25 Creedmoor

[RNWRKNP]

Guys, just took down our first deer with the 25CM, a good friends son got his first deer with it. Took him down from 610 yards, more about in the hunting thread if your interested click here.

First deer @ 610? That is awesome and congrats to the kid! Also cool to see the project validated? Was thinking of re-barrel/chamber mine to a 6.5-284 but I may have to reconsider with a new bullet available.....

 

[Bear24]

Problems is see is nobody knows anything about the barrel life of these. No high BC hunting bullets, these bullets are made and pointed by Sierra who can’t seem to make a consistent of a bullet as Berger or Hornady .

I have measured too many of these bullets to count, along side of all the other major brands (including the 2 you mentioned above) and the BTO measurements on the 131’s were more consistent than all of them.

 

[5RWill]

Damnit i want one of these. Wish we had stamped brass. I'd go 25x47 considering i already load for 6.5x47 but don't wanna get em mixed. Though i have no creedmoor so that could technically remedy the solution. Man i wish i was out working, i don't have time to do anything anymore but if i was i'd have a 25 cal bartlein on it's way right now. Can already tell you my Tempest 6.5x47 barrel will be replaced with this for sure.

 

[coldboremiracle]

 

[coldboremiracle]

 

[Derek200]

What kind of MV are you getting on the 140’s?

 

[Derek200]

Oh never mind. The pic was 6.5 140’s. Not 25 cal 140’s!! Ooops

 

[Raufoss]

I like the idea but their is no good 25 cal bullet around.

Only having 1 option through only one source that could disappear make it a fun wildcat to play with that.'s it( really wish they do great!)

 

[coldboremiracle]

I like the idea but their is no good 25 cal bullet around

Apparently you didnt read the article, the whole point of this project was to shoot the new Blackjack Ace 131 gr bullet with a BC higher than all but the heaviest 6.5 bullets. You should go read the whole thing.

 

[5RWill]

Apparently you didnt read the article, the whole point of this project was to shoot the new Blackjack Ace 131 gr bullet with a BC higher than all but the heaviest 6.5 bullets. You should go read the whole thing.

I think he's referring to the fact that the only supplier is Blackjack and that until large manufacturers get on board it has the potential to fall to the wayside without a proper backing. Obviously there is a good bullet in the 131 ACE.

Though the prices are there and it's easy as hell to load for. I think it's a great wildcat and would have one if i wasn't in school. Like literally would order a bartlein 25 cal blank tonight.

 

[Temper]

I think he's referring to the fact that the only supplier is Blackjack and that until large manufacturers get on board it has the potential to fall to the wayside without a proper backing. Obviously there is a good bullet in the 131 ACE.

I believe Sierra is making the bullets for Blackjack so there is a large manufacture on board. For something like this I think it's smart to buy most of your bullets upfront anyways, and they are available. Everything else is 6.5 Creedmoor stuff.

 

[MarkLeupold]

I believe Sierra is making the bullets for Blackjack so there is a large manufacture on board. For something like this I think it's smart to buy most of your bullets upfront anyways, and they are available. Everything else is 6.5 Creedmoor stuff.

It is a relatively mainstream manufacturer, but where does Blackjack's priority sit in the line of Sierra's production? If I were them, I'd be handling my own stuff before dealing with anything for someone else. Blackjack does buy a metric assload of bullets at once, but from a production standpoint, they will run out at some point. And if they run out at a time when Sierra is trying to catch up on production of something, who gets hosed? Availability is my primary concern for a 25 cal, so I may just watch how things play out for a while and hop on the train later.

 

[steve123]

It is a relatively mainstream manufacturer, but where does Blackjack's priority sit in the line of Sierra's production? If I were them, I'd be handling my own stuff before dealing with anything for someone else. Blackjack does buy a metric assload of bullets at once, but from a production standpoint, they will run out at some point. And if they run out at a time when Sierra is trying to catch up on production of something, who gets hosed? Availability is my primary concern for a 25 cal, so I may just watch how things play out for a while and hop on the train later.

Like how Tubbs 115 DTACS ran dry years ago, that's why I went to the 105 hybrids back then.

 

[MarkLeupold]

Like how Tubbs 115 DTACS ran dry years ago, that's why I went to the 105 hybrids back then.

Who were the DTAC's made by?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Who were the DTAC's made by?

Lol, Sierra

 

[AHart76]

Should have my barrel in hand Monday, bought for a good price from a guy who had a Bartlein M24 blank then decided to go 6mm. Now I just need to get a reamer and take a short road trip up to my smith. Also got 500 bullets from that guy, will probably order another 500 right off the bat just so I have at least half a barrel life worth!

To Coldbore, what seating die did you use? I have a buddy who highly recommends the Whidden. Just worried about damaging the tip of the bullet since you said you used a 6.5 seater.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Should have my barrel in hand Monday, bought for a good price from a guy who had a Bartlein M24 blank then decided to go 6mm. Now I just need to get a reamer and take a short road trip up to my smith. Also got 500 bullets from that guy, will probably order another 500 right off the bat just so I have at least half a barrel life worth!

To Coldbore, what seating die did you use? I have a buddy who highly recommends the Whidden. Just worried about damaging the tip of the bullet since you said you used a 6.5 seater.

Just a Redding 6.5 creedmoor.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Junior just took down another mulie with the 25 creedmoor/ blackjack Ace. Perfect double lung from 498 yds away, and if that wasn’t good enough, he ran the bolt, kept up with the fleeing deer, and hit him again as he crashed.

 

[Raufoss]

Apparently you didnt read the article, the whole point of this project was to shoot the new Blackjack Ace 131 gr bullet with a BC higher than all but the heaviest 6.5 bullets. You should go read the whole thing.

Dude you are the one that didn't read properly my post... Second paragraph I say their is only one viable option.

Having only one option is not the greatest idea. Especially when it's not sold directly by a large manufacturer.

I don't care if it's Sierra that make it for them, as another member said Tubb have been dry for year with the Dtac and Sierra is the manifacturer. If tubb was having issue imagine a less knowed bunch of dudes..

With all that I also said it's a great wildcat.
But THAT' S it all it is, is another wildcat in decades of wildcat design.

If other bullet manifacturer would jump on the. 25 I'd be all over running a 25 Creed but I don't see it happening ever as first that caliber is not Saami and second the 25 cal is bone dry dead since decades.

I hope I am wrong and As I also said I wish they are going well and continue so to push the 25 cal around to change people mind.

 

[AHart76]

Only way for it to ever catch on is to build one and show the industry there is a viable market for .25 cal technology that is worth the investment. Kudos to Blackjack for being the first to stick their necks out and try it with no real idea if it would even interest people.

I am only 21, I have never shot a .25 cal gun before. The 25-06 has been on the way side since before my time. I am building a 25 Creedmoor because
1. With the 131 Blackjack and modern powders there is no reason why this cartridge can’t perform at distance.
2. After looking at some of the numbers and running them through TRASOL, the .257 diameter bullet does seem to have some benefits that I believe are worth exploring. The only way to get more companies interested is to show support for .25 cal by building one.

But the biggest reason of all...

IT SOUNDED LIKE FUN! I am sure few, if any of the people arguing on this post, compete in a national points race. Even if you do, you would know that caliber selection is not going to make you shoot better. They haven’t developed steel seeking 6mm/.224 bullets yet.

The idea of me being the only guy at my small monthly club matches shooting a .257 bore gun gave me a slight giggle factor. And that is what this is all about. If a few more clicks of a turret at distance is all it takes for me to have a little bigger smile when I pull the trigger, that seems like an easy decision to me!

On top of all that Miles and Logan have been super nice and responsive to all my questions. So as a small family business myself, I am more than happy to help out another small business that seems genuinely passionate about what they do.

LONG LIVE THE .257!! LOL!

 

[coldboremiracle]

I dont buy the argument about one supplier, out of the dozen or so rifles/barrels I shoot, I use one bullet in each one. Whether it be a 175 SMk in my 308’s, or a 75ELDM in my 223’s. One bullet is the best way to ensure consistency, same bullet, same load, same performance every time. Consistency makes us better at predictions. I’m not worried about single bullet providers, I buy enough of them to burn out a barrel, an relax. The only time I ever had an upset was when Hornady decided to discontinue a bullet I was quite fond of, but thats ok, I have an even better option now.

 

[Penatrator]

Swear that this has been a thought of mine for months now and it never made it into my "Google que" lol

It only made sense in my brain and clearly you made it make damn good sense!! Great job on the quarter creedmoor

 

[MarkLeupold]

I dont buy the argument about one supplier, out of the dozen or so rifles/barrels I shoot, I use one bullet in each one. Whether it be a 175 SMk in my 308’s, or a 75ELDM in my 223’s. One bullet is the best way to ensure consistency, same bullet, same load, same performance every time. Consistency makes us better at predictions. I’m not worried about single bullet providers, I buy enough of them to burn out a barrel, an relax. The only time I ever had an upset was when Hornady decided to discontinue a bullet I was quite fond of, but thats ok, I have an even better option now.

I mean, that's all well and good if you have the ability to buy enough components to shoot out a barrel. I'd love to have that ability, and I will at some point, but right now that's not a financially feasible thing for me to do. I do agree with you, if I could do that, I wouldn't be worried about suppliers too much either.

 

[Basher]

I mean, that's all well and good if you have the ability to buy enough components to shoot out a barrel. I'd love to have that ability, and I will at some point, but right now that's not a financially feasible thing for me to do. I do agree with you, if I could do that, I wouldn't be worried about suppliers too much either.

I'm guessing barrel life on something like this is probably around 2K or so, but correct me if I'm wrong. According to BlackJack's website, that looks to be $718 in projectiles plus shipping. Not too unreasonable, to be honest, right about in line with Berger 105 Hybrids in 6mm. A fair bit to pony up at the start, but it seems most guys buy a "barrel's worth" once they find something their rifle likes, to make sure they don't run out before their barrel's gone.

Honestly, I'm intrigued. I already have too many calibers, most of which I'm still not appropriately setup to reload for. And yet I find myself wanting to give these a try, haha. I'd still need a barrel though, so if you add THAT to the equation, it's more like a $1500 investment up front, so I see that being a bit pricey. I'm definitely interested though, so I'm following along!

 

[coldboremiracle]

I see no reason why a 25 Creed would have better barrel life than a 6 Creed.

Really?

 

[Basher]

I see no reason why a 25 Creed would have better barrel life than a 6 Creed.

Well, it IS a larger caliber, but the 6.5CM only manages 2,500-3,000 or so before most see a notable drop-off in velocity, accuracy, or both. The 6CM, from what I can find, gets 1,500-2,000. So sure, let's split the difference and say it'll do 2,000-2,500. Either way, still interested, but I'm gonna wait a bit before I jump in, to see how it shakes out.

 

[AHart76]

I still think everybody over thinks this stuff way too much. Trying to analyze every aspect of everything. Thinking that caliber choice will make or break them. Cost them a match.

If this is something that tickles your fancy, build one and enjoy experimenting with this new cartridge/bore offering. Worse that can happen is you do an early re-barrel with a different caliber/chambering. As Frank says “Barrels are Tires!!” Lol!

If it sounds like more of a hassle then it is worth, then stick to one of the more main stream cartridges.

Different strokes for different fokes. I’m all for discussing things and comparing ideas, but some people on this thread have gotten flat hateful because the rest won’t take their opinion as gospel.

I’m still super pumped to get my blank in hand and order my reamer so my smith can spin up my 25 Creed barrel!

Ordered 300 Alpha 6.5CM SRP brass today. Now just trying to decide if a Whidden die is with the extra money over a Redding!

 

[5RWill]

Ordered 300 Alpha 6.5CM SRP brass today. Now just trying to decide if a Whidden die is with the extra money over a Redding!

I'd go redding personally, never really cared for my 6.5x47 die from Whidden, though sold it to a friend who likes it fine. I will have to go back to them for my 7SS though.

 

[Raufoss]

I dont buy the argument about one supplier, out of the dozen or so rifles/barrels I shoot, I use one bullet in each one. Whether it be a 175 SMk in my 308’s, or a 75ELDM in my 223’s. One bullet is the best way to ensure consistency, same bullet, same load, same performance every time. Consistency makes us better at predictions. I’m not worried about single bullet providers, I buy enough of them to burn out a barrel, an relax. The only time I ever had an upset was when Hornady decided to discontinue a bullet I was quite fond of, but thats ok, I have an even better option now.

Dude you are speaking about 30 cal and 224 come on their is dozen of "high" b.c bullet on both...

25 have nothing properly suited for LR other than the 131 gr..

 

[AHart76]

I'd go redding personally, never really cared for my 6.5x47 die from Whidden, though sold it to a friend who likes it fine. I will have to go back to them for my 7SS though.

Okay, I was leaning that way anyway since I know tons of people use the Redding dies. It would save me about $50.

I talked to Miles about a seating die and he said that he’s had several people have good luck the the basic Hornady 6.5 dies. That’s convenient because I already have a Hornady 6.5 seater with a microjust.

Gonna call JGS today and see about less times for reamer. I’ll then have to make a decision if I want to wait or order a Dave Manson off BJs website.

Barrel and bullets are scheduled for delivery today.(so is my Ultra 7 and 22 takedown cans at my FFL!) so this is coming together prett quick from when I first read into this Wednesday!

 

[coldboremiracle]

Dude you are speaking about 30 cal and 224 come on their is dozen of "high" b.c bullet on both...

25 have nothing properly suited for LR other than the 131 gr..

Ya, Im quite aware. And as I said, I only shoot one bullet per cartridge anyways, so Im fine with just shooting just the Ace.

 

[HoustonB77]

Guys, just took down our first deer with the 25CM, a good friends son got his first deer with it. Took him down from 610 yards, more about in the hunting thread if your interested click here.

Great thread. Have you shot anything at close range with the 131 blackjacks? I wonder if they would hold together on say a 100 yards shot? That would be my only hold up. I do shoot long rang but most of my actual hunting is done from 50 to 300 yards.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Great thread. Have you shot anything at close range with the 131 blackjacks? I wonder if they would hold together on say a 100 yards shot? That would be my only hold up. I do shoot long rang but most of my actual hunting is done from 50 to 300 yards.

Not yet, but season isnt over yet.

 

[TuskenRaider]

I am following this cartridge/bullet for a future rebarrel but I do share the same concerns as other; 1 viable bullet from one supplier. I hope blackjack can keep up with the demand if it takes off.

 

[steve123]

I'm curious how many of those 131's are currently in stock right now and how long of a gap there will be between shipments???

Going to JBM and doing the G7 to G1 conversion, because I'm familiar with G1 more, I get .665 G1 BC for the 131 at 2900 fps, that's a reasonable step up in BC compared to the 6mm - 110 and 115 bullets around .62 G1.

Well, I'll keep watching, 25 cal is appealing in most ways to me.

Sure would like to see Savage small shank prefits, hint.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Anybody ever see what a 90g Winchester prairie dog round does to a coyote out of a 25-06? That alone is worth the price of admission...just sayin. So it only has one long range bullet available, so what? I’m with Coldbore on this one...it’s just a cool friggin round?

 

[Penatrator]

Who were the DTAC's made by?

David tubb makes the dtacs
You can get them coated and un coated as well as rebated or not rebated.
Only rebated bullets I can think of and it's a very clever concept that I can relate to considering some of my best loads were with a flat based bullet in closer where BC didn't matter at all.

 

[Penatrator]

Excuse my gunsmithing ignorance or if it's been asked

But to make a barrel would you just chamber a .25 barrel blank in "creedmoor"

Better question is, is a 6mm and 6.5 cm the same reemer just different blank?

 

[AHart76]

Excuse my gunsmithing ignorance or if it's been asked

But to make a barrel would you just chamber a .25 barrel blank in "creedmoor"

Better question is, is a 6mm and 6.5 cm the same reemer just different blank?

No, unfortunately it does not work like that. Man would that be sweet though! The reamer is cartridge specific, not family specific.

The blank comes with nothing but a .257(or whatever caliber) rifled hole down the middle. The reamer has to cut out everything else, including the are of the chamber where the neck and bullet go.

Neck diameters obviously differ from 6.5-.257-6-.224. So each different Creedmoor has to have its own reamer.

Freebore should probably be explained in there somewhere, but I’m not even sure what that is! Lol!

 

[Penatrator]

No, unfortunately it does not work like that. Man would that be sweet though! The reamer is cartridge specific, not family specific.

The blank comes with nothing but a .257(or whatever caliber) rifled hole down the middle. The reamer has to cut out everything else, including the are of the chamber where the neck and bullet go.

Neck diameters obviously differ from 6.5-.257-6-.224. So each different Creedmoor has to have its own reamer.

Freebore should probably be explained in there somewhere, but I’m not even sure what that is! Lol!

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. I got the short answer by stumbling upon the reamers while looking at the blackjack bullets

But thanks good answer. I never had a custom barrel made from a blank and sure not a wildcatish type cartridge

 

[Penatrator]

Simplest way to explain Freebore is that it's the space between the case neck mouth and where in the bore the rifling starts. That gap at the end of the chamber and the start of the lands is free bore. Having a larger FB allows you to shoot longer bullets without having to shove them down in the case or seating shorter bullets farther out in the neck. Having a shorter FB allows you to shoot lighter bullets while still being able to seat them close to the lands or it also allows you to chase the lands longer without running out of neck or mag length.

Free bore I actually understand so if I would have thunk about it long enough I would have answered my own questions lol

Thanks guys

 

[b6graham]

David tubb makes the dtacs
You can get them coated and un coated as well as rebated or not rebated.
Only rebated bullets I can think of and it's a very clever concept that I can relate to considering some of my best loads were with a flat based bullet in closer where BC didn't matter at all.

Sierra makes them for Tubb. Dont thibk you can get them non rebates anymore as the RBT design is superior for many reasons according to Tubb. He discusses them at length in a podcast

 

[AHart76]

Sierra makes them for Tubb. Dont thibk you can get them non rebates anymore as the RBT design is superior for many reasons according to Tubb. He discusses them at length in a podcast

Wonder how these 131’s would shoot if someone used Tubb’s new tool to put the nose ring on them?

 

[Raufoss]

Wonder how these 131’s would shoot if someone used Tubb’s new tool to put the nose ring on them?

I am curious how would shoot any bullet with the nose ring thing.

 

[b6graham]

I am curious how would shoot any bullet with the nose ring thing.

According to Tubb. The right bullet shape they'll shoot better. Like the split on ELDM tips acts very very similar

 

[AHart76]

I am curious how would shoot any bullet with the nose ring thing.

Listen to The Everday Sniper Podcast. One episode Frank interviews David Tubb and he talks about the math behind it in detail. I can’t remember exactly what he said but it basically made the air move in such a way that it rusuced the effects of variances in the bullet. I believe it also bumped BC a bit too.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Just finished tagging out on the last day of the deer hunt here. The 25 Creedmoor took this handsome little buck down with a quartering at me shot that smoked both lungs.

 

[AHart76]

Just finished tagging out on the last day of the deer hunt here. The 25 Creedmoor took this handsome little buck down with a quartering at me shot that smoked both lungs.

Nice! Congrats! I’m not gonna have my 25CM together for Indiana gun season this year, but I’d be stoked to take one like that with my 6.5! Hopefully next year I can do some scouting and find a good one for the 25!

 

[Kevin.N]

Could anyone measure a loaded round with Alpha 6,5 creed and 6 Creed with the 131 Blackjack loaded?

With alpha brass what you guy use to neck down? A 0.281?

 

[Kevin.N]

Wonder how these 131’s would shoot if someone used Tubb’s new tool to put the nose ring on them?

I'll tell you as soon as I get my tool to make them.