Emotional roller coaster: 6 powder droppers in < 3 years!

secondofangle2

secondofangle2

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    • Jul 3, 2017
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    #1
    Waited on ATV4, sold 2 RCBS chargemasters in 2022

    Got ATV4 Spring 2022. Wait! I need a shim? It sits precariously atop the stock scale cover which was not made for weight atop it? the motors bind up over 90 degrees? F-this I'm selling and it (at a small loss) and getting this awesome supertrickler that's coming out!

    SuperSpiller comes out. I become a beta-tester with a guy named AH. We test HUNDREDS of software iterations. There is no software fix for that stupid vibratory tube and its temperature sensitivity. I sell it, in anticipation of the Ingenuity Precision in FALL 2023.

    The IP is delayed for YEARS! AH sells me an ATV2 (with V3 software) to get me by, 6 months AFTER the advertised IP release (summer 2024). What a primitive POS! I struggle along, awaiting the IP. I polish the trickler tube, I change the belts, I superglue loose parts....But it's never quite right, and the IP never comes....It's now early March, 2024....

    So I buy ANOTHER V4, which I received today. Easy to set up. good instructions. Still sits atop like a house of cards. But an elegant machine with great software, and easy peasy bluetooth, and an intuitive App!

    After all this frustration for almost 3 years, it is like ECSTASY dumping charges. It just WORKS! l'm in HEAVEN!!! (I fed it AR-COMP, easy test, no fat stick powders like H50BMG, RL50, or n570, to kill this buzz!)

    But now I've dumped 100 charges, and I have to empty this fucking thing. Wait, what? OK, take off the hopper. Now what? unplug the fucking wire? WHAT? Shake it like a shank-n-bake chicken? What about these windows? These stupid fucking "windows" on the front and the rear? Oh my fuck, now there is powder all over every-fucking-where and I remember why I sold this POS almost 3 years ago!

    But, TBH, this is the one I will keep. Maybe even after IP full system comes out...get another scale, run two of them for different powder morphologies....?
     
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    #6
    after I play the "emotional damage" video, screwtube suggests some more videos for me to watch, and there's a scantily clad woman diving in the ocean, and I click that and all my troubles are washed away

    for a minute.

    now I'm frustrated again. In a different way. I'll probably get the IP system before I get her.

    Pass the lube
     
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    #13
    So, a friend of mine got a ATV4 and sent me vids of it dispensing in seconds and only off .03gr or some crazy shit. My dreams are now shattered wanting to upgrade from my 1500 Chargemaster!
     
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    #15
    Nothing personal but….

    What a complete bullshit premise to this video: imma use an AMP/mate, A419 Zero press, CPS and then skimp on the fucking dispenser? Ain’t nobody gonna ever do that.

    Plus 550 yards is not where your SD is going to show, even w a 308

    But TBH, I didn’t have the patience to watch the whole thing

    Seems like a shill for RCBS or rationalization material for those who refuse to get an A&D scale

    ETA: I watched most of the rest at 2x; he DID get the RCBS scale for free. And the A&D scale had lower SD. And his test doesn't prove diddley - too small of sample size, too many variables responsible for the group sizes he's comparing. And we have no way of knowing he didn't edit stuff out selectively (esp since he got the RCBS for free).

    I'm NOT saying the A&D scale precision is not desirable; I'm only saying that I want a trickler that is not a PITA to use
     
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    #16
    secondofangle2 said:
    Nothing personal but….

    What a complete bullshit premise to this video: imma use an AMP/mate, A419 Zero press, CPS and then skimp on the fucking dispenser? Ain’t nobody gonna ever do that.

    Plus 550 yards is not where your SD is going to show, even w a 308

    But TBH, I didn’t have the patience to watch the whole thing

    Seems like a shill for RCBS or rationalization material for those who refuse to get an A&D scale

    ETA: I watched most of the rest at 2x; he DID get the RCBS scale for free. And the A&D scale had lower SD. And his test doesn't prove diddley - too small of sample size, too many variables responsible for the group sizes he's comparing. And we have no way of knowing he didn't edit stuff out selectively (esp since he got the RCBS for free).

    I'm NOT saying the A&D scale precision is not desirable; I'm only saying that I want a trickler that is not a PITA to use
    Click to expand...
    I dont disagree with you. It seems like RCBS is peddling a lot of their stuff to "influencers" lately.

    I did watch another video of his though where he was using two chargemasters to load his prs ammo now. He claimed it was faster and there wasn't enough difference in sd to warrant waiting on the super trickler.

    I watched a speedy Gonzalez video a while back where he was touring the loading area at a br match. I was surprised at how many chargemasters were in use with that crowd.

    I'd love to have a high dollar trickler setup but the volume I load for I just can't justify it. That money for me is better spent on components.
     
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    #18
    XP1K said:


    This surprised me. As for myself, I still use an ancient redding beam scale and a trickler. Recently built myself a knockoff dandy vibratory trickler. Life changing. 🤣
    Click to expand...


    I'd like to see him repeat that test with a 10 round group at twice the distance of 550 yards (with a .308). Heck, just 1K yards would be fine.

    A whopping 50 FPS ES at 550 is only worth about 3 inches of vertical at that distance (.308, 168 hybrids at 2700-2750). Do it at 1K and it becomes about 16 inches. Big damn difference.

    *****

    As for me, I'm still dragging me feet and manually throwing directly to a mid-tier beam scale. I am 100% positive it takes me significantly more time than the expensive setups. However, my headaches are non-existent, and my results are pretty awesome... so my need to change hasn't occurred just yet.
     
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    #19
    diggler1833 said:
    I'd like to see him repeat that test with a 10 round group at twice the distance of 550 yards (with a .308). Heck, just 1K yards would be fine.

    A whopping 50 FPS ES at 550 is only worth about 3 inches of vertical at that distance (.308, 168 hybrids at 2700-2750). Do it at 1K and it becomes about 16 inches. Big damn difference.
    Click to expand...
    He had an es of 50 ? I guess I missed that part. That's no Bueno. If I get into the twenties, for my application I'm okay, but any more than that and I start exploring other avenues.
     
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    #20
    his RCBS SD was 7.2ish and ST/A&D SD was 5.2ish

    Taking only that data, I'd go with an A&D setup

    about 8 years ago, I posted a thread about how much of what we do reloading is unnecessary, and I started loading my 223 (maybe even 308) ammo just using bulk drops from an RCBS unithrow - not measuring individual charges.

    At 100 yards on paper that was fine; over a chrono or past 500 yards it was a disaster, so I went back to the chargemaster and bought a second one to speed up the process. I had been unwilling to pony up the dough for the A&D at that time. I will never go back though
     
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    #21
    XP1K said:
    He had an es of 50 ? I guess I missed that part. That's no Bueno. If I get into the twenties, for my application I'm okay, but any more than that and I start exploring other avenues.
    Click to expand...

    No. I was just highlighting how far one could be off on their charge weights and still have the potential for sub-MOA vertical dispersion.
     
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    #22
    secondofangle2 said:
    Waited on ATV4, sold 2 RCBS chargemasters in 2022

    Got ATV4 Spring 2022. Wait! I need a shim? It sits precariously atop the stock scale cover which was not made for weight atop it? the motors bind up over 90 degrees? F-this I'm selling and it (at a small loss) and getting this awesome supertrickler that's coming out!

    SuperSpiller comes out. I become a beta-tester with a guy named AH. We test HUNDREDS of software iterations. There is no software fix for that stupid vibratory tube and its temperature sensitivity. I sell it, in anticipation of the Ingenuity Precision in FALL 2023.

    The IP is delayed for YEARS! AH sells me an ATV2 (with V3 software) to get me by, 6 months AFTER the advertised IP release (summer 2024). What a primitive POS! I struggle along, awaiting the IP. I polish the trickler tube, I change the belts, I superglue loose parts....But it's never quite right, and the IP never comes....It's now early March, 2024....

    So I buy ANOTHER V4, which I received today. Easy to set up. good instructions. Still sits atop like a house of cards. But an elegant machine with great software, and easy peasy bluetooth, and an intuitive App!

    After all this frustration for almost 3 years, it is like ECSTASY dumping charges. It just WORKS! l'm in HEAVEN!!! (I fed it AR-COMP, easy test, no fat stick powders like H50BMG, RL50, or n570, to kill this buzz!)

    But now I've dumped 100 charges, and I have to empty this fucking thing. Wait, what? OK, take off the hopper. Now what? unplug the fucking wire? WHAT? Shake it like a shank-n-bake chicken? What about these windows? These stupid fucking "windows" on the front and the rear? Oh my fuck, now there is powder all over every-fucking-where and I remember why I sold this POS almost 3 years ago!

    But, TBH, this is the one I will keep. Maybe even after IP full system comes out...get another scale, run two of them for different powder morphologies....?
    Click to expand...
    I have a v4 and love it. I use the shims and the plastic tip. I throw 87 grains of n568 in 12 to 15 seconds with very few over throws. The powder is big so I keep it within 86.98 to 87.04 and it's good. My sd and es are low. When getting the powder out I just take off the powder hoppet put it in the back open the window. Then turn the machine on the big tube for a bit then the little tube. Empty the cup and put the hopper in the back window again and tilt the machine back and it comes out empty and easy.
     
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    #23
    I used the suggestion above, remove the hopper and emptied that. Then I have a 1 pound powder container with the top cut off of it that I use as a repository, and I stuck that underneath the rear window and pulled it up, and that caught everything from in there, then I close the window did a demand spin of the small and the large tubes on the app for about a minute and mostly emptied them, and then I told them backwards, emptying the rest into the rear window reservoir again and opened it and that pretty much cleaned it out

    Not easy, Peezy, but really doable and without much mess

    Having been through all of the machines I have over three years, I think this is currently the best machine in production all things considered

    Note, that the V3 with IP is no longer technically in production

    I think I might get a second A& D scale and leave this thing set up for 223 and 308, and dedicate the IP to the larger caliber, but I don’t know.

    I also share my reloading space with a couple of buddies and maybe I could talk one of them into splitting the cost with me
     
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    #24
    Schw15 said:
    I have a v4 and love it. I use the shims and the plastic tip. I throw 87 grains of n568 in 12 to 15 seconds with very few over throws. The powder is big so I keep it within 86.98 to 87.04 and it's good. My sd and es are low. When getting the powder out I just take off the powder hoppet put it in the back open the window. Then turn the machine on the big tube for a bit then the little tube. Empty the cup and put the hopper in the back window again and tilt the machine back and it comes out empty and easy.
    Click to expand...
    After pulling powder hopper and dumping powder from back, just lift the V4 and dump the tubes. I dump right into the hopper no spills.
     
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    #25
    I'm trying to avoid disconnecting the wires. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the suggestions! This ATV4 is better than I gave it credit for the first time around. And I know MKM Tyler, he will hook me up.
     
    #26
    Also, the ATV2.5 is fine for small charges under 50 grains or so. But I load 375CT and 50 BMG - it has to do 2-3 throws for 135 and 236 grain charges, and with the lumber logs, it gets all bound up and I have to waste a bunch of charges that are 20+ grains under. Too long to trickle up, so I have to dump them.

    I have come to agree with the ATV3 + IPT guys - that's currently the best setup if you can cobble it together...
     
    #27
    secondofangle2 said:
    I'm trying to avoid disconnecting the wires. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the suggestions! This ATV4 is better than I gave it credit for the first time around. And I know MKM Tyler, he will hook me up.
    Click to expand...
    You don't have to disconnect wires. Mine are plenty long enough to dump without disconnecting.
     
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    #28
    secondofangle2 said:
    And I know MKM Tyler, he will hook me up.
    Click to expand...
    I have been working with MKM for a bit on upgrades for the V4. We are very close to a finished product. Latest tubes / overserts are coming for testing and we have a few beta testers. I think folks will like the new tubes / oversert we developed. Larger diameter and course threads with custom pitches which helps get kernels to single file out the tube and almost completely eliminates overthrows. Only overthrows I see now are when different / miss sized kernels fall at end or kernels are stuck together. Nothing I can do about that. It will run a little faster too. My current average with N555 type powders is 8 seconds a throw.
     
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    #30
    John Glidewell said:
    After pulling powder hopper and dumping powder from back, just lift the V4 and dump the tubes. I dump right into the hopper no spills.
    Click to expand...
    That's all good until you're loading for a match at 2am and forget to turn the hopper to the close off position and then dump the back windowed portion of powder onto your table 😂
     
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    #31
    John Glidewell said:
    I have been working with MKM for a bit on upgrades for the V4. We are very close to a finished product. Latest tubes / overserts are coming for testing and we have a few beta testers. I think folks will like the new tubes / oversert we developed. Larger diameter and course threads with custom pitches which helps get kernels to single file out the tube and almost completely eliminates overthrows. Only overthrows I see now are when different / miss sized kernels fall at end or kernels are stuck together. Nothing I can do about that. It will run a little faster too. My current average with N555 type powders is 8 seconds a throw.
    Click to expand...
    Any kind of timeline for release?
     
    #32
    Vivacious Stallion said:
    Any kind of timeline for release?
    Click to expand...
    Not yet. Shot Show and shoulder surgery kinda put a damper on this project. This next iteration for testing is on the printer as I understand. It will take a few weeks to thoroughly test these. If I had to guess, probably a few months. But it depends on a few things. One big one is if we need to make anymore adjustments to the oversert. I think we have gone through 5 or 6 iterations now with a few thread cuts being done by hand. They want it right before it goes on the site and we were not sure my ideas would work before we started down this rabbit hole. I do think we are close though. The last iteration was very close but needed a few tweaks.
     
    #35
    I’ve never tried to reload in an earthquake in which case I don’t think the v4 would be great. In all other circumstances though mine sits up there just fine. The most annoying part of emptying it is disconnecting.

    From time to time you just gotta work with the machine instead of improving your mouse trap.
     
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    #37
    secondofangle2 said:
    Waited on ATV4, sold 2 RCBS chargemasters in 2022

    Got ATV4 Spring 2022. Wait! I need a shim? It sits precariously atop the stock scale cover which was not made for weight atop it? the motors bind up over 90 degrees? F-this I'm selling and it (at a small loss) and getting this awesome supertrickler that's coming out!

    SuperSpiller comes out. I become a beta-tester with a guy named AH. We test HUNDREDS of software iterations. There is no software fix for that stupid vibratory tube and its temperature sensitivity. I sell it, in anticipation of the Ingenuity Precision in FALL 2023.

    The IP is delayed for YEARS! AH sells me an ATV2 (with V3 software) to get me by, 6 months AFTER the advertised IP release (summer 2024). What a primitive POS! I struggle along, awaiting the IP. I polish the trickler tube, I change the belts, I superglue loose parts....But it's never quite right, and the IP never comes....It's now early March, 2024....

    So I buy ANOTHER V4, which I received today. Easy to set up. good instructions. Still sits atop like a house of cards. But an elegant machine with great software, and easy peasy bluetooth, and an intuitive App!

    After all this frustration for almost 3 years, it is like ECSTASY dumping charges. It just WORKS! l'm in HEAVEN!!! (I fed it AR-COMP, easy test, no fat stick powders like H50BMG, RL50, or n570, to kill this buzz!)

    But now I've dumped 100 charges, and I have to empty this fucking thing. Wait, what? OK, take off the hopper. Now what? unplug the fucking wire? WHAT? Shake it like a shank-n-bake chicken? What about these windows? These stupid fucking "windows" on the front and the rear? Oh my fuck, now there is powder all over every-fucking-where and I remember why I sold this POS almost 3 years ago!

    But, TBH, this is the one I will keep. Maybe even after IP full system comes out...get another scale, run two of them for different powder morphologies....?
    Click to expand...
    I will give you my Autotrickler V4 experience.
    I put my order in and recieved it in February 2022.
    One of the first powders I tried was AA #7 which is a very fine ball powder.
    It was getting between the body and the large cylinder ultimately jamming the cylinder.
    I contacted Adam MacDonald and within a day he shipped me some tape to put on the cylinder to close the gap.
    This worked and within a couple of weeks Adam sent me a new replacement cylinder with tighter tolerances.

    I do use a couple of paper shims where the 2 front feet rest but that isn't a deal breaker for me.
    The easiest way I find to empty the Autotrickler is to twist the hopper to the closed position.
    I then put the glass cup in the back and lift the plastic window to fill the cup. After the second time the rear compartment is empty.
    I then lift the hopper off the Auto Trickler. I then tilt the dispenser backwards and sit it back down and lift the plastic window with the glass cup in place. I do this twice and there is no powder left anywhere. I don't even disconnect the wire.
    37 seconds and I'm all done.
    Pro tip if you want to tighten up the variance on the V4 you can add a second decimal place to your charge weight.
    If you want to drop 42.2gr put in 42.21gr. this way the minimum acceptable charge is 42.20 and the maximum is 42.22.
    If you put 42.2 then the acceptable range is 42.18 to 42.22
     
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    #38
    I went from a CM1500, to ATv3, and now have a ATv4.

    The Chargemaster was great for its time. Mine was accurate enough, and more importantly I knew how to keep it as accurate as possible.
    Of the 3, I prefer the v3. Its fast and stupid easy for setup, use and emptying. I sold it for what I paid for it for the v4 because I like N570 in my 300 PRC and the lincoln logs dont play well with the v3.

    As far as the v4? It works fine. Takes a bit of time to set up profiles for different powder types, but when done its easy enough. I do have to use a 3mm shim under the back of the scale to get N570 to run correctly. Emptying the powder isnt really that hard, shut it off at the drop, set it to dispense from the large tube, use a small cup when I open the door on the back to catch the majority, clean it out with a small paintbrush. Cleaning the small tube is a PITA, but Ive found that if I just turn it on and tip the unit forward on top of the scale and insert that 3mm shim under the rear, it comes out quickly enough. I just let it run while I work on other things for a minute or three which reduces my annoyance factor.

    The Ingenuity system? Looks badass. However, its not badass enough that I really want to sell my v4 and then drop another $500 for it.
     
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    #39
    LOL at you guys having issues getting the powder out of a V4. I can have mine totally empty and ready for a different powder in probably 30 seconds or less.

    Process:

    Twist hopper to shut it off, then gently lift hopper off the V4, set its dispensing port on the bottom inside the mouth of your powder bottle. Rotate base to open hopper, it drains into your powder bottle in about 1 second. Close dispensing port, tap base of hopper on a table to loosen any stuck granules in the hopper, repeat the first step.

    Next, grab entire scale with V4 on top, rotate it 180 degrees facing away from you. Take powder bottle and put its mouth under the back where the glass sliding port is, then slide the glass up a little and let it drain into the bottle. Slide glass back down, grab V4 top unit and lift up and tilt backwards and give a little shake to make powder in the tubes fall back towards you. Set V4 back on base and slide glass back up to drain into bottle… repeat a couple more times.

    Done.

    Also, I don’t disconnect anything. This can all be done while everything is still plugged in!
     
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    #41
    Been using a Chargemaster for 15 years, 1/10th gr no problem. Running on a power conditioner/surge suppressor which cleans up power and keeps the Gulf Coast thunderstorms from cooking the electronics. This should be used with ANY sensitive electronics. Still have an ancient Ohaus as a backup. Good enough for single digit ES/SD numbers. While I've checked out most the latest gadgets, none have given me reason to pull out the wallet.
     
    #42
    Vivacious Stallion said:
    That's all good until you're loading for a match at 2am and forget to turn the hopper to the close off position and then dump the back windowed portion of powder onto your table 😂
    Click to expand...
    You cannot remove the hopper from the V4 without closing the hopper. You cannot place the hopper if it is not closed. You cannot dump charges if the hopper is closed. You cannot open the rear window if the hopper is still in place. So, yeah, bullshit. Maybe you are thinking about the Chargemaster or the Lyman.
     
    #43
    JerkyFreak said:
    You cannot remove the hopper from the V4 without closing the hopper. You cannot place the hopper if it is not closed. You cannot dump charges if the hopper is closed. You cannot open the rear window if the hopper is still in place. So, yeah, bullshit. Maybe you are thinking about the Chargemaster or the Lyman.
    Click to expand...
    My response was regarding the last few previous comments on emptying the AT V4. In my case to prevent spilling, I take the hopper off and then rotate the bottom to dump it directly back into the jug. I then empty the little back portion of the AT V4 into the hopper after rotating it closed and repeat. Doesn't take long and makes it essentially impossible to spill.

    One time in the past after loading 400 rounds for some matches, I forgot to turn the hopper back to the closed position when using it to catch the little back windowed reservoir of powder. Obviously the powder just drained out the bottom of the open hopper onto my table.

    Thanks for feeling the need to fact check essentially a joke post.
     
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    #44
    secondofangle2 said:
    Also, the ATV2.5 is fine for small charges under 50 grains or so. But I load 375CT and 50 BMG - it has to do 2-3 throws for 135 and 236 grain charges, and with the lumber logs, it gets all bound up and I have to waste a bunch of charges that are 20+ grains under. Too long to trickle up, so I have to dump them.

    I have come to agree with the ATV3 + IPT guys - that's currently the best setup if you can cobble it together...
    Click to expand...

    It's a bummer it's gone the way it has. The V3 with IP is pretty well the best so far. When the IP dropper is finished you will love the new system. As stated by others, H4350 drops in roughly 6 to 7 seconds. You can set the dropper close to the final weight unlike the ATv3. The cup, pan, and enclosure are all steps forward from everything else on the market too.
     
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    #45
    Cascade Hemi said:
    It's a bummer it's gone the way it has. The V3 with IP is pretty well the best so far. When the IP dropper is finished you will love the new system. As stated by others, H4350 drops in roughly 6 to 7 seconds. You can set the dropper close to the final weight unlike the ATv3. The cup, pan, and enclosure are all steps forward from everything else on the market too.
    Click to expand...
    It's been over 2 years it depends if it ever gets released.........
     
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    #48
    ^this was the mistake I made for the first 15 years I dabbled in ELR shooting - I fussed and fussed at the 100 yard bench trying to get 3/8 MOA with tactical rigs intended for ELR trying to get them to benchrest, all the while largely (sometimes completely) ignoring SD variation. I started breaking that habit with the labgaydar, and really got out of my funk when the garmin came out and I stopped the 100 yard bench nonsense and began routinely doing my testing in the field at 1000+. SD is more important than 1/4 MOA way out there. Not to mention wind and some other things. Like laser beam dispersion, other errors in inputs, etc.

    It's a fascinating and enthralling pursuit, ELR. And it is not what it appears on the surface.
     
    #49
    Vivacious Stallion said:
    My response was regarding the last few previous comments on emptying the AT V4. In my case to prevent spilling, I take the hopper off and then rotate the bottom to dump it directly back into the jug. I then empty the little back portion of the AT V4 into the hopper after rotating it closed and repeat. Doesn't take long and makes it essentially impossible to spill.

    One time in the past after loading 400 rounds for some matches, I forgot to turn the hopper back to the closed position when using it to catch the little back windowed reservoir of powder. Obviously the powder just drained out the bottom of the open hopper onto my table.

    Thanks for feeling the need to fact check essentially a joke post.
    Click to expand...
    All joles aside, you need a better process.

    Of the 3 auto throwers I have used, the V4 is the easiest to empty without spilling. The Lyman DPS II had this little slider behind the folding spout at the back, that if not closed, you see your hopper slowly draining untill you check. And because it is in the back, you don't immediately think about it. The Chargemaster with its liltle turning valve on the side is also easily not closed at 2AM. Until the next time you pour powder... Both of those you either have to unscrew the tube or physically pick up the whole unit and shake the powder out the tube. And you have to turn and move the unit so that the spout is at the edge of the table. Not things I want to do with an expensive and sensitive scale.

    At least with the V4 the unit is seperate from the balance and not that fragile. You can shake it to your hearts content.

    The only spills I have had with the V4 is when I zeroed the scale without the cup on the platten and input the charge weight on the app. Because you do that on the phone, I did not immediately see that the cup is missing. The big tube pours fast!🤣 Takes about half an hour to clean the whole scale...
     
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    #50
    JerkyFreak said:
    All joles aside, you need a better process.

    Of the 3 auto throwers I have used, the V4 is the easiest to empty without spilling. The Lyman DPS II had this little slider behind the folding spout at the back, that if not closed, you see your hopper slowly draining untill you check. And because it is in the back, you don't immediately think about it. The Chargemaster with its liltle turning valve on the side is also easily not closed at 2AM. Until the next time you pour powder... Both of those you either have to unscrew the tube or physically pick up the whole unit and shake the powder out the tube. And you have to turn and move the unit so that the spout is at the edge of the table. Not things I want to do with an expensive and sensitive scale.

    At least with the V4 the unit is seperate from the balance and not that fragile. You can shake it to your hearts content.

    The only spills I have had with the V4 is when I zeroed the scale without the cup on the platten and input the charge weight on the app. Because you do that on the phone, I did not immediately see that the cup is missing. The big tube pours fast!🤣 Takes about half an hour to clean the whole scale...
    Click to expand...
    Damn, sounds like you need a better process. Good luck with that.
     
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