.224 Valkyrie

[Jackomason]

Maybe 223 AI or something like that is the way then...

yeah, i hate to say it but i agree with the others. and Im getting insane accuracy. although my velocities are no better than 223 AI or even just 223. my 88gr Eldm are at 2750fps out of a 26" tube. I dont know enough about barrel making/metallurgy but it seems like barrels are made for the operating range of a 223/5.56. Im so close to the next node but its just too much pressure.

edit: 80.5 full bores and 88 eldm both shoot amazing from 2700-2750, makes me want to try the 95gr smk in that range. but nows not the time for experiments. also I think ive shot 500 rounds of testing (ish) but that was more for myself than it was to develop the perfect load.

 

[B_w.]

My Valk seems to like the 80g elds under 24.95g 4895. Sends them just a touch under 3000fps. Nuke 2.0 with rock creek 1/7. .025 off. Only taken it to 800m so far bit pleased with the results. .110 Freebore.

 

[NCHillbilly]

My Valk seems to like the 80g elds under 24.95g 4895. Sends them just a touch under 3000fps. Nuke 2.0 with rock creek 1/7. .025 off. Only taken it to 800m so far bit pleased with the results. .110 Freebore.

Is yours a bolt or gas gun? What length barrel?

 

[B_w.]

Is yours a bolt or gas gun? What length barrel?

Bolt. 26.

 

[opeagle]

I have a 24in AR with a 1/7 twist.

Anyone used IMR 4350 with 88 grain ELDM’s?

 

[KellyRC]

I have not had luck with the 88 ELD-M's (AR based - tips break during feed cycle) nor have I tried IMR4350, but the 90SMK's with 25.4gr. H4350 are an awesome precision load for me. Of note is that I have the front of the magazine cut out so the 90SMK's are seated with a COAL of 2.340".

 

[JM4590]

Anyone have any luck with BLC-2? How bout some 90 GR A-Tips?

 

[DacianMH]

I have not had luck with the 88 ELD-M's (AR based - tips break during feed cycle) nor have I tried IMR4350, but the 90SMK's with 25.4gr. H4350 are an awesome precision load for me. Of note is that I have the front of the magazine cut out so the 90SMK's are seated with a COAL of 2.340".

Try these;

88gr ELDM, 26gr R17, FCbrass annealed, F205M, 2.270” Coal (1.717” BtO)

88gr ELDM, 23.6gr Varget, FCbrass annealed,F205M, 2.270” Coal (1.717” BtO)

90gr SMK, 23.6gr Varget, FCbrass annealed, F205M, 2.3” Coal (1.8” BtO)

90gr SMK, 23.6gr Varget, Hornady brass, CCI400, 1.81” BtO

All of these loads have shot around the .4” to .8” mark @ 100y from my 22” 6.5t barrel. Occasionally I’d get a flyer and that might be several things there I haven’t been able to pin down but I suspect it might be variance in brass and I haven’t weight sorted any of the brass yet but I think I’ll check it out here soon enough.

 

[TKellogg]

My AR with a 24” 6.5 twist barrel likes Seirra 95 SMK’s over 23 grains varget at 2.260 COAL

 

[DacianMH]

My AR with a 24” 6.5 twist barrel likes Seirra 95 SMK’s over 23 grains varget at 2.260 COAL

Excellent grouping!

 

[ghuff]

Has anyone tried using H322? I wanted to see if it works with 60gr vmax bullets. No load out there from what I can see.

 

[PA Valkyrie]

Last month I gave up on the Valkyrie, after almost 3 years of constant and expensive fiddling with it. I was shooting an AR-platform with a 24" 1:6.5T bull barrel. Honestly, it showed some promise...especially with the Hornady 88gr ELDM's. The best load for them was 25.3gr Alliant PP2000-MR with a CCI BR-4 primer, OAL 2.260". I recorded an 0.315" group with that formula at 100 yds, but it wasn't consistent. Temperature sensitivity? Bore condition? Alignment of the moon & planets? Hell - I don't know what affected it, but it just wasn't reliable. I know I'm an old fart, but I can still shoot well with all my other rifles. So I pulled the Val barrel, put it on the shelf, and replaced it with a 24" Varmint HB in .223. A new, and hopefully less expensive, journey begins...

 

[DacianMH]

Last month I gave up on the Valkyrie, after almost 3 years of constant and expensive fiddling with it. I was shooting an AR-platform with a 24" 1:6.5T bull barrel. Honestly, it showed some promise...especially with the Hornady 88gr ELDM's. The best load for them was 25.3gr Alliant PP2000-MR with a CCI BR-4 primer, OAL 2.260". I recorded an 0.315" group with that formula at 100 yds, but it wasn't consistent. Temperature sensitivity? Bore condition? Alignment of the moon & planets? Hell - I don't know what affected it, but it just wasn't reliable. I know I'm an old fart, but I can still shoot well with all my other rifles. So I pulled the Val barrel, put it on the shelf, and replaced it with a 24" Varmint HB in .223. A new, and hopefully less expensive, journey begins...

Sometimes that’s what it is. I have had a better experience in a bolt action with a 22”
1/6.5 and 88gr ELDM I’m getting 2768 fps average with a ES of 13 and SD of 5.3 using 27gr of PP2000MR. In the bolt gun it’s less finicky and I anneal after every time I size using an AMP annealer but prior to the AMP I was Salt Bath annealing. I’m currently selling my salt bath setup if anyone is interested PM me. I’ve developed quite a few loads and if anyone needs help I’m always willing to share loads to help keep this cartridge alive. It hasn’t been easy with load development for this cartridge there are definitely easier cartridges. My 6mmGT for example is easy, since the firsts at out it was sub moa. Sorry to hear you’ve given up on it. I’m so vested in it I’ll hold on as long as the loads I’ve produced shoot well and the barrel holds its accuracy. I knew pretty early on that this cartridge wasn’t doing well in the AR platform so I quickly moved over to a Bighorn Origin and it started coming together for me after that. In the bolt gun I can increase the pressure and not wear the primer pockets out and preserve the brass better, and I’m not confined to mag length. I can load to 2.438” but most of the bullets designed for the Valkyrie have shot better at mag length or just a little longer like 2.270”. Annealing has become the second biggest improvement for the Valkyrie. Whether you do it cheaply with a salt bath method or induction. After annealing my SD’s started dropping to single digits in most loads especially in brass that’s been shot 3+ times.

 

[PracticalTactical]

The 224 Valkyrie has always been an intriguing cartridge to me, but it seems to suffer the same problem as the 223/556 it is attempting to improve upon and that is the overall cartridge length, needed for AR mags.

No self-respecting target shooter in the world would intentionally seat the bullet into the donut, yet running heavy projectiles with short COAL ensures bullets are seated well into the donut with the Valkyrie. That creates three basic problems…

The first is that the donut creates neck tension variability and that negatively affects velocity spreads.

The second is that seating bullets deep into the case reduces powder capacity so we hit max pressure too early. Higher velocities are possible with longer COAL.

Third is that a bullet seated deep into the case does not expose the bearing surface so it can be used for alignment so the bullet enters the rifling straight.

On top of that, the case appears to have more powder capacity than a 223/556 yet most of the loads posted in this thread can be replicated with a 223 with a long throat.

I run 24.5 grains of Varget with 88 grain ELD-Ms in my 223 with an OAL of 2.625”, obviously my throat is long enough for that to be possible, yet loads mentioned here are much shorter than that. I get 2900 FPS easy, yet guys do not seem to be coming near that with the 224 Valkyrie.

I would really like to see how the 224 Valkyrie would perform with 88-90 grain bullets seated forward of the neck with an OAL of at least 2.625”

I would also really like to see how necking the Valkyrie up to 6mm with bullets in the 105 grain range seated ahead of the donut would compare to the 6BR. Seems to me they would have very similar case capacity, but the Valkyrie would be longer and not have the magazine feed problems associated with the 6BR.

 

[DacianMH]

The 224 Valkyrie has always been an intriguing cartridge to me, but it seems to suffer the same problem as the 223/556 it is attempting to improve upon and that is the overall cartridge length, needed for AR mags.

No self-respecting target shooter in the world would intentionally seat the bullet into the donut, yet running heavy projectiles with short COAL ensures bullets are seated well into the donut with the Valkyrie. That creates three basic problems…

The first is that the donut creates neck tension variability and that negatively affects velocity spreads.

The second is that seating bullets deep into the case reduces powder capacity so we hit max pressure too early. Higher velocities are possible with longer COAL.

Third is that a bullet seated deep into the case does not expose the bearing surface so it can be used for alignment so the bullet enters the rifling straight.

On top of that, the case appears to have more powder capacity than a 223/556 yet most of the loads posted in this thread can be replicated with a 223 with a long throat.

I run 24.5 grains of Varget with 88 grain ELD-Ms in my 223 with an OAL of 2.625”, obviously my throat is long enough for that to be possible, yet loads mentioned here are much shorter than that. I get 2900 FPS easy, yet guys do not seem to be coming near that with the 224 Valkyrie.

I would really like to see how the 224 Valkyrie would perform with 88-90 grain bullets seated forward of the neck with an OAL of at least 2.625”

I would also really like to see how necking the Valkyrie up to 6mm with bullets in the 105 grain range seated ahead of the donut would compare to the 6BR. Seems to me they would have very similar case capacity, but the Valkyrie would be longer and not have the magazine feed problems associated with the 6BR.

I can’t remember off the top of my head but an 88gr ELDM can’t go much beyond 2.370” when I tried loading out farther. Also the 85.5gr Berger Longrange Hybrid Target is ahead of the “donut” at 2.36” or so.

 

[Jackomason]

On top of that, the case appears to have more powder capacity than a 223/556 yet most of the loads posted in this thread can be replicated with a 223 with a long throat.

I couldn't agree more. I really do like my valk but when people come shoot it and tell me they want one, I just tell them to build a 223 AI.

I have a theory about barrel harmonics but it's something I really dont understand enough to be confident. But all my valk loads that are mild shoot insanly well (2750fps in a 26" and 23.1gr h4895). I can push them but I don't hit a node before pressure signs. And most guys that do get the speed are burning through brass.

If you step up to a 22br (and up) you'll hit the next node easy. Are barrels similar enough that most decent loads in the valk find themselves in this gap? You see the opposite effect with the 6BR and 6.5CM, pretty much grab a gun and a well known load and you'll be OK.

 

[PracticalTactical]

I couldn't agree more. I really do like my valk but when people come shoot it and tell me they want one, I just tell them to build a 223 AI.

I have a theory about barrel harmonics but it's something I really dont understand enough to be confident. But all my valk loads that are mild shoot insanly well (2750fps in a 26" and 23.1gr h4895). I can push them but I don't hit a node before pressure signs. And most guys that do get the speed are burning through brass.

If you step up to a 22br (and up) you'll hit the next node easy. Are barrels similar enough that most decent loads in the valk find themselves in this gap? You see the opposite effect with the 6BR and 6.5CM, pretty much grab a gun and a well known load and you'll be OK.

I'm sure a long throat 224 Valk would outperform a 223 AI in terms of speed, but speed is not always a good answer.

Fast rounds chew up barrel life. So then we migrate to the 6mm, and suddenly barrel life would be great with a 6mm Valk. (with a long throat.)

Kind of like comparing a 6 Creed to a 6.5 Creed. The 6.5 Creed is a perfect balance between powder capacity and bullet weight with good barrel life. The 6 Creed runs too much powder and that shortens barrel life.

As for 224 Valk in an AR15, I'm not a fan. I would be if it was in an AR10 frame set to run heavies seated out far enough, or a bolt gun running AI Mags.

 

[DacianMH]

I couldn't agree more. I really do like my valk but when people come shoot it and tell me they want one, I just tell them to build a 223 AI.

I have a theory about barrel harmonics but it's something I really dont understand enough to be confident. But all my valk loads that are mild shoot insanly well (2750fps in a 26" and 23.1gr h4895). I can push them but I don't hit a node before pressure signs. And most guys that do get the speed are burning through brass.

If you step up to a 22br (and up) you'll hit the next node easy. Are barrels similar enough that most decent loads in the valk find themselves in this gap? You see the opposite effect with the 6BR and 6.5CM, pretty much grab a gun and a well known load and you'll be OK.

In reference to barrel harmonics the only thing that I’ve found to work well for me is the Scott Satterlee method which is 10-12 shot loaded with charges steadily increasing by .1gr per shot and you chronograph it to look for the velocity flat spot. Then I load at that velocity flat spot and confirm. The advantage to this is it’s not dependent on the shooter’s ability, but it does require that you have a chronograph and a lab certified digital scale like the FX-120i for example so that you’re able to confirm it’s within the .1gr.

Now the problem with this is also that your typical powder throwers and even the Hornady Autocharge Pro or other similar units are not as consistent as we’d like to believe. So I use the Hornady Autocharge to get me close then I trickle in. I’m waiting on an Autotrickler V3 to accompany my FX-120i for quicker charging.
I also think that the brass has alot of variance and that’s why I said in my earlier posts that the accuracy started to get better with Federal brass after about 3+ firings. At this point the brass has fully expanded and fireformed and trimmed all at the same measurement. The weights that were much higher than the average would come back down after trimming because these also grew the longest during the fireforming process. I know it sounds strange but it’s an observation of mine.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Ya the scale does make a big difference especially with small powder charges.

In the old days I used a single digit Dillon digital scale and an RCBS chargemaster. Then I upgraded to a 2 decimal place sartorius, then I upgraded to a 3 decimal place Vibra HT series balance. The vibra costs around $1500 USD these days.

Once I got the Vibra I used it t test the one decimal place RCBS and the Dillon... I found the best I could get was a 0.4 grain variation with them. Almost half a grain.

Then I started analyzing the FPS spread per 1/10th of a grain in powder variation. (Keep in mind I am primarily an F Class shooter.)

As an example for 223... with 8o grain SMK and 24.0 grains of varget I got speeds of 2710 FPS

with the same bullet and 24.5 grains of varget I got speeds of 2780 FPS

So 0.5 grains of varget equals 70 FPS velocity difference.

That's 14 FPS per 1/10th grain.

Each kernel of Varget weighs about 0.02 grains or 5 kernels per 1/10th grain. So each kernel of powder variation equals 2.8 FPS velocity spread.

To weigh within 1 kernel of powder you need to be accurate to better than 2 decimal places

If the single digit scale was accurate to 0.4 grains I figure a 2 decimal place scale is probably accurate to 0.04 grains or two kernels of Varget.

The only way I could get better than that was a 3 decimal place scale so I am now confident I can load to half kernel of varget or within 1 Kernel of 8208XBR

While this did not translate to consistent single digit velocity spreads with a 223, I am confident I have controlled one of the most important variables. Velocity spreads are usually single digit, but not always. At such low velocity spreads I'm not sure if I'm testing the accuracy of my loads or the accuracy of my Labradar.

Keep in mind that the accuracy of the scale matters less with larger powder charges and more with smaller powder charges.

 

[RScott]

@FOHA1 no I don't, the lead/freebore in this barrel appears to be quite long. I loaded one to 2.325 and did a test fit and it still had no land impressions on my sharpie coated bullet so I just loaded it to 2.280.

On a different note, I pulled some of my 75 TMJ bullets from Federal AE and replaced them with 75 grain Amax at different lengths and this was the result.

I had some trigger difficulties that I attribute some of the horizontal spread too. My trigger was gunked up and the 34 degrees didn't help matters. This was causing the trigger to be very inconsistent with where the sear would brake. It's been cleaned and lubed now and back to its old self so I will retest 2.300-2.280. Also of note, with the longer seating depths I had less ejector prints on my case heads

I am not sure if you have seen jp enterprise video about 224 Valk Mexican match ammo but he also bought a bunch of the inexpensive 75 gr AE and replaced with a 77 gr bthp with excellent results.

 

[lash]

I am not sure if you have seen jp enterprise video about 224 Valk Mexican match ammo but he also bought a bunch of the inexpensive 75 gr AE and replaced with a 77 gr bthp with excellent results.

Back when 75g AE factory was cheap, it negated the need for anything else inside 600 yards. After that, hand-loaded 77s were better. I bought mine primarily fire mid-long range fun using affordable factory loads.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Just assembled and started dipping my toes into the Valk pond. Will try to sort through all this info.

 

[PorkChop]

Good looking gun.
What you shooting for bullet?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Good looking gun.
What you shooting for bullet?

77g SMK but trying out a few different options.

 

[opeagle]

I am not sure if you have seen jp enterprise video about 224 Valk Mexican match ammo but he also bought a bunch of the inexpensive 75 gr AE and replaced with a 77 gr bthp with excellent results.

I watched that video recently and decided to try something. I pulled the 75’s and replaced them with a 69 grain SMK. I only did a few just to see.

They went 3,100 FPS with pretty good SD’s. I’m not with my notes but accuracy and SD was pretty good.

 

[redwhiteandred]

Hi folks! Long time lurker, but new member here as of today! I was hoping you guys could help me with an issue i am facing:

I built a 224 AR off a sterling TSR (AR15 pattern) receiver. Has a 1:6.5 faxon barrel. Pretty standard stuff.

I used a Hornady COAL gauge and ended up at 2.2850 for COAL to jam, and CBTO to jam is 1.7795.

To start, i backed off 15-thousandths and seated a bullet at 1.7645 CBTO, and chambered the round. I extracted the round and re-measured the seating depth to ogive and it was 5-thousands longer.

So i dialed it down to 1.7635, and had the same result on extraction. This time it was It was 0.007 inches longer to the ogive.
I dialed it down further to 1.7355 and still getting a longer round than what went it.

Is this normal in AR's?
Or is my AR chamber just not broken it yet? (it has maybe 50 rds of factory ammo thru it)... Maybe i haven't cleaned it thoroughly enough?
Am i not backed-off far enough? ((At 1.7355 I have already backed it off 44-thousands from the lands (jam length), and the bullet still getting pulled out a tiny bit on extraction))
Does brand new brass have to be neck-sized?
Should i be crimping? (i really dont want to crimp)
Any thoughts???

My fear is that i am going through all this trouble to get a consistent seating depth, and upon chambering, the bullet is getting caught somewhere... this i imagine will have a detrimental effect on accuracy. (i haven't shot hand-loads yet!)

TLDR: rounds are measuring longer than intended seating depth when chambered and extracted....

PS. there are various marks on the extracted bullet: 1) feed ramp marks, and 2) circumferential scuffing on the bullet very close to where it meets the neck of the case, and further circumferential scuffing near the tip.

EDIT: I suspect the scuffing near the tip is the bullet seating stem
EDIT 2: I am using never-fired Starline brass and 80grain Nosler Custom Competition bullets
EDIT 3: just realized the last post here is from august of this year. I am cross-posting this in a more active thread if that's allowed in these forums..

 

[tctlrld]

Just started looking at reloading 224 Valkyrie and got a bunch of 88gr ELD-Match seconds from Midway.

Looking at the Hornady Reloading Guide app, they show a max load of BL-C(2) at 26.7gr.

Meanwhile, for the 80gr ELD-M they only show 25.4gr of BL-C(2).

Actually, the more I look, they're showing higher max for several powders on the 88gr vs the 80gr.
Kind of makes me not trust any of their data.

Only reason I'm messing with BL-C(2) is because I have an 8 lbs jug I'd like to get rid of.

 

[opeagle]

Umm, it’s only September. While their are more active forums or sections your post is in the right spot.

I have thus far always neck sized new brass. Did you measure the ID of the Starline? As I recall my last batch would have only been .002 of an interference fit, or what some will call neck tension. I resized it and have, from the top of my head .004.

You will get different opinions on crimping. But start with the ID measurements.

 

[Simonsza1]

I also always resize new brass before loading. I agree to check tension before and after could be a problem. Are you letting the bolt slam shut? With a loose neck that could possibly get the bullet to come out a touch, maybe?

 

[semperfireloading]

I fellas I recently brought back out he Valk to test the new powder Reloder 15.5 from Alliant.
Reloder 15.5 Review

I will say, Reloder 15.5 is ideal for this cartridge, you can achieve very high velocity from it,unless Reloder 16 that fills the case too much. I did find the Reloder 16 similar accuracy however, and similar SD/ES numbers. And the Reloder 16 loads were NOT neck turned. So SD and ES a little higher overall, because of this.

 

[Jackomason]

Figured I'd let the valkyrie boys know first.

It's a lot of $$$ but it'll feed the rifle.

Edit: this is brownells

 

[Highbrass]

I picked up an old Savage 110 in .223 with the intention of converting it to 224 Val.
I got a 22" 1-7 5R from Crown Ridge Barrel Works and swapped out the bolt head.
the first 15 rounds were with Federal 75 Gr. and were nothing short of dismal.
I went home and made up 10 handloads with Federal brass Federal primers 23.5 Gr SWP and 88 Grain Hornady ELDs
My first 5 shots with the handloads was nothing to speak of ...(i forgot about barrel break in)
Then like magic all 5 of the rest went into the same hole!
I have since replicated that feat after changing out the Athalon Aries for a Bushnell Nitro

 

[fdkay]

I picked up an old Savage 110 in .223 with the intention of converting it to 224 Val.
I got a 22" 1-7 5R from Crown Ridge Barrel Works and swapped out the bolt head.
the first 15 rounds were with Federal 75 Gr. and were nothing short of dismal.
I went home and made up 10 handloads with Federal brass Federal primers 23.5 Gr SWP and 88 Grain Hornady ELDs
My first 5 shots with the handloads was nothing to speak of ...(i forgot about barrel break in)
Then like magic all 5 of the rest went into the same hole!
I have since replicated that feat after changing out the Athalon Aries for a Bushnell Nitro

Don't forget, you can load to significantly higher pressures in the bolt action.
Probably another 10,000 psi

 

[DacianMH]

Don't forget, you can load to significantly higher pressures in the bolt action.
Probably another 10,000 psi

Yup…all true but I haven’t seen there be significant accuracy gains from doing it. Best I did w 88gr ELD-M here in the pic.

Another good load was 85.5gr Berger Hybrids with, 27.3gr H4350, 1.820” BtO”, FC(annealed), F205M - 2705 3/4 MOA average.

There are some others too but I’ll have to dig them up.

 

[Highbrass]

I think the load you have on the first target is within 50 or so FPS of my load with Shooters World.
It might be interesting to push it a bit faster, but finding that accuracy node on the first outing.....Golden!

 

[PracticalTactical]

I picked up an old Savage 110 in .223 with the intention of converting it to 224 Val.
I got a 22" 1-7 5R from Crown Ridge Barrel Works and swapped out the bolt head.
the first 15 rounds were with Federal 75 Gr. and were nothing short of dismal.
I went home and made up 10 handloads with Federal brass Federal primers 23.5 Gr SWP and 88 Grain Hornady ELDs
My first 5 shots with the handloads was nothing to speak of ...(i forgot about barrel break in)
Then like magic all 5 of the rest went into the same hole!
I have since replicated that feat after changing out the Athalon Aries for a Bushnell Nitro

How much free bore length do you have in this rifle?
Do you know what your free bore diameter actually is? Not from the reamer, but from a Cerrosafe chamber cast?

The problem with the 224 Valk in the SAMMI spec version is the short COAL, but if you have the barrel chambered with a long tight throat, you can get much more aggressive with speed and improve your accuracy with heavy VLDs.

Here's a sample of a reamer print for the beloved 22 BR,and it's my opinion that the generous free bore length and tight free bore diameter is the reason for the cherished accuracy claims associated with the cartridge. Setup the 224 Valk the exact same way from the neck forward and you should get some outstanding performance.

 

[DacianMH]

Ho much free bore length do you have in this rifle?
Do you know what your free bore diameter actually is? Not from the reamer, but from a Cerrosafe chamber cast?

The problem with the 224 Valk in the SAMMI spec version is the short COAL, but if you have the barrel chambered with a long tight throat, you can get much more aggressive with speed and improve your accuracy with heavy VLDs.

Here's a sample of a reamer print for the beloved 22 BR,and it's my opinion that the generous free bore length and tight free bore diameter is the reason for the cherished accuracy claims associated with the cartridge. Setup the 224 Valk the exact same way from the neck forward and you should get some outstanding performance.

View attachment 7731906

I’m not sure I haven’t taken a cast measurement. All my measurements were done on a Hornady OAL gage. Here’s what I got with bullets I normally use. I’m missing the 88gr ELD-M but it’s shorter than the 80gr ELD-M to the lands I know this much. The 90gr SMK hits the lands around 2.3” for me give or take .06” or so. I’m shooting a Bighorn Origin and I’m using a HS Precision DBM with a COAL of 2.438” total.


75gr ELDM 2.333” Coal to lands PBB 6.5t

80gr ELDM, 2.320” Coal 1.785” BtO PBB 6.5t

78gr Barnes TSX, 2.296” Coal to lands PBB 6.5t

85.5gr Berger Hybrid, 2.366” Coal to lands PBB 6.5t using Hornady OAL gage.

 

[Highbrass]

When I ordered the barrel I actually asked for a bit of freebore added if possible. To be honest I did not follow up or check to see if this was done or not.
At this point it shoots so good I'm not gonna fuck with it.

 

[DacianMH]

When I ordered the barrel I actually asked for a bit of freebore added if possible. To be honest I did not follow up or check to see if this was done or not.
At this point it shoots so good I'm not gonna fuck with it.

I hope they didn’t fulfill that request because the SAAMI reamer is the best one. I’ve had so many Valkyries from 3x Craddock Precisions, a Proof Research, LSA, and the only one I got left is a Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel. The Craddocks and the LSA are top notch if you’re doing a gas gun but I felt the need for a bolt gun because it gives more flexibility in OAL and pressure. The 1st PBB barrel had the wrong twist rate but they took care of me and replaced it gratis. This one is a 1/6.5t 3 groove and it took forever to break in but it finally started shooting sub moa after about 500 rounds in.

 

[PracticalTactical]

I hope they didn’t fulfill that request because the SAAMI reamer is the best one. I’ve had so many Valkyries from 3x Craddock Precisions, a Proof Research, LSA, and the only one I got left is a Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel. The Craddocks and the LSA are top notch if you’re doing a gas gun but I felt the need for a bolt gun because it gives more flexibility in OAL and pressure. The 1st PBB barrel had the wrong twist rate but they took care of me and replaced it gratis. This one is a 1/6.5t 3 groove and it took forever to break in but it finally started shooting sub moa after about 500 rounds in.

There's no way the SAAMI design is the best one. The 224 Valk is designed to run in an AR mag, and to do that you need to run real short COAL.

Ironically the 224 Valk has a larger case capacity than 223, which makes it superior for running heavy VLDs.

But it sucks if the base of the bearing surface needs to be seated deep into the case to respect the 2.260" COAL max specified by SAAMI. This ensures that the base of a 88 gr ELDM is seated about 0.300" into the case, this reduces powder capacity for one thing, but worse yet, it ensures there is no guidance to ensure the bullet enters into the rifling straight.

Anyone who is anyone knows that you just don't do that and expect a good result.

Throat em long and seat em long and you will outperform those who don't.

 

[DacianMH]

There's no way the SAAMI design is the best one. The 224 Valk is designed to run in an AR mag, and to do that you need to run real short COAL.

Ironically the 224 Valk has a larger case capacity than 223, which makes it superior for running heavy VLDs.

But it sucks if the base of the bearing surface needs to be seated deep into the case to respect the 2.260" COAL max specified by SAAMI. This ensures that the base of a 88 gr ELDM is seated about 0.300" into the case, this reduces powder capacity for one thing, but worse yet, it ensures there is no guidance to ensure the bullet enters into the rifling straight.

Anyone who is anyone knows that you just don't do that and expect a good result.

Throat em long and seat em long and you will outperform those who don't.

Mine is SAAMI and they’re loaded long as in the boat tail is the one part that protrudes into the case and there’s still distance to the lands. The bullets especially the ELD-M’s don’t shoot well loaded long, I’ve tried them over and over. That’s why I switched to a bolt gun and even then most of your ELDM bullets prefer a jump…don’t believe me? Try it yourself in the meantime here’s some info that might help.

224 Valkyrie

224 Valkyrie loads & reviews

www.natoreloading.com

I have shot thousands of Valkyrie loads from 70gr Nosler RDF’s, 77gr RDF’s, 85gr RDF’s, 80gr Custom Competitions, 75gr Speer Gold Dots, 75gr ELD’s, 80gr ELD’s, 88gr ELD’s, 77gr LRX, 78gr TSX, 80.5gr Berger Fullbores, 85.5gr Berger Hybrids, 90gr SMK, 77gr SMK and all the powders suitable for the Valkyrie and I’ll tell you this much. I’ve even gotten so OCD to even anneal every time using my Annealing Made Perfect MkII, trimmed, chamfer, debur, and even weight sort. Best results I’ve gotten was with FC brass after they’ve been meticulously prepped because they have the most case capacity over the Hornady and Starline brass. You can’t get too close to the lands with any of the heavy secant ojive bullets if you’re looking for accuracy. It has a strange compound throat. By far the best bullets have been the RDF’s in any weight, 80.5gr Berger Fullbores and the 85.5gr Berger Hybrids. Mostly the tangent olives shot well close to the lands. Everything else basically if you thought you developed something good then shoot some more and you’d find out that it was temperamental. I’ve found that the best range of weights for the Valkyrie is in the 69gr to 85gr area. These pics are of 80.5gr Berger Fullbores and 85.5gr Berger Hybrids…and I can get these results repeatedly. Now what I think will be a real game changer is the Alliant 15.5TS that just came out and StaBall 6.5 has been awesome with the 85.5gr Bergers.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Good luck with that bud.

There is no magic that applies to the 224 Valk that does not apply to every other round on the market. Everything in shooting is about balance and proportionality.

100 yard bench rest guys do things that would put you in last place in an F Class match, so advice comes fourth through the lens of ones own experience and personal objectives.

To me a rifle is by definition a long range instrument and should be configured to perform well at extended ranges. That means running the heaviest range of VLD bullets for the caliber.

Talk to anyone in F Class and the concept of long seated bullets and long throats is a well beaten path and absolutely nobody in 1000 yard F Class does it any other way.

You are more than welcome to do it your own way though, just because you like it that way, that's cool, no problem. But neither of us should assume that our way is the only way, or for that matter, the best way. Best today may be surpassed a year from now.

 

[DacianMH]

Good luck with that bud.

There is no magic that applies to the 224 Valk that does not apply to every other round on the market. Everything in shooting is about balance and proportionality.

100 yard bench rest guys do things that would put you in last place in an F Class match, so advice comes fourth through the lens of ones own experience and personal objectives.

To me a rifle is by definition a long range instrument and should be configured to perform well at extended ranges. That means running the heaviest range of VLD bullets for the caliber.

Talk to anyone in F Class and the concept of long seated bullets and long throats is a well beaten path and absolutely nobody in 1000 yard F Class does it any other way.

You are more than welcome to do it your own way though, just because you like it that way, that's cool, no problem. But neither of us should assume that our way is the only way, or for that matter, the best way. Best today may be surpassed a year from now.

I’m not telling anyone what to do, maybe you want to do that for us by the looks of your response…bub. I’m saying this is my personal experience with this particular cartridge. As for the heaviest range of VLD bullets, I’m using the 85.5gr Berger Hybrids loaded at 2.36+ as you may have already read in my above post which actually shot better than the 90gr Berger in my 6.5t barreled bolt gun. My response to Highbrass is based off my experience with a 7 twist and was a conversation between myself and Highbrass. It didn’t make sense for me to recommend the 90’s because it’s marginally stabilized (at least at my elevation of 700 ft ASL). And actually yes there is more to the Valkyrie than many other cartridges making it harder to develop accurate loads for. You mention “balance and proportionality”? You think pushing a 90+ gr bullet from a case not much bigger than the case capacity of a 223 is ideal? Why did the 224 Valkyrie fall to the wayside and now most manufacturers have pulled that cartridge out of their lineup? Why are people migrating to the 6mm ARC…it wasn’t because it’s such an easy cartridge to work with that’s for sure, quite the opposite. Do you load for the 224V? Good luck with what “bub”? Replying to a post with my experience?

 

[Triple D]

Good luck with that bud.

There is no magic that applies to the 224 Valk that does not apply to every other round on the market. Everything in shooting is about balance and proportionality.

To me a rifle is by definition a long range instrument and should be configured to perform well at extended ranges. That means running the heaviest range of VLD bullets for the caliber.

Well, with the 224Valkyrie, I couldn’t push the 90/95’s fast enough to beat out the 80 eld’s from a 24” barrel in wind drift until out past 1100+ yards. At that point, they were pretty even. It’s not just about the weight, it’s about the speed and the BC!!! Similar as with a 130hybrid vs a 150smk in 6.5creed.

 

[DacianMH]

Well, with the 224Valkyrie, I couldn’t push the 90/95’s fast enough to beat out the 80 eld’s from a 24” barrel in wind drift until out past 1100+ yards. At that point, they were pretty even. It’s not just about the weight, it’s about the speed and the BC!!! Similar as with a 130hybrid vs a 150smk in 6.5creed.

My exact same findings.

 

[PracticalTactical]

OK, so how fast can you run the 90s to make such a determination?

I ran 80 grainers in my 223 for about 15 years but haven't even considered using them seriously in the last 5 years.

I run 90 grainers out of my 223 at 2900 FPS and get better than 1/2 MOA accuracy, doing exactly what I suggested earlier in this thread. The 224 Valk has a greater powder capacity and should be able to exceed that with conservative pressures.

F Class guys run 220 grainers out of a 308 Winchester and get 20 shots in a row in a 1/2 MOA target on a calm day.

My feeling is that you are unwittingly contradicting yourselves... You cant get the speed you want because your throats are too short, but you embrace the short throats as some sort of benefit.

 

[Triple D]

What magazine are you feeding the 90’s from?

And what 90’s? The 90smk at 2900 doesn’t beat out the 80 eld in drop or drift at 1000yds when fired from a mag fed valkyrie pushing it at 2975. We’ve fired the 80’s at over 3050 from mag fed 223’s with 26” barrels.

 

[DacianMH]

OK, so how fast can you run the 90s to make such a determination?

I ran 80 grainers in my 223 for about 15 years but haven't even considered using them seriously in the last 5 years.

I run 90 grainers out of my 223 at 2900 FPS and get better than 1/2 MOA accuracy, doing exactly what I suggested earlier in this thread. The 224 Valk has a greater powder capacity and should be able to exceed that with conservative pressures.

F Class guys run 220 grainers out of a 308 Winchester and get 20 shots in a row in a 1/2 MOA target on a calm day.

My feeling is that you are unwittingly contradicting yourselves... You cant get the speed you want because your throats are too short, but you embrace the short throats as some sort of benefit.

So do you load for the 224? Just curious…I’m not going any further into this conversation until you’ve got a dog in this. Well?

 

[DacianMH]

What magazine are you feeding the 90’s from?

And what 90’s? The 90smk at 2900 doesn’t beat out the 80 eld in drop or drift at 1000yds when fired from a mag fed valkyrie pushing it at 2975. We’ve fired the 80’s at over 3050 from mag fed 223’s with 26” barrels.

What cartridge are you getting 2900 from an SMK? Certainly not 224 Valkyrie.

 

[Triple D]

What cartridge are you getting 2900 from an SMK? Certainly not 224 Valkyrie.

I’m not. I was replying to PracticalTactical, using his numbers. Curious if he’s comparing single fed rounds vs mag capable rounds since he’s all about F class. Most of the guys I know running 90’s mag fed didn’t break 2750fps with a 223.