1426 yard deer

#251
Re: 1426 yard deer

I still think we have a responsibility to hunt with ethics in our mind. And those who don't shouldnt post it on YouTube with the justification "it's only feral pigs". We also trap, shoot and send dogs after wild boars over here, perhaps a bit different in some aspects.

We are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, we supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from our feeders to lure them away from the crop, and provide us with opportunities to study them, as well as selectively shoot animals in the group.

What actions are you taking to prevent damage to the crop?
 
#252
Re: 1426 yard deer

Brian , you are rude to people for no reason , you are nasty for no reason .

You are trying to get your point across but have nothing to say so you are attacking people's character when you have no idea who or what they are , you try to put anyone down who's opinion dose not match yours , witch dose not work as your argument is very childish , in this thread as with most I have seen you post in .

I am not telling anyone to have any sort of opinion they can think for them selves .

I am however saying that people like you are what give's shooting sport a bad name , because of the way you treat people , you would not treat people like that in a sales/marketing environment would you ?

So why do you think it is ok to treat people like that when you can hide behind you computer ?

Also the post supporting your position on long rang hunting , are mostly as childish as your own .

As far as long range hunting go's you have the same issue's as any other type of hunting , you owe it to whatever you hunt to cause it the least amount of suffering possible if you are not confident that you can kill it don't shoot .



Hey Wadcutter good shooting mate , keep it up .

Maybe you should post in the hunting section next time not as many hippy's
in there .
 
#253
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you should post in the hunting section next time not as many hippy's
in there .
</div></div>

Why is your conclusion that we who don't advocate extreme long range hunting, and arguments against it, are hippys? You hit bottom every time you post something..
 
#254
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still think we have a responsibility to hunt with ethics in our mind. And those who don't shouldnt post it on YouTube with the justification "it's only feral pigs". We also trap, shoot and send dogs after wild boars over here, perhaps a bit different in some aspects.

We are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, we supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from our feeders to lure them away from the crop, and provide us with opportunities to study them, as well as selectively shoot animals in the group.

What actions are you taking to prevent damage to the crop? </div></div>

Shooting 30 on 1500 acres is not enough to curtail the animals here. The pigs have no natural predators other than gators. We have trapped 30 in a couple weeks time, you do not even notice a reduction in how they root up the fields. More just move in to take their place.

You selectively shoot animals over bait? Where are your ethics? I cannot believe someone as ethical as you would stoop so low as to shoot an animal over bait, after all they gotta eat. You are no longer a hunter in my view. Shooting animals over bait are the actions of a sick phugger. After all animals got eat and they are people too, right? (lots of sarcasm there)

As far as feeding them tons of food to draw them away from the crops, what kinda freakin idea is that? Do you pay off terrorists too? Clueless aren't you? It is just not crop damage that is the problem. They destroy the vegetation in the little stream beds. Next thing you know with a little rain your little streams are huge eroded gullies.

Please do tell us ignorant Americans how the enlightened Europeans deal with feral pig problems. How do yall get them out of 2K acres cutovers that are so thick you cannot even crawl through them or see 5 feet in front of you?
 
#255
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still think we have a responsibility to hunt with ethics in our mind. And those who don't shouldnt post it on YouTube with the justification "it's only feral pigs". We also trap, shoot and send dogs after wild boars over here, perhaps a bit different in some aspects.

We are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, we supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from our feeders to lure them away from the crop, and provide us with opportunities to study them, as well as selectively shoot animals in the group.

What actions are you taking to prevent damage to the crop? </div></div>

Shooting 30 on 1500 acres is not enough to curtail the animals here. The pigs have no natural predators other than gators. We have trapped 30 in a couple weeks time, you do not even notice a reduction in how they root up the fields. More just move in to take their place. </div></div>

Not if your neighbours also shoot 30 (or 60, or whatever the numbers are) - I personally wouldn't mind shooting 60 on our 1500 acres, but we've panned out on around 30 animals per year due to succesful control. Being sucessful in achieving the numbers means sooner or later you will be in control. They're not an endless bunch of creatures spawning out of thin air..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You selectively shoot animals over bait? Where are your ethics? I cannot believe someone as ethical as you would stoop so low as to shoot an animal over bait, after all they gotta eat. You are no longer a hunter in my view. Shooting animals over bait are the actions of a sick phugger. After all animals got eat and they are people too, right? (lots of sarcasm there) </div></div>

Yup, hard to miss the sarcasm and I should problably resist to comment, but since its so stupid I can't. -What on gods green earth is wrong with shooting animals while they're eating!?
confused.gif
What do you bait your traps with, toilet paper and a porn mag? Truth is, the majority of game I see while hunting are either running, eating or flying. I can't actually think of a better moment to shoot them than when they're being undisturbed and eating peacefully. Picture perfect moment for getting whacked. To be a bit serious, this exactly what the feeding areas provide us with, great opportunity to shoot selectively with minimum risk of maiming prey who has done nothing to deserve less than a minimum risk, confident shot to the vitals.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as feeding them tons of food to draw them away from the crops, what kinda freakin idea is that? Do you pay off terrorists too? Clueless aren't you? It is just not crop damage that is the problem. They destroy the vegetation in the little stream beds. Next thing you know with a little rain your little streams are huge eroded gullies. </div></div>

As far as destroyed vegetation in stream beds, we don't have that problem, but sure sounds like another good reason to lure them away from sensitive areas, and we know both yours and my pigs like food.

-It sounds like you could learn quite a bit from me about successful pig control with maintained ethics, but I assume you're bit too unpolished to be bothered with that kind of discussions
wink.gif
 
#256
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still think we have a responsibility to hunt with ethics in our mind. And those who don't shouldnt post it on YouTube with the justification "it's only feral pigs". We also trap, shoot and send dogs after wild boars over here, perhaps a bit different in some aspects.

We are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, we supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from our feeders to lure them away from the crop, and provide us with opportunities to study them, as well as selectively shoot animals in the group.

What actions are you taking to prevent damage to the crop? </div></div>

Shooting 30 on 1500 acres is not enough to curtail the animals here. The pigs have no natural predators other than gators. We have trapped 30 in a couple weeks time, you do not even notice a reduction in how they root up the fields. More just move in to take their place. </div></div>

Not if your neighbours also shoot 30 (or 60, or whatever the numbers are) - I personally wouldn't mind shooting 60 on our 1500 acres, but we've panned out on around 30 animals per year due to succesful control. Being sucessful in achieving the numbers means sooner or later you will be in control. They're not an endless bunch of creatures spawning out of thin air..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You selectively shoot animals over bait? Where are your ethics? I cannot believe someone as ethical as you would stoop so low as to shoot an animal over bait, after all they gotta eat. You are no longer a hunter in my view. Shooting animals over bait are the actions of a sick phugger. After all animals got eat and they are people too, right? (lots of sarcasm there) </div></div>

Yup, hard to miss the sarcasm and I should problably resist to comment, but since its so stupid I can't. -What on gods green earth is wrong with shooting animals while they're eating!?
confused.gif
What do you bait your traps with, toilet paper and a porn mag? Truth is, the majority of game I see while hunting are either running, eating or flying. I can't actually think of a better moment to shoot them than when they're being undisturbed and eating peacefully. Picture perfect moment for getting whacked. To be a bit serious, this exactly what the feeding areas provide us with, great opportunity to shoot selectively with minimum risk of maiming prey who has done nothing to deserve less than a minimum risk, confident shot to the vitals.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as feeding them tons of food to draw them away from the crops, what kinda freakin idea is that? Do you pay off terrorists too? Clueless aren't you? It is just not crop damage that is the problem. They destroy the vegetation in the little stream beds. Next thing you know with a little rain your little streams are huge eroded gullies. </div></div>

As far as destroyed vegetation in stream beds, we don't have that problem, but sure sounds like another good reason to lure them away from sensitive areas, and we know both yours and my pigs like food.

-It sounds like you could learn quite a bit from me about successful pig control with maintained ethics, but I assume you're bit too unpolished to be bothered with that kind of discussions
wink.gif

</div></div>

What are you gonna do when your neighbors do not want the pigs controlled, and prefer that there property is a safe haven for the widdle piggies. We have that right in America.

While I was being sarcastic about my comments regarding bait, there are people that feel that way. They will denounce you as being a hunter. If you were to come to my area and brag about shooting an animal over bait they would laugh you out of the hunting goods store and inform you what an unethical SOB you are. That is the funny thing about hunting ethics, they vary from place to place for reasons you would not understand unless you have been to those places and experienced them.

You shoot over bait and defend the practice. Yet you wanna cry about others ethics. Do you think hunting over bait is any less despicable to non-hunters than shooting them at long range. Clueless people like you will be the demise of our sport.
 
#257
Re: 1426 yard deer

I can argument for why you should shoot eating animals, but I cannot argument for why you should shoot at animals standing 1426 yards away. That said, I am a person who understands external ballistics and the concerns you have to deal with for a such a shot, it is indeed an achievement, but regardless a very stupid shot with lots of openings for error. Therefore below my ethical standards for hunting.
 
#258
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can argument for why you should shoot eating animals, but I cannot argument for why you should shoot at animals standing 1426 yards away. That said, I am a person who understands external ballistics and the concerns you have to deal with for a such a shot, it is indeed an achievement, but regardless a very stupid shot with lots of openings for error. Therefore below my ethical standards for hunting. </div></div>

You are not much more than a poacher shooting animals over bait, learn to hunt. I would suggest hunting travel routes between feeding and bedding areas. I am aghast someone with no more ethics than yourself would look down on the practices of others. Pot meet kettle.
 
#260
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ran out of arguments, trapper-boy? </div></div>

That response is not to me is it master baiter?

Just in case that was referring to me. There is nothing left to argue about. You have already admitted your very very limited experience, and that you really have no clue as to what it takes to makes shots like the OP. You have already admitted your questionable ethics, and shown what a hypocrite you are. You have shown your anti-American and liberal tendencies. The only thing you have not shown us is your PETA card.
 
#262
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have no problem with feeding deer during winter or pigs to prevent them from turning the land upside down, and yet again - we're way ahead of you when it comes to preventing damage and controlling the population it seems. </div></div>

There ya go showing your ignorance again. You are in a totally different situation. You have no clue as to the challenges faced by our situation. Kinda the same with your limited shooting skills. Just because it does or does not work for you does not mean it will or will not work for others. Same for population control of pigs, or long range shots.
 
#263
Re: 1426 yard deer

Me ignorant, and then you throw in a "Limited shooting skills" while you're at it?

But OK, this is getting less reality based, and more of a BS-thread - to head back in the right direction, I have an assignment for you, who are such a talented hunter-trapper.


Give me a run down of the shot, 1426 yd, .338 Edge with a 300gn SMK at 2820 fps with Wadcutters input-data - how much margins you have to play with for a Sambar-sized target with a 20" vital zone radius - lets say its a tac-driver capable of .1 MOA inert precision even out to 1426 yd. How many errors can you do with temperature, wind, velocity, pressure, powder temperature, range estimation - and still hit with a cold bore shot? Please also include the error margin for any commercially available range finders who can measure >1426 yd as well.

If you can run the numbers and convince me that there is a substantial margin to any failure to hit vitals, I will shut my hippy-poaching mouth. Failure to complete the assignment will render you being pig bait for the remainder of your life
wink.gif
 
#264
Re: 1426 yard deer

My stuff is out in the shop.

IMAG0102-1.jpg


Your challenge sounds like a bunch of mental masturbation. Unlike you I am not one to sit around playing with my toys, I prefer to shoot mine. Tell me how many rounds you fired today further than 700 yards. I only fired about 16, but it was a light day. I have done what I set out to do which is prove that you are full of bull and that your objection is based upon little or no experience and a skewed sense of ethics. BTW I have never stated that I would have taken the shot that the OP took. I just take issues with little unethical bait hunters who have never even shot that distance, like you, raising hell about.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me ignorant, and then you throw in a "Limited shooting skills" while you're at it?

But OK, this is getting less reality based, and more of a BS-thread - to head back in the right direction, I have an assignment for you, who are such a talented hunter-trapper.


Give me a run down of the shot, 1426 yd, .338 Edge with a 300gn SMK at 2820 fps with Wadcutters input-data - how much margins you have to play with for a Sambar-sized target with a 20" vital zone radius - lets say its a tac-driver capable of .1 MOA inert precision even out to 1426 yd. How many errors can you do with temperature, wind, velocity, pressure, powder temperature, range estimation - and still hit with a cold bore shot? Please also include the error margin for any commercially available range finders who can measure >1426 yd as well.

If you can run the numbers and convince me that there is a substantial margin to any failure to hit vitals, I will shut my hippy-poaching mouth. Failure to complete the assignment will render you being pig bait for the remainder of your life
wink.gif

</div></div>
 
#265
Re: 1426 yard deer

Well this has been a fun 27 pages.

So let me throw this one out there for all you criticizers. In all of this 27 pages, no one has shared the maximum ethical range at which one should shoot game. So what is it? Since you can judge this individual without personal knowledge of his equipment, skill, preparation, and the conditions, you should be able to tell us what the maximum ethical range is with any cartridge.

Since this is the comet of all comet threads on hunting websites, I've run this play before. Funny how the answer is always roughly 50 yards further than whatever the responder's personal long shot is, with little regard for the fact that someone else may -- just may -- be a far better shooter than them.
 
#266
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well this has been a fun 27 pages.

So let me throw this one out there for all you criticizers. In all of this 27 pages, no one has shared the maximum ethical range at which one should shoot game. So what is it? Since you can judge this individual without personal knowledge of his equipment, skill, preparation, and the conditions, you should be able to tell us what the maximum ethical range is with any cartridge.

Since this is the comet of all comet threads on hunting websites, I've run this play before. Funny how the answer is always roughly 50 yards further than whatever the responder's personal long shot is, with little regard for the fact that someone else may -- just may -- be a far better shooter than them. </div></div>there is no exact range but experience shows alot of inaccuracies with medium to long range shots -it doesnt matter who you are you still miss unless your god ! I believe the conditions were the reason this 1420 yard shot was made presumably first shot succesfully --very little to no wind, had there had been a greater wind factor this could have been a running wounded beast - and that has really been the contention of the against side of this argument -we care about that you dont !
 
#267
Re: 1426 yard deer

Wadcutter, that was an amazing shot dude. Good on you, you've obviously been around the block one or twice.

Why is it always the same guys on here that want to dictate to others how it is that they should do things? Same guys always trying to shove their way of doing things down everyone's throat.

To the OP, keep doing what you're doing, you're obviously good at it.
 
#268
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My stuff is out in the shop.

IMAG0102-1.jpg


Your challenge sounds like a bunch of mental masturbation. Unlike you I am not one to sit around playing with my toys, I prefer to shoot mine. Tell me how many rounds you fired today further than 700 yards. I only fired about 16, but it was a light day. I have done what I set out to do which is prove that you are full of bull and that your objection is based upon little or no experience and a skewed sense of ethics. BTW I have never stated that I would have taken the shot that the OP took. I just take issues with little unethical bait hunters who have never even shot that distance, like you, raising hell about. </div></div>

Wow, you too own a ballistic computer, a Kestrel weather station and a laser range finder? Amazing..

I'd call it simple physics rather than mental masturbation, simple because anyone who run the numbers will come to the same conclusion, it isn't a safe shot. Given this, the only logical conclusion should be that it isn't a shot who gives bragging rights, but rather raise questions on judgement. So why support it, if you're not competent enough to do it yourself with all your extensive knowledge?

As far as shooting I've been at work today, and I only fired 2 rounds this weekend, both where on a European Elk calf and distance was a comfortable 140-150 meters = dropped from hypoxia within 20 seconds of the first shot, very ethical, very clean kill.


Btw I never said I've ever shot any animal over bait as well, I'm just saying it's a very good solution to control your population selectively and humanely, so stop playing with semantics you're not good enough at it..
 
#269
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">there is no exact range but experience shows alot of inaccuracies with medium to long range shots -it doesnt matter who you are you still miss unless your god ! I believe the conditions were the reason this 1420 yard shot was made presumably first shot succesfully --very little to no wind, had there had been a greater wind factor this could have been a running wounded beast - and that has really been the contention of the against side of this argument -we care about that you dont ! </div></div>

The waffle I expected....this was unethical but you cannot define what would have been ethical. Convenient, isn't it?

You also show glaring ignorance in crediting conditions for the first round hit...unlike shooting in a competition, the hunter can choose to shoot or not to shoot. Therefore, if conditions are not perfect the shooter can simply pass. They get to select conditions that make the shot possible. So to say it could have been a bad shot in worse conditions simply shows your ignorance as to how this game is played.

I've made my share of what most would consider long shots. I've passed on far more than that because I was not comfortable with the conditions. That's exactly the point.
 
#270
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
eddybo said:
As far as shooting I've been at work today, and I only fired 2 rounds this weekend, both where on a European Elk calf and distance was a comfortable 140-150 meters = dropped from hypoxia within 20 seconds of the first shot, very ethical, very clean kill.


</div></div>
Two shots? So you missed the first or what? Does that make your shot unethical?
Click to expand...
 
#271
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My stuff is out in the shop.

IMAG0102-1.jpg


Your challenge sounds like a bunch of mental masturbation. Unlike you I am not one to sit around playing with my toys, I prefer to shoot mine. Tell me how many rounds you fired today further than 700 yards. I only fired about 16, but it was a light day. I have done what I set out to do which is prove that you are full of bull and that your objection is based upon little or no experience and a skewed sense of ethics. BTW I have never stated that I would have taken the shot that the OP took. I just take issues with little unethical bait hunters who have never even shot that distance, like you, raising hell about. </div></div>

Wow, you too own a ballistic computer, a Kestrel weather station and a laser range finder? Amazing..

I'd call it simple physics rather than mental masturbation, simple because anyone who run the numbers will come to the same conclusion, it isn't a safe shot. Given this, the only logical conclusion should be that it isn't a shot who gives bragging rights, but rather raise questions on judgement. So why support it, if you're not competent enough to do it yourself with all your extensive knowledge?

As far as shooting I've been at work today, and I only fired 2 rounds this weekend, both where on a European Elk calf and distance was a comfortable 140-150 meters = dropped from hypoxia within 20 seconds of the first shot, very ethical, very clean kill.


Btw I never said I've ever shot any animal over bait as well, I'm just saying it's a very good solution to control your population selectively and humanely, so stop playing with semantics you're not good enough at it.. </div></div>

I do not need to run the numbers to know that a 1 MOA shot in zero wind is not a mind boggling feat.

Now you do not shoot animals over bait. That is not what you said earlier. But i would not expect anyone as ethical as you to be a liar. Do you even own a rifle or are you lying about that also.

"<span style="font-weight: bold">We</span> are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, <span style="font-weight: bold">we</span> supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from <span style="font-weight: bold">our feeders</span> to lure them away from the crop, and provide <span style="font-weight: bold">us</span> with opportunities to study them, as well as <span style="font-weight: bold">selectively shoot animals</span> in the group."
 
#273
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wadcutter, that was an amazing shot dude. Good on you, you've obviously been around the block one or twice.

Why is it always the same guys on here that want to dictate to others how it is that they should do things? Same guys always trying to shove their way of doing things down everyone's throat.

To the OP, keep doing what you're doing, you're obviously good at it. </div></div>If that was a shot at me Slapchop I think you missed but thanks for being ethical and doing it at close range -better luck next time
 
#274
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: qk78</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
eddybo said:
As far as shooting I've been at work today, and I only fired 2 rounds this weekend, both where on a European Elk calf and distance was a comfortable 140-150 meters = dropped from hypoxia within 20 seconds of the first shot, very ethical, very clean kill.

</div></div>
Two shots? So you missed the first or what? Does that make your shot unethical? </div></div>

She moved in my shot, can happen even at shorter ranges, so I followed up to be on the safe side, both were in the vitals within 5 cm. Better safe than sorry.
Click to expand...
 
#275
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My stuff is out in the shop.

IMAG0102-1.jpg


Your challenge sounds like a bunch of mental masturbation. Unlike you I am not one to sit around playing with my toys, I prefer to shoot mine. Tell me how many rounds you fired today further than 700 yards. I only fired about 16, but it was a light day. I have done what I set out to do which is prove that you are full of bull and that your objection is based upon little or no experience and a skewed sense of ethics. BTW I have never stated that I would have taken the shot that the OP took. I just take issues with little unethical bait hunters who have never even shot that distance, like you, raising hell about. </div></div>

Wow, you too own a ballistic computer, a Kestrel weather station and a laser range finder? Amazing..

I'd call it simple physics rather than mental masturbation, simple because anyone who run the numbers will come to the same conclusion, it isn't a safe shot. Given this, the only logical conclusion should be that it isn't a shot who gives bragging rights, but rather raise questions on judgement. So why support it, if you're not competent enough to do it yourself with all your extensive knowledge?

As far as shooting I've been at work today, and I only fired 2 rounds this weekend, both where on a European Elk calf and distance was a comfortable 140-150 meters = dropped from hypoxia within 20 seconds of the first shot, very ethical, very clean kill.


Btw I never said I've ever shot any animal over bait as well, I'm just saying it's a very good solution to control your population selectively and humanely, so stop playing with semantics you're not good enough at it.. </div></div>

I do not need to run the numbers to know that a 1 MOA shot in zero wind is not a mind boggling feat.

Now you do not shoot animals over bait. That is not what you said earlier. But i would not expect anyone as ethical as you to be a liar. Do you even own a rifle or are you lying about that also.

"<span style="font-weight: bold">We</span> are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, <span style="font-weight: bold">we</span> supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from <span style="font-weight: bold">our feeders</span> to lure them away from the crop, and provide <span style="font-weight: bold">us</span> with opportunities to study them, as well as <span style="font-weight: bold">selectively shoot animals</span> in the group."
</div></div>

What is your problem? You support ELR hunting shots, even though the risk of maiming is extremely high compared to shots at 4-500 yards, but you have issues with shots over feeders?

I think your hunting and moral principles are pretty scewed.
 
#276
Re: 1426 yard deer

@ Wadcutter That was an amazing first round hit! I think its up to people to make their own decision weather or not they can make the shot. You knew you could.. And you did. We as people should be responsible enough to know our limits.

Oh by the way how do those things taste?
 
#277
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well this has been a fun 27 pages.

So let me throw this one out there for all you criticizers. In all of this 27 pages, no one has shared the maximum ethical range at which one should shoot game. So what is it? Since you can judge this individual without personal knowledge of his equipment, skill, preparation, and the conditions, you should be able to tell us what the maximum ethical range is with any cartridge.

Since this is the comet of all comet threads on hunting websites, I've run this play before. Funny how the answer is always roughly 50 yards further than whatever the responder's personal long shot is, with little regard for the fact that someone else may -- just may -- be a far better shooter than them. </div></div>

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question posed by ATH
 
#278
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My stuff is out in the shop.

IMAG0102-1.jpg


Your challenge sounds like a bunch of mental masturbation. Unlike you I am not one to sit around playing with my toys, I prefer to shoot mine. Tell me how many rounds you fired today further than 700 yards. I only fired about 16, but it was a light day. I have done what I set out to do which is prove that you are full of bull and that your objection is based upon little or no experience and a skewed sense of ethics. BTW I have never stated that I would have taken the shot that the OP took. I just take issues with little unethical bait hunters who have never even shot that distance, like you, raising hell about. </div></div>

Wow, you too own a ballistic computer, a Kestrel weather station and a laser range finder? Amazing..

I'd call it simple physics rather than mental masturbation, simple because anyone who run the numbers will come to the same conclusion, it isn't a safe shot. Given this, the only logical conclusion should be that it isn't a shot who gives bragging rights, but rather raise questions on judgement. So why support it, if you're not competent enough to do it yourself with all your extensive knowledge?

As far as shooting I've been at work today, and I only fired 2 rounds this weekend, both where on a European Elk calf and distance was a comfortable 140-150 meters = dropped from hypoxia within 20 seconds of the first shot, very ethical, very clean kill.


Btw I never said I've ever shot any animal over bait as well, I'm just saying it's a very good solution to control your population selectively and humanely, so stop playing with semantics you're not good enough at it.. </div></div>

I do not need to run the numbers to know that a 1 MOA shot in zero wind is not a mind boggling feat.

Now you do not shoot animals over bait. That is not what you said earlier. But i would not expect anyone as ethical as you to be a liar. Do you even own a rifle or are you lying about that also.

"<span style="font-weight: bold">We</span> are 12 hunters + guests who shoot around 30 wild boars every year on our 1500 acre and keep a close dialogue with both the land owners and the land users in order to try to help as much as possible. Food wise, <span style="font-weight: bold">we</span> supply over 5 tonnes of peas and sugar plants from <span style="font-weight: bold">our feeders</span> to lure them away from the crop, and provide <span style="font-weight: bold">us</span> with opportunities to study them, as well as <span style="font-weight: bold">selectively shoot animals</span> in the group."
</div></div>

What is your problem? You support ELR hunting shots, even though the risk of maiming is extremely high compared to shots at 4-500 yards, but you have issues with shots over feeders?

I think your hunting and moral principles are pretty scewed. </div></div>

Actually I am just giving you hell. I support your right to hunt in any legal manner. But I also support the OPs right to hunt in any legal manner, without people giving him hell. Even though there are a bunch of people out there that think that neither you, him, or me have no business hunting at all, and that we are all monsters.
 
#279
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AJ Goddard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watched the video several times and all I see is a deer bailing off the hill side. Then you see it running through the trees and heading out of the lower left of the picture. How far did it run? </div></div>

Interesting observation. I didn't catch the dear moving off the left of the screen after it had fallen.
 
#280
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wadcutter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some interesting comments from the anti long range hunting mob. That's typical and nothing new to me. I get a lot of it down here from others that have no idea of what I do.

The funny thing is that I agree with a lot of what they say. Inexperienced shooters should not shoot further than their ability.

I will try and give you some insight into this shot.

To start with I am very experienced at long range. I have practiced out to past 2000 yards on a regular basis. At this exact location I practice regularly out to 1800 yards and know the area like the back of my hand.

On the day of the shot I passed up shots at 8 other deer because the conditions were not quite right. Some were under 700 yards. Later in the afternoon the wind dropped off to dead still. A group of deer were quietly feeding on a face that I have practiced on.

I got excellent distance readings and the deer were very quiet. I know their habits and they stand quite still for periods at a time. If you study the footage you will see the deer step up, turn side on and put its head down to feed. This was the exact oportunity that I had been waiting for and took the shot. It was no surprise to me that the deer went down. That is what was suppose to happen!

If there was any wind what so ever I would have been happy with just the video footage. Just like I was with the other deer I saw that day.

Long range hunting is not for everyone. I have killed my fair share of deer at close range. I find it too easy and like the challenge of long range hunting. A clean shot at long range is the end result of a lot of disciplin, practice and skill developement.

</div></div>
Its cool that you took the time to spell out your process to people who have an opinion on long range hunting, however it is sad that you even need to. I think its best the way you said it already, thousands of rounds of PRACTICE. Just because another guy doesnt take the time to, or have the ablitiy to do what you can, doesnt make you unethical. It is funny how people took all the time to say all the things that can happen on a shot like that, none of which did, why, because you obviously didnt take the shot until you had the ideal conditions for YOUR ability. Good work, and happy hunting.
 
#281
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carpenter07</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ATH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well this has been a fun 27 pages.

So let me throw this one out there for all you criticizers. In all of this 27 pages, no one has shared the maximum ethical range at which one should shoot game. So what is it? Since you can judge this individual without personal knowledge of his equipment, skill, preparation, and the conditions, you should be able to tell us what the maximum ethical range is with any cartridge.

Since this is the comet of all comet threads on hunting websites, I've run this play before. Funny how the answer is always roughly 50 yards further than whatever the responder's personal long shot is, with little regard for the fact that someone else may -- just may -- be a far better shooter than them. </div></div>

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question posed by ATH </div></div>

I think the answer should be whatever distance you can, without any doubt, hit within half or so of the vital zone presented with a cold bore shot.

To that, you should add the factor that the animal shouldn't be able to move out of a clean kill while bullet is mid-air. This factor can never be underestimated when we are talking about a live animal on the receiving end as I consider it.

For me, that distance would probably be 300-350 yards, although I'm pretty confident to get good hits out to 1000 yd+ with my kit under good conditions, but this has got little to do with what I should be able to perform while hunting the way I see it.
 
#283
Re: 1426 yard deer

Originally posted by Cazorp "She moved in my shot, can happen even at shorter ranges, so I followed up to be on the safe side, both were in the vitals within 5 cm. Better safe than sorry."

Originally posted by Cazorp "To that, you should add the factor that the animal shouldn't be able to move out of a clean kill while bullet is mid-air. This factor can never be underestimated when we are talking about a live animal on the receiving end as I consider it."

Hmmm does anyone else catch how he always contradicts himself
 
#284
Re: 1426 yard deer

This crap is still going on??? Wow, disappointing
frown.gif


With this kind of crappy response, why should anyone post their shots on here?? Next time someone makes a shot like this, they'll probably just keep it to themselves. All the pissing and moaning in the world wont change the way independently-minded people will hunt/shoot.... Just how much of their experiences they'll share with you.
 
#285
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunterkiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This crap is still going on??? Wow, disappointing
frown.gif


With this kind of crappy response, why should anyone post their shots on here?? Next time someone makes a shot like this, they'll probably just keep it to themselves.<span style="color: #FF0000"> All the pissing and moaning in the world wont change the way independently-minded people will hunt/shoot.</span>... Just how much of their experiences they'll share with you.

Are you hunting in New Zealand? <span style="color: #FF0000">Say no to heli-hunting</span>, and take pride in your trophy! </div></div>I find it quite funny you ranting and then I read your strap line at the bottom preaching about no heli hunting --

to quote you-- All the pissing and moaning in the world wont change the way independently-minded people will hunt/shoot.

Kinda leaves you in a "hypocritical" position doesn't it LOL
 
#287
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: qk78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Cazorp "She moved in my shot, can happen even at shorter ranges, so I followed up to be on the safe side, both were in the vitals within 5 cm. Better safe than sorry."

Originally posted by Cazorp "To that, you should add the factor that the animal shouldn't be able to move out of a clean kill while bullet is mid-air. This factor can never be underestimated when we are talking about a live animal on the receiving end as I consider it."

Hmmm does anyone else catch how he always contradicts himself </div></div>

You read it right, but still you cannot figure it out? Shots fired from safe range shouldnt cause a miss of the vitals, even if the animal moves.

My kill moved, either when my bullet impacted or just about when I fired, hard to say. bullet time is .2 seconds at the current distance. I didn't get any bullet reaction, which is pretty common with our moose over here, I couldn't see any blood dripping etc. - so I decided to follow up and fire again just to be on the safe side.

This is my 2 rounds, entry wounds, I imagine they would be more apart if distance was 1000 yd..

aspestakalv.jpg
 
#288
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunterkiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just don't care man - you are clearly a loser
sleep.gif


Troll </div></div>

Just a little advice ,when you put a name a few lines under your blurb its generally considered your own"name" .
 
#289
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunterkiwi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This crap is still going on??? Wow, disappointing
frown.gif


With this kind of crappy response, why should anyone post their shots on here?? Next time someone makes a shot like this, they'll probably just keep it to themselves. All the pissing and moaning in the world wont change the way independently-minded people will hunt/shoot.... Just how much of their experiences they'll share with you. </div></div>

Post a 30 or 300 yd clean shot on Sambar or any other game you care to hunt, or a 10 000 yard shot on steel, paper, rock - and I'll be the first to congratulate you for your achievements.
 
#290
Re: 1426 yard deer

Gentelmen I enjoy reading ELR-Beyond 1000 yards, but I'm tired of seeing this fighting at the top of the list and maybe so are a lot of other people. This kind of continued BS is just what anti gun people love lets not give them pages of ammunition! It might be time to say calf rope and move on. Great shot by the way.
 
#292
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is my 2 rounds, entry wounds, I imagine they would be more apart if distance was 1000 yd..
</div></div>

This is really not the right approach to this question because there is a big difference between imagining it would go this to it actually happening this way. This is an inductive argument which really has no weight because not only does it not guarantee a factual outcome but you have no way of defending it that does not end up in a circle of induction. There are also a number of different conditions that need to be taken into account i.e. geography, shooter skill, and the list goes on. Unless you have personally witnessed this person in action who are we to judge if he had a high probability of making the shot (essentially the definition of an ethical shot)?
 
#293
Re: 1426 yard deer

You sound like a smart person, and you definately have a point about my imaginary statement. You should have all the capacity in the world to figure out 1426 yd is no go for hunting, unless you also consider the prey being a justified target in some kind of sport where the ultimate goal is to figure out where your personal limit goes.

I don't think hunting is a sport, and I would say that any serious hunter would agree on this.
 
#294
Re: 1426 yard deer

@ cazorp
hunting (&#712;h&#652;nt&#618;&#331;)
—n
Related: venatic
a. the pursuit and killing or capture of game and wild animals, regarded as a sport
b. (as modifier): hunting boots; hunting lodge

taken directly from dictionary.com
So many must regard it as a sport but it all relies on the person taking the shot and what he feels comfortable with. Just because you are not does not mean that no one should. All in all it is up to the individual person and if he can live with his choices than it is his right to take the shot as it is not illegal. And it is not our place to judge. He made a great shot and harvested the animal with little or no suffering. Is that not what all "hunters" aim to do?
 
#295
Re: 1426 yard deer

Absolutely, I myself will never consider hunting being a sport. Yes its a hobby and yes, I might hunt and kill for other reasons than just food.

Thing is, I have no objection on the end result from what OP demonstrated in his video (ie. a dead Sambar), but I do have considerations to the methods of getting there, raising a thought; "is that really asserted it will work every time?" and my conclusion is no, it is a gamble even under good circumstances, and I am absolutely confident less skilled persons will try to replicate "its legit to try, and if I where to succed, would get lots of backslaps and bragging rights on some websites, where people would proclaim I am a top dawg hunter".

Yes, OP is a very experienced shooter from what I understand, but I don't think this specific action makes him a good hunter, but rather the opposite by showing lack of judgement and respect for the prey ultimately.
 
#297
Re: 1426 yard deer

It does not take a long range shooting vid to have some non-shooter to take shots they should not be taking. I have witnessed so many slobs (hunters) it is not funny. Why does a person take a running 100yd or 200yd shot? They know they have never shot at paper off hand at even 100. Most true long range shooters and hunters are pretty darn good at what they do.

Just because you think you are shooting at a distance where nothing can go wrong does not mean nothing will go wrong. Oh I have a .2 second flight time nothing will affect it. Bang hit a bird now wounded critter to go find. There are no guarantees on what will happen.

Those two exit shots look like the bullets tumbled and not mushroomed out. If they did tumble that is a very poor choice in bullets.
 
#298
Re: 1426 yard deer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug@Blackhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gentelmen I enjoy reading ELR-Beyond 1000 yards, but I'm tired of seeing this fighting at the top of the list and maybe so are a lot of other people. This kind of continued BS is just what anti gun people love lets not give them pages of ammunition! It might be time to say calf rope and move on. Great shot by the way. </div></div>

MAYBE Ch'e and Cazorp are anti hunters ?
 
#300
Re: 1426 yard deer

Honestly if you look at cazorps picture the "shots" are essientaly the same length and at what looks like to be the same angle. For that to happen the shots would have to be miraculously the same or something else happened like he stabbed it twice to illustrate his point. I didn't personally observe the shot or the aftermath so I'm gonna take the pesimistic induction approach and say the shots most likely didn't happen that way since I have never seen two wounds look like that in the past.

As far as him trying to dictate how people should shoot its pretty much a lost cause because he is gonna argue with you to the ends of the earth. So I'm just gonna leave it with a quote from forest gump " stupid is as stupid does"
 
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