130 vs 140+ class bullets for PRS

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Ive been going back and forth and have shot both in comps. While the heavies are much more popular in comps, It makes me wonder why the 130 class bullets like the 130 AR hybrid are not more popular.

You basically replicate a 105/109 flight path. Similar BC. Lower recoil. Can run about the same velocity. Bullets are also a bit cheaper.

I have ran the 153 and 156 bergers and the 143 normas in the past, but I mostly shoot 109s out of a 6GT. Would it make more sense to just load up 130 Berger AR hybrids about 2800 in a 6.5cm to closely match the 109? Seems like if you switch back and forth between calibers (which I do when shooting a ton of back to back to back matches and don't have time to reload) it would make more sense.

Thoughts?

 

[M4orturnate]

I shoot 140s at almost 2800. The benefit to 6.5 for me is the bigger projo is easier to see in flight and also on plate(or the miss). I played with some factory 136g and didn't really notice much difference in wind and it was only going 2720fps. I bet barrel life is better with 130s then typical 6mm.

 

[morganlamprecht]

it wasn’t much difference to me, I shot either

I ran the 130 AR hybrids for a year or so when they first came out

The last year I shot 2 day matches…

1st: 6mm/108/3k fps
9th: 6.5/140/2750 fps
2nd: 6.5/130/2900 fps
17th (finale): 6.5/140/2750 fps (different rifle and bullet than the previous 6.5)

Even tho my 2 worst finishes were w/ 140s, at both those matches I made some mental mistakes that had nothing to do with the shooting side that cost me enough pts I would have been top 5 in both

While shooting, I don’t remember being able to tell much difference other than very slightly less wind past 800 yds w/ the 140s

 

[kthomas]

@Lowlight has always been a proponent of 130's in 6.5

Try it and see if you like it. I feel like you are trying to split hairs here though.

 

[DLS]

I have used the 130’s running mid 2800’s with both Bergers and the cheaper but very good Norma Golden targets and it’s a good option IMO. N550 worked really well as far a powder goes.

 

[fdkay]

I know some folks don't like them, but I always thought the 130 RDF would be the cats ass

 

[Marine52]

For PRS-size targets, you’re not going to see much of a difference ballistically.

Just go with the bullet/load that your rifle prefers.

 

[roostercogburn98]

@Lowlight has always been a proponent of 130's in 6.5

Try it and see if you like it. I feel like you are trying to split hairs here though.

Was thinking I had seen that he was talking them up a while back. Gain a little speed to help try and offset wind drift correct?

 

[kthomas]

I know some folks don't like them, but I always thought the 130 RDF would be the cats ass

The RDF's were a great idea, just seemed like poor execution from Nosler.

I tried the first batches of 140 RDF's, and they were terribly inconsistent. The nickname they developed, 'Random Damn Flier', is very apt. I think I have somewhere between 1,500-2,000 140 RDF projectiles collecting dust in my reloading room. Should've tried them out first before buying 2,000 of them

At the end of the day, if you really want lightweight high BC projectiles (that have any semblance of consistency), the logical conclusion is to go to solids. But that introduces a whole different can of worms (chamber design, barrel nuances, cost, splash, etc).

 

[GAl08]

if you're going to run 123gr. and heavier bullets in the Grendel, consider H4895. it has one of the lowest temp coefficients around. if i recall about 1/2 or 1/3 of what Benchmark has.

 

[Long Range 338]

if you're going to run 123gr. and heavier bullets in the Grendel, consider H4895. it has one of the lowest temp coefficients around. if i recall about 1/2 or 1/3 of what Benchmark has.

 

[Long Range 338]

140s are just a touch heavy for the Creedmoor IMO. If you can push them to about 2850 they do really well. What the 130s lack in BC can be at least partially picked up because of the additional velocity. If you were trying to get past 1k it could be detrimental but inside of 8-900 there is probably no penalty.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Ive been going back and forth and have shot both in comps. While the heavies are much more popular in comps, It makes me wonder why the 130 class bullets like the 130 AR hybrid are not more popular.

You basically replicate a 105/109 flight path. Similar BC. Lower recoil. Can run about the same velocity. Bullets are also a bit cheaper.

I have ran the 153 and 156 bergers and the 143 normas in the past, but I mostly shoot 109s out of a 6GT. Would it make more sense to just load up 130 Berger AR hybrids about 2800 in a 6.5cm to closely match the 109? Seems like if you switch back and forth between calibers (which I do when shooting a ton of back to back to back matches and don't have time to reload) it would make more sense.

Thoughts?

That's exactly what I do. I shoot the 130 otm in 6.5cm and it is a laser. Very predictable bullet if that makes sense. Seems like my dope is just more consistent with it. It's really the easy button. People get caught up in all the BC stuff and automatically go to a 140+ bullet but the 130 is an excellent choice imo. Mine runs at 2865 or so and always shoots great.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

When I was running 6.5CM in two different rifles, I used the 130 VLD in one and the 144 Hybrid in the other. If anything, I preferred the 130’s, but accuracy wise, they were both very good. In truth, the individual rifle made much more difference, shooting either in the rifle using the 144’s, really hard to notice.

 

[kthomas]

Was thinking I had seen that he was talking them up a while back. Gain a little speed to help try and offset wind drift correct?

I think that was the idea. For performance/velocity, I think Frank liked the velocities of the 130's in a 6.5 Creedmoor, in his mind, that weight class was more suited to the cartridge.

In reality, you're splitting hairs between the 130's and 140's, IMO.

 

[SkyScrapin]

130s on average perform better than 140s+ in both bolts and gassers for me. Tighter SDs and groups. Can gain back some speed even if you're not chasing velocity.

130 hybrids and tipped game kings are among my favorites especially in shorter barrels.

 

[Lowlight]

The 130s kick ass, but for the creedmoor the best bullet to balance weight and speed is the 136gr Scenar L - these rock.

140 class BC with the speed to take advantage

Though not to stick a wrench in it, cuz I do feel light is right. But the guys out west here are doing the 153gr 6.5 and they only push it around 2600fps. You have to reload it in that slow mode and hit the SD to below 4fps but man, I have seen it do 3” groups at 1k in the wind.

 

[Rob01]

Have shot the 140 weights since the beginning and still my favorite. Now with a .640+ BCs they do the job very well. I have started loading some 153 ATIPS at 2680fps and they have very similar recoil to the 140s at about 100fps faster.

I shoot 6mm also but no issues jumping around but if you want to load similar in different calibers than try the 130 and see if they work for you.

 

[4O6shootist]

I run 153s at 2610, and they shoot equally as well at 2700fps, 28" 7.5tw barrel. My wind calls at the same or better than all the 6s accept a fast creed. I prefer the slower speed, and higher energy on target. I think 140s high 2700 low 2800s is plenty. The 130s have less bc than a 109, 110, 112, 115. So the recoil is uppes for the same trajectory and wind hold as a 6gt or 6dasher.

 

[Chato308]

I've been running 130gr TMK's this entire season. Wind drift is the main difference, recoil has been very pleasant though and spotting impacts hasn't been too difficult and I also shoot suppressed. 42.3gr of H4350 and 130gr TMK's are getting me around 2,875 FPS

 

[rothgyr]

I just got a 6.5x47L chambered up and tried the 130 AR Hybrids vs the 140s. The day I had both, the wind wasn't super strong, maybe 5ish MPH crosswinds, and didn't see anything significant wind wise at 600 yds. Possibly a tenth. Possibly. Both were going 2800ish with low SDs.

The 130s grouped a lot better than the 140s for me, so I stocked up on the 130s and plan to shoot those at 2820.

 

[rothgyr]

130s, 5 shot group:

140s, 5 shot group, with a few 6mms on the same paper:

 

[R_A_W]

Still loving the 153.5 LRHTs, but also really liked the 130 OTM's. Just ordered an 8tw from Travis Stevens for my next barrel

This barrel noticeably slower than my last... zero load development, just picked 50k jump & 41.88gr H4350 @ 2830fps

 

[Niles Coyote]

I'm goofing around with this idea as well using 135 A-tips around 2650 in a 6.5x47L for a few matches. Recoil energy is just slightly more than my 6mm GT load. I'm loading the 6.5 to around 2650 which puts me at just slightly better in the wind and 25% more energy on target at 1k. We will see how it plays out.

 

[salks]

I thought it was interesting that Andy Slade won the AG cup shooting 6.5 creedmore with 156 gn bullets. One of the reasons he preferd it was the TOF to pick up trace and spot impacts. Along with BC in the wind. There was more to it than just the numbers for PRS type shooting.

 

[4O6shootist]

I thought it was interesting that Andy Slade won the AG cup shooting 6.5 creedmore with 156 gn bullets. One of the reasons he preferd it was the TOF to pick up trace and spot impacts. Along with BC in the wind. There was more to it than just the numbers for PRS type shooting.

I run 153.5 Bergers at 2620 with my 65cm, the time of flight and energy on target or splash if you miss is a real thing. My ability to see info down range has def gone up. I used to run 6mms at 2900-2950 and the slower bullet has given me more usable info. I know the bullet flight time is fractions of a second, but our eye/brain processing is about 6-8 frames per second on average.

 

[Sheldon N]

I recently shot 6.5 creed in an NRL Hunter match with 153.5's at 2540 in an 11lb gun. I was shocked at how well you could see trace and how much time you had to spot impacts, despite the much lighter gun. My normal PRS rig is 105 hybrids at 2850 in a 23lb gun so it's not like I was fast to begin with. It does make me curious about what slow 6.5 creed would be like in a PRS rig.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Those were my thoughts as well but I figured if I was targeting lower velocities I might as well reduce my case size too.

 

[Ledzep]

Sidebar: I did a 30" 6.5 Grendel with a .210" throat one time specifically to shoot 153's seated to the neck/shoulder junction at 2450-2550fps with minimal recoil. Not quite enough case capacity to get it done unfortunately (with anything remotely temp stable anyway). A 6.5 BRX or 6.5 Dasher might be worth looking into, or just easy button the 6.5x47. Anyway the point was to minimize powder charge (recoil, barrel life) and get 153gr A-tips at enough velocity to keep them supersonic to 1200yd at sea level. RL-17 was the closest contender and it shot OK but not great. Regardless, the trace spotting was unbelievable out of a 22lb race gun. Ended up just reaming it out to 6.5 Creedmoor.

As for light vs heavy it's the same story as it's always been. The lighter bullets have less recoil, get there faster and flatter, but with more wind deflection and some more ballistic degredation on the long ball targets. Drag correlates strongly to wind deflection so you have to weigh out if you're shooting UKD or targets that you have to range where ranging errors or velocity related vertical are more of a hit to you vs. wind deflection.

For something like competition dynamics or NRL Hunter, or actual tactical application I'd favor lighter. For PRS in western states I think the heavies win out in the wind. YMMV.

 

[4O6shootist]

Sidebar: I did a 30" 6.5 Grendel with a .210" throat one time specifically to shoot 153's seated to the neck/shoulder junction at 2450-2550fps with minimal recoil. Not quite enough case capacity to get it done unfortunately (with anything remotely temp stable anyway). A 6.5 BRX or 6.5 Dasher might be worth looking into, or just easy button the 6.5x47. Anyway the point was to minimize powder charge (recoil, barrel life) and get 153gr A-tips at enough velocity to keep them supersonic to 1200yd at sea level. RL-17 was the closest contender and it shot OK but not great. Regardless, the trace spotting was unbelievable out of a 22lb race gun. Ended up just reaming it out to 6.5 Creedmoor.

As for light vs heavy it's the same story as it's always been. The lighter bullets have less recoil, get there faster and flatter, but with more wind deflection and some more ballistic degredation on the long ball targets. Drag correlates strongly to wind deflection so you have to weigh out if you're shooting UKD or targets that you have to range where ranging errors or velocity related vertical are more of a hit to you vs. wind deflection.

For something like competition dynamics or NRL Hunter, or actual tactical application I'd favor lighter. For PRS in western states I think the heavies win out in the wind. YMMV.

There are a few guys who shoot a 65gt in benchrest game, it was reported to be very accurate. Info over on accurate shooter.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I recently shot 6.5 creed in an NRL Hunter match with 153.5's at 2540 in an 11lb gun. I was shocked at how well you could see trace and how much time you had to spot impacts, despite the much lighter gun. My normal PRS rig is 105 hybrids at 2850 in a 23lb gun so it's not like I was fast to begin with. It does make me curious about what slow 6.5 creed would be like in a PRS rig.

I shot 153s in my NRL hunter rig and really liked how it grouped.

I keep thinking about the long bomb stage at lead farm, and seeing guys like you just hammer 13-1400 yards with a 105 in high wind. My best 1 day scores were with a 6.5CM and my best 2 days are with the 6GT.

Really makes me think the caliber doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the skill and experience of the shooter, as well as their reloading skills to keep their ES low for those long range stages. If your fundamentals are not rock solid then the heavy 6.5s will definitely expose you a bit. You also have a bit more cost with both the bullets and the powder charge. Not a ton, but probably 10-20% more than shooting 6mm with 30-35gr of powder.

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

I run 153.5 Bergers at 2620 with my 65cm, the time of flight and energy on target or splash if you miss is a real thing. My ability to see info down range has def gone up. I used to run 6mms at 2900-2950 and the slower bullet has given me more usable info. I know the bullet flight time is fractions of a second, but our eye/brain processing is about 6-8 frames per second on average.

What twist rate?

 

[4O6shootist]

What twist rate?

7.5tw

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

140g Bergers over 40.5g of H4350. This is actually a 10 shot group. I left the paper up for a buddy and he did the calculations on the group size.