224 Valkyrie Bolt Gun Testing/Review

[padom]

With a lot of guys interested in 224V out of a bolt gun, I decided to do some testing. The current reamers out there for AR's have you hitting the lands with 88 ELD-M's around 2.33-2.34... That still has a good bit of bearing surface down in the case below the shoulder/neck junction.

I decided to have Manson make me a reamer to my specs for max case capacity with heavy bullets out of a bolt gun. We dont need to worry about magazine length restrictions in a bolt gun like we do in an AR which makes this project interesting. I designed the reamer to put the boat tail / bearing surface junction just below the shoulder/neck junction of the case. This will allow us to get more powder in the case.

Will be interesting to see how this project turns out.

Im using an MDT 13rd AICS pattern double stack single feed prototype magazine with a max COAL of 2.55" for the testing. On the bench, its feeds my dummy rounds with 88 ELD-M's at 2.40" beautifully.

Test Rifle

Bighorn Origin with 224V bolt head
Triggertech Diamond Flat
MDT ACC
Rugged 3 Port QD Brake
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 4.5-27x56 FFP MIL
Seekins 34MM PMR
Atlas PRS w/Area419 ARCA Mount
Precision Underground Rear 3D Bag
MDT 13rd Prototype Metal Magazine

Components

Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater
Forster Full Length Sizing Die
21st Century TiN mandrel
Starline brass
CCI 450 and Federal 205M
H4895 to start but have many powders to test

Using Hornady OAL Gauge - Distance to Lands

Hornady 88 ELD-M - 2.405"
Berger 90 VLD - 2.445"
Sierra 90 SMK - ???
Sierra 95 SMK - ???

Unfortunately I dont have any 90 or 95 Sierras currently. If someone wants to send me a box of each I will be more than glad to include them in my testing.

 

[padom]

First barrel up for testing is a Keystone Accuracy Green Mountain. Big thanks to Keystone Accuracy for getting this spun up for me so quickly so we can start testing.

26" Green Mountain 416SS Turned 1.25" Blank
Contoured to M24
Savage Small Shank Threads
Muzzle 5/8-24


Rifle assembled and ready for testing. Unfortunetly I sent my Forster Ultra Seater back with some bullets to have them tweak the stem. It was putting a ring in the jacket of 88's. It should be back any day so we can get started.


First up will be load development at 100yds with the 88 ELD-M's then will test at distance. Everything will be shot over the Labradar.











***Added 4/9/19***


I had some 80 ELD-M / CFE223 rounds loaded up for my 224V AR that I used to zero at 100yds before testing anything else. These 80's are jumping a ton because they are loaded for AR mag length. They shot really well for the huge jump.





88 ELD-M H4895 OCW with Virgin brass. Will do a smaller OCW to confirm load with 1x brass then a seating depth test to shrink groups. Will also be testing some different powders like CFE223, RE15 and 8208XBR with the 88's.







90 VLD H4895 OCW with Virgin brass. Will do a smaller OCW to confirm load with 1x brass then a seating depth test to shrink groups.






***Added 4/10/19***

I just dont think H4895 is the ticket for these heavies. Below is seating depth test's with 88 ELD and 90 VLD. The 90 VLD liked touching the lands as usual but still not the accuracy Im looking for from this cartridge.



88 ELD-M 25.1gr H4895 Virgin brass CCI 450 - Seating Depth Test






90 VLD 25.4gr H4895 Virgin brass CCI 450 - Seating Depth Test






***Added 4/19/19***

My opinion still holds true, H4895 is not the powder for heavies out of a bolt gun at least. These loads are seeing pressure with sticky bolt, compressed loads and mediocre accuracy at best. Not what I was looking for out of a bolt gun with this cartridge. They are holding a consistent 0.75moa at all distances which isnt terrible. Just not the accuracy I wanted.


Here is final load confirmation at 100yds with 88 ELD-M with the 2 best seating depths







88 ELD-M 300yds with the 2 best seating depths








88 ELD-M 500yds with the 2 best seating depths










Here is final load confirmation at 100yds with 90 VLD








90 VLD @ 300yds









90 VLD @ 500yds










CFE223 88 ELD-M OCW

I loaded up an OCW with CFE223 and the 88 ELD-M's. Much better accuracy and good speed before the bolt got sticky at 26.9gr. Nice wide node with very consistent POI from 25.5 up to 27.2gr. SD's werent that great otherwise this would be a great combo... Going to do a seating depth test and see how that goes. Will test 90 and 95smk's next and RE17 after that.

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[padom]

Reserved for Bartlein Barrel

Frank is going to try and get me the Bartlein blank in April so we can get the testing done and posted for your guys. Big thanks to Frank and the team over at Bartlein Barrels for contributing to this review!!

 

[260284]

I will be interested in seeing how it compares to my 22BR with the 88gr ELDM. I am almost finished shooting my virgin Lapua brass and will have to tweak my load for the once fired. I loaded up 10 in 1x fired and my velocity was about 45 fps less than the new brass. I am running a 26" Bartlein, so it should be a good comparison.

 

[padom]

I will be interested in seeing how it compares to my 22BR with the 88gr ELDM. I am almost finished shooting my virgin Lapua brass and will have to tweak my load for the once fired. I loaded up 10 in 1x fired and my velocity was about 45 fps less than the new brass. I am running a 26" Bartlein, so it should be a good comparison.

I think barrel life will be the biggest comparison of these 2. How much powder you getting in there with the 88's?? I also like the cheap but nice brass of Starline as well. Testing will be interesting for sure.

 

[260284]

I am using 26.9 gr of H4895 for 3000 fps and SD of 4. I will probably try 27 , 27.1, and 27.2 for my final load. I was keeping it mild as I shot in a Border War match last Saturday and the forecast was for rain.

Funny you mentioned the seating stem putting a ring on your bullets. My Redding seating die did the same. I pulled some bullets with a Hornady collett puller and it left marks on the bullets with the rings. I picked up a micrometer vld stem and loaded some of the pulled bullets to use as sighters for a 400 yard ladder. I am tempted to go back to the old stem.

I shot two 3 shot groups with the pulled bullets and would not have shot the ladder if I had seen how they turned out.

 

[padom]

I am using 26.9 gr of H4895 for 3000 fps and SD of 4. I will probably try 27 , 27.1, and 27.2 for my final load. I was keeping it mild as I shot in a Border War match last Saturday and the forecast was for rain.

Funny you mentioned the seating stem putting a ring on your bullets. My Redding seating die did the same. I pulled some bullets with a Hornady collett puller and it left marks on the bullets with the rings. I picked up a micrometer vld stem and loaded some of the pulled bullets to use as sighters for a 400 yard ladder. I am tempted to go back to the old stem.

I shot two 3 shot groups with the pulled bullets and would not have shot the ladder if I had seen how they turned out.

Oh wow ok. We might be vary close then. Those groups look good. Whats your COAL on those rounds?

 

[260284]

I am at 2.260" COAL. I bought a 22BR Manson reamer with a .050" freebore no neck turning needed. I am using Lapua brass and the standard Redding 22BR dies give me less than .002" neck tension. The 88gr ELDM touches the land at 2.282"

It was a hammer at the match when I did my part. We had 5-14 mph switching winds and targets out to 1034 yards. Trace was easy to spot and so were impacts. We had flashers on a lot of targets, but they were not necessary. I spotted my first shot miss on the 1034 yard target, adjusted my wind hold, and made 3 impacts on the last 3 shots. Oficially placed 12th/64 shooters, but noticed I was given an 8 on a stage that I had a 9 on when I looked at the results on Monday. That would have put me at 9th/64 shooters. I was pretty happy with that as it was my first match with a new build. Had 252 rounds on the barrel before the match.

The MDT 12 round magazines with a modified PR kit hold 13 rounds no problem.

My rifle is the Tikka in the X-Ray.

 

[Xander3Zero]

@260284 is that a ~0.6" group at 402 yards, and the other group too!? Wow!

 

[SAMR]

@260284 is that a ~0.6" group at 402 yards, and the other group too!? Wow!

I always thought that the 224 Valkyrie had real potential, but that is definitely surpassing my expectations.

 

[260284]

@260284 is that a ~0.6" group at 402 yards, and the other group too!? Wow!

.58" and .258" at 402 yards with deformed, pulled bullets. I can live with it.

 

[padom]

I always thought that the 224 Valkyrie had real potential, but that is definitely surpassing my expectations.

He isnt shooting a 224V. It's a 22BR.

 

[260284]

I always thought that the 224 Valkyrie had real potential, but that is definitely surpassing my expectations.

The 6mm BR family has always had amazing accuracy, necking it down to .223 didn't disappoint!

 

[Kadams1563]

Tagged for further reading and watching the progress.

 

[padom]

OP Updated with test targets

 

[Subwrx300]

First barrel up for testing is a Keystone Accuracy Green Mountain. Big thanks to Keystone Accuracy for getting this spun up for me so quickly so we can start testing.

26" Green Mountain 416SS Turned 1.25" Blank
Contoured to M24
Savage Small Shank Threads
Muzzle 5/8-24


Rifle assembled and ready for testing. Unfortunetly I sent my Forster Ultra Seater back with some bullets to have them tweak the stem. It was putting a ring in the jacket of 88's. It should be back any day so we can get started.


First up will be load development at 100yds with the 88 ELD-M's then will test at distance. Everything will be shot over the Labradar.











***Added 4/9/19***


I had some 80 ELD-M / CFE223 rounds loaded up for my 224V AR that I used to zero at 100yds before testing anything else. These 80's are jumping a ton because they are loaded for AR mag length. They shot really well for the huge jump.





88 ELD-M H4895 OCW with Virgin brass. Will do a smaller OCW to confirm load with 1x brass then a seating depth test to shrink groups. Will also be testing some different powders like CFE223, RE15 and 8208XBR with the 88's.







90 VLD H4895 OCW with Virgin brass. Will do a smaller OCW to confirm load with 1x brass then a seating depth test to shrink groups.

For my 224v's the 88s seemed to like being .020-.050 off lands. I'd be really curious how 26.8-27gr h4350 runs in a bolt gun. I'm betting it would be a bit slower than some of the other powders (2800ish) but it's been SUPER consistent in my gas gun.

But it looks like your onto something with the 90 VLD at 25.4. seems like seating depth or slight powder charge test could tighten it up!

Looking forward to the other tests you can run!

 

[padom]

For my 224v's the 88s seemed to like being .020-.050 off lands. I'd be really curious how 26.8-27gr h4350 runs in a bolt gun. I'm betting it would be a bit slower than some of the other powders (2800ish) but it's been SUPER consistent in my gas gun.

Looking forward to the other tests you can run!

What brass? You can fit that much in a case??

 

[Subwrx300]

What brass? You can fit that much in a case??

Hornady and Federal have same fired capacity (31.4?iirc) in my lots. I can get it in but it's compressed. Seated longer would help lower compression quite a bit. In my gasser 26.8 runs at 2740 avg with 8-10sd. It's stayed at .5-.7 with occasional .4s tossed in even past 400yds

 

[padom]

Hornady and Federal have same fired capacity (31.4?iirc) in my lots. I can get it in but it's compressed. Seated longer would help lower compression quite a bit. In my gasser 26.8 runs at 2740 avg with 8-10sd. It's stayed at .5-.7 with occasional .4s tossed in even past 400yds

Yea it looks like they have more case capacity than my Starline. Gonna order some Hornady to test

 

[Subwrx300]

Yea it looks like they have more case capacity than my Starline. Gonna order some Hornady to test

Both have worked interchangeably for loads with same results in my testing. I'm sure there's some lot to lot variation but they've been pretty close between the 3 FC lots and 2 Hornady that I've got. Within .04gr H2O avg.

 

[padom]

Here's some pictures of the testing Monday and the MDT mags Im testing. The rounds fed flawless out of these prototype MDT mags. Not a single hiccup. Very happy with them. I fed both 88 ELD-M at 2.395" COAL and 90 VLD at 2.44" COAL with plenty of room to spare. Big thanks to @MDT_Josh and @MDT_OFFICIAL for sending these over for testing!

 

[Rutter]

Any ides on when those mags going to hit the public?

 

[padom]

Any ides on when those mags going to hit the public?

No

 

[MDT_Josh]

We will have an update this week! Keep your eyes on social media towards the end of the week for more

https://www.facebook.com/MDTTAC21/
https://www.instagram.com/mdttac21/

 

[Rutter]

This is kinda off topic. Yet I have to ask with the .224 being what it is little recoil. Are you guys seeing any advantages to putting on a muzzle brake or is it just being put on out of habit. I’ve been thinking about putting a little basterd on. Just can’t decide how much of an advantage I’d get. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[padom]

This is kinda off topic. Yet I have to ask with the .224 being what it is little recoil. Are you guys seeing any advantages to putting on a muzzle brake or is it just being put on out of habit. I’ve been thinking about putting a little basterd on. Just can’t decide how much of an advantage I’d get. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

You definitely reduce recoil with a brake but its not necessary. I have one on all my guns because its a QD adapter so I can run my can.

 

[padom]

Here's a video demoing the MDT prototype mag. 14rds in the mag. First 4 Im showing how it feeds great working the bolt slowly then 10rds showing it feeding great running the bolt fast. @MDT_Josh

 

[One1Bravo]

Here's a video demoing the MDT prototype mag. 14rds in the mag. First 4 Im showing how it feeds great working the bolt slowly then 10rds showing it feeding great running the bolt fast. @MDT_Josh

Need a few of these!

 

[Subwrx300]

This is kinda off topic. Yet I have to ask with the .224 being what it is little recoil. Are you guys seeing any advantages to putting on a muzzle brake or is it just being put on out of habit. I’ve been thinking about putting a little basterd on. Just can’t decide how much of an advantage I’d get. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

A brake helps quite a bit for spotting trace and limiting muzzle/scope movement post bullet exiting muzzle. I've shot my 224V gasser (26" and not light) with and without a brake...there is a substantial difference in visible movement through scope. Felt recoil is nothing either way, but sight movement is very noticeable without a brake. I'd say movement on 224V without a brake is similar to shooting a 6.5CM with a brake.

For competition PRS style barricade and positional shooting, hunting that requires fast follow-ups or tracking target post shot, a brake or, to lesser extent, suppressor is a must to gain a bit more control post shot.

 

[Rutter]

Thanks guys. I’ve been kicking it around now for about a month. Really didn’t want to buy one the decide it wasn’t worth it and not be able to move it off my shelf. I will try and get one ordered then thanks a bunch.

 

[HayStax]

Following and getting progressively more upset with Q, LLC by the day.

Thanks for sharing all this info!

 

[bgavin]

Nice, I was just researching on mags for a 224. I’m about to start ordering parts for a build.

 

[MDT_Josh]

I would like to note that these magazines will NOT work out of the box for the 224 VLK and have been modified by @padom to work.

 

[Codiekfx400]

I would like to note that these magazines will NOT work out of the box for the 224 VLK and have been modified by @padom to work.

So that is a 6mm br mag modified to work with 224 Valkyrie?

 

[bgavin]

I would like to note that these magazines will NOT work out of the box for the 224 VLK and have been modified by @padom to work.

Will you guys be offering these with the modification in the near future?

 

[padom]

So that is a 6mm br mag modified to work with 224 Valkyrie?

Yes but all I did was bend each feed lip in slightly cause the gap between them was a tad too big and the 224V case would squeeze through and pop out the top. 2sec super easy fix. I did nothing else

 

[padom]

I would like to note that these magazines will NOT work out of the box for the 224 VLK and have been modified by @padom to work.

I guess I misunderstood. I thought you would be offering both of these configs for 6br and 224V based off the feedback testing the prototypes. Sorry folks. The mod is easy either way and takes 2 sec.

Quickest and most accurate way to do it is to get the MPA feedlip tool. Makes doing it very fast and accurate.

 

[MDT_Josh]

Will you guys be offering these with the modification in the near future?

Most likely not unless there is a demand for them big enough that justifies it.

 

[b6graham]

@padom pm sent I've got some 95 SMKs

 

[padom]

OP Updated with Seating Depth Testing

 

[padom]

@padom pm sent I've got some 95 SMKs

Awesome. Ill throw them into the test if you want to send them to me.

 

[bgavin]

With a lot of guys interested in 224V out of a bolt gun, I decided to do some testing. The current reamers out there for AR's have you hitting the lands with 88 ELD-M's around 2.33-2.34... That still has a good bit of bearing surface down in the case below the shoulder/neck junction.

I decided to have Manson make me a reamer to my specs for max case capacity with heavy bullets out of a bolt gun. We dont need to worry about magazine length restrictions in a bolt gun like we do in an AR which makes this project interesting. I designed the reamer to put the boat tail / bearing surface junction just below the shoulder/neck junction of the case. This will allow us to get more powder in the case.

Will be interesting to see how this project turns out.

Im using an MDT 13rd AICS pattern double stack single feed prototype magazine with a max COAL of 2.55" for the testing. On the bench, its feeds my dummy rounds with 88 ELD-M's at 2.40" beautifully.

Test Rifle

Bighorn Origin with 224V bolt head
Triggertech Diamond Flat
MDT ACC
Rugged 3 Port QD Brake
Vortex Razor HD Gen2 4.5-27x56 FFP MIL
Seekins 34MM PMR
Atlas PRS w/Area419 ARCA Mount
Precision Underground Rear 3D Bag
MDT 13rd Prototype Metal Magazine

Components

Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater
Forster Full Length Sizing Die
21st Century TiN mandrel
Starline brass
CCI 450 and Federal 205M
H4895 to start but have many powders to test

Using Hornady OAL Gauge - Distance to Lands

Hornady 88 ELD-M - 2.405"
Berger 90 VLD - 2.445"
Sierra 90 SMK - ???
Sierra 95 SMK - ???

Unfortunately I dont have any 90 or 95 Sierras currently. If someone wants to send me a box of each I will be more than glad to include them in my testing.

Thanks for the time you put in this review. I’ve been going back and forth on 224

I mentioned earlier I was planning a build and am going with a origin and a gm from keystone. I will be shooting factory ammo though. I just don’t have the time to load for 2 calibers.

How do you like the origin and thoughts on this set up with factory hornady 88 eldm?

Thanks

 

[padom]

Thanks for the time you put in this review. I’ve been going back and forth on 224

I mentioned earlier I was planning a build and am going with a origin and a gm from keystone. I will be shooting factory ammo though. I just don’t have the time to load for 2 calibers.

How do you like the origin and thoughts on this set up with factory hornady 88 eldm?

Thanks

Origin is awesome. Very nice. No issues. Excellent value for the price. I dont shoot factory ammo so cant help you there.

 

[Subwrx300]

Origin is awesome. Very nice. No issues. Excellent value for the price. I dont shoot factory ammo so cant help you there.

Dom, it wouldn't be a bad idea to run some factory 88s though it. It could show whether the 88s are still iffy from factory. Would be really good reference for some of the guys coming from gas gun builds.

 

[padom]

Dom, it wouldn't be a bad idea to run some factory 88s though it. It could show whether the 88s are still iffy from factory. Would be really good reference for some of the guys coming from gas gun builds.

If someone wants to send factory ammo I'll test it.

 

[mercracing]

Dom, it wouldn't be a bad idea to run some factory 88s though it. It could show whether the 88s are still iffy from factory. Would be really good reference for some of the guys coming from gas gun builds.

I run factory 88s through my Origin with a Criterion barrel. Less then 1/2” at 100 without trying too hard. I settled on these because the 90s wouldn’t chamber if I just tossed one in.

 

[padom]

I run factory 88s through my Origin with a Criterion barrel. Less then 1/2” at 100 without trying too hard. I settled on these because the 90s wouldn’t chamber if I just tossed one in.

What powder are you using?

 

[padom]

Big thank you to @bgavin who is sending over Federal 75gr and Hornady 88 ELD-M factory ammo for the test. Will shoot a 5x5 at 100yds, 2x5 @ 300yds and 2x5 @ 500yds with both types of ammo for those of you that want to see how factory ammo shoots.

 

[padom]

OP updated with more testing at distance and new OCW with CFE223 / 88ELD-M

 

[padom]

CFE223 88 ELD-M OCW

I loaded up an OCW with CFE223 and the 88 ELD-M's. Much better accuracy and good speed before the bolt got sticky at 26.9gr. Nice wide node with very consistent POI from 25.5 up to 27.2gr. SD's werent that great otherwise this would be a great combo... Going to do a seating depth test and see how that goes. Will test 90 and 95smk's next and RE17 after that.