223 80g ELDM 28"

[kyotekiller25]

I just ordered a Bartlein 29" 8 twist heavy varmint for a LR 223 build. Going to shoot the 75/80g ELDMs as a trainer to my 6 creed and 7-300 Win mag. Building off a Rem 700, Greyboe Renegade with M5 mags so COAL will be 2.55" My goal is to try and get the 75s to 3000-3050 and the 80s to 2900-2950.

With that said, what are some of the better powders for speed, accuracy, and consistency? Say top 3-5 powders? I don't have much faster than H4350, and I'm not super familiar with the 223 and 75-80s. Super excited for this build. Been wanting a LR 223 for quite some time now. Thanks!

 

[NHPiper]

I'm running that bullet out of an 18-in 223AI barrel. I believe it's a hawk Hill barrel.

I really like the newer StaBall Match powder. I'm getting just over 2,900 ft per second as a trued velocity, and I believe it was just over 2,850 at the muzzle. You should have no issues with that powder in your barrel getting the velocity that you want.

It's very temp stable as well.

In my gas gun, I believe my load is 25.1 grains. I started seeing pressure signs as I worked my way up to 25.3, and I believe I went up to 25.7. Accuracy was really good at those higher ranges though. In a bolt gun you may not get the same pressure signs.

That was using lake City brass and CCI 400 primers.

I'd probably start right around 25 grains and work your way up slowly and safely.

Varget is another great option but you won't be getting that same velocity. My dad is running 24.3 or 24.5 grains of varget behind the 80 grain ELD out of a 24-in or 22 in barrel and getting just over 2,750.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I'm running that bullet out of an 18-in 223AI barrel. I believe it's a hawk Hill barrel.

I really like the newer StaBall Match powder. I'm getting just over 2,900 ft per second as a trued velocity, and I believe it was just over 2,850 at the muzzle. You should have no issues with that powder in your barrel getting the velocity that you want.

It's very temp stable as well.

In my gas gun, I believe my load is 25.1 grains. I started seeing pressure signs as I worked my way up to 25.3, and I believe I went up to 25.7. Accuracy was really good at those higher ranges though. In a bolt gun you may not get the same pressure signs.

That was using lake City brass and CCI 400 primers.

I'd probably start right around 25 grains and work your way up slowly and safely.

Varget is another great option but you won't be getting that same velocity. My dad is running 24.3 or 24.5 grains of varget behind the 80 grain ELD out of a 24-in or 22 in barrel and getting just over 2,750.

Thank you for the info.

 

[Lightning8]

I use TAC for my 223 bolt rifle trainer with 75 ELDMs and 80 ELDMs. TAC meters well in a powder drop and is normally in stock.

 

[MTRecon]

My 26" WOA AR15 likes 75gr BTHP with a Nato level charge of Ramshot Tac, CCI450 and LC brass.

I also get great accuracy, but at lower velocity, with BLC2 and 8208XBR.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Thanks guys. How does H4895 stack up?

 

[Lightning8]

Thanks guys. How does H4895 stack up?

Great choice IF you can find it. XBR 8208 another unicorn.

 

[Mauser48]

I'm using 23.5g of 8208 with the 80 eld and getting 2800 out of a 24" barrel. Could probably push it a bit faster if I wanted to. I'm going to try varget as well. I haven't seen 8208 or h4895 in stock in awhile.

 

[b6graham]

my 24" hawk hill slung 75 JLKs at 3000. 24.8 varget. same mdt 2.550" mags but i was seated around 2.48"

 

[kyotekiller25]

Great choice IF you can find it. XBR 8208 another unicorn.

I have 2# of h4895 and 1# of 8208 leftover from my previous 222/223. So that will get me started anyway before I buy a keg of anything. Hoping I can just use h4895 as it's an old standby and I'm familiar with it.

Thanks guys, keep it coming!

 

[Mauser48]

I have 2# of h4895 and 1# of 8208 leftover from my previous 222/223. So that will get me started anyway before I buy a keg of anything. Hoping I can just use h4895 as it's an old standby and I'm familiar with it.

Thanks guys, keep it coming!

I've heard great things about h4895 in 223, just haven't seen it the last couple years.

 

[ARShooter91]

25g Varget gets me 2775fps in a 20.5" Tikka with the 75g eld. 25.3g did really well at 2805fps but I'd imagine brass life will suffer. Primers show some cratering. 2.45oal

 

[ARShooter91]

Went 3 for 5 on a 16" gong at 1265yds

 

[Lightning8]

I have 2# of h4895 and 1# of 8208 leftover from my previous 222/223. So that will get me started anyway before I buy a keg of anything. Hoping I can just use h4895 as it's an old standby and I'm familiar with it.

Thanks guys, keep it coming!

Trade the 3 lbs of unicorn dust for 8 lbs of TAC

 

[tekmann2377]

I love H4895 in the 223 with 75 gr class bullets. It is my favorite in fact. Good velocity and reasonably wide nodes.

I have also used Varget and 2000 MR with good success. I will say that if you can deal with some temperature sensitivity (still not nearly as bad as the older ball powders like BLC-2) you can generate very high velocities with 2000-MR that are difficult to match with any other powder.

 

[223762]

For the 75s and 80s. Varget, RL15 and 8208. If you can find 8208, thats what I’d grab. Very good groups and speeds. Stable in big temp swings.

 

[Fret]

AR Comp worked OK with Berger 77 OTMs so it might be worth a try.

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[kyotekiller25]

AR Comp worked OK with Berger 77 OTMs so it might be worth a try.
View attachment 8350482

View attachment 8350480`View attachment 8350474

Wow, I'd say they definitely shoot. What kinda speeds were you getting with what barrel length?

 

[6brshooter]

I've got a 223 wylde chambered 24" proof steel 7tw, I have 2 loads for it. The first is ramshot tac with 77smk that get loaded on a Dillon 650, it runs right at 3010 fps. Group at 575 or 600yds

The 2nd load is h4895 and 75eldm, it runs 2995 fps. It gets loaded on my single stage and does real well to 1k.

 

[Rob01]

Varget, 8208 and N135 are all good powders. I only use the 75 ELD-M in my rifle for PRS Tac and with it's 27" barrel 2960fps is pretty easy. I load them to 2.470" in my Wylde chamber.

 

[Mauser48]

I've got a 223 wylde chambered 24" proof steel 7tw, I have 2 loads for it. The first is ramshot tac with 77smk that get loaded on a Dillon 650, it runs right at 3010 fps. Group at 575 or 600ydsView attachment 8350818
The 2nd load is h4895 and 75eldm, it runs 2995 fps. It gets loaded on my single stage and does real well to 1k.View attachment 8350820

How much tac are you using? I have a few pounds to try with 77s.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I've got a 223 wylde chambered 24" proof steel 7tw, I have 2 loads for it. The first is ramshot tac with 77smk that get loaded on a Dillon 650, it runs right at 3010 fps. Group at 575 or 600ydsView attachment 8350818
The 2nd load is h4895 and 75eldm, it runs 2995 fps. It gets loaded on my single stage and does real well to 1k.View attachment 8350820

Very nice! Thank you. That H4895 load looks very promising to me! I'm going to start with h4895 and go from there. I'm going to be having a 28" barrel so I should be able to get 3000-3050 pretty easy I would think.

 

[6brshooter]

I've found h4895 always gave me better speed, consistency, and accuracy over varget or 8208 in 223, 6br, and 308. I always found 8208 to spike real bad when you got close to topend. It wouldn't show much pressure and then bam, overpressure signs. Varget and h4895 would show small signs that you were getting close to max.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I've found h4895 always gave me better speed, consistency, and accuracy over varget or 8208 in 223, 6br, and 308. I always found 8208 to spike real bad when you got close to topend. It wouldn't show much pressure and then bam, overpressure signs. Varget and h4895 would show small signs that you were getting close to max.

I found the same with 8208 in the 223 with 52-53g bullets. I have never bought or tried varget in my life. I do like h4895 though. Always been a great powder for accuracy/speed/consistency. I need to find a keg of it. I've been asking around, asking my buddy's if they have any want to sell or trade, and keep an eye open for me haha.

 

[6brshooter]

How much tac are you using? I have a few pounds to try with 77s.

25.9gr, win brass and cci 400. I would not start there as this is a bolt gun load and my freebore is longer(wylde) than standard 223.

 

[Bigwilly556]

22" bartlein 223 Wylde CF M24 75 eld with starline brass, CCI 450, 24.4 varget 2820.

 

[kyotekiller25]

22" bartlein 223 Wylde CF M24 75 eld with starline brass, CCI 450, 24.4 varget 2820. View attachment 8350844

Looks very good also! Only thing is it seems like varget doesn't get the speeds like h4895 does. Seems to shoot every bit as good though!

 

[AR-180]

Thanks guys. How does H4895 stack up?

I have loaded a lot of it for 223 Palma. It’s a fantastic powder.

 

[hlee]

What’s the twist on the barrel? Keep the rpm’s below 300,000 or you risk blowing up the eldms.

 

[kyotekiller25]

What’s the twist on the barrel? Keep the rpm’s below 300,000 or you risk blowing up the eldms.

8...No way a 223 pushes them fast enough to blow up in an 8 twist. Even with a 28" tube at say 3100fps, still only at 280K

 

[hlee]

8...No way a 223 pushes them fast enough to blow up in an 8 twist. Even with a 28" tube at say 3100fps, still only at 280K

I have a 6.5 twist 224 Grendel that will blow them up, which is why I asked.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Gotcha. Yah that's why I didn't want to go with a 7 twist, because it was borderline. Probably could've got away with a 7.5, but with my 28" and the speeds I'll be getting, an 8 should be more than sufficient.

 

[702lineman]

7 twist HH barrel with 223 match reamer with .092 fb. 75eld and 8208xbr with cci450 is getting me 3067 fps out of a 24in barrel.

 

[6brshooter]

Gotcha. Yah that's why I didn't want to go with a 7 twist, because it was borderline. Probably could've got away with a 7.5, but with my 28" and the speeds I'll be getting, an 8 should be more than sufficient.

Will an 8tw be enough to stabilize the 75-80gr eldm at 223 speeds? I'd probably opt for 7.5 just to be safe.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Will an 8tw be enough to stabilize the 75-80gr eldm at 223 speeds? I'd probably opt for 7.5 just to be safe.

It should be just fine. Be spinning around 270K

Plus Hornady says an 8 twist, or faster is what's needed to shoot them. I know everyone likes these 7 and 7.5 twist barrels, but that puts you close to 300K+ I also still want to shoot the 50-53g vmaxs at 3500 or so for the splat factor on the smaller critters. 7 twist at my speeds will probably rip them apart... 8 is a good compromise for what I want and trying to accomplish with 50-80g bullets.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I've been experimenting with an N540/80ELD combo. No chrono data yet but seemed to perform well out to 1100 yards in windy conditions.

 

[padom]

26" 8 twist Mullerworks
0.080 freebore so a tad more than Wylde..

Both have same accuracy, h4895 less powder and is faster



H4895






Varget

 

[kyotekiller25]

26" 8 twist Mullerworks
0.080 freebore so a tad more than Wylde..

Both have same accuracy, h4895 less powder and is faster



H4895






Varget

That is freaking awesome! So how should I tell my smith to cut the chamber? I don't fully understand the .080" freebore. Does that mean it's. 080" from the lands? No, that wouldn't make sense because in your notes it says .015" off the lands.

I'll be using MDT polymer mags and I can get them out to 2.550" I like to be around .010" off the lands to start, and work down from there. So where would I tell him to cut the chamber given my 2.550" length? 2.560" give or take?

Sorry if it's a dumb question. Just trying to better understand because I've never had a custom throat chambered before. Thanks!

 

[Kickin45]

Loving this thread guys. Lots of good info

 

[6brshooter]

Your Smith "should" know freebore of his reamer, and probably (maybe) have a 22cal throat reamer. If his chamber reamer is .040, then he can run throat reamer in an additional .040 to get approximately .080.

 

[padom]

That is freaking awesome! So how should I tell my smith to cut the chamber? I don't fully understand the .080" freebore. Does that mean it's. 080" from the lands? No, that wouldn't make sense because in your notes it says .015" off the lands.

I'll be using MDT polymer mags and I can get them out to 2.550" I like to be around .010" off the lands to start, and work down from there. So where would I tell him to cut the chamber given my 2.550" length? 2.560" give or take?

Sorry if it's a dumb question. Just trying to better understand because I've never had a custom throat chambered before. Thanks!

Reamers have a set freebore.. for example, a 223 Wylde reamer has 0.062" freebore. I've shot 20+ bolt gun barrels cut with a 223 wylde chamber that has 0.062" freebore. Puts a 75 eld touching the lands right around 2.49" COAL... My 223 Rem Match Eachus reamer I had made with 0.080 freebore puts a 75 ELD touching the lands eight around 2.51" COAL..

So, you can see what 223rem reamers your smith has and what their freebore is.. if he doesn't have enough freebore he can always throat it out to whatever freebore you want.

But, I will tell you there is NOTHING wrong with shooting 75 ELD's in a 223 Wylde chamber if that's what he's got. I can post up multiple test targets of some of my 223 wylde bolt guns shooting 75 eld's...


If you go 223 wylde and want to load to 0.010 off the lands your COAL will be around 2.48" coal...

 

[kyotekiller25]

Reamers have a set freebore.. for example, a 223 Wylde reamer has 0.062" freebore. I've shot 20+ bolt gun barrels cut with a 223 wylde chamber that has 0.062" freebore. Puts a 75 eld touching the lands right around 2.49" COAL... My 223 Rem Match Eachus reamer I had made with 0.080 freebore puts a 75 ELD touching the lands eight around 2.51" COAL..

So, you can see what 223rem reamers your smith has and what their freebore is.. if he doesn't have enough freebore he can always throat it out to whatever freebore you want.

But, I will tell you there is NOTHING wrong with shooting 75 ELD's in a 223 Wylde chamber if that's what he's got. I can post up multiple test targets of some of my 223 wylde bolt guns shooting 75 eld's...


If you go 223 wylde and want to load to 0.010 off the lands your COAL will be around 2.48" coal...

Perfect, thank you for the layman terms explanation. I was just going to take him a dummy round made up at 2.550" and tell him I want that length at .010" off the lands. He should know what to do from there I hope.

 

[Mauser48]

I'd probably go with a standard wylde reamer and call it a day.

 

[padom]

Perfect, thank you for the layman terms explanation. I was just going to take him a dummy round made up at 2.550" and tell him I want that length at .010" off the lands. He should know what to do from there I hope.

Why would you want a chamber cut that's your max mag length and still 0.010 off the lands?? That means you can never touch or chase the lands. You want room to tune your load in or out as your lands wear... starting at max mag length doesn't allow you to do that...

Plus, 2.55 COAL is going to be .120 or more freebore. Thats a lot for 75/80s

Just my $0.02 from shooting 50+ 223 barrels over the years

 

[Rob01]

Perfect, thank you for the layman terms explanation. I was just going to take him a dummy round made up at 2.550" and tell him I want that length at .010" off the lands. He should know what to do from there I hope.

No. You don't want to start out loaded at your magazines max length. Then there is no where to go. I load my 75 ELDs at 2.470" at .020" off lands in a Wylde chamber. If you are going to shoot 75/80s then I wouldn't get any longer freebore than the Wylde .062".

 

[kyotekiller25]

Ok, that makes sense. See, this is why I ask questions on here, learn something new everyday! Thank you!

 

[6brshooter]

As Rob mentioned, the .062 wylde freebore works really well with the 75eldm, they're pretty sleek compared to a 77smk. If I was playing with some 85.5 or 90vld, I'd lean towards padoms freebore so as not to eat up case capacity with bullet heel.

 

[6brshooter]

For the lighter bullets, ramshot tac works well and throws great. 50gr vmax in a 17" criterion

 

[padom]

As Rob mentioned, the .062 wylde freebore works really well with the 75eldm, they're pretty sleek compared to a 77smk. If I was playing with some 85.5 or 90vld, I'd lean towards padoms freebore so as not to eat up case capacity with bullet heel.

My reamer was actually designed specifically for shooting 75/80 ELD, 80 Amax and 80smk.. puts the bearing surface/boattail junction right at the neck/shoulder junction for optimal case capacity.

The wylde is slightly lower in the case eating up a little case capacity but nothing terrible..

85.5/90vd/90smk requires more freebore than 0.080". Most guys are shooting those bullets with 0.100-0.120

 

[kyotekiller25]

My reamer was actually designed specifically for shooting 75/80 ELD, 80 Amax and 80smk.. puts the bearing surface/boattail junction right at the neck/shoulder junction for optimal case capacity.

The wylde us slightly lower in the case eating up a little case capacity but nothing terrible..

85.5/90vd/90smk requires more freebore than 0.080". Most guys are shooting those bullets with 0.100-0.120

So if I understand it correctly, your match reamer designed around the 75/80 ELDMs puts you at 2.510" on the lands correct? I feel like I want to be around those same specs, since I can seat out to 2.550" so that gives me .040" of room to chase the lands. Does that sound about right? If all else fails, I could always live with the wylde chamber at 2.490" Thank you!