1000 Yard Setup

[Swift]

If I'm understanding what you're asking, then yes, that is normal. The bolt is unsupported in the rearward position, and lots of bolt action rifles have bolt play when the bolt is moved to the rearward position. The Tikkas are built on one action length (I believe), so the bolt throw is a bit longer in a .308 than it is in some other .308's. Perhaps you notice the "wiggle" more in that regard?





I somewhat agree with your sentiment in suggesting that too many shooters fail to invest properly in their optics (again, my optic cost FAR more than my rifle). But, I wouldn't downplay *some* of the cheaper scopes for a new precision shooter on a tight budget. My Weaver was a good scope for a few years, and I got a lot of mileage out of it. My buddy started with the Bushnell you mentioned, and he was happy with that scope as a starting place, too (they're very similar scopes except for the adjustable power on the Weaver).

Obviously neither of those choices (or any other $300 scope) is going to compare to a S&B, a Hensoldt, a Premier, a Steiner, a Nightforce, etc., but that doesn't mean that the OP can't buy one, gain skills, and have fun with decent results when starting out. The shooter always seems to be the weak point in the beginning anyway.

As far as the magnification, I definitely wouldn't call 10x ideal, but it is certainly usable at that distance (particularly for a guy on a tight budget who just wants to get started). Plenty of real-world sniper kills have been made at that distance (and beyond) using a 10x scope. Even a 12x S&B is still in primary use for that purpose today. Now, granted, the battlefield is a TOTALLY different environment, but I'm just pointing out that lower magnification scopes ARE often used at long distance. The range where I shoot usually shoot has really heavy mirage. We were shooting some p-dogs out there recently and I had to dial my S&B below 10x to really get clear shots at 600-750 yards.

Besides, "I want to shoot 1,000 yards" is the classic statement from every new precision shooter, and while there's nothing wrong with that desire, I think many new precision shooters often find themselves shooting at shorter distances for one reason or another. Even I find that I'm most often shooting to 600-700 yards, simply because that's the distance that is more readily available to me where I shoot the most. The OP may have a different situation, but that's also a factor worth considering.

I have nothing against budget optics, everyone has a different situation. But you have to choose wisely. Companies like Bushnell, Weaver and SWFA offer good quality for the dollar, while Millett, Barska and others are risky and often more trouble than they're worth.

In OP's budget, he's mainly looking at Savage and Remington. Both have remained relatively unchanged for quite some time so why buy a brand-spankin-new 700 when a well used example offers the same action and features at a deep discount? That's my rationale here; it clears up more money to be spent elsewhere on the system at the expense of a couple nicks and scratches.

OP, there are plenty of folks on here who made the mistake of overspending on the rifle and underspending on the scope, myself included. It can be very frustrating and it shakes your confidence. I'm encouraging you to learn from our mistakes and in time you will understand and appreciate the importance of a reliable and accurate optic. ColoradoCop is right, the 1,000 yard shot is so glorified that guys just wanna jump right in. I'm not sure if you've actually looked at a target 10 football fields away, be it with the naked eye or through a scope, but it's a long way out there. Don't get jaded by movies and television, it's an extremely difficult shot. Invest in the right places and you will increase your chances of success.

 

[Coloradocop]

I have nothing against budget optics, everyone has a different situation. But you have to choose wisely. Companies like Bushnell, Weaver and SWFA offer good quality for the dollar, while Millett, Barska and others are risky and often more trouble than they're worth.

In OP's budget, he's mainly looking at Savage and Remington. Both have remained relatively unchanged for quite some time so why buy a brand-spankin-new 700 when a well used example offers the same action and features at a deep discount? That's my rationale here; it clears up more money to be spent elsewhere on the system at the expense of a couple nicks and scratches.

OP, there are plenty of folks on here who made the mistake of overspending on the rifle and underspending on the scope, myself included. It can be very frustrating and it shakes your confidence. I'm encouraging you to learn from our mistakes and in time you will understand and appreciate the importance of a reliable and accurate optic. ColoradoCop is right, the 1,000 yard shot is so glorified that guys just wanna jump right in. I'm not sure if you've actually looked at a target 10 football fields away, be it with the naked eye or through a scope, but it's a long way out there. Don't get jaded by movies and television, it's an extremely difficult shot. Invest in the right places and you will increase your chances of success.

Agreed. And the sad truth is that there are probably more crappy cheap optics than there are great ones. I know I chased that problem with a scope that I had on a .22lr for years. It came with the rifle, and I got the setup when I was much younger. The scope was absolutely worthless, and I was far better off shooting with open sights on that rifle (which is what I did right up until the time I got my S&B, at which time I threw the Weaver on the .22).

I will say that I've been partial to new rifles in precision setups personally (I have plenty of used rifles otherwise), if only because I was concerned about the treatment the rifle might have received prior to my purchase (still, I think a lot of that can probably be spotted just by peaking down the bore). Nevertheless, I know a lot of guys have picked up great rifles used, and they can always be rebarreled if need be. Even some of the "budget priced" new Remington or Savage rifles can give you decent performance. My buddy shoots a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC (long f-ing name), and I want to say that he only paid around $600 for that rifle (maybe he'll chime in here in a bit and give a more thorough review of his rifle). Anyway, for $600 he has a rifle that he regularly shoots at the same distances that I shoot. And, he has a $1800 optic in a $400 mount on top of that rifle.

 

[Sharpsman]

Rethink a bit...and come back at a later date!

 

[proneshooter]

I've been holding back because I don't want to be seen as a dick, but here it goes anyway.

The original post and many of the OP's subsequent questions and replies reek of immaturity. By his own admission he's been concentrating on clay shooting because presumably he's pretty good and has some sporting goals. Cool. I dig sporting clays too. He's dabbled in a little bit of "service rifle" but no matches yet. I have no idea if he has actually been to a square range, slung up with a for real National Match AR15 and taken some coaching or he's just sent lead down range with an AR and call that service rifle. I don't know because he does not explain.

It appears, from all that he's posted here, that the bulk of his rifle marksmanship experience is plinking and deer hunting. Neither of which teach one much to do anything beyond 300 yards or so. But now he wants a rig to go to 1K. I wonder if he realizes just how difficult it is to jump from hunting deer and popping cans to shooting accurately at a target 3000 feet away.

I made the comment that he ought to concentrate on shooting service rifle (the actual competitive NRA discipline) to really hone in the basics of marksmanship out to 600 yards. Later on he can buy a scoped rifle and apply to it what he learned in highpower, and maybe enlist the help of the local F class guys to learn the tricks of shooting off a bipod.

I noticed that my suggestion evidently wasn't what he wanted to hear because his chatter continued on about scopes, calibers, etc etc etc.

Well, whatever. Go your own way kid. Blow a big wad on gear you have no idea how to use and hope you get some good coaching along the way.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Yes, but I’d go with the 12x
SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical Riflescope
on a fixed scope so I could hunt with it and a 10x
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope
if I was going to use it often for hunting.

500-600,
Ultimately I want this one
SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope
and I think that would be ideal for you if your wanting to get into tactical/sniper type matches and double as a great hunting optic.

This is the one I have several of but I am not sure when/if they will get more
Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm Side Focus

It says discontinued but I think they put that there because they were having a hard time predicting when they would get more…

Is there any sort of magnification power limit or minimum?

 

[Niles Coyote]

It just depends on what you’re doing.

I am mostly a recreational steel plate shooter, deer and coyote hunter. I started with a 2.5-10x42 nikon tactical and used that for a little over a year shooting at steel plates from 12 to 36 inches in size out to 1000 and the scope never held me back.

Since then I have used scopes with 8 and 9 power on the top magnification and still made successful hits. But my personal preference is a top end around 15-20 power… but I still have that 2.5-10x on one of my 308’s and still use it.

If you get into tactical/sniper style matches you’re going to see a lot of scopes being used with top ends from 15-25, F-class shooters seems to like even more and benchrest competitions more still… For a guy starting out on a limited budget that going to knock targets around in the back yard out to 1000y and also wants it to be a dual purpose (hunting/target) rifle there is nothing wrong with a scope with 10x on the top end.

One word of advice on magnification, the higher the power the high the price is to be able to use it… There are a lot of crummy/cheap scopes out there that have 24-36 power on the top end but the image is terrible and also dim, and I won’t even talk about tracking… I’ve had a few of them over the years before I got into long range shooting and quality optics, during this period in my life I never spent more than 200 on a scope. Get a good scope, the SWFA’s and Vortex Viper hold their value well and you can always upgrade later if find yourself wanting more power/top tier glass.

 

[RobertB]

It really doesn't take much to get into 1000 yd shooting. What type, how accurate, and how easy it is are the things you will pay for.

You can get a remingtonl or a savage factory rifle with decent scope and you can ring steel @1k with the right ammo.

I got a sps tactical in hs precision stock with ss 5-20 that shoots pretty good at1k.

Doesn't mean I choose it over my surgeon260 or my gap 6.5cm or my 6.5x284 bench rest for 1000 yd shooting but I can do it.

 

[Tango down]

Is there any sort of magnification power limit or minimum?

Like this? What would you recommend for $500-600?

SWFA SS 16x42 Tactical Riflescope

You have plenty of info from different members; now comes the time for you to review these info and to make a choice, or wait until you become even more familiar on the subject. Plenty of options; rifles, scopes, calibers and ammo have never been as good as now.
Good luck and good shooting.
Ombre noire

 

[Breathial]

Here ya' go...

For the 1000 yard set-up, this is what I have, and recommend:

10 BA

Series: Law Enforcement
AccuTrigger: Yes
AccuStock: Yes
Magazine: Detachable box
Stock material: Aluminum
Barrel material: Carbon Steel
Stock finish: Matte
Barrel finish: Matte

0 MOA scope rail, #6-48 screws
308 WIN
Sku:19125
Caliber: 308 WIN
Handed:Right
Rate of Twist:10
Weight:13.4 lbs
Overall Length: 45.5"
Barrel Length: 24"
Ammo Capacity: 10
MSRP: $2285.00

When I bought my 1911 pistol, a Kimber SS, it was far superior to anything else I'd ever shot. It was capable of much better accuracy than I was... and it *made* me a better shooter. I used the same logic buying this rifle [fitted mine with a 16x42 SuperSniper scope]. I know what the weapon is capable of... and it forces me to do *my* part better and better.

Regards,

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Overall that rifle would be idea but a $2000+ rifle is not going to fit the budget I have in mind. I am hearing that a Savage in general is a good idea, and that my optics should be equal or greater in price to the rifle. Also I have heard a rifle is only as good as the optic. So a Wal-Mart scope on a $3000 rifle won't be anymore capable than a .22 rimfire.

Thanks for all the information so far and I hope to keep seeing all of your opinions.

 

[Garvey]

Watch the Optics for sale section and pick up an SWFA SS, or a Vortex. Today's rifles are capable of stupid accuracy off the shelf. Savage has one of the best reputations for it. Every one I have ever owned and/ or shot has been a sub MOA rifle out of the box. Remington of course, produces quality rifles as well. In other words, you're better off with a $500 rifle and $1000 glass. The optic is where you gain the capability to engage targets at long range.

 

[garandman]

I would like the rifle alone to cost less than $1000. I am a TEENAGER so the price is a factor. Strictly .308 or .300 Win Mag. Must double as a deer gun if possible.

In my estimation, that's not possible - you can get a great deer rifle for under $1K , but not even a decent 1K yard gun. Good 1K yard guns don't make good deer rifles - too bulky, heavy, long. A 1K yard gun will need at least $1K glass (not counting the gun) I'd suggest choosing one or the other.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Speaking of optics. I can see what several have posted for glass but no one has mentioned mounts. Is there a certain brand or series to look for?

This is separate from the 1000 yard rifle but today my riser on my AR-15 failed me. I used a Center Point 4-16x42 scope from Wal-mart (I intend to upgrade soon) on a NcStar QD riser (it was the cheapest one in stock at the time) the riser was not holding tightly to the receiver and my groups were above 3 inches at 100 yards. I was looking at this

Burris AR-P.E.P.R. 1-Piece Extended Scope Mount Picatinny-Style

I was wondering if the since this is a higher quality than NcStar if the QD model would be better or if I should save my money and get a permanent model right away.

 

[Garvey]

Badger Ordinance and Talley Tactical have proven to be strong, well machined, and reliable. Badger Ordiance, and EGW have produced good results with their bases for me. You will need a 20 MOA base to get all of the elevation travel out of you rifle scope.

Being a Texan I go to Quality optics and accessories from Leupold, Bushnell, Burris, Nikon and more! first, and usually last for anything optic related. They will live up to their price match claim, and their customer service has always been excellent.

 

[mwhite]

Overall that rifle would be idea but a $2000+ rifle is not going to fit the budget I have in mind. I am hearing that a Savage in general is a good idea, and that my optics should be equal or greater in price to the rifle. Also I have heard a rifle is only as good as the optic. So a Wal-Mart scope on a $3000 rifle won't be anymore capable than a .22 rimfire.

Thanks for all the information so far and I hope to keep seeing all of your opinions.

muhunter3982,, go with a rem 700 heavy barrel in 308, it shoots out to 1000yards and u can shoot it alot longer than those big short magum rounds,, ammo for it is easy to find and its a very popular round and good all around cartigride,and easy to reload to your spec,,,those big magum rounds are very expensive and and will burn out the throat of the barrell after about 800 rounds,,, Go with a 308.

 

[Garvey]

muhunter3982,, go with a rem 700 heavy barrel in 308, it shoots out to 1000yards and u can shoot it alot longer than those big short magum rounds,, ammo for it is easy to find and its a very popular round and good all around cartigride,and easy to reload to your spec,,,those big magum rounds are very expensive and and will burn out the throat of the barrell after about 800 rounds,,, Go with a 308.

And there are volumes of information of the trajectory of the 175 SMK. From memory I was 3.0 Mils at 500 yards, 9.5 to 10.5 Mils at 1k. It's easy to fill in the middle. Learn on a .308, if you don't handload (which you should) you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match 175 gr. and shoot to your heart's content without worrying about barrel life (heard of 10,000 rounds on one barrel). If the time comes that you want a wind cheater you can rebarrel the same rifle for 6.5 Creedmore (Hornady makes great ammo for it) or .260 Remington and load it yourself. When you start loading your own, there is plenty of information in the reloading section to guide you along. Most everyone runs H-Varget and a 175 Sierra Match King or a 178 Hornady A-max for .308 and for .260. 6.5 Creedmore H-4350 and a 130 Berger, 140 gr. Berger, or 140 gr. A-max.

Many members of this website started at the beginning, but most ended up with very similar rigs as they gained experience. If you ever shoot a tactical type match you will see the obvious similarities in everyone's rifle/ optic/ load system.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

And there are volumes of information of the trajectory of the 175 SMK. From memory I was 3.0 Mils at 500 yards, 9.5 to 10.5 Mils at 1k. It's easy to fill in the middle. Learn on a .308, if you don't handload (which you should) you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match 175 gr. and shoot to your heart's content without worrying about barrel life (heard of 10,000 rounds on one barrel). If the time comes that you want a wind cheater you can rebarrel the same rifle for 6.5 Creedmore (Hornady makes great ammo for it) or .260 Remington and load it yourself. When you start loading your own, there is plenty of information in the reloading section to guide you along. Most everyone runs H-Varget and a 175 Sierra Match King or a 178 Hornady A-max for .308 and for .260. 6.5 Creedmore H-4350 and a 130 Berger, 140 gr. Berger, or 140 gr. A-max.

Many members of this website started at the beginning, but most ended up with very similar rigs as they gained experience. If you ever shoot a tactical type match you will see the obvious similarities in everyone's rifle/ optic/ load system.

I do reload but only for .223 so far. I have 500+ rounds of .308 Remington Core-Locks just sitting here. I figured they are only good for plinking. So thats why I was leaning toward a .308..... Or should I use those rounds to offset the cost of getting a 6.5 Creedmore

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Any thoughts on AR-15 risers?

 

[Garvey]

If I were you I'd sell the Core Locks and use the funds for brass, primers, powder, and 178 gr A-maxes. The A-max was the best target bullet I ran through my. 308 and it will kill with authority. One bullet/ load for long range target shooting AND hunting. When you buy powder get at least 8 pounds at a time (I buy 16). Consistency is the key, and having all the same lot of powder is very important. Most 24" .308 barrels shoot somewhere between 43.5 gr and 45.0 gr of Varget, yielding +/- 2700 fps. I seat everything even with the lands, to start, and never really need to adjust seating depth.

AR scope mount? Larue Tactical makes some very good ones.

 

[6brshooter]

While no ADM or bobro, the standard pepr mount is solid and serviceable. Don't waste the money on quick detach unless u need it. Ie. swapping optics,nv, aimpoint, yada yada. If u have a decent ar lower, something like a 6 hagar or 6 ar turbo would be effective at range. Check out white oak precision or Robert Whitley. Granted that would be reload only proposition

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Is a 1:12 twist from a .308 enough to stabilize a 178 grain A-Max?

 

[wadebrown]

MNHunter,

It sounds like you are from Minnesota your profile does not say, but I will assume you live in MN. Gopher Rifle and Revolver Club runs a long range shooting league every thursday night during the Summer at our range in Harris MN. You might want to stop by and check out what others are shooting from the 1,000 yard line, that is if Harris is close to you.

Having a chance to see what others are shooting would be a good opportunity, and usually someone will offer shooters that show up without a gun, a chance to shoot their rig.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

MNHunter,

It sounds like you are from Minnesota your profile does not say, but I will assume you live in MN. Gopher Rifle and Revolver Club runs a long range shooting league every thursday night during the Summer at our range in Harris MN. You might want to stop by and check out what others are shooting from the 1,000 yard line, that is if Harris is close to you.

Having a chance to see what others are shooting would be a good opportunity, and usually someone will offer shooters that show up without a gun, a chance to shoot their rig.

I am from Redwood Falls. I would be about 3 hours away. Yes I would like to go there sometime to see what other people use. My coach for Service Rifle, trap, and .22 says he may do 1000 yard this fall and he uses 2 Remington 40-X one in .260 and one in .308.

Are the 40-X series custom shop only?

 

[Idaho CTD]

The 40X are Remington actions and Hart barrels. Buy a SPS Varmint in .243 or .308, put it in a better stock, add a good trigger (Jewell), and then pick up a good used Leupold 4.5x14 or 6.5x20 with target knobs. Worry about the magazine/clip and threaded barrel after you learn to shoot. A good trigger and a stock that fits well are more important. You can do that combo for 14-1500 depending on mounts and the deals you find buying parts plus selling the old trigger and stock. The .243 would be the best to keep recoil low plus has better trajectory and comparable energy at 1000yds. I have one I rechambered to .243AI and it shoots 5 under 1/2" with 105 Amax's @ 3250fps.

 

[proneshooter]

Go shoot some service rifle and learn how to shoot first. You are jumping all over the place with a million questions and no direction.

$.02

 

[Hairball]

What does your coach recommend that you should purchase for your first rifle?

 

[proneshooter]

The kid will learn a hell of a lot more with a used Anschutz prone rifle and playing in a smallbore prone league.

But that isn't nearly as kewl as playing sniper at 1000 yards.

 

[xdeano]

Yes the hornady 178 Amax will stabilize in a 12" twist. But for the long range game the 155's in a 308 is where it's at. look at the 155 lapua or 155 SMK.

Also the Burris AR-P.E.P.R. is just fine, there are a lot of gq's on this site, you don't need the best at every stage in your life. Some have silver spoons in their mouths.

xdeano

 

[MMH]

Well said....

I recently acquired a Rem 700 5R, dropped it in an AICS AX chassis and use AX detachable magazines. The stock it came with kept the mag box and hinged floor plate. Rifle shoots under 0.5" at 100 yards with several loads. I'll be trying to stretch its legs to 1,000 yards this season. BTW, it ain't the arrows, Tonto.

Cheers, and good luck,

FH

PS-You might take a look at Zak Smith's articles on getting started in LR shooting. Among other things, he notes that the Rem 700 PSS or 700 SPS-Varmint is a good start in .308. You can get to 1,000 yards with 175-190 gr Match bullets. You can also do well with a number of the 6.5mm and 7mm cartridges. Reading those articles (on a sticky in the Hide), you'll get a better perspective on equipment needs for ALL of the necessary equipment. Once you have a good "no excuses" set-up, the next step is training and then a lot of shooting. He also discusses budget.

Knowledge is your friend.

FH

 

[jipper74]

Mel at Sniper Central has taken some of the guess work out of what you are looking for. He also sells what you are looking for.
Sniper Central - Howa 1500 Entry Package

Check it out. The Howa package will get you a full entry system for just over $1100. Take the remaining $200 and pick a better scope. This rifle will be 1000 yards capable, but not as good as something from the 6, 6.5, 7mm classes. You can hunt with it for sure, but it won't be optimal for that. His bottom scopes meet his minimum requirements, you shouldn't go below those under any circumstance.

If you want the the same, but as a Rem 700 it will cost you a little bit more.
Sniper Central - Howa 1500 Entry Package

Doesn't have the bottom metal that you want. Really you have two choices relax on the features you want or pony up more money. Pick the first choice. Start basic, solid quality then mod rig later as paychecks dictate.

Good luck!

 

[Skyyr]

As far as optics for your build go, I'd take a look at the Weaver 3-15x50 Illuminated Tactical. It's illuminated, glass-etched reticle, waterproof - honestly the best scope under $1,000, in my opinion. The one I had was solid as a rock. $750 or so shipped at most places. It's made in Japan in the same factory that produces Nightforce scopes (it actually feels and looks like one).

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Mel at Sniper Central has taken some of the guess work out of what you are looking for. He also sells what you are looking for.
Sniper Central - Howa 1500 Entry Package

Check it out. The Howa package will get you a full entry system for just over $1100. Take the remaining $200 and pick a better scope. This rifle will be 1000 yards capable, but not as good as something from the 6, 6.5, 7mm classes. You can hunt with it for sure, but it won't be optimal for that. His bottom scopes meet his minimum requirements, you shouldn't go below those under any circumstance.

If you want the the same, but as a Rem 700 it will cost you a little bit more.
Sniper Central - Howa 1500 Entry Package

Doesn't have the bottom metal that you want. Really you have two choices relax on the features you want or pony up more money. Pick the first choice. Start basic, solid quality then mod rig later as paychecks dictate.

Good luck!

Does the R5 rifling make a big difference for $500? I have had no experience with the Howa's so right now I would go with a 700. What you you recommend, the Howa of the 700? Would the 700 SPS Varmint suffice?

Also... What are the rules? What are the classes? What are the optics requirements? What accessories are encouraged or frowned upon?

 

[jipper74]

Does the R5 rifling make a big difference for $500? I have had no experience with the Howa's so right now I would go with a 700. What you you recommend, the Howa of the 700? Would the 700 SPS Varmint suffice?

Also... What are the rules? What are the classes? What are the optics requirements? What accessories are encouraged or frowned upon?

Some people believe in 5R rifling, others including at least one high end barrel maker think it's bunk. *However*, the 5R barrel is a from Benchmark and will be better than a factory barrel. Personally, if I were in your shoes any extra money would go into better glass. I would also consider the adjustable Mk2 stock option ... a good value here.

This whole package is a good deal for someone starting out. It isn't magic here, but many professionals, many who have to buy their own rifles (read limited funds), have gone this route. Even little things like installing a base and mounting the scope is done for you. But of course this isn't a little thing if done correctly.

The last string of questions are about competition classes? Maybe some of the competition shooters can answer here.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Some people believe in 5R rifling, others including at least one high end barrel maker think it's bunk. *However*, the 5R barrel is a from Benchmark and will be better than a factory barrel. Personally, if I were in your shoes any extra money would go into better glass. I would also consider the adjustable Mk2 stock option ... a good value here.

This whole package is a good deal for someone starting out. It isn't magic here, but many professionals, many who have to buy their own rifles (read limited funds), have gone this route. Even little things like installing a base and mounting the scope is done for you. But of course this isn't a little thing if done correctly.

The last string of questions are about competition classes? Maybe some of the competition shooters can answer here.

How do you feel about Howa vs Remingtons?

 

[mwhite]

How do you feel about Howa vs Remingtons?

Get u a remington sps varmint rifle with a heavy barrell in 308 there good rifles,, shoot it a while,,, save your money a get a mcmillian stock and have the action and barrell bedded, replace the trigger, u will see a differents there,, With all that said, dont over look the savage rifles with heavy barrells in the same caliber,,,, right out the box they shoot very well. mod 12 and 10.

 

[ryanjay11]

Stop ignoring Proneshooter. He has made the most relevant comments in the thread.

You are obviously more concerned about hardware than actually learning to shoot.

 

[jipper74]

Stop ignoring Proneshooter. He has made the most relevant comments in the thread.

You are obviously more concerned about hardware than actually learning to shoot.

Well you are right. But I think most of the advice now is to mitigate the damage when the OP doesn't take Proneshooter's advice!

 

[proneshooter]

Boys, let him go. He's either a troll and playing most everyone here for a fool or a know-it-all teenager that can't take advice unless it's the advice that he wanted to hear.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Boys, let him go. He's either a troll and playing most everyone here for a fool or a know-it-all teenager that can't take advice unless it's the advice that he wanted to hear.

I am well aware that I "don't know it all"
I have a coach that works one on one with me but I was looking for opinions on equipment. I have a whole lifetime to learn the skill. Anyone who is just joining or starting to read the thread...... I am not going to defiantly shoot Match. I want the skill to shoot 1000 yards for fun and possibly shoot match when I have a respectable and capable rig when I have more time.

I don't understand what was meant by I was ignoring you? Everyone opinion is valid to me.

Right now I shoot for 4-H, FFA, and Service Rifle. Next year I plan to shoot 3-Gun, Cowboy Action Shooting, and USPCA. I hope to expand my horizon by going from shotguns and speed shooting to pistol and precision rifle.

Not to mention the closest 1000 yard range is 3 hours away.

 

[sentry1]

What's wrong with curiosity? Isn't the whole point of this site to share knowledge and experience? Of course the new guy has no direction, he has to learn first. Not everybody has the luck to show up on this site knowing what they already need to know.

OP, ask as many questions as you want. Absorb everything that gets thrown back at you, good or bad. Ignore the grumpy, irrelevant "Get off my porch, young'un!" responses.

Practice, read, and inquire, that's how I learned. Be that bright eyed boy full of wonder who chats up all the old timers at the range. Then when you do drop some dough on a fancy rig, you'll have made an educated purchase.

Go shoot some service rifle and learn how to shoot first. You are jumping all over the place with a million questions and no direction.

$.02

 

[EKIM1428]

My advice is to read everything you can and absorb as much info as you can while you save up more $$. Get a job or get a second job to move things along quicker if you have to. Get the right stuff the first time...You'll thank me later

Until then keep practicing with what you have until you can out shoot your current gun. Or buy that rem 700 in 308 and shoot the barrel out of it. Forget about 1000 yards for right now and slowly progress and master closer distances until your skill set is honed enough to reach way out there. This isn't an ego stroking contest and dont make this about impressing anyone but yourself.

I spent 2 years researching long range shooting and practiced the basics on the guns I had in the safe (hunting style bolt guns with irons or crap optics) before I started my LR build. Then i bought a precision .22lr with sub sonic match ammo and practiced with that out to 300 yards. Thats right, a grown ass man with a little .22 at the range every week. I could give a damn about bragging rights or impressing anyone. I was there to learn how to shoot, call wind, estimate range etc...Only then did I get a rem 700 and started outfitting it for long range. My scope costs more than the gun, my reloading supplies costs more, my ammo stash costs more...You can see where i'm going with this. The gun is one of the cheaper items in this whole mess.

The bottom line is don't get discouraged, but do your home work and find out what you're getting into so you know how to approach it both mentally and financially. just my .02

 

[garandman]

My advice is to read everything you can and absorb as much info as you can while you save up more $$. Get a job or get a second job to move things along quicker if you have to. Get the right stuff the first time...You'll thank me later

Until then keep practicing with what you have until you can out shoot your current gun. Or buy that rem 700 in 308 and shoot the barrel out of it. Forget about 1000 yards for right now and slowly progress and master closer distances until your skill set is honed enough to reach way out there. This isn't an ego stroking contest and dont make this about impressing anyone but yourself.

I spent 2 years researching long range shooting and practiced the basics on the guns I had in the safe (hunting style bolt guns with irons or crap optics) before I started my LR build. Then i bought a precision .22lr with sub sonic match ammo and practiced with that out to 300 yards. Thats right, a grown ass man with a little .22 at the range every week. I could give a damn about bragging rights or impressing anyone. I was there to learn how to shoot, call wind, estimate range etc...Only then did I get a rem 700 and started outfitting it for long range. My scope costs more than the gun, my reloading supplies costs more, my ammo stash costs more...You can see where i'm going with this. The gun is one of the cheaper items in this whole mess.

The bottom line is don't get discouraged, but do your home work and find out what you're getting into so you know how to approach it both mentally and financially. just my .02

In case the OP missed it, I'll quote / repost it. Solid wisdom, well said.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

My advice is to read everything you can and absorb as much info as you can while you save up more $$. Get a job or get a second job to move things along quicker if you have to. Get the right stuff the first time...You'll thank me later

Until then keep practicing with what you have until you can out shoot your current gun. Or buy that rem 700 in 308 and shoot the barrel out of it. Forget about 1000 yards for right now and slowly progress and master closer distances until your skill set is honed enough to reach way out there. This isn't an ego stroking contest and dont make this about impressing anyone but yourself.

I spent 2 years researching long range shooting and practiced the basics on the guns I had in the safe (hunting style bolt guns with irons or crap optics) before I started my LR build. Then i bought a precision .22lr with sub sonic match ammo and practiced with that out to 300 yards. Thats right, a grown ass man with a little .22 at the range every week. I could give a damn about bragging rights or impressing anyone. I was there to learn how to shoot, call wind, estimate range etc...Only then did I get a rem 700 and started outfitting it for long range. My scope costs more than the gun, my reloading supplies costs more, my ammo stash costs more...You can see where i'm going with this. The gun is one of the cheaper items in this whole mess.

The bottom line is don't get discouraged, but do your home work and find out what you're getting into so you know how to approach it both mentally and financially. just my .02

I don't own any centerfire except my AR-15. I have been using that because it is what I have. I have been doing decent at 100-300 yards but still have far to go. I had reduced accuracy because of my riser (not playing the "Blame Game") but that is the reason for some problems. Next on my list of upgrades is a new barrel (1:7) THEN finally better glass.


I shoot .22 target for 4-H with a single shot Marlin Model 2000 at 10 meters and I am consistent with that at that range. When I can, I borrow it from the club and use it at home up to 50 yards so far.

As everyone makes clear, I am not rushing my range. I have been using the rifle for 2 years and I am still working at 50 yards. I am not confident so I stay there. (I just use plinking ammunition)

If anyone has a link to in-stock Match .22LR ammo that would be appreciated.

 

[Randoman5]

I don't own any centerfire except my AR-15. I have been using that because it is what I have. I have been doing decent at 100-300 yards but still have far to go. I had reduced accuracy because of my riser (not playing the "Blame Game") but that is the reason for some problems. Next on my list of upgrades is a new barrel (1:7) THEN finally better glass.


I shoot .22 target for 4-H with a single shot Marlin Model 2000 at 10 meters and I am consistent with that at that range. When I can, I borrow it from the club and use it at home up to 50 yards so far.

As everyone makes clear, I am not rushing my range. I have been using the rifle for 2 years and I am still working at 50 yards. I am not confident so I stay there. (I just use plinking ammunition)

If anyone has a link to in-stock Match .22LR ammo that would be appreciated.

Why don't you see how far you can push your AR? Get a decent scope and decent mounting hardware and shoot it as far as you have available. You'll get a good idea if long range stuff is for you and if you can get decent accuracy at the edge of the AR's range you'll know you're a good shot. Plus the ammo will be quite a bit cheaper... at least as soon as the insanity ends.


On a side note and not to hijack. Somebody posted about the Savage Predator Max in 6.5 Creedmoor Savage's site lists this as a "medium" contour barrel which seems to finish at about .8 inches on a 24 inch barrel. Is this barrel too narrow to use the rifle in a match? Will heat be an issue?

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Why don't you see how far you can push your AR? Get a decent scope and decent mounting hardware and shoot it as far as you have available. You'll get a good idea if long range stuff is for you and if you can get decent accuracy at the edge of the AR's range you'll know you're a good shot. Plus the ammo will be quite a bit cheaper... at least as soon as the insanity ends.


On a side note and not to hijack. Somebody posted about the Savage Predator Max in 6.5 Creedmoor Savage's site lists this as a "medium" contour barrel which seems to finish at about .8 inches on a 24 inch barrel. Is this barrel too narrow to use the rifle in a match? Will heat be an issue?

If I remember right, the Savage 12 Long Range Precision was what was posted. Here is a link

Savage Arms

Looks to have a pretty bull barrel to me, haha.

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Has anyone tried to run a Browning? I was looking at this

X-Bolt Varmint Stalker, long range bolt-action rifle, Browning Firearms Product

No one has mentioned if they are good or to avoid them.

 

[mwhite]

What's wrong with curiosity? Isn't the whole point of this site to share knowledge and experience? Of course the new guy has no direction, he has to learn first. Not everybody has the luck to show up on this site knowing what they already need to know.

OP, ask as many questions as you want. Absorb everything that gets thrown back at you, good or bad. Ignore the grumpy, irrelevant "Get off my porch, young'un!" responses.

Practice, read, and inquire, that's how I learned. Be that bright eyed boy full of wonder who chats up all the old timers at the range. Then when you do drop some dough on a fancy rig, you'll have made an educated purchase.

Well said,

 

[lawofsavage]

In your situation I would go with a Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 CM with either the new SWFA 3-15 or their 5-20.

The reason I would go with 6.5 CM is the ammo is so accurate from the factory and it's one of the best deals if you're buying ammo vs. reloading. It'll knock deer down just fine if that's what your hunting.

The reason I would go with the 12 LRP is you can sell the HSP stock with detachable mag pretty easily if you decide to upgrade stocks down the road.

This is probably the cheapest setup you will want to go with and it's still going to be a lot of money for a kid and it's going to take thousands of rounds to train so you have to factor that in.

Savage 12 LRP $899
SWFA 3-15 $699
Base $100
Rings $100
Harris Bipod $100
Rear Bag $20
140 AMAX about $1.30/rnd

So you're looking at about $1900 before you even buy ammo. You could save a little in some spots but that is a pretty basic setup.

 

[Delta4-3]

Tikka t3. Great trigger, detachable box mag, $500. The action is 0.001" square from the factory. I have trued a lot or 700's that were at least 0.020" off square!

 

[Mnhunter3982]

Tikka t3. Great trigger, detachable box mag, $500. The action is 0.001" square from the factory. I have trued a lot or 700's that were at least 0.020" off square!

What do you mean by "Square from factory"?