1903A4 Kollmorgen 4X

[API Norway]

Well, I did make the A4 a bit moore shootable, with 4X scope. Sorry , not a MC1 , but the 26mm rings is a start though. Glas i crystal clear, so when the rain of cats and dogs ends, I will try her on the range. Mabye in weekend, steel plates @700m here we come

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Very nice!!!

What reticle?

Sirhr

 

[Random Guy]

Looks really good, but boy that objective bell comes close to hitting the handguard. I have the same grey anodized 4x Bear Cub scope with a fairly thin post and vertical statia line. (Same reticle as M84 scope). To me that 26mm scope with coated lens is a huge improvement over the M73B1 and M84 scopes. Thanks for the pics.

 

[API Norway]

Very nice!!!

What reticle?

Sirhr

Hi, thin crosshair , so could be fun on longer distance .

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Hi, thin crosshair , so could be fun on longer distance .

One of my favorite hunting rifles is a Sako Finnbear .270 with a dot reticle on it. Took more deer with that rifle than any other.

Beautiful setup! Can't wait for range report!

Sirhr

 

[camocorvette]

Beautiful!

 

[Calfed]

Nice.

I've got a couple of the Kollmorgen 4x scopes. Similar to yours, but with a blue finish.

Are those CMP vintage sniper match legal?

 

[isofahunter]

Very nice, I have a weakness for the 1903 and the 06!

 

[pmclaine]

I have a Kollmorgen 4X in black finish.

Dying to put it on my 10-22.

What are you using for a mount?

Open up the turret caps and let me see what your adjusters look like.

There were two types of mechanicals.

I theorize there was an early one built by the sub periscope engineers from which the MC-1 was derived and a later version when they were getting ready to sell to Redfield and has a simpler design.

Mine I suspect to be early as when you take the caps off it is a fascination of brass beauty. I'm seeing how it's function is adaptable to an MC-1. If I had skills with machine tools I could make an adjustable turret from my minds solution. It wouldn't have the exquisite tactile audible/clicker they were known for but it would be functional.

 

[Calfed]

Not the OP, but here is what my Kollmorgen Bearcub adjusters look like...

 

[pmclaine]

Yeah I consider those "late" by my theory....

Note the screws on the turrets of the MC-1

My scope



Look at these beautiful engineered adjusters.

If I had skills I'd make a threaded lower cup that would screw onto the threads the caps fit to.

Than I'd make the adjuster top that would use the two screws to mount to the adjuster. Have this fit into the lower cup with an oring to keep out water.

Figure out ranges and than mark the turret as a BDC style scope.

 

[Calfed]

The other one looks very similar...

 

[MrMojoDiver]

Yes those are the later Bear Cub’s; the civilian version of the MC-1 is the 4X Double. I’ve never shot in the CMP VS matches but the rules do/did allow the Kollmorgen in “MC-1 configuration” and I have my 4X Double set up that way (elevation=windage, windage=elevation).

Adding a shim to the front of the Redfield base will give you the necessary clearance using the vintage Redfield 26mm rings.

Without shim:

With shim:

 

[68hoyt]

Semi resurrection,
kollmorgen 4x bear cub ,
did they issue these for service or see service ?
26mm?
The m1c with the target knobs is inobtanium .

​

 

[pmclaine]

Semi resurrection,
kollmorgen 4x bear cub ,
did they issue these for service or see service ?
26mm?
The m1c with the target knobs is inobtanium .

​

Never heard of the standard Kollmorgen being used in service.

MC1 Kollmorgens are obtainium with the right cash. I’m guessing $5k is the market now.

 

[68hoyt]

Thanks pmclaine
I’ve seen the statements installing the bearcubs both kollmergens and redfield but wasn’t sure if they were substitutes or ever issued , I guess I should call and check on my VV friend and check on him give me an excuse to chat lol
Thanks again

 

[pmclaine]

I think they should be legal for sniper matches as a substitute.

 

[MrMojoDiver]

I think they should be legal for sniper matches as a substitute.

The 4X are, but I’m not sure if the Bear Cubs with the windage/elevation set further back are.

https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/CMPGamesRules.pdf

 

[68hoyt]

The 4x ?
They made a Kollmorgen with the adjustment knobs forward but they weren’t target knobs and 26mm tube ?
How hard are these to find ?

 

[MrMojoDiver]

I’ve got that earlier Kollmorgen on my A4-gery in the pics in the thread history and they’re not terribly hard to find as they come up on eBay for between $75-$150 but a lot of times it’s not the reticle you need. The bitch is finding the correct Redfield 26mm rings, although you can use standard Leupold 30mm’s with delrin inserts in a pinch. The Redfield rings come up on eBay occasionally and can be pricy but if you have patience you can find them on the cheap, even NIB, because folks see the 26mm as oddball and not rare.

The MC-1 has the adjustments forward and is the .mil version of the 4X Double Bear Cub, which is also a 26mm tube. At some point Kollmorgen moved the adjustments back towards the middle of the tube, like what the OP has in his pics, and they’re still badged as “4X”. The CMP states the scope needs to be a “Stith-Kollmorgan” (sic) in the USMC 1952 config, which I’ve always took to mean having the scope set up with the adjustments flipped as the MC-1 was set up. Additionally I don’t think the later Kollmorgens were badged with Stith Mounts on the eyepiece, so that may be a CMP consideration, but probably not an issue given some of the completely incorrect optics they allow like the Weaver K2.5 on the A4…

 

[68hoyt]

Ok , I want to put the Kollmorgen 4x with forward adjustments non target knobs , 26mm tube on a 1903a3
Which reticle am I looking for ?

Wow this is getting detailed but thanks for all the information guys
Anything else I’m not asking , missing ?
Mount rings info ?

 

[MrMojoDiver]

Reticle is the standard crosshairs, base is the Redfield S-Spec (eBay in the 80-100 range), and already posted the ring info. You need an A4/A4-style bolt as well, and there are folks who make them with varying degrees of success (one in particular should be avoided) but if you have the additional coin real ones come up for sale in the 300-400 range. Another option I’d recommend is calling the CMP Custom Shop and getting on their wait list to have the work done, including the bolt turn down, as they do an impeccable job. Another option is Warpath Vintage, as Chuck does a really nice job as well.

 

[68hoyt]

Thanks so much , if you see something please let me know , I have a stock ,K that was cut and needs repair , I have a bolt bent bought from the guy on cmp ( I’m building a 1922m2 clone ) action barrel and gathering the rest , I just looked /decided the past few days to go the Kollmorgen 4x Direction