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22arc versus 6 arc

#151
I can't stand it not having my reloading equipment set up yet

I am putting the finishing touches on this room and need to build another table and some shelving in the closet and a couple of sets of shelving and it will be my reloading space

it is taking me a long time learning how to do all of this myself lol remodeling a house from the 1950's but I'm single so it gives me a healthy hobby lol

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#152
"The short answer is yes, the long answer is we have multiple dealings with 22ARC running AE suppressors - we are launching a direct mounted barrel so you don't need their muzzle device or taper mount collar - and we are also offering an 18 Mk12 barrel -

Those are launching on the RTR line soon - probably late February if it was my guess"

From Craddock for MK12s if anyone was interested like myself.
 
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#153
5RWill said:
"The short answer is yes, the long answer is we have multiple dealings with 22ARC running AE suppressors - we are launching a direct mounted barrel so you don't need their muzzle device or taper mount collar - and we are also offering an 18 Mk12 barrel -

Those are launching on the RTR line soon - probably late February if it was my guess"

From Craddock for MK12s if anyone was interested like myself.
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That's the OPS Inc 12th and M24 models. I'd rather the barrel threaded 5/8-24 because the OPS brake outer threads are not commonly used for anything else firearms related. The brakes takes a lot of abuse too.
 
#157
5RWill said:
I’m missing the point i think. You want a 12th model taper threaded in 5/8x24 to not use a aem5 or 12th model?
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No, unless I'm missunderstanding, Craddock is proposing a 3rd model profile and thread with a 12th model spacing. The threads on the exterior of the brake are instead cut onto the muzzle of the barrel, instead of using the brake.

Here is what I'm talking about; a barrel with the taper machined directly and 5/8 threads for the brake.
 

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#159
LRRPF52 said:
had a hard time registering their hits visually through good optics when the
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There’s a fair amount of people in this area shooting 223 for prs. The problem for them. Is it’s when most of you lose points because no one can see or hear your hits in some conditions

I never had issues with that with 6cm between 2950-3150
 
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#160
5RWill said:
"The short answer is yes, the long answer is we have multiple dealings with 22ARC running AE suppressors - we are launching a direct mounted barrel so you don't need their muzzle device or taper mount collar - and we are also offering an 18 Mk12 barrel -

Those are launching on the RTR line soon - probably late February if it was my guess"

From Craddock for MK12s if anyone was interested like myself.
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I wonder if it's going to be something like this but for gasguns. I love this for my OCM5 but you're going to need a .936" gas block to make it work.
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#166
Cascade Hemi said:
It's cut wrong. The threads are supposed to be at the muzzle. The end of your barrel is reducing the blast chamber volume.
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No it's cut exactly how I asked. It adds over an inch of barrel length with no added overall length to the gun with the suppressor added. It simply replaces the muzzle brake with added barrel length.

The volume difference between the brake and the solid barrel is small and likely makes little to no difference in suppression. If it's a big deal for someone he could turn down the portion in front of the threads to a thinner diameter to get that tiny increase in volume.
 
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#167
BurtG said:
There’s a fair amount of people in this area shooting 223 for prs. The problem for them. Is it’s when most of you lose points because no one can see or hear your hits in some conditions

I never had issues with that with 6cm between 2950-3150
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I fall into that category - running a 26" 1/7 twist bolt gun in .223 with 88 elds. It's frustrating, and I lose at least 5 impacts a match due to that. I'm not going to argue or contend an RO's decision. I just let it be. I made that choice, and I am going with a different cartridge this spring.
 
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#168
rookie7 said:
I fall into that category - running a 26" 1/7 twist bolt gun in .223 with 88 elds. It's frustrating, and I lose at least 5 impacts a match due to that. I'm not going to argue or contend an RO's decision. I just let it be. I made that choice, and I am going with a different cartridge this spring.
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Lucky for me most of the shots at the matches I go to are under 1000yds and they put flashers on big/fixed targets that don't move much or targets past 600yds. Zero issues for me shooting 223 with 88s/85.5s and maybe a handful of times with 75s over the past couple years.
 
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#169
jzerfoss said:
I wonder if it's going to be something like this but for gasguns. I love this for my OCM5 but you're going to need a .936" gas block to make it work.
View attachment 8611883View attachment 8611884
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Probably but I’m really not interested in the direct mount platform is heavy already for an AR15 with a medium contour MK12 barrel. I just want a 22 arc mod 0/1 barrel so i can make a mod 0 in 22 arc and use my aem5
 
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#170
5RWill said:
Probably but I’m really not interested in the direct mount platform is heavy already for an AR15 with a medium contour MK12 barrel. I just want a 22 arc mod 0/1 barrel so i can make a mod 0 in 22 arc and use my aem5
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There would definitely be some weight added. Not that I'm itching for one but a Mod H style 22 ARC would be fun.
 
#171
jzerfoss said:
No it's cut exactly how I asked. It adds over an inch of barrel length with no added overall length to the gun with the suppressor added. It simply replaces the muzzle brake with added barrel length.

The volume difference between the brake and the solid barrel is small and likely makes little to no difference in suppression. If it's a big deal for someone he could turn down the portion in front of the threads to a thinner diameter to get that tiny increase in volume.
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If you're happy with the performance that is all that matters. I can't remember if OCL retained the chamber over the barrel in the OCM5. OPS/AEM silencers have ports right after the threads that correspond to the brake ports. If you move the barrel forward of the threads you will block the ports. It probably isn't super critical to bolt gun applications but it adds back pressure. Blast chamber volume does have a significant effect on sound performance too.
 
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#172
Cascade Hemi said:
If you're happy with the performance that is all that matters. I can't remember if OCL retained the chamber over the barrel in the OCM5. OPS/AEM silencers have ports right after the threads that correspond to the brake ports. If you move the barrel forward of the threads you will block the ports. It probably isn't super critical to bolt gun applications but it adds back pressure. Blast chamber volume does have a significant effect on sound performance too.
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On the OCM5 it doesn't block the opening that leads to the additional volume towards the back of the can. Just forces the gas coming off the blast baffle down the gap between the additional barrel length and the suppressor tube. The AEM5 is different... That gap is smaller at a point but not closed off completely. That may make a difference but IDK.

I just know that on my 16" 223 bolt guns the OCM5 with that machined in mount sounds great for as little length that's added. If someone wanted to stop the barrel at the threads for that additional volume they could but Idk how much additional suppression you'd get.

Also, if you're trying to meet the minimum 16" to avoid SBR like I was you'll be adding 1.3" to the overall length of the setup which for me defeats the idea of the build. Which is keep the build as short as possible while using the OCM5 or OCM HUB mount.

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#175
MaximusDecimusMeidius said:
I'm giving up on 6 arc and going back to bolt actions

the velocity just isn't there with 16" barrels

might as well go bolt action for a 26" barrel
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I'm gonna wait a bit. But I think some 80-90 grain bullets are still gonna be pretty effective inside 500. I plan on building one as I've acquired to much free brass to scrap.. haha so why not build another rifle.
 
#177
MaximusDecimusMeidius said:
I'm giving up on 6 arc and going back to bolt actions

the velocity just isn't there with 16" barrels

might as well go bolt action for a 26" barrel
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I can see why some people would prefer a shorter semi to run a can but I use brakes on my semi's and for long range I like longer barrels. Mine is a 22" 6mmFatRat/95SMK/.5BC/2924 fps, which is quite effective and has a softer recoil impulse. Pretty much does .75 MOA which isn't bad at all.
The combo is too nice not to have.
 
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#178
232593 said:
@Ledzep how fast can the Hornady 73 ELDs be run out of a 1/7 twist barrel before they come apart?
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Most match bullets are on a sliding scale from about 280,000rpm( begin grey zone) to 380,000rpm (black). Really depends on temperature and bore geometry and surface finish.

For a 7 twist that's about 2700-3700fps. I would guess most people won't see problems until they're over 3100-3200fps, though. I know guys running 75s up over 3400fps with success and I know guys that have vaporized bullets that fast too.

Why the 73 and not 75? Just curious
 
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#180
Ledzep said:
Most match bullets are on a sliding scale from about 280,000rpm( begin grey zone) to 380,000rpm (black). Really depends on temperature and bore geometry and surface finish.

For a 7 twist that's about 2700-3700fps. I would guess most people won't see problems until they're over 3100-3200fps, though. I know guys running 75s up over 3400fps with success and I know guys that have vaporized bullets that fast too.

Why the 73 and not 75? Just curious
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I have a several thousand of them.
 
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#184
Jonny_ said:
Mind expanding on why you prefer the 22arc over 6 please? I'm trying to prevent future regret choosing one of these.
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Most of the bullets I ran in my six arc to keep somewhat decent speed with the temp stable powder were very close to heavy 22 caliber bullets and the 22 arc has more case capacity than the shorter six arc.
I can run this 80 grain ELD quite a bit faster than I could run the 85 gr Sierra in my six arc
 
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#186
Ledzep said:
Most match bullets are on a sliding scale from about 280,000rpm( begin grey zone) to 380,000rpm (black). Really depends on temperature and bore geometry and surface finish.

For a 7 twist that's about 2700-3700fps. I would guess most people won't see problems until they're over 3100-3200fps, though. I know guys running 75s up over 3400fps with success and I know guys that have vaporized bullets that fast too.

Why the 73 and not 75? Just curious
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Also, I really like that 73 grain bullet. It’s kind of an easy button for load development.

Wouldn’t happen to know or have any ARCOMP recipes for it with the 22 ARC would you?
 
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#189
Jonny_ said:
Mind expanding on why you prefer the 22arc over 6 please? I'm trying to prevent future regret choosing one of these.
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One of the big reasons that I picked 6 ARC is because it was adopted by the US Military. I know that 6 Max and 22 ARC have their ballistic advantages but they are always some kind of not adopted round that pushes the limits. Based on the tenders that we see, I think 6 ARC is just going to keep chugging along which means greater availability.
 
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#190
ut755ln said:
One of the big reasons that I picked 6 ARC is because it was adopted by the US Military. I know that 6 Max and 22 ARC have their ballistic advantages but they are always some kind of not adopted round that pushes the limits. Based on the tenders that we see, I think 6 ARC is just going to keep chugging along which means greater availability.
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I dont think the very, VERY small part of the .mil that took on the 6arc will have anything to do with its success or failure. It is a good round, and with hornady backing, I think thats enough to keep it around a long time.
 
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#191
Jmccracken1214 said:
I dont think the very, VERY small part of the .mil that took on the 6arc will have anything to do with its success or failure. It is a good round, and with hornady backing, I think thats enough to keep it around a long time.
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The company I work for has a significant investment in a newish ammunition manufacturing facility and we are a USM contractor. To date, the USN, the USAF, the USA all have adopted 6 ARC at a level and all are evaluating the round in various platforms. For instance, Sig has supplied multiple uppers in the LT platform for 6 ARC for the Army.

Test after test after test is proving that it is just better than 5.56 at every range with the same small frame platform.
 
#192
Jmccracken1214 said:
I dont think the very, VERY small part of the .mil that took on the 6arc will have anything to do with its success or failure. It is a good round, and with hornady backing, I think thats enough to keep it around a long time.
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That was initially true when it was just the original customers, but with more DM/Snipers in SOCOM adopting it, that will put a lot of wind in 6mm ARC’s sail.

Especially with the Surefire/Magpul collaboration on the ICAR, and the emergence of 338 ARC, it establishes a new ecosystem for the .441” case head cartridges like 22 ARC, 6mm ARC, 6.5 Grendel, and 338 ARC.

Basically a new generation of AR-15 that runs on true intermediate cartridges, vs the smaller .378” cartridges.
 
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#194
Cascade Hemi said:
Hopefully 243LBC makes a comeback with ICAR.
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I've got a 6mm Grendel/243LBC/6mm Predator, whatever you want to call it, and my numbers are almost identical to 6ARC. What's the shoulder difference, like .060? Not much. I might be able to achieve slightly higher max velocities but the nodes where they are happiest are the same.
 
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#195
TonyTheTiger said:
I've got a 6mm Grendel/243LBC/6mm Predator, whatever you want to call it, and my numbers are almost identical to 6ARC. What's the shoulder difference, like .060? Not much. I might be able to achieve slightly higher max velocities but the nodes where they are happiest are the same.
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Probably because the two have the same COAL using AR15 magazines.
 
#198
TonyTheTiger said:
I've got a 6mm Grendel/243LBC/6mm Predator, whatever you want to call it, and my numbers are almost identical to 6ARC. What's the shoulder difference, like .060? Not much. I might be able to achieve slightly higher max velocities but the nodes where they are happiest are the same.
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.030” shoulder set-back on the 6mm ARC due to the tight COL restrictions of the Elander mags and a specific long ogive projectile for the initial customers. Hornady said something about one of the mags making it so that COL had to be adjusted due to tolerance variations in production of magazines. That screamed Elander to me, since you can’t load long with them.

Alexander Arms even changed their COLs on Grendel ammo from 2.260” to 2.245” because of the Elanders. They switched from CProducts mags to Elanders a while back.

The thing I don’t like about setting the shoulder back any more from an already front-heavy cartridge is the cartridge stack behavior during lifting into presentation. Momentum of the stack is centered around the mass of the projectiles, teetering on the shoulders.

The 6mm AR Turbo 40 Improved moves the shoulder forward and adds at least 2 grains of case capacity over 6mm AR, but sacrificed neck length.

All of this is shows why it’s important for the rifle, ammo, and magazine specs to all be dictated by a single engineering team working together, even if they’re in different companies. Everyone needs to "sit at the same table" and visit it frequently during the RDT&E process.
 
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#200
You can go larger in case diameter in the AR 15 but keep pressures low.
A 6mm ARC grendel head dia, 30 Dasher 308 head dia, and a 30 RAR .500 head dia.

I have the 6 mm ARC and made a 30 RAR, because the reamer was instock for 30 RAR, the 30 Dasher may take 6 months...or more. Everything is slow theses days.

Problem here is you have to be able to make your own AR 15 barrel from a blank.
Unless you have someone else do the machining making it a very expensive project.
The 30 RAR feeds great out of 450 Bushmaster mags, and its accurate.
If you can do the machining you can make these calibers fairly cheap.

Even a free long barrel off a bolt gun, that's shot out, but cut out the chamber area, then shorten, profile, thread, chamber, barrel extension, gas journal, and port etc. Plus a finish reamer of your choice.
With a bit of labor ya got a wildcat AR 15 .500" case head dia, any caliber ya want, .17 to .45.
 

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