Rifle Scopes 10x fixed effective range

[Nik S]

While we all can appreciate the flexibility and versatility that a variable power scope offers, I'm curious if we can (subjectively) quantify practical or "comfortable" min/max ranges of a fixed 10x scope with decent glass. This isn't intended to spark a debate on fixed vs. variable, but is rather an exercise to ask, what niche in terms of effective ranges does a 10x fixed scope fill?

Answers might be nuanced. For example, hunting vs. steel, comfortable ranges vs. stretching it, or differences between the few brands that offer a 10x fixed. Also curious how much range (if any) does an SWFA HD 10x offer over the classic? What about the Schmidt?

 

[Bender]

I shoot 650yd prairie dogs with my fixed 10 swfa on my .223, I can spot them much further and have unsuccessfully shot at them at well over 1000yd.

 

[Niles Coyote]

A fixed ten power is a lot like the 3 oh hate... and maybe that's why they go together so well. They can do whatever you ask of them in a pinch but there is almost always something better suited for the job.

 

[308pirate]

The answer is most certainly directly proportional to target size and the scope's resolving power.

 

[BR7.62]

I like the idea of fixed power but I always seem to replace them on clones eventually.
Seems like the 10x Leupold are blurry at fifty, at 700 is fine on Steel.
What did Chris Kyle take his longest shot with? Was a 10, 12, or 15 max mag I think.

 

[westford86]

It's a super broad question. Depending on what you're trying to accomplish the answer will vary, as you've acknowledged.

Personally, I'd say 10X is good for shooting out to 1000 meters.

Last week I was shooting steel silhouettes on a range from 400 to 1200 meters and most of the time I was keeping the scope at 12X. It's not a unconceivable to think you couldn't do the same with 10X.

 

[BR7.62]

That's a good point, I wouldn't even think about it for deer hunting the woods around here or something.
Be terrible to try and get on target.

 

[Niles Coyote]

What did Chris Kyle take his longest shot with? Was a 10, 12, or 15 max mag I think.

IIRC, 5.5-22X50 NF NXS SFP

 

[Onewolf42]

I started my long range shooting adventure with a Bushnell Elite 10X scope on a Savage 260 LRP. One day I had 5 consecutive hits and 8/10 on a 6" plate at 1000 yds so I would say a 10X fixed and be effective at 1000 yds. I have subsequently upgraded to the SWFA 12X on two of my rifles. The Bushnell was great to learn with because it has no focus/parallax adjustment so you have to learn precise eyebox control.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

S&B 10x42 PMII will get you to 1,000 yds easy. Only 6.5 mils with the 6.5 SAUM

 

[winniethepooh]

I run a swfa 10x on my remington 308 and there’s plenty of adjustment to get to 1000

 

[squirrelsniper]

If you're talking about pretty good size targets (12" plates up to full silhouettes), a good 10X can work fine out to 1,000yds. Trying to shoot smaller targets is where the problem begins, because if the target is small enough, you just simply can't see it well enough to make an accurate shot. Personally, I consider a 10X a good 600yd scope. It will certainly work farther out, but the target needs to be of good size.

 

[Vargmat]

I took my 10x to 680 meters last weekend. Had no issues hitting a 0.8 MIL target. I feel comfortable going longer but that was the furthest target set at that competition.

 

[koshkin]

This is really a function of what you are shooting at. If the targets are fairly large and/or standout well due to color, you can shoot as far as you want with a 10x scope.

SWFA's 10x42 HD works a little better than the Classic on low contrast targets, so it helps in difficult light, etc. In good light, practical range on these two is pretty similar.

ILya

 

[Nik S]

Lots of great responses here. I think on the high end of range, we seem to be landing on:

Steel target or silhouette: 10x shines at 600 yds. Capable to 1000yds, or more depending on conditions. Harder to be precise here, though HD and S&B can help sharpen the image especially in difficult light.

Now if we were pull back to low range shots, particularly when target acquisition becomes a determining factor: movers or hunting (though these are for me very different categories; I don't shoot at moving animals). At the low ranges where is 10x too much magnification?

At the end of this, it'd be great to arrive at some basic figures. For example:

Static target: sweet spot xx-600yds. Capable xx-1000+yds

Movers: xx-xx yds.

Hunting: xx-xx yds.

Nik

 

[308pirate]

At the end of this, it'd be great to arrive at some basic figures. For example:

Static target: sweet spot xx-600yds. Capable xx-1000+yds

Movers: xx-xx yds.

Hunting: xx-xx yds.

Nik

Why?

All this that you're asking is 100% situational, and the situational aspect of it has many dimensions. Some of those dimensions have been mentioned already, some have not.

As an example of why this whole discussion is moot is that what may seem impossible or irresponsible for you (shooting moving animals as an example) is a skill that other shooters possess and make use of frequently.

Why not go out and establish what those parameters are for yourself, you know....by shooting? No one who actually shoots is going to care what your "criteria" is for the use of a 10X scope, as they will have their own.

 

[Nik S]

My objective is to see what basic ranges the community arrives at to serve as one piece in this puzzle called scope selection, not specifically for me, but for anyone considering a fixed power scope. There are a lot of good reasons to choose a variable, and a few good reasons to choose a fixed. Without getting into that discussion, the objective here is simply an attempt to extract a quantifiable ballpark capability of a decent 10x scope. And we got a lot of good answers at the upper ranges that were markedly consistent.

Fundamentally, a shooter considering a fixed scope is going to ask, "Can I reach out there with accuracy?" and "What's going to be too close?" Those are the two primary compromises that a fixed scope presents. Situations definitely change the solutions to those questions, and perhaps in concession to those many situations I unsuccessfully selected basic situations to anchor those solutions to. Essentially I was trying to distinguish between a paper target that wasn't moving at short range that a 10x could handle just fine, and a moving target that might cause difficulty to a 10x at short range.

With information like this, people who aren't experts might be able to look at the numbers and find an answer to, "do these ranges fit within my practical use?" Maybe a fixed scope falls within the practical use of that individual shooter. Maybe it falls short. That's helpful knowledge as part of a much larger decision process for what is an expensive piece of equipment.

 

[mikethetiger55]

My shooting applications are probably 80% hunting related and 20% target related. With that said, I know several hunters that have been hindered by scopes with either higher min magnification or higher fixed power magnification when hunting in wooded areas and/or targeting moving game in LA/MS. In dense swamp and wooded areas a 10X scope can be a hindrance. However, for most deer hunting applications that I have experienced I can't see needing much more than 10X on a scope, especially with dealing with ~75-300 (max) yard shots. I do find myself dialing down to squeeze the last bit of light out at dawn/dusk and really only use higher powers for seeking out game, but then that's where a good pair of binoculars comes in. As said above, it all depends on your application. I'm not military and have never done anything "snipery" so no comments in that regards.

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

It all depends on how fine you want to aim and how fine the reticle subtends. I have no issues shooting ELR with a Sightron fixed 10x which has 150 MOA of elevation. 24"x24" targets at 1400 yards are not an issue with a fixed 10x optic. I have shot several smallish groups, on paper, at 1000 yards with a TRG 42 using a fixed 10X Sightron (4.5-5.5" three shot groups). Your mileage may vary.

EJ

 

[houtdoor]

That's a good point, I wouldn't even think about it for deer hunting the woods around here or something.
Be terrible to try and get on target.

I would agree. Hunting in the deep East Texas trees I use a 1 - 5 or iron sights for maximum target acquisition. Since most of my shooting is geared toward hunting I shoot 3-9 or 4-12 and I'm rarely above 4.

 

[supercorndogs]

A fixed ten power is a lot like the 3 oh hate... and maybe that's why they go together so well. They can do whatever you ask of them in a pinch but there is almost always something better suited for the job.

I don't know if truer words have ever been spoken.

 

[supercorndogs]

If you go in the thick woods with a fixed 10x. YOURE WRONG. If you go into the desert/sage (open) environment it’s going to be fine. Distance is all you’re comfort zone, this is something you should have down . A quality of a skilled shooter is knowing what they can and can’t do .

YOUR WRONG LOL STFU. What if I practice up close with 10x? You know you don't need 1x to make a 20y shot right?

 

[CuTm]

YOUR WRONG LOL STFU. What if I practice up close with 10x? You know you don't need 1x to make a 20y shot right?

I would pull my Glock 40 from My basketball shorts at 20 yard and hip shoot it .
That said, I respect the opinions of others and appreciate sprinted and respectful debate.

 

[supercorndogs]

I would pull my Glock 40 from My basketball shorts at 20 yard and hip shoot it.
That said, I respect the opinions of others and appreciate sprinted and respectful debate.

Why would you shoot it in the hip?

 

[winniethepooh]

Turning into a buddly thread

 

[Bender]

CUM might have experienced being shot on his hip by..... well.... never mind....

 

[squirrelsniper]

At the end of this, it'd be great to arrive at some basic figures. For example:

Static target: sweet spot xx-600yds. Capable xx-1000+yds

Movers: xx-xx yds.

Hunting: xx-xx yds.

Well, it's really hard to answer hypotheticals, but I'll give it a try...

Static targets: It really depends on the target. If you want to shoot a 1/2" dot on a piece of paper at 25yds, you can. If you want to shoot a steel silhouette at 1,000yds, you can. Now, like a lot of things in shooting, this is personal opinion, but I'd say optimum for a static target of decent size would be 100-600yds.

Movers: That is really hard to say, because it depends not only on the target size, but the target speed. Also, are you already set up and expecting a mover, or were you expecting a static target and then get caught off guard by something moving. Without a specific scenario to play out, I'm going to have to assume you were set up waiting and expecting a mover and it's a silhouette at a medium (casual walk) speed. In that instance, 100-600yds would be possible, but optimum is probably going to be in the 100-400yd range.

Hunting: I'm going to assume something like a whitetail deer or similar-sized animal. Basically don't even attempt it under 100yds, and even at 100yds it better be in an open area and not trying to thread bullets between trees. A lot of magnification is fun on the target range, but magnification is not always your friend when hunting. The outer limit is kind of up to how good the shooter is, the angle of the animal, and whether the weapon has the power necessary for a clean kill. Really, for 10x you need to be looking at least 150-200yds on the bottom end and probably about 500yds at the outer limit unless the shooter is especially capable.

 

[Nik S]

Well, it's really hard to answer hypotheticals, but I'll give it a try...

Static targets: It really depends on the target. If you want to shoot a 1/2" dot on a piece of paper at 25yds, you can. If you want to shoot a steel silhouette at 1,000yds, you can. Now, like a lot of things in shooting, this is personal opinion, but I'd say optimum for a static target of decent size would be 100-600yds.

Movers: That is really hard to say, because it depends not only on the target size, but the target speed. Also, are you already set up and expecting a mover, or were you expecting a static target and then get caught off guard by something moving. Without a specific scenario to play out, I'm going to have to assume you were set up waiting and expecting a mover and it's a silhouette at a medium (casual walk) speed. In that instance, 100-600yds would be possible, but optimum is probably going to be in the 100-400yd range.

Hunting: I'm going to assume something like a whitetail deer or similar-sized animal. Basically don't even attempt it under 100yds, and even at 100yds it better be in an open area and not trying to thread bullets between trees. A lot of magnification is fun on the target range, but magnification is not always your friend when hunting. The outer limit is kind of up to how good the shooter is, the angle of the animal, and whether the weapon has the power necessary for a clean kill. Really, for 10x you need to be looking at least 150-200yds on the bottom end and probably about 500yds at the outer limit unless the shooter is especially capable.

This, sir, is the kind of summary I'd hoped we could arrive at.

Yes, hypothetical, situational. But also some good ballpark numbers from which to form a basis of capabilities.

 

[Burdy]

A fixed 10x with a large objective, all things being equal, will gather light better than a variable. This is why pronghorn antelope gurus that shoot across open areas @ dawn and dusk will swear by the fixed 10x. So this is in fact, a scenario that the fixed 10 will fill better than any variable.

 

[Kickin45]

Agree with above. Your wanting a scope that’s good out to xxx range but also xx range and maybe x as well. That’s not a job for a fixed power scope. Short, medium and long range are situational, that means adjustable power.

 

[hewhofightsfoo]

Why?

All this that you're asking is 100% situational, and the situational aspect of it has many dimensions. Some of those dimensions have been mentioned already, some have not.

As an example of why this whole discussion is moot is that what may seem impossible or irresponsible for you (shooting moving animals as an example) is a skill that other shooters possess and make use of frequently.

Why not go out and establish what those parameters are for yourself, you know....by shooting? No one who actually shoots is going to care what your "criteria" is for the use of a 10X scope, as they will have their own.

The situations may change, the zoom does not. Downrange on deployments, an SDM with a fixed zoom optic is still purpose built for certain engagements at certain ranges, regardless of the shooters personal criteria. The shooter is trained and expected to shoot the rifles capability, not his own. I think he's just trying to set parameters for the platform, not the person. Having said that, most if this stuff has been extensively studied and tested in the DoD, so the answers are already available.

 

[supercorndogs]

A fixed 10x with a large objective, all things being equal, will gather light better than a variable. This is why pronghorn antelope gurus that shoot across open areas @ dawn and dusk will swear by the fixed 10x. So this is in fact, a scenario that the fixed 10 will fill better than any variable.

It actually doesn't gather light better, a fixed power just has less lenses to transmit the light, so it looses less in the process.

 

[Burdy]

It actually doesn't gather light better, a fixed power just has less lenses to transmit the light, so it looses less in the process.

Uh...ok. Didn't you just make my point? Maybe the term "gather" is what you are hung up on? It will get more light to the eye, period.

 

[308pirate]

The situations may change, the zoom does not. Downrange on deployments, an SDM with a fixed zoom optic is still purpose built for certain engagements at certain ranges, regardless of the shooters personal criteria. The shooter is trained and expected to shoot the rifles capability, not his own. I think he's just trying to set parameters for the platform, not the person. Having said that, most if this stuff has been extensively studied and tested in the DoD, so the answers are already available.

What the Army does is of little relevance to the way many of us use our rifles. I think many civilian shooters have demonstrated that the military is not always the subject matter expert many think they are when it comes to shooting.

 

[hewhofightsfoo]

What the Army does is of little relevance to the way many of us use our rifles. I think many civilian shooters have demonstrated that the military is not always the subject matter expert many think they are when it comes to shooting.

Maybe. But where I hunt mule deer looks pretty similar to where I was deployed to in Afghanistan. The 200-500 yard shots across ridges are similar, hell even the weather is the same. The idea of the fixed 10x scope being a good balance between target acquisition and zoom, and if built properly, the ruggedness, all satisfy the needs of both places, ergo, the platform is functional in most of the situations I have noticed in the civilian or military arena. But hey, what do I know...

 

[jinxx4ever]

Ior valdada 10x56 illuminated mp-8 ret thoughts?

 

[CuTm]

Don’t take a fixed 10 anywhere you can hit whatever you’re hunting with a football. Can it be done easy? yes. Should you make love to goats?no. Shooting targets 99% of the time it won’t fucking matter. The people shooting far enough successfuly a 10x would hinder their performance , would fit in a single wide mobile home.

 

[supercorndogs]

Uh...ok. Didn't you just make my point? Maybe the term "gather" is what you are hung up on? It will get more light to the eye, period.

No, I didn't make any point, I explained to you and others the why and how of your half true statement. I decided not to mention the rest of your post, how about you point me to some of these "Antelope Gurus" suggesting you need a 10x to shoot across flat prairie in low light. I don't know why you finished by telling us you are on your period because, we could tell.

 

[RTH1800]

Not going to get into the argument. Just state my expirence.
I use a 2.5-10X24 for most of my centerfire hunting. It’s set at 10X at all times for daylight shooting. I am told it’s actually 9.8x.
I shoot to 800 meters with it on game and varmints. No issues. Have not changed power for hunting in daylight ever.
FWIW.

 

[Niles Coyote]

8-10x is where I keep my variable when hunting SE Montana and I have often dialed up to around 14-15x but I can't remember going lower. Back in the Michigan woods I have found 2-3x about perfect.

Shooting PRS matches it is rare for me to be lower than 12 nor higher than 18 even with 27x available.

 

[308pirate]

Maybe. But where I hunt mule deer looks pretty similar to where I was deployed to in Afghanistan. The 200-500 yard shots across ridges are similar, hell even the weather is the same. The idea of the fixed 10x scope being a good balance between target acquisition and zoom, and if built properly, the ruggedness, all satisfy the needs of both places, ergo, the platform is functional in most of the situations I have noticed in the civilian or military arena. But hey, what do I know...

Nothing in the east looks remotely like Afghanistan or where you hunt mule deer. So what works where you are doesn't necessarily work elsewhere. A fixed 10X sucks balls for hunting where I live and most likely in a five state radius from here.

 

[Burdy]

No, I didn't make any point, I explained to you and others the why and how of your half true statement. I decided not to mention the rest of your post, how about you point me to some of these "Antelope Gurus" suggesting you need a 10x to shoot across flat prairie in low light. I don't know why you finished by telling us you are on your period because, we could tell.

There is no legitimate debate possible if you can't even tell the truth. You state that I suggested "you need" a 10x. I never said "need". All else being equal, you will hunt later into the day with a fixed 10 power than with a variable. If you can't prove that statement wrong, just agree with it. As for your period comment, I just find it funny how tough you internet folk are to people you know nothing about. Something tells me your line of conversation would not proceed that way in person but I am sure you will disagree.

 

[hewhofightsfoo]

Nothing in the east looks remotely like Afghanistan or where you hunt mule deer. So what works where you are doesn't necessarily work elsewhere. A fixed 10X sucks balls for hunting where I live and most likely in a five state radius from here.

Uhhh, the original post wasn't asking for your opinion on eastern woodlands hunting. He said, "I'm curious if we can (subjectively) quantify practical or "comfortable" min/max ranges of a fixed 10x scope with decent glass." I contributed examples, in my personal experience, of where a fixed 10X can satisfy both military and state-side applications. You have challenged his personal 'parameters' as a shooter, and are now saying none of it matters anyways because you live in the woods. That last part is probably true. But, if your hypothetical experience with a fixed 10x is based on sitting in a tree and 'sniping' deer at 40 yards, then what exactly would you say that you are contributing here? Not meant to be an insult, but you talking about what 'sucks balls', and not addressing anything that such a platform is good for, is making me feel salty...

 

[hewhofightsfoo]

I run a swfa 10x on my remington 308 and there’s plenty of adjustment to get to 1000

How do you like it?? I've been considering their fixed 6x for a White Oak 18" SPR upper that I just got. Don't know anyone who has one, personally.

 

[Blackfoot 7]

 

[RNWRKNP]

All my scopes go to 11? no wait? Those are my amps......carry on.

 

[Bender]

Lies. The .308 trajectory dies at exactly 600yds where it goes from 1300fps to 0 instantly and falls to earth

 

[supercorndogs]

There is no legitimate debate possible if you can't even tell the truth. You state that I suggested "you need" a 10x. I never said "need". All else being equal, you will hunt later into the day with a fixed 10 power than with a variable. If you can't prove that statement wrong, just agree with it. As for your period comment, I just find it funny how tough you internet folk are to people you know nothing about. Something tells me your line of conversation would not proceed that way in person but I am sure you will disagree.

I am not sure why you got so butt hurt that I corrected your incorrect statement. Usually a thank you is in order when someone teaches you something. Light transmission and light gathering are not the same thing. And these "antelope gurus" can we assume they don't exist?

 

[308pirate]

Uhhh, the original post wasn't asking for your opinion on eastern woodlands hunting. He said, "I'm curious if we can (subjectively) quantify practical or "comfortable" min/max ranges of a fixed 10x scope with decent glass." I contributed examples, in my personal experience, of where a fixed 10X can satisfy both military and state-side applications. You have challenged his personal 'parameters' as a shooter, and are now saying none of it matters anyways because you live in the woods. That last part is probably true. But, if your hypothetical experience with a fixed 10x is based on sitting in a tree and 'sniping' deer at 40 yards, then what exactly would you say that you are contributing here? Not meant to be an insult, but you talking about what 'sucks balls', and not addressing anything that such a platform is good for, is making me feel salty...

I already gave my answers in this thread. You can look them up

 

[steve123]

10x

I prefer more mag for self spotting or seeing detail.

Sometimes I like more FOV than 10x provides.

Once I had a old SWFA fixed 10x MD with moa adjust, it went down the road asap.

Truthfully I'm rarely on 10x in the variables.

I can't think of any situation where I would want a fixed 10x???