Ok, here is the deal. I am trying to decide on which .308 AR style rifle to get. I have it narrowed down to three, the PWS MK216, the POF .308, or the Sig Sauer 716. Here are the basic economics of it. I have a smoking deal on the Sig-- $1600, I can get the PWS for around $2300 or the POF around $2499. I have spent so much time reading that I am about ready to puke. As such, I turn to the wisdom of the board. Are the PWS and the POF worth the extra money over the sig 716? Unfortunately, I live in Nazi Jersey, as such I am so limited on what I can get. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
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1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
- Thread starter pnorris
- Start date
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
I can't speak for the PWS but I can say without a doubt that the POF P308 is worth the extra money over a Sig. Oh, and you can pick one up on Gunbroker for less than what you mentioned.
I can't speak for the PWS but I can say without a doubt that the POF P308 is worth the extra money over a Sig. Oh, and you can pick one up on Gunbroker for less than what you mentioned.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
I'm with Killshot, the POF is worth the extra money over a Sig. Sigs are not made with Rock Creek barrels. We both own POF's and are very happy with them.
The PWS is cool and I like their rail system. Having never fired one I can't say anything other than the ones I've handled SEEMED worth the money. I do know this about them; they will not run as clean as POF's short stroke piston system, especially with a can if you're planning that route. The PWS long stroke piston system allows about as much blow back into the action as a DI system: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=78513
I'm with Killshot, the POF is worth the extra money over a Sig. Sigs are not made with Rock Creek barrels. We both own POF's and are very happy with them.
The PWS is cool and I like their rail system. Having never fired one I can't say anything other than the ones I've handled SEEMED worth the money. I do know this about them; they will not run as clean as POF's short stroke piston system, especially with a can if you're planning that route. The PWS long stroke piston system allows about as much blow back into the action as a DI system: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=78513
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
LWRC REPR, Base Model. Check it out
Failing that, I'd say the PWS. No preposterous heavy front rail that raises the rail height, and Sig is locked in a lawsuit with LWRC for copying their piston design (and releasing their poor imitation on top of that.)
LWRC REPR, Base Model. Check it out
Failing that, I'd say the PWS. No preposterous heavy front rail that raises the rail height, and Sig is locked in a lawsuit with LWRC for copying their piston design (and releasing their poor imitation on top of that.)
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
POF.
What do I win?
When I can outshoot either of my 2 POF 308's, I will be a very happy shooter.
POF.
What do I win?
When I can outshoot either of my 2 POF 308's, I will be a very happy shooter.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
I would go for a GAP 10, but out of your list...POF.
I would go for a GAP 10, but out of your list...POF.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
Here's a POF on Gunbroker and it's NIB for $2,425.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276324269
Here's a POF on Gunbroker and it's NIB for $2,425.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276324269
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go for a GAP 10, but out of your list...POF.</div></div>
If you'll notice, the models he has mentioned are all piston rifles. For an impingement rifle, I would also purchase the GAP-10.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go for a GAP 10, but out of your list...POF.</div></div>
If you'll notice, the models he has mentioned are all piston rifles. For an impingement rifle, I would also purchase the GAP-10.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
Yep, go POF. I have a Hogan which is the same as a POF except my barrel is 18." POF doesn't have 18" barrel selection but the rifles are excellent quality. My rifle tacical rail is getting switched out by Hogan for the Hunter rail this week for free. The customer service is quick and friendly.
Yep, go POF. I have a Hogan which is the same as a POF except my barrel is 18." POF doesn't have 18" barrel selection but the rifles are excellent quality. My rifle tacical rail is getting switched out by Hogan for the Hunter rail this week for free. The customer service is quick and friendly.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
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Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
My brother, dad, an I all just picked up pof 308s recently an needless to say we are all impressed.
My brother, dad, an I all just picked up pof 308s recently an needless to say we are all impressed.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm with Killshot, the POF is worth the extra money over a Sig. Sigs are not made with Rock Creek barrels. We both own POF's and are very happy with them.
The PWS is cool and I like their rail system. Having never fired one I can't say anything other than the ones I've handled SEEMED worth the money. I do know this about them; they will not run as clean as POF's short stroke piston system, especially with a can if you're planning that route. The PWS long stroke piston system allows about as much blow back into the action as a DI system: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=78513
</div></div>
I would respectfully disagree with which carbine runs cleaner. I would like to say that I have only fired the POF P416 and the PWS MK112 with and without cans. The long stroke piston system of the PWS runs much cleaner than the POF, ESPECIALLY with a can. I ran them both back to back with approx 700-750 rds each and hands down the PWS was cleaner. That being said I personally think you cannot go wrong with either the POF or PWS. It all comes down to what you want. The NP3 coating on the POF is outstanding. Best of luck with whatever you choose.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyeDaddy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm with Killshot, the POF is worth the extra money over a Sig. Sigs are not made with Rock Creek barrels. We both own POF's and are very happy with them.
The PWS is cool and I like their rail system. Having never fired one I can't say anything other than the ones I've handled SEEMED worth the money. I do know this about them; they will not run as clean as POF's short stroke piston system, especially with a can if you're planning that route. The PWS long stroke piston system allows about as much blow back into the action as a DI system: http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=173&t=78513
</div></div>
I would respectfully disagree with which carbine runs cleaner. I would like to say that I have only fired the POF P416 and the PWS MK112 with and without cans. The long stroke piston system of the PWS runs much cleaner than the POF, ESPECIALLY with a can. I ran them both back to back with approx 700-750 rds each and hands down the PWS was cleaner. That being said I personally think you cannot go wrong with either the POF or PWS. It all comes down to what you want. The NP3 coating on the POF is outstanding. Best of luck with whatever you choose.
Chris
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
Hmm, can you compare the felt recoil on the PWS vs. the POF. Also, when you say much cleaner what do you mean. I am going back and forth between the POF and the PWS and I just don't know which way to go.
Hmm, can you compare the felt recoil on the PWS vs. the POF. Also, when you say much cleaner what do you mean. I am going back and forth between the POF and the PWS and I just don't know which way to go.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pnorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, can you compare the felt recoil on the PWS vs. the POF. Also, when you say much cleaner what do you mean. I am going back and forth between the POF and the PWS and I just don't know which way to go. </div></div>
The PWS has a smoother recoil impulse. I didn't measure it but I can tell you of the 6 people who fired both carbines the PWS has less perceived felt recoil (both in semi and full auto). When I say much cleaner I mean after firing both and separating the uppers from the lowers the PWS was much cleaner inside. If I wasn't shooting the snot out of both of them to test which one we were going to go with I probably would not go around firing 700+ rounds in a day. That being said I did and the PWS runs cleaner, especially with a can. DMack has a nice thread going on the PWS MK214. I have spoken to him at length and he turned me on the PWS MK112. I spoke with Phoenix PD who runs the POF P416 and they love them. The NP3 coating has really reduced the wear on the internals. PWS has Isonite treated components and DMack has 18000+ rds through his MK114 with very little wear. POF has an adjustable gas system for suppressed/unsuppressed and the PWS does not from the MK112 on up. I think their Diablo does but I'm not sure. DMack is running a thread on that now. Hope that helps. This was 5.56 not .308 so I don't want to compare apples to oranges.
Chris
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pnorris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm, can you compare the felt recoil on the PWS vs. the POF. Also, when you say much cleaner what do you mean. I am going back and forth between the POF and the PWS and I just don't know which way to go. </div></div>
The PWS has a smoother recoil impulse. I didn't measure it but I can tell you of the 6 people who fired both carbines the PWS has less perceived felt recoil (both in semi and full auto). When I say much cleaner I mean after firing both and separating the uppers from the lowers the PWS was much cleaner inside. If I wasn't shooting the snot out of both of them to test which one we were going to go with I probably would not go around firing 700+ rounds in a day. That being said I did and the PWS runs cleaner, especially with a can. DMack has a nice thread going on the PWS MK214. I have spoken to him at length and he turned me on the PWS MK112. I spoke with Phoenix PD who runs the POF P416 and they love them. The NP3 coating has really reduced the wear on the internals. PWS has Isonite treated components and DMack has 18000+ rds through his MK114 with very little wear. POF has an adjustable gas system for suppressed/unsuppressed and the PWS does not from the MK112 on up. I think their Diablo does but I'm not sure. DMack is running a thread on that now. Hope that helps. This was 5.56 not .308 so I don't want to compare apples to oranges.
Chris
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
Thanks Chris. I have been reading so much that I feel like I am about to blow chunks. Jesus, I feel like the mrs. trying to pick out a dress. I guess I will have to go for the old fashioned coin toss.
Thanks Chris. I have been reading so much that I feel like I am about to blow chunks. Jesus, I feel like the mrs. trying to pick out a dress. I guess I will have to go for the old fashioned coin toss.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
I think that there are enough votes in here to say, go with POF. It is one hell of a gun and you will be more than happy.
I think that there are enough votes in here to say, go with POF. It is one hell of a gun and you will be more than happy.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
Also, I just sent my upper receiver back to Hogan to switch my tactical rail for a sniper/hunter rail. I thought the rail would look like the POF Hntr/snpr rail, but it was better! It looks pretty slick and I will post pictures when able.
Also, I just sent my upper receiver back to Hogan to switch my tactical rail for a sniper/hunter rail. I thought the rail would look like the POF Hntr/snpr rail, but it was better! It looks pretty slick and I will post pictures when able.
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
so..now that Colt has released the LE901-16S, I'm wondering how long it will take for all of the major player AR-10 manufacturers to make sure the design will allow swapping out the uppers of the .308 to 5.56
so..now that Colt has released the LE901-16S, I'm wondering how long it will take for all of the major player AR-10 manufacturers to make sure the design will allow swapping out the uppers of the .308 to 5.56
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
I have been an owner of both the 5.56 and .308 POF systems for a few years running now and can say that I am more then happy with how they function.
I've taken the .308 out as far as 1k and had good results. The 5.56 is my main toy at steel targets at any range out to 500 yards.
The recoil impulse is a little more on the POF setup over PWS but the operation design is different between the 2.
POF and PWS have a huge loyal customer base as well as LEO agencies and what not.
The good news is that with all the reading and finding out what you like and don't like you won't feel the wallet shock when you dump the coin on the gun you end up choosing. Its a spend once cry once thing.
If you have the chance I would recommend getting some trigger time behind either rifle and then go from there.
I have been an owner of both the 5.56 and .308 POF systems for a few years running now and can say that I am more then happy with how they function.
I've taken the .308 out as far as 1k and had good results. The 5.56 is my main toy at steel targets at any range out to 500 yards.
The recoil impulse is a little more on the POF setup over PWS but the operation design is different between the 2.
POF and PWS have a huge loyal customer base as well as LEO agencies and what not.
The good news is that with all the reading and finding out what you like and don't like you won't feel the wallet shock when you dump the coin on the gun you end up choosing. Its a spend once cry once thing.
If you have the chance I would recommend getting some trigger time behind either rifle and then go from there.
B
bubbapug1
Guest
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
I had a weak moment and sold a LMT MWS a month ago. To try to compensate I bought a POF with a 20" barrel, which I shot for the first time today. I must say, its everything that the LMT was, same groups, but less recoil, and certainly less mess in the bolt area after shooting. Its also a bit better balance wise, but its not as stout barrel wise at the LMT 16" heavy barrel.
That said, I think they are both fine guns, but I am glad I own the POF over the LMT now...
I had a weak moment and sold a LMT MWS a month ago. To try to compensate I bought a POF with a 20" barrel, which I shot for the first time today. I must say, its everything that the LMT was, same groups, but less recoil, and certainly less mess in the bolt area after shooting. Its also a bit better balance wise, but its not as stout barrel wise at the LMT 16" heavy barrel.
That said, I think they are both fine guns, but I am glad I own the POF over the LMT now...
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go for a GAP 10, but out of your list...POF. </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dlxcupid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go for a GAP 10, but out of your list...POF. </div></div>
+1
Re: 1st AR 10 type rifle Help me pick, Sig, POF or PWS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate are the PWS at long range (they are not free floated)
I know no Gas gun is truly free floated but the PWS is by far the futherest from it </div></div>
dmack has gotten some impressive groups. Especially at 850 yards out of that 14.5 barrel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D.A.T.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate are the PWS at long range (they are not free floated)
I know no Gas gun is truly free floated but the PWS is by far the futherest from it </div></div>
dmack has gotten some impressive groups. Especially at 850 yards out of that 14.5 barrel
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