25 Creedmoor

[coldboremiracle]

“I suppose you could say I’ve come full circle, I started this game with a .25 caliber rifle, and after many many years I have a new one. I learned much with that first rifle, a Ruger M77 in 25-06, I still have it, and I dont think I’ll ever get rid of it.

My love for the 1/4 bore was cut short, by the lack of high Ballistic Coefficient bullets. There is a good assortment of 115-120 grain bullets, but many of them peeter out long before my then goal of one thousand yards. So despite claiming many of my first’s, the 25-06 went to the back of the safe.
In the defiance of time, I always had a 1/4” hole in my soul. Turns out that I wasn’t alone, and some folks with impressive math skills finally saddled the long range quarter-horse. Black Jack Bullets is a new manufacturer with a specialty in high BC 25’s.
As soon as I had spoken with Miles and Logan, I was convinced that my old love of the 25 needed to be rekindled. I almost immediately started Operation Quarter Lord, my goal; a .257 rifle that I could build light, and haul all over these Rocky Mountains to take antelope, deer, and even elk.”

Continue reading Operation Quarter Lord

 

[SkyScrapin]

@coldboremiracle Cool project. I always admired the 1/4 bore as well.

What is your DA and what was your come up to 1,000 yards? How about with a 5mph and 10mph wind?

 

[MarkLeupold]

I've watched BlackJack for a little while now, and the .25 cal stuff is pretty great. Their velocities are 3000 fps from a 25 Creed and 2950 (with no pressure) from a .25x47 Lapua. Running the conservative 2950 fps, they're within a tenth mil of the 6mm's in drop and drift (if you're within PRS fps limits), about the same recoil as the 6.5's with more energy delivered on target. I'm very excited for the .25 caliber revamp they've done.

 

[XLR308]

I've watched BlackJack for a little while now, and the .25 cal stuff is pretty great. Their velocities are 3000 fps from a 25 Creed and 2950 (with no pressure) from a .25x47 Lapua. Running the conservative 2950 fps, they're within a tenth mil of the 6mm's in drop and drift (if you're within PRS fps limits), about the same recoil as the 6.5's with more energy delivered on target. I'm very excited for the .25 caliber revamp they've done.

I get and like the appeal of the .25 cal for hunting but not sure I get the comment of more energy on target than a 65 Creedmoor. Maybe I haven't looked at the new bullets listed for the 25 in awhile.

 

[Nortex]

I get and like the appeal of the .25 cal for hunting but not sure I get the comment of more energy on target than a 65 Creedmoor. Maybe I haven't looked at the new bullets listed for the 25 in awhile.

The blackjack 131 has a legit .330 g7 so they are pretty potent.

 

[coldboremiracle]

The blackjack 131 has a legit .330 g7 so they are pretty potent.

In the article I discussed that, I believe their .330 is a bit conservative.

 

[XLR308]

The blackjack 131 has a legit .330 g7 so they are pretty potent.

That sounds like a nice option and I know many have been begging for such bullets for a long time.
Are there many barrel manufacturers onboard to support the 1-7 to 1-7.5" twist they recommend ?

 

[coldboremiracle]

That sounds like a nice option and I know many have been begging for such bullets for a long time.
Are there many barrel manufacturers onboard to support the 1-7 to 1-7.5" twist they recommend ?

blackjack has a bunch in stock from all the good names; rock, lilja, etc.

 

[coldboremiracle]

 

[coldboremiracle]

 

[XLR308]

View attachment 6952287

High speed low drag ?
Looks like they are allready pointed.

 

[MarkLeupold]

I get and like the appeal of the .25 cal for hunting but not sure I get the comment of more energy on target than a 65 Creedmoor. Maybe I haven't looked at the new bullets listed for the 25 in awhile.

Yes, I was referring to the 131 gr ACE bullet. I was honestly surprised to see it was the case. It may just be the "hot, new thing" for some people, but there's some allure to the quarterbore that I like. I'm stocked up on 6.5mm bullets for now, but once my barrel goes, I'll be looking into a 25x47 Lapua.

Blackjack really had their stuff in line before launch. They have a good supply of bullets it looks like, from the get go they had barrels that will stabilize their bullets from some really good manufacturers, and they've got a hunting bullet coming later. They saw a niche market that could be improved/filled, and they prepared well before dropping their product. It was a good market play and I'm glad to see they're having success.

 

[supratt96]

What are you using for brass, necked up 6 Creed or necked down 6.5?

 

[steve123]

The only thing I would like to see is regular full length dies made to work with their reamer that we could buy direct from Blackjack.

At some point I'd like to turn my 40x 308 into a 25 Creed or a 25XC.

 

[coldboremiracle]

What are you using for brass, necked up 6 Creed or necked down 6.5?

Its all in there, Im using Alpha small primer brass.

 

[JMGlasgow]

Tag

 

[benwitt11]

Love the look of those rounds, and the bc on those bullets. Best of luck on the hunt. I look forward to hearing about the terminal performance.

 

[Tex68w]

Interesting! I still love my 257WBY, quarter bores are great!

 

[J McGriddle]

I have wondered why there arent more 25 cal bullets with high BCs

 

[BLKWLFK9]

May have found my next barrel.

 

[sav338lapua]

Mm you guys must not have seen my thread on on 250 savage. Why do anything but load and shoot.
Here is the thread. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/250-savage-again.6893617/
I think you'll be quite surprised.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Just as a question, you mention a bit of pressure issues at the top range.
What if you went with something with a bit more room to run those same bullets in, say perhaps a 6.5 PRC necked down or a 6.5x284 necked down. That might give you enough room to speed things up a bit and have more room to adjust the bullet seating?

 

[Luke]

Good write-up. Thanks for the info!

 

[supercorndogs]

Mm you guys must not have seen my thread on on 250 savage. Why do anything but load and shoot.
Here is the thread. https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/250-savage-again.6893617/
I think you'll be quite surprised.

LOL. I was laughing about the 25 creedmoor, think the it was basically the .250 Savage with a little less taper. It probably feeds better from a mag due to the case taper. I can't decide if I wan t 22 creed or a 22-250AI.

Are the .257 bores easy to get long extruded powders through the necks like a .264 and .308, or are they kind of a pain like .224 and .243?

 

[sav338lapua]

I've never had a problem loading the 250.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I've never had a problem loading the 250.

Ive never had a problem loading 25Creedmoor either, and I can get small primer pocket brass from Alpha and Lapua.

 

[Anzac]

So when resizing you’re just using a 6.5 CM FL bushing die with a ~.286 bushing ?

 

[coldboremiracle]

So when resizing you’re just using a 6.5 CM FL bushing die with a ~.286 bushing ?

In the article it mentions that, I use a .281, but if I did it again, Id probably go .282.

 

[Anzac]

Understood. I thought that may have just been for necking down initially. What is the reamer neck then?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Tonight I shot her out to 1100 yards (+26moa), quite impressive. But not before taking this squirrel’s face off:

 

[coldboremiracle]

Understood. I thought that may have just been for necking down initially. What is the reamer neck then?

Looks like its a .289

 

[kabarNC]

Great thread, thanks alot!

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I know what you're doing with the sizing die but are u also using a 6.5cm seater?

 

[coldboremiracle]

I know what you're doing with the sizing die but are u also using a 6.5cm seater?

Yes

 

[JeffLebowski]

Good article, very interesting.

 

[silhouette]

Yes, I was referring to the 131 gr ACE bullet. I was honestly surprised to see it was the case. It may just be the "hot, new thing" for some people, but there's some allure to the quarterbore that I like. I'm stocked up on 6.5mm bullets for now, but once my barrel goes, I'll be looking into a 25x47 Lapua.

Blackjack really had their stuff in line before launch. They have a good supply of bullets it looks like, from the get go they had barrels that will stabilize their bullets from some really good manufacturers, and they've got a hunting bullet coming later. They saw a niche market that could be improved/filled, and they prepared well before dropping their product. It was a good market play and I'm glad to see they're having success.

I'm also considering a 25x47 when the 6.5 dies and I think 25 cals will be the next fad that everone just has to have.

 

[MarkLeupold]

I'm also considering a 25x47 when the 6.5 dies and I think 25 cals will be the next fad that everone just has to have.

I really don't think it'll be the "next fad." The .25 cal is great, and the new bullets are going to bring them to the modern age, but I don't think you'll pull people from 6.5mm or 6mm. The casual shooters, or newer shooters, are mostly going 6.5 Creedmoor and you're not going to pull them into a wildcat until they get some reloading experience under their belt. Even then, shooters may like the option of factory ammo. The 6mm guys, well you're not going to pull any Dasher shooters, or probably really any BR based case for that matter. They seem to cling to their stubby little rounds for dear life and they don't have the case capacity to push a 131gr pill around, so you probably won't get many of them. The other set of 6mm shooters seem to be either happy with the 6mm, or they're experimenting with the .22 stuff, going even smaller. They don't want the recoil penalty.

That leaves the halfway experienced handloader that either sees the benefits over other cartridges and wants to try, or they have a yearning for the quarterbore that wouldn't be satisfied until now.

You'll pull a few guys from eveywhere, but I don't think it's the "next big thing."

I do think you will have a set of shooters that will be very dedicated to anything .25 caliber, and that's where your market share will reside. I'm happy because I see the benefits, and I think more options is not a bad thing (especially when they fill a niche). As for BlackJack Bullets, I hope your business flourishes and other manufacturers see the market and follow suit, but damn you've created a monster of a .25 caliber bullet that I don't think many companies are going to try to touch!

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I've got a BR coming and currently have a 6.5 cm. I will be getting a .25cm barrel simply for hunting and the occasional match use.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I might see about a barrel for my AXMC to push those bullets pretty well. I guess I'll have to see what other brass winds up being a good fit to go a bit longer and a bit faster.

 

[Conrad]

My blank and reamer are in hand.Brass is prepped. Ordered a while back. Just waiting on bullets. Encouraging velocity from 22” barrel.

 

[coldboremiracle]

My blank and reamer are in hand.Brass is prepped. Ordered a while back. Just waiting on bullets. Encouraging velocity from 22” barrel.

Which reamer did you use?

 

[jsthntn247]

Problems is see is nobody knows anything about the barrel life of these. No high BC hunting bullets, these bullets are made and pointed by Sierra who can’t seem to make a consistent of a bullet as Berger or Hornady .

 

[coldboremiracle]

Problems is see is nobody knows anything about the barrel life of these. No high BC hunting bullets, these bullets are made and pointed by Sierra who can’t seem to make a consistent of a bullet as Berger or Hornady .

Pretty sure the barrel life is as simple as anything else, likely less than a 6.5CM, and likely better than a 6CM. I couldn’t care less about a “hunting” bullet, as I haven’t used them in nearly a decade.
Not sure what you mean about Sierra’s being inconsistent, Ive never had a problem with the thousands of them Ive shot.

 

[M338]

Problems is see is nobody knows anything about the barrel life of these. No high BC hunting bullets, these bullets are made and pointed by Sierra who can’t seem to make a consistent of a bullet as Berger or Hornady .

C’mon man,Sierra is my go to when nothing else shoots.Old faithful!!

 

[Conrad]

I ordered the JGS reamer through Miles.

Also, he has “hunting” bullets coming from Sierra as well in the future.

My only hang up with hunting using the current pointed 131’s is I’m a bit weary of pointed tips. Had a pointed 115 DTAC pierce right through a little does neck with no affect except some sweet acrobatics. David has also mentioned some inconsistent performance on baboons in a recent podcast. We had discussed it years ago and I filed my tips back open for hunting. That isn’t gospel, just my experience. If you’re hitting bigger bone or simply more mass on bigger animals it may be a nonissue. Coldbore can speak to that more.

Which reamer did you use?

 

[BLKWLFK9]

High shoulder, night night critter.

 

[Derek200]

This seems really interesting. Seems like a great compromise. Following

 

[coldboremiracle]

Coldbore can speak to that more.

Could have results as early as tomorrow.??

 

[RNWRKNP]

+ another one for the 1/4 bore and that looks like a sweet project?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Guys, just took down our first deer with the 25CM, a good friends son got his first deer with it. Took him down from 610 yards, more about in the hunting thread if your interested click here.