Low end Torque Values- Borka vs Wiha

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colt.45

Private
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2020
69
2
Alabama/Wisconsin
#1
I've got to mount some optics, so I'm in the market for an in/lb torque wrench

What I mainly wanna know is the ranges of torque values I'm gonna be dealing with. That will tell me what I need:
-Scope bases/pic rails:
-Scope rings, bottom:
-Scope rings, top:
-Action screws:
-turret screws?
-anything else i'm forgetting?

Is there anything I would need to go lower than 10 in/lb for?
Is there anything I need to go higher than 50 in/lb for?

I've got an AC Delco (automotive brand) digital wrench that has a 3/8 square drive. It goes from 44-400 something in/lb. I use this for muzzle devices, or anything in the 3-30ish FT/LB range.

So I've narrowed my options down to the Borka and Wiha. Both have great reviews. If the Wiha had the same range, I'd have bought it already, as I prefer its design to the Borka.
Both seem reportedly comparable in accuracy.
Both are roughly the same price. ($175 for the Borka, & $150-180 for the Wiha, w/neccesary 1/4" adapter for american bits)

Now, if there are things I'm gonna need to go higher than 50 in/lb for, but they're very unlikely to happen in the field, then the 10-50 sounds fine. If not, the Borka seems like the better option. But, if there's various things beyond 70 in/lb that, are are highly likely to need attention in the field, then the Borka has also lost its appeal. Since I'd have take my larger wrench with me anyways. The main thing I don't like about the Borka is how your grip has to change based on the value you select. If it was a screwdriver style like the Wiha, I'd have already bought it.

My goal is to have something handheld, for my range bag, which is the main issue with my ACDelco. It's rather large and not very useable with one hand if I have to hold the gun. Definitely suited to things clamped in a vise. It's also heavy, and comes in a long bulky box. (I did consider the Fixit sticks, but I've passed on that option due to its design. No need to recommend that one, I'm aware lots of guys use and love them.)
 
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#2
Scope rings run in the 15-20 in/lb range. Scope mounts run in the 40-60 in/lb range. There are probably some outliers on either side of both. I’ve been perfectly satisfied with a Wheeler Fat Wrench. But, I’m an unwashed mongrel that thinks people get a bit too wrapped around the axle regarding scope mounting and exact torque values…
 
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#3
hlee said:
Scope rings run in the 15-20 in/lb range. Scope mounts run in the 40-60 in/lb range. There are probably some outliers on either side of both. I’ve been perfectly satisfied with a Wheeler Fat Wrench. But, I’m an unwashed mongrel that thinks people get a bit too wrapped around the axle regarding scope mounting and exact torque values…
Click to expand...
what about the pic rail screws (6-48 or 8-40), & action screws?
 
#8
Another vote for the FAT wrench I also have a conventional 1/4" drive torgue wrench that serves the same uses.
When properly stored and cared for the FAT wrench will do pretty much everything you're looking for.
Just don't store it cranked down to its upper settings or below it's lowest setting and they are very servicable.
Wheeler also now has a kit out mimicking the borka fix it sticks with pre set torque limiting heads I just haven't tried them.
 
#9
I have a Wiha set with numerous bits, etc.
I also have a FixIt Sticks optics toolkit with individual torque limiters and a bunch of bits. Nightforce has a similar scope mounting tool kit. (eligible for their military discount too)

All work well. The Wiha gives you the perception of being more accurate as you can dial the exact number you want. Best bet is to find the form you want with the torque limiters you need.
 
#10
ma smith said:
Pic rail crossbolts 65-100
Action Screws 45-65
Chassis HW - 15-35 (also Pic Rails to Action, etc)
Scope Rings 18-25
Turrets, Internal 4
Click to expand...
ma smith said:
Pic rail crossbolts 65-100
Action Screws 45-65
Chassis HW - 15-35 (also Pic Rails to Action, etc)
Scope Rings 18-25
Turrets, Internal 4
Click to expand...
for the 4 in/lb, do you have a limiter? Borka advertises theirs, but I don't like the idea of limiters. What if there's a scope brand you switch to then you have to buy a different limiter. I saw a 1-10 in/lb wrench on amazon for $80. Looks pretty decent to me for that purpose

regarding cross bolts, is that something that needs attention in the field, or have you hardly even had to torque those? would you say most brands are closer to 65, or are most closer to 100?
 
#11
Had a borka, did not like the finickyness of how to manipulate it (inconsistent values depending on hold and angle), sold it.

Also currently have:
Fix it kit individual limiters set (settled on this as the winner a few years ago)
Fix it kit all in one set
Wheeler FAT torque wrench
Snap On ( shop certified) 1/4” torque click wrench.
Williams ( shop certified) 1/4” torque beam wrench

The kit I use the most is the fix it sticks individual limiters set with an additional 30”lb limiter and a long 3/16” ball end allen bit (used for chassis bolts). I use it almost exclusively at the range and at home as I don’t have to set up or watch the indicators line up. Just select the proper limiter , bit , and twist until you get three clicks. It does just about everything I need for torquing on optics and guns. That is the only kit I carry in the range bag

store.fixitsticks.com

Rifle & Optics Toolkit With Individual Torque Limiters | Fix It Sticks

Carry Fix It Sticks' Rifle and Optics Toolkit with Individual Torque Limiters and you can precisely tighten scope rings, mounts and much more.
store.fixitsticks.com store.fixitsticks.com

I have no problems using any of the others listed above that I own. My employer (aircraft industry) had torque verification calibrated testers for 1/4 1/2 3/4” and all of those were under 4% variation. That was a pleasant surprise that the wheeler fat wrench was that close and repeatable.

Everybody loves the concept of the all-in-one limiter, but I find it too slow and tedious when doing multiple fasteners, (like on a six screw scope ring set, 12 screws in a torque pattern with rising values eats a lot of time if you have to watch each tightening sequence line up the value marks).
 
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#13
colt.45 said:
how are you able to get 85 in/lb? The one on his website says 10-70
Click to expand...
IMG_2246.jpeg
IMG_2247.jpeg
 
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#14
XLR308 said:
Another vote for the FAT wrench I also have a conventional 1/4" drive torgue wrench that serves the same uses.
When properly stored and cared for the FAT wrench will do pretty much everything you're looking for.
Just don't store it cranked down to its upper settings or below it's lowest setting and they are very servicable.
Wheeler also now has a kit out mimicking the borka fix it sticks with pre set torque limiting heads I just haven't tried them.
Click to expand...
I didn't know that was a problem about being under the lowest setting. I know they are supposed to be at the lowest but didn't know they had to be engaged. I actually have a FAT wrench. It came with a kit I bought years ago. It sat in the box for years at a setting above the lowest, though not its highest. Then for another couple years (cuz like I said I didn't know this), it sat in the box at below its lowest setting, where it is now. The mechanism does not move smoothly and overall it doesn't really inspire confidence. I'd hate to risk damage to an expensive scope, so I'm okay with upgrading.
 
#15
Tiger_Shilone said:
Had a borka, did not like the finickyness of how to manipulate it (inconsistent values depending on hold and angle), sold it.

Also currently have:
Fix it kit individual limiters set (settled on this as the winner a few years ago)
Fix it kit all in one set
Wheeler FAT torque wrench
Snap On ( shop certified) 1/4” torque click wrench.
Williams ( shop certified) 1/4” torque beam wrench

The kit I use the most is the fix it sticks individual limiters set with an additional 30”lb limiter and a long 3/16” ball end allen bit (used for chassis bolts). I use it almost exclusively at the range and at home as I don’t have to set up or watch the indicators line up. Just select the proper limiter , bit , and twist until you get three clicks. It does just about everything I need for torquing on optics and guns. That is the only kit I carry in the range bag

store.fixitsticks.com

Rifle & Optics Toolkit With Individual Torque Limiters | Fix It Sticks

Carry Fix It Sticks' Rifle and Optics Toolkit with Individual Torque Limiters and you can precisely tighten scope rings, mounts and much more.
store.fixitsticks.com store.fixitsticks.com

I have no problems using any of the others listed above that I own. My employer (aircraft industry) had torque verification calibrated testers for 1/4 1/2 3/4” and all of those were under 4% variation. That was a pleasant surprise that the wheeler fat wrench was that close and repeatable.

Everybody loves the concept of the all-in-one limiter, but I find it too slow and tedious when doing multiple fasteners, (like on a six screw scope ring set, 12 screws in a torque pattern with rising values eats a lot of time if you have to watch each tightening sequence line up the value marks).
Click to expand...
I thought hard about the limiters, but being new to this sport, im nowhere near where I have an idea of what brands im going to want and would not like to spend several hundred dollars just to switch stuff around and have half or none of them work
 
#16
I use and have 3 FAT wrenches. I also have a small torque driver that goes to like 2 lbs, another tekton that does like 20-200” lbs. I also have an all in one fix it sticks I carry in my backpack. Along with another T handle with limiters for quick changing my LMT barrels at 140” lbs and 55” lbs for my AI’s

I’m not even sure over the years how I acquired so many. I know one fat wrench as given to me by a member here and the fix it sticks all in one I got on a package deal

There’s some good threads here where guys have tested lots of these wrenches against each other. The fat seems to hold its own on those.

Personally for mounting scopes and what not I still use fat wrenches. They’re my go to in the gun room. The fix it sticks I use for the quick change barrels and carry as a field pack.

Only on very few occasions like some ring crossbolts (NF I believe is one at 100” lbs) does the fat wrench not cover them. And of course the lmt barrel change screws are well above the fat wrench capabilities.

I think a fat wrench and a tekton would cover the majority of anything you’d do. The tekton can be used on many other things as well beyond just gun stuff if needed where you don’t need individual limiters

It goes without saying but buy a good set of quality driver bits. Having several sets isn’t a bad idea as I’ve found sets like the wheeler don’t cover everything or some aftermarket bit sets have better fit or have sizes that the wheeler doesn’t offer. Good bits save headaches down the road

I’ve mounted a ton of rails, scopes, rings etc over the last 15 years with mine. Always a dab of blue loctite and using recommended settings and have not damaged a scope or had any rails or rings come loose. I have seen damage from using super cheap rings (weaver tactical) and have stripped my fair share of heads due to having bits that were “close” to fitting. Which is why I recommend having a decent amount of bits to ensure fitting properly.

My advice is if you chance it and it seems close to fitting and grabs the bit from the head of your driver (sticks in the screw) when you torque down. Use the remaining head that’s not stripped to back the screw out and start over with a new screw and proper bit. I learned a few lessons along the way here
 
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#17
colt.45 said:
I didn't know that was a problem about being under the lowest setting. I know they are supposed to be at the lowest but didn't know they had to be engaged. I actually have a FAT wrench. It came with a kit I bought years ago. It sat in the box for years at a setting above the lowest, though not its highest. Then for another couple years (cuz like I said I didn't know this), it sat in the box at below its lowest setting, where it is now. The mechanism does not move smoothly and overall it doesn't really inspire confidence. I'd hate to risk damage to an expensive scope, so I'm okay with upgrading.
Click to expand...
It's a thing with pretty much all torgue wrenches that are manually adjusted with spring tension on them.
Close to the bottom of the range ( near lowest setting) helps keep the spring from weakening over time and affecting its calibration and accuracy.
Adjusting below the minimum setting can also cause damage and effect accuracy.
I was told this years ago and read it in owners documentation as well.
Obviously it's not an issue for digital torgue wrenches like my Snap On Tech wrench but I loosen the battery cap after every use which effectively puts it in a dorment mode and prevents battery drain.
 
#19
HD1911 said:
View attachment 8603579View attachment 8603580
Click to expand...
hafejd30 said:
I use and have 3 FAT wrenches. I also have a small torque driver that goes to like 2 lbs, another tekton that does like 20-200” lbs. I also have an all in one fix it sticks I carry in my backpack. Along with another T handle with limiters for quick changing my LMT barrels at 140” lbs and 55” lbs for my AI’s

I’m not even sure over the years how I acquired so many. I know one fat wrench as given to me by a member here and the fix it sticks all in one I got on a package deal

There’s some good threads here where guys have tested lots of these wrenches against each other. The fat seems to hold its own on those.

Personally for mounting scopes and what not I still use fat wrenches. They’re my go to in the gun room. The fix it sticks I use for the quick change barrels and carry as a field pack.

Only on very few occasions like some ring crossbolts (NF I believe is one at 100” lbs) does the fat wrench not cover them. And of course the lmt barrel change screws are well above the fat wrench capabilities.

I think a fat wrench and a tekton would cover the majority of anything you’d do. The tekton can be used on many other things as well beyond just gun stuff if needed where you don’t need individual limiters

It goes without saying but buy a good set of quality driver bits. Having several sets isn’t a bad idea as I’ve found sets like the wheeler don’t cover everything or some aftermarket bit sets have better fit or have sizes that the wheeler doesn’t offer. Good bits save headaches down the road

I’ve mounted a ton of rails, scopes, rings etc over the last 15 years with mine. Always a dab of blue loctite and using recommended settings and have not damaged a scope or had any rails or rings come loose. I have seen damage from using super cheap rings (weaver tactical) and have stripped my fair share of heads due to having bits that were “close” to fitting. Which is why I recommend having a decent amount of bits to ensure fitting properly.

My advice is if you chance it and it seems close to fitting and grabs the bit from the head of your driver (sticks in the screw) when you torque down. Use the remaining head that’s not stripped to back the screw out and start over with a new screw and proper bit. I learned a few lessons along the way here
Click to expand...
100"#s on the NF is a lot. Good to know. Ive been curious about those mounts for a long time as ive been told they are the strongest mounts in the "lightweight" category. I wonder what the Badger C1 and Geissele super precision call for.

Ive got milwaukee bits that work great. I had used some ryobi garbage prior to that and they bent under torque. The Wiha bits look attractive to me.
 
#24
Budrichard said:
It is impossible for a BORKA to go out of calibration!
In fact because the design uses basic Physics principles, there is no calibration.
-Richard
Click to expand...
Although I am a very big Borka fan, I would not say it’s impossible. At some point / amount of use the wear of the hinge assembly could take it out of calibration.
 
#26
Love my CDI split beam torque wrenches for barrels and muzzle devices.
Wiha and Wera are my go-to for drivers to use on mounts, rings, rails, mlok, etc.
This Capri wrench is a good middle ground to cover action screws and mounts that require relatively high torque values.

Wera’s new safe torque speed driver looks like a great option for a range bag.
 
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#28
jbell said:
Although I am a very big Borka fan, I would not say it’s impossible. At some point / amount of use the wear of the hinge assembly could take it out of calibration.
Click to expand...

Correct. The condition of the spring, ball, preload adjustment screw, the ramp/detent on the lever arm, and lubrication state of all those moving parts can all cause the borka to drift and go out of calibration over time. What the borka has going for it is the preload on the spring is fixed after the initial calibration and user adjustment of the spring compression is not the primary method of torque setting so the spring isn't negatively affected by being accidentally left at the highest setting/compression after use by the end user like a conventional torque driver that increases and decreases the compression on the spring to adjust torque.

I like the borka for a compact field kit but you need to make sure you apply the force to the handle exactly as Boris shows, or you can significantly change the applied torque vs the set torque, especially at lower settings. With an incorrect grip on the handle it's possible to apply 35+ in-lb torque before the handle breaks over even with the wrench set on 15 in-lb, I found this out while testing my borka in the calibration lab at work. The borka is accurate when used exactly as the instructions say but it is very technique sensitive because of the handle design which allows multiple incorrect grip styles and applications of force. Compare this to a screwdriver style torque driver which is extremely forgiving to use because there's only one way to hold it and twist it to apply force.

The technique sensitivity of the borka is why I only use it as a backup now, my primary torque drivers for gun use are 2 mountz EMT series screwdriver style drivers, 1 10-50 in-lb and 1 30-80 in-lb, that covers everything I've needed to do optics mount or action screw related. Mountz has a new 8-80 in-lb driver with digital display that would replace both drivers but I don't like a field tool that needs batteries, because then you really should carry spare batteries and the tools to change said battery.

Snap On and Sturtevant Richmond also make very accurate digital 4-80 in-lb screwdriver style torque drivers (S-R is likely the OEM for the Snap On driver as they look exactly the same besides color and label) but they are rather expensive.

Wiha and Wera torque drivers work well and are reasonably priced, but they seem to top out at 50, 55, or or 62 in-lb, which isn't enough for many 2 cross bolt style rings/mounts like nightforce or badger. I wish both of them would make a higher torque range model that covers the 40-80 or 50-100 in-lb range that way 2 drivers would cover pretty much any optic or action screw related fastener on a rifle.

Tohnichi also makes very accurate adjustable torque drivers, but they're more expensive than wiha/wera and again, you'll need 2 to cover the entire range of torque values needed.

Or buy a fix it sticks set with all the appropriate torque limiters you need, even though the +/- 10% accuracy isn't as good as some of the other adjustable torque drivers. +/- 10% will probably not result in a slipping scope or stripped fasteners.
 
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#29
RayDBonz said:
I have a Wiha set with numerous bits, etc.
I also have a FixIt Sticks optics toolkit with individual torque limiters and a bunch of bits. Nightforce has a similar scope mounting tool kit. (eligible for their military discount too)

All work well. The Wiha gives you the perception of being more accurate as you can dial the exact number you want. Best bet is to find the form you want with the torque limiters you need.
Click to expand...
I'm interested in picking up the NF tool kit, where is it available thru the veterans program? I dont see it on ExpertVoice.
 
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