I ended up at 24.9. Took it to 1400 on steel.
223 80g ELDM 28"
- Thread starter kyotekiller25
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Speed looks about right from my 75 ELD/H4895 testing in multiple 26" barrels. Both 1-8 and 1-7...
You said 3025 with 24" barrel 24.9gr H4895 with 75 ELD. Looks dead on with my results... they say roughly 20-25fps per inch.. 2 more inches and I'm 41fps faster. I'm getting 3066 with 26" 1-8 MW 24.8gr....
This is my 26" Mullerworks 1-8 223 Wylde test target..
I will say though....24.9 is a hot load for sure. I've ran this exact test in 20 or more 223 wylde 26" barrels.... anything over 24.5gr H4895 with 75/80gr pulls is hot in a Wylde chamber...
I just finished 6 more ladders today...Will post all 8 ladders after I get home and compute the data...I can tell you my rifle definitely prefers the 75s over the 80s. Which is ok with me, cause I can't get any speed out of the 80s anyway...
It's looking like IMR/H4895 and the 75s are going to be pretty tits tho...IMR8208XBR and Benchmark also did pretty good. And I was able to get 2900-3000fps from the 75s with all the above powders. 80s are slower than dog shit and I can't seem to break 2850fps with IMR or H4895.
If anyone wants 2 boxes of 80g ELDMs, they're for sale or trade for 75g ELDMs...
It's looking like IMR/H4895 and the 75s are going to be pretty tits tho...IMR8208XBR and Benchmark also did pretty good. And I was able to get 2900-3000fps from the 75s with all the above powders. 80s are slower than dog shit and I can't seem to break 2850fps with IMR or H4895.
If anyone wants 2 boxes of 80g ELDMs, they're for sale or trade for 75g ELDMs...
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Interested to see your ladder with the 8208. I have 200 80s left and am going to probably ditch them for the 80 smk or 75 eld.
This is 8208/75g ELDM since your patiently waiting...I'll get to the others a bit later this evening.
Here are the all the ladders for review. 8 total, with 4 powders (IMR4895/H4895/Benchmark/IMR8208XBR) and 2 bullets (75/80 ELDMs)
I'm just going to concentrate on the 75s from here on out. I have 82 rounds down the barrel now. Will do a light cleaning of the barrel and shoot the remaining 120 virgin cases with IMR4895 and the 75s to get the 200 cases fireformed and barrel broke in. Then I'll start tweaking the loads.
80s
Battery died on the last ladder of the day here. Not a huge deal, 80s shoot like shit and slower than dog shit anyway...
75s
I'm just going to concentrate on the 75s from here on out. I have 82 rounds down the barrel now. Will do a light cleaning of the barrel and shoot the remaining 120 virgin cases with IMR4895 and the 75s to get the 200 cases fireformed and barrel broke in. Then I'll start tweaking the loads.
80s
Battery died on the last ladder of the day here. Not a huge deal, 80s shoot like shit and slower than dog shit anyway...
75s
I run 75s in my 26” 7.5 twist Bartlein with 25.5 grains of Varget at 3040 fps. My ES sometimes is higher than I’d expect but it shoots so damn good even at distance that I just quit caring about the numbers.
That load killed two rock chucks over 1200 yards last spring. I would never have believed that was possible with “just a 223”.
That load killed two rock chucks over 1200 yards last spring. I would never have believed that was possible with “just a 223”.
When I say it shoots, it just flat out shoots. I’m not sure I’ve ever owned a rifle that consistently shoots 10 shot groups in the .5s but this one sure does.
Very nice!!
I think I have a tad bit of room to go up with both of the 4895s and 75s. Once brass is fireformed I'll see what it does up around the 24.5-25g mark. At the end of the day though, I'm going for pure accuracy. If that ends up being 2900fps so be it. An extra 100fps doesn't amount to shit at 1200 on steel anyway but a few more clicks. Doubt a coyote will notice the difference out to 600-700 either.
The Nammo brass holds up to it pretty well. I have several firings on some of it. Wish I would have bought more that 1k of it when Powder Valley had it.
Is Nammo brass military? Never heard of her
Nammo Tactical 5.56mmx45 Nato Brass
Stock up today on Nammo Tactical 5.56mm X 45 unprimed cases from Powder Valley. Available in 100 count boxes. Get top-grade ammunition for reloaders.
www.powdervalley.com
Huh, seems pretty cheap. $21/100 for Lapua brass? That seems too good to be true.I believe they make Lapua brass. It is heavier/ thicker than Lapua.Nammo Tactical 5.56mmx45 Nato Brass
Stock up today on Nammo Tactical 5.56mm X 45 unprimed cases from Powder Valley. Available in 100 count boxes. Get top-grade ammunition for reloaders.
I have 5000 or more NAMMO brass from when PV had it cheap years ago. I use it in my precision AR's. Good stuff. I never shot it in my bolt guns but thats only because I have 100rd boxes of Lapua 223 stacked deep on the shelves back when I was buying it for $55/100 blue box.
Nammo Group owns/runs Nammo Lapua Oy in Finland that makes Lapua brass along with facilities in multiple other Euro countries like Norway.. Its part of the Nammo Group... From what I have read, NT Nammo Tactical 5.56 brass is not the same as Lapua blue box (223 Rem Match) brass. Its more comparable to Lake City... The tolerances are not as tight as Lapua 223 Rem Match. Still excellent stuff and well worth the great deal I got on it years ago when they were running a sale. Looking at my receipts, I paid $130 per 1000 for Nammo brass from PV in 2018 ($13 per 100).
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Still seems like a pretty damn good cheaper alternative to Lapua at 1/3-1/4 of the price anyway.
What's your thoughts on N540 in the 223 with the 75s? Was thinking about picking up a keg from powder valley since H4895 is not available.
For sure. Look, I love and use Lapua because I have a metric ton of it I got cheap before the craze years ago. I stacked it deep. All my 223 bolt gun data is on lapua brass. So easy button for every new 223 barrel.
But, Ive got some data using match prepped Lake City where I sorted out matching headstamp 1x LC brass, weight sorted them into 100ct batches, deburred the flash holes, annealed and shot them in my bolt guns. Shot great also.
These are some OCW 100yd load test targets using the 1xLC match prepped brass I just mentioned in a Shilen SS Select Match 26" bolt gun barrel and as you can see, shooting 0.25 moa groups wasnt hard...
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So I havent done a lot of 8208XBR testing in my bolt guns because it shoots so good in my 20" precision AR's with 77smk. I save it for my AR's because I dont need it in my bolt guns with how good both H4895 and Varget shoot. But, I do have a few test targets with 75 BTHP's and 70 RDF's in one of my 26" 1-7 Shilen Select Match bolt gun barrels with 8208.
Looking at the numbers with the 75 BTHP, speed are about 20fps less with 8208 than H4895. So pretty close.
Do you shoot varget much with the 75s? Curious what the velocity difference is between h4895 and varget for that bullet. 8208 and h4895 are unobtanium but varget is very prevalent lately.
Varget is slower all else being equal by about 100fps in my testing of this combo across well over 15 different 26" 223 barrels. Varget is equally as accurate, but needs more powder in the case to achieve same velocities as H4895. That becomes a problem with 223Rem because you can only fit so much powder in these cases before you start crunching...
Here direct comparison on my Mullerworks 1-8 barrel for example:
75 ELD-M
Lapua Brass
205M
2.49" COAL
24.2gr Varget - 2887
24.2gr H4895 - 2993
Anything on N540? Looks to get pretty good velocities from the 75s also on their web site. 2956fps at 25.8g with the 75 ELDMs from a 25" test barrel. With my 28" 3000-3025fps should be pretty attainable.
I also just ordered a drop tube. I found I was crunching/compressing much anything over 23.5g of powder during my ladder tests, which was giving me major trouble with getting consistent seating depths...
I also just ordered a drop tube. I found I was crunching/compressing much anything over 23.5g of powder during my ladder tests, which was giving me major trouble with getting consistent seating depths...
No N540 data. I use a double drop tube on the Area419 powder funnel set...
I don't chase velocity. I find my node and dope is whatever it is. Accuracy over velocity all day for me.
If you want high velocity grab some PP2000
If you want high velocity grab some PP2000
75 ELDs at 2900 is easily attainable with Varget and more than good enough to 1k pretty consistently. Definitely no need to chase velocity.
I mean I get accuracy over velocity and I agree, but there's no reason not to have both, or at least try. Afterall I didn't build this with a 28" barrel to get 24" barrel velocities...I just want 3000fps and 1/4 MOA with the 75s. I don't care what powder does it, as long as I get it.
3000fps should be pretty easy with the 28" barrel. Mine is a 27"and I get 2960 easily with both Varget and 8208.
my 24" hawk hill got 3k with 75 JLKs and 24.8 varget. super accurate. my 26" proof is around also 3k same charge but 75gr Hornady BTHP
3k with a 28" should be cake
Got some more data today. I'm averaging 2710 fps with the 80 eld and 24.4 grains of varget from a 24" barrel.
I sold the rest of the 2.5 boxes of 80s I had to a member on here and went and replaced them with 75s.
Lapua brass also showed up today, so I'm going to get loading with those for the 75s and use the starline 5.56 for the 52g ELDMs/53g VMAXs.
Lapua brass also showed up today, so I'm going to get loading with those for the 75s and use the starline 5.56 for the 52g ELDMs/53g VMAXs.
Got a decent load with 24.7g of N540 and the 75g ELDMs at 2975 fps with an ES of 6 at 10 off the lands. Shooting 1/3 MOA out to 300 yards. Going to do a seating depth test and see if I can't get it to tighten up just a bit more. Going for that 1/4 MOA.
I ran the N540 up to 25.6g at 3085fps but that's about max and hot in my rifle.
After the seating depth testing I'll start making a verified dope chart from 300-1K in 100 yard increments. There's a local 900 yard steel match, PRS style in a couple weeks that I'd like to try and see what I can do with it.
I also got my bolt bushed by Carlsbad on here and it completely took care of my cratering and piercing issue.
I ran the N540 up to 25.6g at 3085fps but that's about max and hot in my rifle.
After the seating depth testing I'll start making a verified dope chart from 300-1K in 100 yard increments. There's a local 900 yard steel match, PRS style in a couple weeks that I'd like to try and see what I can do with it.
I also got my bolt bushed by Carlsbad on here and it completely took care of my cratering and piercing issue.
IMO that is absolutely hammering with great velocity and an incredible ES for a .223. I wouldn’t touch a thing and run the hell out of it.
I use N540 - load for 75's in a 20" and one for 80's in a 26" - I run the first node rather than hot-rodding, both around 24 grains. Both could go 10/10 on a 3" plate @ 465, and on a 10" @ 920, obviously in no wind.
Keep a close eye on your brass. Once I got 75 elds past 3,000 fps with 8208 xbr I had a winchester case head separate after 3 or 4 firings. I was seated long too. You'll start to see a ring about the case web about 3/8" up from the rim. I have found winchester 22 lr ammo and center fire brass suck.
Thanks, I'll take a velocity read on my 80 grain load this weekend, but I don't think she's very fast - it's the first node I found on workup - lost my old notebook when I moved to Texas with lots of data in it...
I also switched to the 75 ELDm from 80Gr.
I am currently at (suppressed)
2820 Average FPS over 27 shots
with first fire lapua brass
Federal 205M primers
set at 1.945 CBTO for .020 off lands and
24.6GR Varget in a 26" proof barrel that now has 125 shots on it.
I was hoping for 2900. I've tested to 24.7gr and dont have pressure but trying to leave space for the blistering heat coming here and i don't really chase velocity too much. I took the rifle to 850 and it's printing well approx 3" at 850 and most vertical dispersion was correlative to the 12.5SD and 44 ES those 27 shots displayed. I'm hoping on second firing on the brass I can tighten up ES/SD. Past 700 hearing/finding hits in heavy mirage is a thing. 700 in is no big deal for audio or visuals.
I put this in a Terminus QC for fun, I never really experimented with 223 and having a great time with it. Did it for the cheaper powder burn and to suffer the wind more and I think the project delivers. I will definitely go with a 28" barrel and order up a fancier one to chase a little more speed down the road but this was reasonable and instantly available suiting the purpose since the range I use it at is 850y.
I compared this to the 25 shots of Nosler 69gr Match which is average 2840 and like 20sd. It was decent but hitting a 6" plate at 850 with it was more like luck, you could really see the different with the eld.
I am currently at (suppressed)
2820 Average FPS over 27 shots
with first fire lapua brass
Federal 205M primers
set at 1.945 CBTO for .020 off lands and
24.6GR Varget in a 26" proof barrel that now has 125 shots on it.
I was hoping for 2900. I've tested to 24.7gr and dont have pressure but trying to leave space for the blistering heat coming here and i don't really chase velocity too much. I took the rifle to 850 and it's printing well approx 3" at 850 and most vertical dispersion was correlative to the 12.5SD and 44 ES those 27 shots displayed. I'm hoping on second firing on the brass I can tighten up ES/SD. Past 700 hearing/finding hits in heavy mirage is a thing. 700 in is no big deal for audio or visuals.
I put this in a Terminus QC for fun, I never really experimented with 223 and having a great time with it. Did it for the cheaper powder burn and to suffer the wind more and I think the project delivers. I will definitely go with a 28" barrel and order up a fancier one to chase a little more speed down the road but this was reasonable and instantly available suiting the purpose since the range I use it at is 850y.
I compared this to the 25 shots of Nosler 69gr Match which is average 2840 and like 20sd. It was decent but hitting a 6" plate at 850 with it was more like luck, you could really see the different with the eld.
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That does seem slow.
Another shooter at the range with a DMR setup recommended N133 in 223 loads. I would have thought it would be too fast for the heavier bullets, but with a 75 BTHP seated at 2.260", I'm getting 2740 with 22.0 grains out of a 20" AR. The primers look good, and single digit ES over the 3 shots I tested. More testing to follow.
I've got a 18" bbl Tikka, 23.8gr Benchmark will get 75bthps to 2750fps and 73eldms to 2780fps.
I tried Varget doing some initial load testing and it was about 200fps slower.
223 with heavies (69-80gr) seems to like some surprisingly fast powders. Even up to 90gr loads Varget doesn't appear to offer the best velocities.
Thanks. Ill have to try another powder sometime so far this thread shows some good recommendations and results!
I saw 3000 with 8208 xbr but be careful. Smoked some crappy winchester brass after a few firings.
The F class guys shooting 223 like H4895 but good luck finding it. Maybe look at AR Comp or N135.
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