Pacific Tool & Gauge drama unfolding

milprileb · Jul 20, 2021

THis may all sort out but I'll just post what happened on my current build.

a. Got a terrific deal on a Remington 700 barreled action. Asked specifically and was told it was a complete barreled action with complete bolt and trigger.

b. 2 Month wait and considering the times, okay nothing to fall over board about. However
what arrived at my FFL was a Remington 700 barreled receiver with nothing on it. A naked empty bolt was included which has no serial # to match Serial # on receiver. A spare parts bolt ...brand new and totally empty. No bolt stop or spring...no pins : receiver is totally devoid of anything on it and as said the bolt is an empty bolt body

c. Raised 19 July to PT&G, I am awaiting resolution. I am concerned this bolt is not head spaced to this barrel as I very much doubt Remington sells barreled actions with bolts not head spaced. If PT&G sends all the missing parts, I may be into a gunsmith bill to get the headspace sorted out.

d. Have been into builds before and did expect a few twists and turns but I was totally taken by surprise when I opened the box at my FFL dealer.

e. First time buying from PT&G. I want to believe they'll do right on all of this. I'll certainly post what happens pro or con as soon as possible. In the interim: Be relentless with questions to PT&G to make sure what you order is what ends up in your lap. I was very anal in doing so but here I am...naked and alone today. I could use some LOVE from PT&G !! Lol.

Pvt.Donut · Jul 20, 2021

Gunsmithing - Pacific Tool & Gauge SUCKS!!!

It has been my previous experience that companies put items on sale, because they have inventory to liquidate... Apparently, PT&G likes to put items "on sale" that they haven't made yet. 2 months and counting waiting for Howa bottom metal... PT&G can choke on a bag of dicks...that is all.

www.snipershide.com

Killswitch Engage · Jul 20, 2021

poor guy got PT&G'd

spife7980 · Jul 20, 2021

Try to have your card reverse the charges, Thats the only way youll get any reaction out of PTG.

Fig · Jul 20, 2021

Supersubes · Jul 20, 2021

PT&G’d indeed!

Steel head · Jul 20, 2021

Supersubes said:
PT&G’d indeed!

New official SH term denoting getting hosed?

LuvDog · Jul 20, 2021

Take it as a learning lesson. I saw the initial posts about those 700s that they were getting.

The price was good if it were a complete barreled action with bolt and trigger assembly, but not nearly great enough to take the gamble with them.

It was more and more obvious, most people were going to get a short chambered barreled receiver. And that wasn't worth the $400 in my opinion.

Call them, and try to get somewhere... then file a dispute with your CC since what you got isn't what you thought you ordered.

milprileb · Jul 20, 2021

I was feeling half hopeful but reading posts that followed : starting to get the notion I am on an iceberg in the middle of the Mississippi River, adrift and melting.

Fig · Jul 20, 2021

Biggie1976 · Jul 20, 2021

At one time they were a good company

Baron23 · Jul 20, 2021

Biggie1976 said:
At one time they were a good company

haha...at one time gasoline was 2 9 cents/gallon!

The PTG horror stories just keep on coming.

THEIS · Jul 20, 2021

Hi,

LOLOLOL

Let me know when you paid for reamer, gages and loading dies in first week of April (Confirmed payment received via Owners wife email) and yet customer service says my order was placed July 2...conveniently that was exact day I emailed asking status of my order, hahahaha

Sincerely,
Theis

just browsing · Jul 20, 2021

LOL they are an absolute dumpster fire. How or why anyone continues to give them any business is beyond me.

Sorry to hear, OP. Credit dispute is the easiest form of recourse.

supercorndogs · Jul 20, 2021

PTG Customer service.

RTH1800 · Jul 20, 2021

Optics Planet buy them out?

supercorndogs · Jul 20, 2021

E. Bryant · Jul 20, 2021

Gunsmithing - Pacific Tool & Gauge SUCKS!!!

In November I ordered a reamer and gauges for 505 Gibbs was told 3-4 weeks out. Later that same day I found a reamer to rent. Called PTG to cancel order they are like oh that will be a 15% restocking fee. Really? For a standard round that you haven’t even started yet because I called in order...

www.snipershide.com

Thud said:
Don't you think you have beat this issue to Death.
Some of you need to find a different Rant.

Yeah, come on, guys - haven't we beat this to Death? Some of you need to find a different Rant.

Downtown · Jul 20, 2021

OP, I'm curious. Had you ever read any other posts concerning PT&G business practices and customer service on this or any other forum before you ordered? Just wonder if you really didn't know or just thought to take a chance.

ShtrRdy · Jul 20, 2021

Welcome to PT&G. I hope it gets resolved at some point.

JMcQ · Jul 20, 2021

I haven’t been PT&Ged but I can relate to Optics Planet.

BigPrince · Jul 20, 2021

I keep seeing the title of this thread and thinking - finally something big happening and PT&G will finally have to sleep in the bed they made... then see it's just another victim.... don't mean to downplay your plight but it's a story on repeat with them. My personal guess is they do nothing, or if they do anything it won't be what you want and you're better off at this point doing a chargeback and doing what you want with what you got.

milprileb · Jul 21, 2021

Well guys, your beatings and floggings are well aimed & well deserved. : I walked into a kill zone and got zapped by PT&G. Now truth be told, I never got on their web site, I was calling every source of a 700 Remington action on Google and happened upon PT&G. My question was if my order was a complete barreled action and got affirmative. Had I been educated like most here, I'd have read their web site and got the real picture. Their definition of a complete barrel action is articulated on their web page. That is a fact.

So that is how I painted myself into this corner. I have two rather condescending emails back from them telling me no returns and no refunds, its all in plain English on their web page. They were mindful to tell me I was lucky as some of the barreled actions did not come with a bolt and mine did.

My third call to them explained I never was on their web page, bought what they said over phone was a complete bbl action and I'd like to talk to management before I have my CC company stop payment.

Got a email back, they'll refund and its my decision to send bbl action back or keep it. My goodness, they went from PT&G is right & customer is an idiot and did a flip flop to the customer has an issue and PT&G will offer a fair solution.

Many above recommended the CC stop payment course of action to get PT&G attention and I can validate this does turn things around darn fast.

I want to thank everyone for the floggings, well deserved. I'll come out of this okay now. Its obvious after this, I best do my homework on Snipers Hide before I open my wallet.

BuildingConceptsllc · Jul 21, 2021

spife7980 said:
Try to have your card reverse the charges, Thats the only way youll get any reaction out of PTG.

Only possible good outcome. No one should ever deal with ptg

Im2bent · Jul 21, 2021

I would wait till you actually get your refund before doing your happy dance.....

Supersubes · Jul 21, 2021

Im2bent said:
I would wait till you actually get your refund before doing your happy dance.....

They’ll probably charge him a 100% restocking fee.

Clark · Jul 21, 2021

I have had dozens of dealings with PT&G and never a problem.

Rem7000 6.5-06 Kiwi Bart 2B 20190909_215753.jpg

I have built (4) rem 700s with their bolts.

Meanwhile I know guys who build more rifles have had problems.
My brother just called with a PG&G problem, the 44-40 pilot is too big for his barrel.

hausser · Jul 22, 2021

I purchased a reamer for my 338 RUM build from PTG. It shattered and close inspection showed material defects. After sending it back, PTG acknowledged this and stated I'd get a refund. After numerous follow up calls to them, and many promises by them, I finally was reimbursed ... 17 months later!! Never again!!

MikeRTacOps · Jul 22, 2021

I'll jump in here for shits and giggles anything I've ever bought from PTG have been less than substandard. I literally threw their products in the trash and took the loss. I’d fall on my own sword first before I’d buy their shittttt again...

But what would I know

Mike R.

LRI · Jul 22, 2021

milprileb said:
THis may all sort out but I'll just post what happened on my current build.

a. Got a terrific deal on a Remington 700 barreled action. Asked specifically and was told it was a complete barreled action with complete bolt and trigger.

b. 2 Month wait and considering the times, okay nothing to fall over board about. However
what arrived at my FFL was a Remington 700 barreled receiver with nothing on it. A naked empty bolt was included which has no serial # to match Serial # on receiver. A spare parts bolt ...brand new and totally empty. No bolt stop or spring...no pins : receiver is totally devoid of anything on it and as said the bolt is an empty bolt body

c. Raised 19 July to PT&G, I am awaiting resolution. I am concerned this bolt is not head spaced to this barrel as I very much doubt Remington sells barreled actions with bolts not head spaced. If PT&G sends all the missing parts, I may be into a gunsmith bill to get the headspace sorted out.

d. Have been into builds before and did expect a few twists and turns but I was totally taken by surprise when I opened the box at my FFL dealer.

e. First time buying from PT&G. I want to believe they'll do right on all of this. I'll certainly post what happens pro or con as soon as possible. In the interim: Be relentless with questions to PT&G to make sure what you order is what ends up in your lap. I was very anal in doing so but here I am...naked and alone today. I could use some LOVE from PT&G !! Lol.

I'll share what I know to be factual:

Sometime recently, the new owners of the Remington Arms Company negotiated a sale to Pacific Tool and Gauge for the entire Remington Model 700 inventory. As told to me it's literally every single thing to do with the product line.

Prior to the bankruptcy, my company (LRI) did all of the "heavy lifting" receiver and bolt work for the Remington Custom Shop. (RCS) They were located 200 yards down the street from us. That work stopped on/about June of 2020. The facility was gutted and padlocked shortly thereafter. In Dec/Jan of 2019/2020, a mass liquidation of inventory took place at the RCS where staff and LRI consumed virtually all of the M700 and M7 inventory. I'm still sitting on a metric shit ton of Model 7's that we'll eventually have a sale on.

I bring this up for a couple of reasons. First is during the 2-1/2 years that we did this work for the RCS we ran approximately 650-675 M700's through our process. Every single one of those actions was slated for a build that was either on the books or pending for the RCS. There were never any "batch runs" where we ran hundreds and they had an inventory to pull from.

The only time the RCS has ever enjoyed the ability to interchange bolts with different actions was after LRI began tuning up their receivers via our "Tier 1" Blueprint process. Prior to they always had to be fitted case by case. It's not that we're superheroes. I simply rolled the dice and spent a whole lot more money than anyone else was/is willing to do to develop a process that had never been previously attempted. (100% electronic probe managed, 5axis CNC receiver and bolt blueprinting)

My purpose for sharing this:

It has come to my attention that "someone" in either the shooting community or the industry is spreading a rumor that PTG is sitting on some sort of massive collection of M700 products that were processed by LRI. That is false. We have also received an alarming number of phone calls from folks who have somehow reached the conclusion that LRI is on the hook for parts availability, historical documentation, and M700 related warranty issues.

I am here to tell you that is simply not the case. If you as a consumer elect to buy something from Remington or Pacific Tool and Gauge, your business is with them. Not LRI.

Hope this settles any confusion.

To the OP: I hope you find a resolution to your dilemma. Best of luck.

C.
LRI

Last: If you do have a model 700 and have an interest in getting it running better, I invite you to explore our process.

Baron23 · Jul 22, 2021

milprileb said:
Many above recommended the CC stop payment course of action to get PT&G attention and I can validate this does turn things around darn fast.

That's because their merchant bank will give them endless shit for charge backs and raise their fees/costs. All simply self-interest on the part of PTG, IMO.

whitetailnut · Jul 22, 2021

Here's one that was ordered 5/22. I'm not disappointed.

ETA- the add I read back on 5/20ish stated that they where short chambered and may or may not come with bolt , triggers ,etc, etc. I called as well on 5/22 and they told me they wouldn't know what came with each action until they got the actions in.

Im2bent · Jul 22, 2021

whitetailnut said:
Here's one that was ordered 5/22. I'm not disappointed.

ETA- the add I read back on 5/20ish stated that they where short chambered and may or may not come with bolt , triggers ,etc, etc. I called as well on 5/22 and they told me they wouldn't know what came with each action until they got the actions in.

So basically a crap shoot.....thats a great business model. " Gee yeah we don't know what we are selling.....do you still want it....?"

whitetailnut · Jul 22, 2021

Im2bent said:
So basically a crap shoot.....thats a great business model. " Gee yeah we don't know what we are selling.....do you still want it....?"

Not going disagree with you on that, I'm just saying it was stated in the ad and was told pretty much the same thing I read when I called.

SmartDonkey · Jul 22, 2021

So taking this a little farther: Is it mostly the customer service or is it also the end products? The reason I ask is because I was about to order a pre-fit barrel- (not from Pacific) and wanted to make sure it would work with the desired bullet. When asking about how it was throated the company sent me the specs of the reamer and it is a Pacific Tool. Better to stay away from it? or due to the fact I wont be dealing with them directly should I be good to go?

Also... how the hell do you tell how long the throat is by a reamer spec sheet??

spife7980 · Jul 22, 2021

SmartDonkey said:
So taking this a little farther: Is it mostly the customer service or is it also the end products? The reason I ask is because I was about to order a pre-fit barrel- (not from Pacific) and wanted to make sure it would work with the desired bullet. When asking about how it was throated the company sent me the specs of the reamer and it is a Pacific Tool. Better to stay away from it? or due to the fact I wont be dealing with them directly should I be good to go?

Also... how the hell do you tell how long the throat is by a reamer spec sheet??

If you need customer service most likely youre going to be in the shit. They charge a restocking fee for cancelations on stuff that hasnt even been made yet and thus is impossible to restock.
Its not that they cant put out a good product. Its just that if they dont (which is often enough that their reputation is the shit that it is) then youre basically screwed out of your money.

My one interaction with them on a blueprinted rem action with a fancy bolt etc for really cheap was just fine. But Ive read enough on here to know I shouldnt risk it again when there are better options.

As far as the throat length, Im guessing youre wanting to actually know the freebore. Thats the space from where the end of the chamber neck tapers in just past the brass ends and to where the lands begin. This diagram here is the common interpretation.

Notice that the print labeling PTG uses doesnt match what most people understand to be the parts of a throat. What they call a leade everyone else calls freebore. That they call a throat is what everyone else calls the leade. Probably why they fuck up so much...

SmartDonkey · Jul 23, 2021

Thanks spife. That's what I was thinking it should be and it makes sense on your example. On the spec sheet they sent me the lead box and throat box both have the exact same measurement in them (2.1960) even though they go to different points just like up above and in the box next to what you circled it says "0". So everything was entered wrong on the sheet....

spife7980 · Jul 23, 2021

SmartDonkey said:
Thanks spife. That's what I was thinking it should be and it makes sense on your example. On the spec sheet they sent me the lead box and throat box both have the exact same measurement in them (2.1960) even though they go to different points just like up above and in the box next to what you circled it says "0". So everything was entered wrong on the sheet....

Sounds like a zero free bore reamer. What chambering?

Some saami specs for 243 win, 270 win etc dont have any freebore but start a bit wide and just taper in to the bore diameter instead of having the freebore.

So it really depends on what it is.

Mike Casselton · Jul 23, 2021

Im2bent said:
So basically a crap shoot.....thats a great business model. " Gee yeah we don't know what we are selling.....do you still want it....?"

Reminds me of back when, where it was said "We have to pass the bill to see what's in it."

I looked at them on line and took a hard pass.

308pirate · Jul 23, 2021

MikeRTacOps said:
anything I've ever bought from PTG have been less than substandard.

LOL that says it all

E. Bryant · Jul 24, 2021

Clark said:
I have had dozens of dealings with PT&G and never a problem.View attachment 7672307
I have built (4) rem 700s with their bolts.

Meanwhile I know guys who build more rifles have had problems.
My brother just called with a PG&G problem, the 44-40 pilot is too big for his barrel.

So how long ago were those dealings? I've got a bunch of PT&G stuff that dates back 10, 15, almost 20 years that is fine, but that was then and this is now.

Marksman · Jul 24, 2021

LongRifles Inc. said:
Last: If you do have a model 700 and have an interest in getting it running better, I invite you to explore our process.

Any chance of putting together a group buy to finish ream and true the action for those who went through with the group buy?

I canceled my order, but if they try to deduct a restock fee I might change my mind and keep them.

MikeRTacOps · Jul 24, 2021

E. Bryant said:
So how long ago were those dealings? I've got a bunch of PT&G stuff that dates back 10, 15, almost 20 years that is fine, but that was then and this is now.

I bought some items over those time frames up until about two years ago.
I took their number out of my contacts.

Like I stated Substandard at best from what I've delt with maybe others got lucky ? Or maybe I'm too OCD with my STUFF

Mike R.

TX_Sooner nee CO_Sooner · Jul 24, 2021

Baron23 said:
haha...at one time gasoline was 2 9 cents/gallon!

The PTG horror stories just keep on coming.

At more than one time gas was well below 29 cents. More 13-15. Oops showing my age. Oh, well I’ve already forgotten what this thread was about.

LRI · Jul 26, 2021

Marksman said:
Any chance of putting together a group buy to finish ream and true the action for those who went through with the group buy?

I canceled my order, but if they try to deduct a restock fee I might change my mind and keep them.

We've had a Group Buy special since 2015 when we first introduced cnc receiver blueprinting. Happy to help.

LRI GB LINK

1shot2kill · Jul 28, 2021

PT&G was very clear with me when I ordered a few of these that I would receive anywhere between a complete gun or a bare receiver and it could be anything in between.

Sftdyna · Jun 8, 2022

The worst company I ever dealt with! Purchased in stock bottom metal back in March 2022 and it's been one lie after the other and finally today they claim could be end of July!! Canceled that order because last call I was told they were getting coated and I would have them in two weeks, steeling from Peter to ship to Paul is no way to stay in business.

redneckbmxer24 · Jun 8, 2022

PT&G has been fucking people for well over a decade now. If people order from them at this point and get the run around I don’t feel bad for you homie. Should have done research and not dealt with them.

Vodoun daVinci · Jun 8, 2022

Sorry, PT&G now is not all that. I bought a .32 ACP Die Set from them back in last Panic (like 2010) and it worked but it was just...pathetic. The mouth resizing die (no matter how adjusted) flared the case to Death and the seating die seemed to be unable to accommodate the simplest of bullet profiles. Plus, because it was the only thing available, I paid out the ass for it.

2017 I bought a taper crimp .32 ACP set from RCBS and tossed the PT&G set in the trash. Served it's purpose with much fiddling and fucking-about. Done and never again.

VooDoo

Sftdyna · Jun 8, 2022

Brothers, I had no idea! After I canceled my order I started looking at there reviews and can't believe there level of fraud in some cases hasn't gone punished!!

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