and GAVE me his old IPSC 1911 build gun with the offer of teaching me to shoot IPSC. I came to learn he was in the top ten shooters in the country.
We started shooting together, practicing and learning the fundamentals of the sport. I obtained sponsorship from another well off client who enjoyed shooting. We proceeded to travel and shoot together and I learned everything I needed without having to try out all the new gadgets and widgets. I became very good very quickly which would not of happened otherwise.

The most important thing I learned was you have to put in the time, the widgets and gadgets do not make you better. I remember many times where we would be somewhere and someone would be saying their gun needed upgraded, it didnt shoot right. The trigger was bad, dot needed upgraded.................
He would then offer to help evaluate the gun to help them out. I remember him using someone else's gun to shoot a stage, win the stage and give it back and say nothing wrong with the gun. He would also spend time to show/teach them what to do to get better.

What you are wanting to do will help a lot of people have fun, save money and see results so they keep shooting. The unfortunate thing is it is an expensive hobby that takes a lot of time, two things people do not have a lot of these days.

And as stated above the human element of people not accepting newcomers and belittleing of equipment does not help.
I see the same thing in drag racing, racers complain there is not a lot of new blood then when some shows up they make fun of their 13 second car instead of welcoming them and showing them how to go faster.
 
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#121
ironpony52 said:
well here is my story and personal opinion of how it worked out.

I met a guy at church, I had no idea he shot. Myself at that time was just plinking. I was a GC and he needed a room addition. I built his room addition and in the course found out he shot. We talked about it but he never let on his ability. Came to the end of the project, he paid me and GAVE me his old IPSC 1911 build gun with the offer of teaching me to shoot IPSC. I came to learn he was in the top ten shooters in the country.
We started shooting together, practicing and learning the fundamentals of the sport. I obtained sponsorship from another well off client who enjoyed shooting. We proceeded to travel and shoot together and I learned everything I needed without having to try out all the new gadgets and widgets. I became very good very quickly which would not of happened otherwise.

The most important thing I learned was you have to put in the time, the widgets and gadgets do not make you better. I remember many times where we would be somewhere and someone would be saying their gun needed upgraded, it didnt shoot right. The trigger was bad, dot needed upgraded.................
He would then offer to help evaluate the gun to help them out. I remember him using someone else's gun to shoot a stage, win the stage and give it back and say nothing wrong with the gun. He would also spend time to show/teach them what to do to get better.

What you are wanting to do will help a lot of people have fun, save money and see results so they keep shooting. The unfortunate thing is it is an expensive hobby that takes a lot of time, two things people do not have a lot of these days.

And as stated above the human element of people not accepting newcomers and belittleing of equipment does not help.
I see the same thing in drag racing, racers complain there is not a lot of new blood then when some shows up they make fun of their 13 second car instead of welcoming them and showing them how to go faster.
Click to expand...
I have to say that everyone has been extremely nice and welcoming to me being the new guy. Even when I said I didn’t have a rifle worth shooting, they said just being anything you have and shoot it. I went on a warmup day and several let me shoot their rifles. Wow what a difference a nice rifle makes. Now that I have most of what I need, ammo and training are my biggest things. The cost of ammo wont ever go away. I hope to learn to reload sometime soon, but that is just more equipment, more time and more training. So I am focusing on training for shooting before going down that rabbit hole.
 
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#122
PRS-JohnB said:
That’s the thing. I as a newbie see that happening over and over. I have nearly $9,000-$10,000 in rifle and equipment right now and I am spending around $1,000 each month to train with ammo, shoot one single competition and pay for that travel. I am having a great time and enjoy the camaraderie, but that’s a lot of coin to drop to shoot steel at range with friends.
Click to expand...
You bet its a lot of coin... IF you can responsibly afford to do so, and enjoy it, then good on ya. Life is short. By that same token (life is short) if you have a family, there is a great demand placed on your time if you want to be competitive. Time that you can never get back.
 
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#123
mkollman74 said:
You bet its a lot of coin... IF you can responsibly afford to do so, and enjoy it, the good on ya. Life is short. By that same token (life is short) if you have a family there is a great demand placed on your time if you want to be competitive. Time that you can never get back.
Click to expand...

Amen, brother. I have nothing but respect for the friends I have who choose to put their family first.

Whether that's taking a break from comps altogether, or just accepting that the few matches they shoot will be for fun because spending time and money on the family is more important that grinding out another practice session at the range. It's heartwarming to see dudes you care about making those choices.
 
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#124
PRS-JohnB said:
I have to say that everyone has been extremely nice and welcoming to me being the new guy. Even when I said I didn’t have a rifle worth shooting, they said just being anything you have and shoot it. I went on a warmup day and several let me shoot their rifles. Wow what a difference a nice rifle makes. Now that I have most of what I need, ammo and training are my biggest things. The cost of ammo wont ever go away. I hope to learn to reload sometime soon, but that is just more equipment, more time and more training. So I am focusing on training for shooting before going down that rabbit hole.
Click to expand...
With regard to reloading, if possible, find someone who is willing to let you load on their equipment to start with and teach you. Learning from a good mentor will save you time and money. If you start with the basics you can recover the cost of reloading equipment quickly. A Chargemaster and a Lee 4 hole turrret press can take someone a long way.
 
#125
You don’t have to spend or put in anymore to money or time than you want to. There is no need to spend $10K on gear or spend $1000 a month to practice. There are ways around both especially now with good rifles and scopes costing less than in the past. Also dry fire practice costs nothing but can get you learning how to move into and out of positions and get stable as well as learn time management both of which are very important things in matches.

Also time and commitments are a large part. Been shooting the sport for 22 years now and in the 2000s I was out there a lot flying around the country shooting matches and placing very well. Then around 2012 after about 10 years of doing it I slowed down and shot some 3 gun and mixed it up for a while but still shot my comp rifles and still hit a few matches a year but nothing like earlier. Then I retired and moved in 2017 and that’s when I started shooting .22 matches also. So I still shoot centerfire and now since 2017 rimfire matches but travel was mostly east coast area and that is what I do now. I do what I can and that is all anyone should do.
 
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#126
Rob01 said:
You don’t have to spend or put in anymore to money or time than you want to. There is no need to spend $10K on gear or spend $1000 a month to practice. There are ways around both especially now with good rifles and scopes costing less than in the past. Also dry fire practice costs nothing but can get you learning how to move into and out of positions and get stable as well as learn time management both of which are very important things in matches.

Also time and commitments are a large part. Been shooting the sport for 22 years now and in the 2000s I was out there a lot flying around the country shooting matches and placing very well. Then around 2012 after about 10 years of doing it I slowed down and shot some 3 gun and mixed it up for a while but still shot my comp rifles and still hit a few matches a year but nothing like earlier. Then I retired and moved in 2017 and that’s when I started shooting .22 matches also. So I still shoot centerfire and now since 2017 rimfire matches but travel was mostly east coast area and that is what I do now. I do what I can and that is all anyone should do.
Click to expand...
I think this is an important takeaway for shooters to have. There are plenty of challenges that are placed on the shooter BY the shooter - not the organizations.

It’s our personal choice to spend on higher dollar rifles and gear. There are divisions that can be shot competitively for less money. There are rimfire events that are less money. You can choose not to travel beyond your personal budget.

At the end of the day … there are a lot of ways to shoot and have fun playing the game without blowing your budget.
 
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#127
Rob01 said:
You don’t have to spend or put in anymore to money or time than you want to. There is no need to spend $10K on gear or spend $1000 a month to practice. There are ways around both especially now with good rifles and scopes costing less than in the past. Also dry fire practice costs nothing but can get you learning how to move into and out of positions and get stable as well as learn time management both of which are very important things in matches.

Also time and commitments are a large part. Been shooting the sport for 22 years now and in the 2000s I was out there a lot flying around the country shooting matches and placing very well. Then around 2012 after about 10 years of doing it I slowed down and shot some 3 gun and mixed it up for a while but still shot my comp rifles and still hit a few matches a year but nothing like earlier. Then I retired and moved in 2017 and that’s when I started shooting .22 matches also. So I still shoot centerfire and now since 2017 rimfire matches but travel was mostly east coast area and that is what I do now. I do what I can and that is all anyone should do.
Click to expand...
What he said. ^^^

When I shot handgun silhouette, I shot three times a week. 20 rounds per session. No more than one hour each sesssion including setting up targets and taking them down. Point was trigger control. In PRS You can practice trigger control, a couple times a week with live rounds with a .22.

Everything else can be done, dry fire at home. Not as much fun but priorities weigh over fun. Though I always taught on the principal “if you are not having fun, you are not learning.” (Just rote memorizing). However, even rote physical practice, if done enough becomes a habit.

Despite what many feel, a standard RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor can easily meet the standards of PRS. (Under 1 MOA) An Athlon or if one feels rich, a Leupold MK4, a Harris bipod, scope rings and a couple bags. And you’re ready to shoot. Can one win with it? It would be fun for a quality competitor to try. A custom shop model is competitive but what about the good old standard, buck and a half model. Win, I don’t know, competitively, it’s the man not the gun.
 
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#128
yes, some of my purchases have been higher than they had. But here is what i have
Solus Action: $650
Proof Barrel: $780
Aero 17in Chassis: $700
Weights: $350
Scope: Used Tangent $3200
MPA Base: $250
Bags, tripod, binos, etc: $2,000
Training Sessions: $250x3=750
Total: $8700.00

Monthly:
Match Fee: $100 (one a month)
Ammo for Match: $325
Travel Exp: $200 (on the low side if there is no hotel)
Training Ammo: $225 (1 box a week)
Total: $850.00

You can see that yes, I could potentially save a few bucks on the scope, but I did go the cheap route with the rifle itself. I could have easily spent another $2,000 on an impact action, MDT chassis and CRB barrel. We all know you can't show up with a hunting rifle and shoot a match when you are shooting 10 rounds in 90 seconds. At least without destroying the rifle in a short period of time. You can see that if you train with someone higher up the chain for around $250/mth, that you can quickly get to $1,000/month

I really enjoy all this and hope to stick with it. At some point my proficiency will allow me not to train as much and maybe save some money. But it is without doubt an expensive sport.
 
#129
PRS-JohnB said:
yes, some of my purchases have been higher than they had. But here is what i have
Solus Action: $650
Proof Barrel: $780
Aero 17in Chassis: $700
Weights: $350
Scope: Used Tangent $3200
MPA Base: $250
Bags, tripod, binos, etc: $2,000
Training Sessions: $250x3=750
Total: $8700.00

Monthly:
Match Fee: $100 (one a month)
Ammo for Match: $325
Travel Exp: $200 (on the low side if there is no hotel)
Training Ammo: $225 (1 box a week)
Total: $850.00

You can see that yes, I could potentially save a few bucks on the scope, but I did go the cheap route with the rifle itself. I could have easily spent another $2,000 on an impact action, MDT chassis and CRB barrel. We all know you can't show up with a hunting rifle and shoot a match when you are shooting 10 rounds in 90 seconds. At least without destroying the rifle in a short period of time. You can see that if you train with someone higher up the chain for around $250/mth, that you can quickly get to $1,000/month

I really enjoy all this and hope to stick with it. At some point my proficiency will allow me not to train as much and maybe save some money. But it is without doubt an expensive sport.
Click to expand...

You are spending $325 for a single match ammo? What are you shooting?

$200 to travel? Does you car get 1mpg? lol even driving a few hours it might be a tank of gas so $50.

And you could have saved a lot off the rifle build but if you choose to take training and spend some of the other money then that’s your choice. There are cheaper ways to get all that done.
 
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#130
Rob01 said:
You are spending $325 for a single match ammo? What are you shooting?

$200 to travel? Does you car get 1mpg? lol even driving a few hours it might be a tank of gas so $50.

And you could have saved a lot off the rifle build but if you choose to take training and spend some of the other money then that’s your choice. There are cheaper ways to get all that done.
Click to expand...
-Ammo is $52/box before tax and I take 120 rounds. That is Copper Creek Ammo. The factory Hornady Match ammo was far from consistent.
Travel: Well prob $100 for my truck b/c most matches are at least 1.5 hours away if not further. Then you have to figure a couple meals.

Not sure where else other than the optic i could have saved on a PRS Rig, but It is what it is. You're getting bogged down in the Minutia of things and missing the point that simply this is an expensive sport and b/c of that, It makes it hard for new guys to come into the sport and to continue in it. I make enough money to do what i did. There are plenty of guys out there that would love the sport and likely be pretty good at it, but simply can't afford it.
 
#131
PRS-JohnB said:
-Ammo is $52/box before tax and I take 120 rounds. That is Copper Creek Ammo. The factory Hornady Match ammo was far from consistent.
Travel: Well prob $100 for my truck b/c most matches are at least 1.5 hours away if not further. Then you have to figure a couple meals.

Not sure where else other than the optic i could have saved on a PRS Rig, but It is what it is. You're getting bogged down in the Minutia of things and missing the point that simply this is an expensive sport and b/c of that, It makes it hard for new guys to come into the sport and to continue in it. I make enough money to do what i did. There are plenty of guys out there that would love the sport and likely be pretty good at it, but simply can't afford it.
Click to expand...

If you got the money to spend $52 a box on ammo then all the power to you. 1.5 hours is not much at all and meals is another optional add in. I eat before I leave and then have some snacks in my pack for the day and then eat when I get home. Just trying to show people it doesn’t cost $200 to go to a 1 day match if you don’t want it to.

And no not getting bogged down in anything as that minutia is where the savings are found. Again I am just trying to show someone else who may be wanting to get into the sport and reading this that it can be done for cheaper and still be a good set up. It’s not a cheap sport but it can also be done for less and still be good.
 
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#132
I don’t mean to be insulting, but I drive to my son’s home (450 miles one way) and then to Altus (45 miles one way), eat my own snacks (lunch served at the match) and eat when we get back to our son’s home. Point, with our GMC half ton, it gets 20mph, and I drive almost a thousand miles, use 50 gallons of gas and still my travel expenses are well below $200.00. (50 gallons of fuel at $2.75 per gallon - $137.50) Add lunch and snacks on the drive to and from Louisiana to Florida and return, $40 for four hamburgers lunches (Brenda and myself) and ten bucks for snacks (Normally carry my own but when I make a restroom stop, feel like I need to purchase something from the store) Still even the cost of snacks from walmart brings it below two hundred.
 
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#134
Gap PPR $3000
Minox / bender et al used $2000
Rings $150
Game changer $100
Bipod $100-300

Go work some overtime or something. Trade your late model car a year later.

Plenty of other sports / hobbys cost a lot more. Fushing horses snowmobiling etc.
 
#135
Howa Barreled Action from Brownells: $409.99

Gunbloke 2lb Trigger Spring for Howa 1500: $15.23

KRG Bravo: $399.99

MDT 20 MOA Scope Base: $69.95

Leupold MK4 6-24x52mm PR2-MIL $1,499

Leupold Mark 4 34mm Super High Scope Rings 59310 $116.99

Harris Bipod $150

Armageddon Gear Game Changer $120

Kestrel 1000: $89.95

4DOF Application: Free

Emory Cloth Bolt Smoothing Home Job: $5

Total before taxes and shipping: $2,876.10

-Stan
 
#136
If I had to, I could shoot a 1 day regional match for $155-$170 depending on drive distance to the range. That is $60 entry fee, $25-40 fuel, and $70 for components (assumes .70 per round for 100 rounds).

Using the components I currently use, the cost is $185-200 (component cost $1.00 per round).

The real cost is $50 more when you factor in barrel wear (I pull at 1500-2000 rounds so 40-50 cents per round fired) and brass wear/loss.

I normally buy breakfast at McDonalds for $6 on the way out and bring a couple beers ($10-12) but those are optional.

There is a certain amount of cost that is inherent to the hobby and cannot be avoided. This recurring cost does drive some out of the activity and stop others from starting.
 
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