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200 yards with rimfire
- Thread starter justin amateur
- Start date
Winchester 40 grain copper washed Power Points, 1280 fps, old production
View attachment 7618662
That ain't supposed to happen! Supersonic transition won't let that happen, right?
Well it would seem the transition doesn't affect the lowly 22lr....not at all.
That's as good as I can do with my Lilja and I have to use subsonic match ammo.
Daaaaaaayyyyyyyyuuuuuummmmmm!
The explanation for the unusually good-for-HV ammo results is straightforward, if unexpected. It appears that since the vertical spread is relatively small at 200 yards, the ammo has a relatively small extreme spread. It also must be relatively consistent in its component characteristics, with bullets seated consistently in the casings. In other words, this was a particularly good batch of high velocity .22LR ammo, not cursed with the usual and expected high extreme spread and inconsistent components and assembly.
More interesting and important, Is there such a thing as "supersonic transition" that's supposed to prevent good results?
The ammo in question has a factory-rated MV of 1280 fps and never exceeds "transonic" velocities. In order for projectiles to experience accuracy robbing transonic turbulence, they must slow down from higher velocities into the transonic zone, which is from about 1340 to 890 fps. When they do, they experience transonic turbulence. Depending on the distance, centerfire ammo can be at risk of experiencing this challenge to accuracy. Most high velocity .22LR ammo is not -- unless it's hyper velocity ammo with MVs in excess of about 1340 fps.
It was confirmed in 1990 by Robert McCoy that .22LR ammo with transonic zone velocities (from about 1340 fps to 890 fps) doesn't suffer from the increased pitching and yawing that causes the flight instability associated with bullets slowing down into the transonic zone from considerably greater velocities. See conclusion #5, p.11 in Robert McCoy "AERODYANMIC CHARACTERISTICS OF CALIBER .22 LONG RIFLE MATCH AMMUNITION" https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a229713.pdf
G.... I have tried to put together an explanation for why the 22lr
isn't affected by the transition for a couple of years. I could see
from my results that blaming poor accuracy on hi-v 22lr was incorrect.
I just could not figure out a way to explain why.
Y'er reply was about as clear and concise an explanation as could be asked for.
You can expect it to be quoted every time someone tries to blame
poor accuracy with hi-v 22lr on supersonic transition. Thanks.
isn't affected by the transition for a couple of years. I could see
from my results that blaming poor accuracy on hi-v 22lr was incorrect.
I just could not figure out a way to explain why.
Y'er reply was about as clear and concise an explanation as could be asked for.
You can expect it to be quoted every time someone tries to blame
poor accuracy with hi-v 22lr on supersonic transition. Thanks.
You can expect it to be quoted every time someone tries to blame
poor accuracy with hi-v 22lr on supersonic transition. Thanks.
[/QUOTE]
"C" ome on MAN! R U a JUNKIE !
QUOTE dial 30330 I'll take ya x20 or AR14 JOE !
poor accuracy with hi-v 22lr on supersonic transition. Thanks.
[/QUOTE]
"C" ome on MAN! R U a JUNKIE !
QUOTE dial 30330 I'll take ya x20 or AR14 JOE !
Follow up on that old box Winchester Power Points.
The shooter found the date code debossed into the box...2KD81N
That appears to have been manufactured in April of 1995.
I'd say it held up well, must of been stored properly for 26 year old rimfire.
RD....when someone puts in the time to offer a detailed explanation,
one that covers most of the questions I asked, have to give credit.
No addiction problems on my side of the keyboard, just a touch of OCD with a side of wise-ass.
The shooter found the date code debossed into the box...2KD81N
That appears to have been manufactured in April of 1995.
I'd say it held up well, must of been stored properly for 26 year old rimfire.
RD....when someone puts in the time to offer a detailed explanation,
one that covers most of the questions I asked, have to give credit.
No addiction problems on my side of the keyboard, just a touch of OCD with a side of wise-ass.
Hi Justin, Im curious where I can shoot 200yds in N.E. Florida? Usually I go to Saltwaters.Follow up on that old box Winchester Power Points.
The shooter found the date code debossed into the box...2KD81N
That appears to have been manufactured in April of 1995.
I'd say it held up well, must of been stored properly for 26 year old rimfire.
RD....when someone puts in the time to offer a detailed explanation,
one that covers most of the questions I asked, have to give credit.
No addiction problems on my side of the keyboard, just a touch of OCD with a side of wise-ass.
Jax has one that I know of.
St. Augustine has Saltwater and Ancient City by I-95 and SR 16.
Bunnell has the Flagler County Gun Club.
St. Augustine has Saltwater and Ancient City by I-95 and SR 16.
Bunnell has the Flagler County Gun Club.
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30 miles east of Cambridge right beside I-70. Milemarker 211 is right beside my property.
Topstrap
Thanks to all contributing here. A great body of results. I’ve just got some interest in 10rnd groups at 100 on Canadian Gun Nutz. Nice to see a bigger community stretching things out. I’m shooting a factory barrelled T1X in an ACC. My 200yd results show SK RM and CCISV doing the same as I see here. 7-8” of vertical and 3”-ish of horizontal for 15 rnds. At 100, my CCISV has averaged 1.78” over 44 10rnd groups this year. Fire season has closed my 100+ range for the summer, but I have some Eley Match and Tenex to try when things get wetter.
Question, anyone tried a barrel twist faster than 1:16? I’ve spoken to at least one fellow up here who is running an IBI 1:12 and getting very good results at 200+. He is also super happy with the new SK HV, although it’s almost impossible to find up here.
There are a couple of threads discussing fast twist or 1/9 barrels
Well I thought I did it right and failed. For some reason I thought it was 100 meters.
Well I'll set up targets and re shoot tomorrow.
At 100 meters my little Marlin Model 25 with micro-groove rifling shooting Eley Club. With a 4x "All American Perma-Center" Lyman scope.
Not to bad for a free gun that was set up to shoot decoys off of hahaha. Not a match gun by any means nor was it designed to be a target rifle.
Well I'll set up targets and re shoot tomorrow.
At 100 meters my little Marlin Model 25 with micro-groove rifling shooting Eley Club. With a 4x "All American Perma-Center" Lyman scope.
Not to bad for a free gun that was set up to shoot decoys off of hahaha. Not a match gun by any means nor was it designed to be a target rifle.
Camo, only mistake ya' made was posting in the 200 yard thread.
No worries, ya' can always add it to the 100 yard thread.
www.snipershide.com
No worries, ya' can always add it to the 100 yard thread.
The whole box at 100 yards
Just a thought...what do y'all think would happen, if 5 shot groups went the way of the dodo, and if ya' were going to show off how well ye'r rifle can do at 100 yards, was accomplished by sending all 50 shots at a single aimpoint. I have a feeling it'd pretty much end claims of "sub-moa all day...
www.snipershide.com
Haha thank you. I thought I saw a 100 yard one.Camo, only mistake ya' made was posting in the 200 yard thread.
No worries, ya' can always add it to the 100 yard thread.
The whole box at 100 yards
Just a thought...what do y'all think would happen, if 5 shot groups went the way of the dodo, and if ya' were going to show off how well ye'r rifle can do at 100 yards, was accomplished by sending all 50 shots at a single aimpoint. I have a feeling it'd pretty much end claims of "sub-moa all day...
SK SemiAuto 40 grain 22lr rated 1132 fps
CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod and rear bag
Visual check showed excess lubricant, a few irregular drive bands.
Needed to wipe my fingers after chambering each cartridge.
Very greasy cartridges.
Always a good sign when you can use the 6 inch reference scales.
That's pretty decent results from one of the least expensive SK products.
Less than 50 fps ES.
CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod and rear bag
Visual check showed excess lubricant, a few irregular drive bands.
Needed to wipe my fingers after chambering each cartridge.
Very greasy cartridges.
Always a good sign when you can use the 6 inch reference scales.
That's pretty decent results from one of the least expensive SK products.
Less than 50 fps ES.
SK High Velocity Match 40 grain 22lr rated 1263 fps
CZ 455 Lilja, Sinclair bipod
Visual inspection showed excess lubricant and some dents/dings on the drive bands.
A couple of odd strays that weren't mv related. Likely that drive band damage.
Nope, that ain't match ammo, even if it says so on the box.
ES over 70 fps...just not good enough for precision shooting.
CZ 455 Lilja, Sinclair bipod
Visual inspection showed excess lubricant and some dents/dings on the drive bands.
A couple of odd strays that weren't mv related. Likely that drive band damage.
Nope, that ain't match ammo, even if it says so on the box.
ES over 70 fps...just not good enough for precision shooting.
Hmmm, it must be a problem with your chronograph???SK High Velocity Match 40 grain 22lr rated 1263 fps
CZ 455 Lilja, Sinclair bipod
Visual inspection showed excess lubricant and some dents/dings on the drive bands.
A couple of odd strays that weren't mv related. Likely that drive band damage.
Nope, that ain't match ammo, even if it says so on the box.
ES over 70 fps...just not good enough for precision shooting.
Super short and quick video of my shooting my 10/22 @ 200 yards... Only got 1 shot in before someone walked in and interrupted me. I'll try to get more next time.
oh boy im going to take heat for this. i love rimfire and i love to shoot , i love to shoot all typs of guns. i was in the market for a high end rimfire but was disappointed at ammo results and not impress with some of the high end options. i did reseach on .22 and i can say a .22 fx impact it's unreal accurate
at those distances. but its a bottle gun not a rimfire
at those distances. but its a bottle gun not a rimfire
Blaiz, the FX Impact is capable of consistent accuracy at 200 yards?
Actual experience or just on-line reports?
I can see a pcp air rifle in my future...if it's capable of 200 yard accuracy.
I've been happy with my 22 AirKing 54 springer out to 50 yards.
14 grain pellets can take care of backyard rodents, no problem.
Actual experience or just on-line reports?
I can see a pcp air rifle in my future...if it's capable of 200 yard accuracy.
I've been happy with my 22 AirKing 54 springer out to 50 yards.
14 grain pellets can take care of backyard rodents, no problem.
What scope do you use on the springerBlaiz, the FX Impact is capable of consistent accuracy at 200 yards?
Actual experience or just on-line reports?
I can see a pcp air rifle in my future...if it's capable of 200 yard accuracy.
I've been happy with my 22 AirKing 54 springer out to 50 yards.
14 grain pellets can take care of backyard rodents, no problem.
Old 4-16x CenterPoint AO.
It's handled the springer recoil no problem.
Keep it at 4X for best view when picking off rodents.
Set it at 16X when punching paper at 50 yards.
It's handled the springer recoil no problem.
Keep it at 4X for best view when picking off rodents.
Set it at 16X when punching paper at 50 yards.
Blaiz, the FX Impact is capable of consistent accuracy at 200 yards?
Actual experience or just on-line reports?
I can see a pcp air rifle in my future...if it's capable of 200 yard accuracy.
I've been happy with my 22 AirKing 54 springer out to 50 yards.
14 grain pellets can take care of backyard rodents, no problem.
Here's two 5 shot groups at 200Y with my AGT Uragan 25 cal pcp air rifle. Keep in mind these are only .07 G1 BC 29gr "slugs/swaged lead bullets at 922 fps.
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What's the drop at 200y for that ammo? We have some airgun shooters and our CoF this month is 200y, so I'm curious exactly how high they have to lob the round to get there. We have some baffles at our range to prevent rounds exiting the range, and I've hit these baffles on a standing position with 22LR at 200y dope. For me 22LR is ~7mils, what is it for the air rifle?
I’m not sure what the size of that target is, but if those are four inch boards, that’s unbelievably impressive performance at 200 yards. It would be unbelievably impressive even for rimfire.
Airgun he has is pretty consistent in its muzzle velocity, much more so than good 22 match ammo. My AirArms s410 pcp will group .2 or smaller most of the time indoors at 50 yards with pellets it likes off a rest. I wish my rimfires were as accurate, or rather I wish my rimfire ammo was better in quality.
I practice 10 meter standing offhand in the basement with an old anschutz 2001 ssp and I have learned to trust that misses are my fault, not the ssp ‘s. Every time I think the ssp has something wrong with it and benchrest shoot it, it makes tiny little groups about twice the diameter of the .177 pellets. Top silhouette shooter in our group practices with a feinwerkbau in his basement to keep sharp between rimfire and centerfire matches
But back to rimfire, I was seeing 4”+ vertical spreads at 200 this weekend at a match with the new lot of center-x, and if there was wind active then almost double that.
I practice 10 meter standing offhand in the basement with an old anschutz 2001 ssp and I have learned to trust that misses are my fault, not the ssp ‘s. Every time I think the ssp has something wrong with it and benchrest shoot it, it makes tiny little groups about twice the diameter of the .177 pellets. Top silhouette shooter in our group practices with a feinwerkbau in his basement to keep sharp between rimfire and centerfire matches
But back to rimfire, I was seeing 4”+ vertical spreads at 200 this weekend at a match with the new lot of center-x, and if there was wind active then almost double that.
7 mils of drop is not the vertical climb of the bullet. It is solely the drop from gravity.
If you want to easily see the max ordinate of the round....its physical peak of trajectory....
Go into your solver and set the zero range (normally 25yd or 50yd for most people) to the distance the target is away (in this case 200yds). Then just run your program the same as usual. If you look at the graph section in say Shooter for example.....it will show you max ord.
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My dope is 10.4 mils at 200Y with a 50Y zero. The ES is pretty low, around 10 fps.
The round steel is 15.5" wide.
Here's 5 hits at 175Y on the 2/3 IPSC that I shot this morning, three of them were shot one after the other all in the center. There's one more right there with those three as well, then that low one. BTW there's holes in this steel from an AR from years ago so ignore those.
I had steel at 50Y, 125Y, 150Y, 175Y, and 200Y. I mention this because those two particular hits were shot while engaging each distance twice using holdovers. The dope is on the money I'd say!
5 more at 200Y on the round plate.
Yep those are my hillbilly recliners.
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Some reasons might be, and this is just IMHO.
The bearing surface on these slugs is very short, these slugs are swaged so they are super consistent in weight and dimension and I use a lubricant on them.
Also I have an aftermarket and high quality regulator in the gun.
Other than these there is something about using air that brings ES down, not sure why exactly. Some of my friends have tuned pcp's that have 5-6 fps ES with pellets.
Well it's like handloading ammo, if you get a really good handload, your ES for centerfire is in the 5's. So I would assume with a good regulator it'd be pretty similar.
Nobody is getting an ES that low across a significant sample size in centerfire.
That's my old barn. It's safer shooting onto my own property from out in the forest service rather than from the barn to the FS where I have no backstop if I miss.
That old wood you could sell as a historical society for GANSTER SHOOT OUTS
It's rare I get a morning with no wind....but it does happen
Eley Bullseye Pistol X 40 grain 22lr rated 880 to 959 fps from a pistol
CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod
To avoid having to change the vertical turret from the 100 yard setting
the correction aimpoint is the center of the white bull mounted on the lath above the backer.
Vertical drop puts the point of impact on the cardboard.
A few cartridges had dings on the drive bands
but otherwise decent looking ammo.
ES right at 40 fps, quite good
Except for a few ding related strays, not bad for a less expensive Eley product.
Eley Bullseye Pistol X 40 grain 22lr rated 880 to 959 fps from a pistol
CZ 455 Varmint, Lilja barrel, Sinclair bipod
To avoid having to change the vertical turret from the 100 yard setting
the correction aimpoint is the center of the white bull mounted on the lath above the backer.
Vertical drop puts the point of impact on the cardboard.
A few cartridges had dings on the drive bands
but otherwise decent looking ammo.
ES right at 40 fps, quite good
Except for a few ding related strays, not bad for a less expensive Eley product.
My first shots at 200. First shot held 8 mil, went just off the plate high. Held 7.5 and put the rest into a pretty decent group.
CCI SV, stock 10/22 with a ohhunt 4-14 scope.
CCI SV, stock 10/22 with a ohhunt 4-14 scope.
308, this 455 reciever doesn't have a 25 moa rail.
Mueller 8-32x44 target reticle doesn't have the vertical adjustment range.
Instead of worrying about swapping rifles or adjusting turret for vertical,
I carry a tool that allows me to test ammo at 200 yards when sighted zero for 50 or 100 yards
without any fuss, or turret adjustment. That way any of my rigs can be used at 200
simply by adjusting focus/parallax. That height adjusted aimpoint is handy.
Anyone can shoot 200 yards for testing, without needing to mess up their existing settings.
Mueller 8-32x44 target reticle doesn't have the vertical adjustment range.
Instead of worrying about swapping rifles or adjusting turret for vertical,
I carry a tool that allows me to test ammo at 200 yards when sighted zero for 50 or 100 yards
without any fuss, or turret adjustment. That way any of my rigs can be used at 200
simply by adjusting focus/parallax. That height adjusted aimpoint is handy.
Anyone can shoot 200 yards for testing, without needing to mess up their existing settings.
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@justin amateur do you have any access or data for Aguila 60gr subs ?
My idea is in a vudoo they would perform better because of twist rate, 9 vs 16.
Any ideas or thoughts on this ? @RAVAGE88 have any input ? I don't have easy access to the 60gr here in Australia, however apparently I can order some to try, lead time will be horrible. Worth me trying or not ?
My idea is in a vudoo they would perform better because of twist rate, 9 vs 16.
Any ideas or thoughts on this ? @RAVAGE88 have any input ? I don't have easy access to the 60gr here in Australia, however apparently I can order some to try, lead time will be horrible. Worth me trying or not ?
Yep, tried them, you'll be attempting to put lipstick on a pig.
Low quality bulk cartridges with visible manufacturing defects
along with an undesirable ES. Very sloppy mv's.
I've documented all the rimfire sold here in the US.
Included are all the Aguila varieties.
Alphabetical order with the results linked.
www.rimfirecentral.com
Low quality bulk cartridges with visible manufacturing defects
along with an undesirable ES. Very sloppy mv's.
I've documented all the rimfire sold here in the US.
Included are all the Aguila varieties.
Alphabetical order with the results linked.
50 at 200
I think I've come up with a useful scenario...maybe. :rolleyes: 50 shots at 200 yards, rimfire, whatever setup makes you happy. 22lr, 17 hmr, 22wmr, 17hm2, 17wsm, all brands, all types. Full benchrest setup, bipod, bags or one-piece test rest, it doesn't matter. Grab a chunk of cardboard, about...
www.rimfirecentral.com
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