25 shots at 100 yards

[justin amateur]

Yeah, I know, there's an ammo shortage.
How can I waste valuable 22lr on the same old same old.
Because I won't have to fire a single shot, it's already been done.
All I had to do is some target analysis.

The targets and method were posted previously...it's been a cartridge reference since 2010.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/

I'm not much for averaging results, as it hides problems.
I've built the 25 shot aggregates and compared the total spread from each target.
Makes me feel better when even a high end benchrest rifle can't make crappy ammo group.

Link to view original targets and aggregate images: https://photos.app.goo.gl/S7B4Dtbmp4ZZ5VUs5

Bleiker Results 2010

5 Group Average............................25 shot Aggregate

0.455 Eley Match...........................0.60" Vertical - 0.82" Horizontal
0.510 Lapua Midas Plus...................0.67" Vertical - 0.64" Horizontal
0.549 Lapua Midas M.....................0.71" Vertical - 0.77" Horizontal
0.611 Lapua Polar Biathlon..............0.83" Vertical - 0.82" Horizontal
0.611 Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS........0.99" Vertical - 0.65" Horizontal
0.619 Eley Match EPS....................0.63" Vertical - 0.913" Horizontal
0.622 Eley Club............................1.03" Vertical - 1.13" Horizontal
0.630 Lapua Center X....................0.92" Vertical - 0.71" Horizontal
0.631 RWS R50.............................1.25" Vertical - 0.66" Horizontal
0.679 Eley Tenex Semi Auto........... 1.24" Vertical - 0.55" Horizontal
0.694 Lapua Midas L......................1.08" Vertical - 1.18" Horizontal
0.729 Eley Tenex..........................0.94" Vertical - 0.99" Horizontal
0.739 Lapua Master L....................0.79" Vertical - 1.24" Horizontal
0.753 Lapua Super Club.................1.11" Vertical - 0.70" Horizontal
0.785 Lapua Master M....................1.10" Vertical - 0.88" Horizontal
0.831 Eley Sport...........................1.32" Vertical - 1.05" Horizontal
0.851 Eley Match Xtra....................1.01" Vertical - 1.30" Horizontal
0.859 Lapua Standard Plus..............1.06" Vertical - 0.77" Horizontal
0.867 Akah X-Zone........................1.16" Vertical - 1.23" Horizontal
0.877 Eley Pistol Match...................1.18" Vertical - 1.03" Horizontal
0.907 Norinco Target......................1.08" Vertical - 1.79" Horizontal
0.924 Eley Silhouex........................1.95" Vertical - 1.18" Horizontal
0.939 CCI Standard........................1.63" Vertical - 1.02" Horizontal
0.952 Eley Subsonic HP...................2.11" Vertical - 1.05" Horizontal
0.963 Magtech..............................1.74" Vertical - 1.06" Horizontal
0.970 Olin Ball...............................1.45" Vertical - 1.37" Horizontal
0.978 Kassnar Concorde..................2.00" Vertical - 1.21" Horizontal
0.995 Eley Club Xtra......................1.20" Vertical - 1.59" Horizontal
1.009 Western Value Pack...............1.54" Vertical - 0.85" Horizontal
1.032 Federal Champion..................1.68" Vertical - 1.37" Horizontal
1.087 Norinco Pistol Revolver...........1.71" Vertical - 1.63" Horizontal
1.100 CCI Mini Mag........................1.50" Vertical - 1.25" Horizontal
1.112 Lapua Crow HP......................No image available
1.143 Winchester T22....................2.32" Vertical - 1.36" Horizontal
1.142 Federal Gold Medal................1.95" Vertical - 1.57" Horizontal
1.144 Federal American Eagle..........1.71" Vertical - 1.14" Horizontal
1.156 Swartklip Hollow Point...........1.60" Vertical - 1.62" Horizontal
1.165 Lapua Signum......................1.38" Vertical - 1.31" Horizontal
1.170 Swartklip Match Trainer..........1.83" Vertical - 1.48" Horizontal
1.175 Fed. Champion Value Pk..........2.03" Vertical - 1.67" Horizontal
1.182 SK high Velocity....................1.93" Vertical - 0.78" Horizontal
1.201 Totem.................................2.05" Vertical - 1.43" Horizontal
1.224 Winchester Super X...............1.23" Vertical - 1.94" Horizontal
1.358 Eley Standard......................1.85" Vertical - 1.39" Horizontal
1.367 Remington High Velocity.........1.54" Vertical - 1.91" Horizontal
1.375 CCI Blazer...........................2.27" Vertical - 1.41" Horizontal
1.414 Eley High Velocity.................2.49" Vertical - 1.87" Horizontal
1.450 Remington Target.................2.29" Vertical - 1.93" Horizontal
1.504 LVE Logo............................1.92" Vertical - 2.11" Horizontal
1.813 SK Standard.......................2.40" Vertical - 2.87" Horizontal
1.879 S&B Club............................3.42" Vertical - 1.94" Horizontal
1.947 S&B Hollow Point.................3.22" Vertical - 2.67" Horizontal
2.073 SK Standard HP.................3.05" Vertical - 2.55" Horizontal
2.221 S&B Standard...................3.27" Vertical - 1.23" Horizontal
2.266 Pobjeda Target.................2.40" Vertical - 2.88" Horizontal

 

[Memberberries]

Seeing testing like this really makes me appreciate how different guns like different ammo and how sensitive 22's are. Your results with SK standard out of a very good rifle proved to be nearly twice the group size of my T1X but you got better results with several other rounds than I did with your top 20 being all better than the best I have got out of my rifle.

 

[justin amateur]

different guns like different ammo

When we're talking about 22lr, I used to believe that.
Then I actually tried to find the brand my rifles liked.
2 plus years of testing ammunition across a chronograph and documenting results.
I actually tried every brand available to buy here in the US.
I learned something...it's not brand that's important, but solely cartridge quality.
No rifle can fix crappy ammunition. If it had tight mv's and a minimum of defects
it shot well in all 4 of my rifles. If the chronograph showed mv spread and cartridge inspection
showed dents, dings, irregular crimp/bullet seating, asymmetric bullets, irregular brass dimensions,
then my results on target reeked, with all my rifles. Base your conclusions on a few 5 shot groups,
it's unlikely you've done anything but hit a statistical anomaly. Send 50 or more rounds downrange,
you've begun to achieve the sample size needed to understand what is actually taking place.

 

[Memberberries]

After shooting groups with a whole brick of Center X trying to see how long it would take to season the bore and groups to shrink to under an inch at a hundred yards I decided that my gun doesn't like Center X. I think that qualifies as enough for my wallet Eley Club shot better and even SK Standard prints smaller groups in my rifle.

I am not saying that my rifle fixes crappy ammunition but my rather that it ruins the better ammo somehow. I'm a few bricks in to the SK Standard and it's definitely not a fluke of one good group. I'm actually quite astonished at how bad SK ammo fared for all of their lines in your testing, maybe this is due to SK changing their production line over the years and making better ammo now than they did when you performed the test or maybe it is due to the specifics of that round and how it cooperates or doesn't in your rifle. This just reinforces my stance that a rifle can't make any ammo shoot better than it is but it can certainly make it shoot worse and you have to try a variety in every rifle.

I would be curious to see the results if you performed this again with some of the ammo that didn't fare well the first go round, assuming you still have the rifle. That could be a fun update. also maybe include Norma Match and some others that didn't exist at the time of the test

 

[justin amateur]

I hear ya' MB.

My problem is the differences in batch quality.

I had a brick of Wolf ME, consistent sub-moa at 100 yards.
At the time I thought I had found the brand my rifle "liked".
Chronograph numbers showing an ES in the 20 to 30 fps range.
Cartridges were uniform in appearance, no irregularities, surprised me how well it shot.
Next order of Wolf ME...ES went to the 50 to 60 fps range and kept throwing strays.
Annoyed the snot out of me. Same brand, made at the same SK/JAGD plant in Germany,
but the difference in cartridge quality between the two bricks was measurable.
Buying by brand didn't guarantee results.
It's happened to me with every delivery of every brand of rimfire ammo.
Some bricks are decent, some are barely practice ammo.
I've had boxes of CCI SV, that produced better results than boxes of Tenex.
Next box of CCI went back to slinging those typical 2 moa strays.
That's why I no longer believe in finding the brand my rifles like.
Now it's all about finding well made 22lr cartridges with tight mv's.
Doesn't matter if it's made by RWS, Lapua/SK, Eley or Fiocchi.
Get a good brick, all my rifles do well.
Get a lesser quality brick, they all sling strays.

Side note: The Blieker ammunition test was not produced by me.
That was run on the accuracy.com forum back in 2010.
I'm just building the group aggregates to obtain more information regarding cartridge quality.
Those averages posted in the original link bothered me.
Group sizes were substantially larger on many of the targets, than the averages indicate.

 

[grauhanen]

The results shown are a snapshot of how those particular lots of ammo performed on the day in 2010 when they were tested with that particular rifle. Two years later more results with the same rifle were posted. Eley Match, which had a .455" average in 2010, now had a .706" five-shot-group average.

The takeaway from those results? They should not be viewed as a cartridge reference. Different lots of each of the ammos would produce different results. Additionally, the sample size of 25 shots in the form of five five-shot-groups is too small on which to hang a hat.

 

[justin amateur]

Y'er right G.

I plan on building the aggregates for the results from later tunnel testing also.
Those were shot with a Walther KK200, Sako P04 and a custom Ruger 10/22.
Looking at old information with new eyes.
It's winter, I have time to kill.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Hey JA, is that your shooting facility?

 

[justin amateur]

I wish, KOD.

Not my rifles either...he's got access to one heck of a collection.

The original forum thread from 2010

Testing .22 LR ammo In A Bleiker Rifle - Updated With Targets - Topic

forums.accuratereloading.com

 

[justin amateur]

Walther KK200 Results - 2012

5 Group Average...........................25 Shot Aggregate

0.426" Eley Match EPS...................0.69" Vertical - 0.54" Horizontal
0.455" Lapua Polar Biathlon.............0.79" Vertical - 0.76" Horizontal
0.513" Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS .......0.91" Vertical - 0.63" Horizontal
0.540" Eley Tenex Semi-Auto...........0.71" Vertical - 0.61" Horizontal
0.547" Eley Tenex..........................0.84" Vertical - 0.70" Horizontal
0.581" Eley Match Pistol..................0.84" Vertical - 0.90" Horizontal
0.592" Eley Match..........................0.88" Vertical - 0.61" Horizontal
0.605" SK High Velocity...................1.12" Vertical - 0.72" Horizontal
0.614" Lapua Midas M.....................0.95" Vertical - 0.82" Horizontal
0.625" RWS R50............................0.92" Vertical - 0.67" Horizontal
0.652" Eley Match Extra Plus...........0.85" Vertical - 0.67" Horizontal
0.664" Eley Team...........................0.94" Vertical - 0.69" Horizontal
0.685" Eley Practice.......................1.20" Vertical - 0.90" Horizontal
0.686" Federal Champion Target........1.01" Vertical - 0.76" Horizontal
0.720" Lapua Center-X....................1.48" Vertical - 0.72" Horizontal
0.728" Lapua Super Club..................1.00" Vertical - 0.78" Horizontal
0.746" Lapua Midas Plus..................1.38" Vertical - 0.67" Horizontal
0.748" Eley Club Extra.....................1.04" Vertical - 0.84" Horizontal
0.745" Lapua Midas Plus..................1.38" Vertical - 0.67" Horizontal
0.761" Lapua Signum.......................1.03" Vertical - 1.10" Horizontal
0.777" Eley Standard.......................0.95" Vertical - 1.42" Horizontal
0.786" Lapua Midas L......................0.97" Vertical - 1.10" Horizontal
0.818" Norinco Standard..................1.57" Vertical - 1.27" Horizontal
0.823" Federal Gold Medal................0.92" Vertical - 1.25" Horizontal
0.824" Western 1220..................1.12" Vertical - 0.81" Horizontal
0.836" Lapua Master L....................1.00" Vertical - 0.81" Horizontal
0.879" CCI Standard Velocity............1.73" Vertical - 0.75" Horizontal
0.844" Eley Subsonic Hollowpoint......1.27" Vertical - 0.70" Horizontal
0.850" Remington High Velocity.........1.26" Vertical - 1.16" Horizontal
0.866" Lapua Crow Hollowpoint.........1.32" Vertical - 1.06" Horizontal
0.868" Norinco Pistol Revolver...........1.45" Vertical - 0.98" Horizontal
0.873" Remington Target..................1.29" Vertical - 1.49" Horizontal
0.890" Magtech High Velocity............1.12" Vertical - 1.59" Horizontal
0.898" Eley Pistol Match...................1.28" Vertical - 0.91" Horizontal
0.924" Winchester Rabbit HV.............1.45" Vertical - 1.16" Horizontal
0.931" Eley Silhouex........................1.78" Vertical - 0.98" Horizontal
0.931" Swartklip Match Trainer..........1.03" Vertical - 1.08" Horizontal
0.946" Eley HV Rabbit......................1.41" Vertical - 1.24" Horizontal
1.024" CCI MiniMag 36 gr..................2.37" Vertical - 1.36" Horizontal
1.082" Federal Champion Value Pack...1.29 Vertical - 1.45" Horizontal
1.098" Eley Club.............................1.80" Vertical - 0.71" Horizontal
1.117" Akah X-Zone........................1.72" Vertical - 0.80" Horizontal
1.139" Eley Sport...........................2.01" Vertical - 0.81" Horizontal
1.143" Federal American Eagle..........1.48" Vertical - 1.11" Horizontal
1.178" Kasnar Concorde..................1.41" Vertical - 1.55" Horizontal
1.179" Pobjeda..............................1.94" Vertical - 1.65" Horizontal
1.330" LVE Logo............................1.84" Vertical - 1.91" Horizontal
1.364" SK Standard........................2.10" Vertical - 1.65" Horizontal
1.392" SK Standard HP....................2.21" Vertical - 0.89" Horizontal
1.419" SK Standard Plus..................2.27" Vertical - 1.44" Horizontal
1.484" Sellier & Bellot Standard.........2.48" Vertical - 1.21" Horizontal
1.549" Totem Standard...................2.41" Vertical - 1.25" Horizontal
1.747" Sellier & Bellot Club...............2.46" Vertical - 0.87" Horizontal
1.752" CCI Stinger..........................1.91" Vertical - 2.60" Horizontal


Link to view original targets and aggregate images...https://photos.app.goo.gl/CJ25FeeH9X3RTcQLA

 

[justin amateur]

Ruger 10/22 Results - 2013

5 Group Average..............................25 Shot Aggregate

0.725" Eley Tenex............................1.69" Vertical - 1.00" Horizontal
0.793" Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS..........1.23" Vertical - 1.01" Horizontal
0.832" Eley Tenex............................1.26" Vertical - 1.70" Horizontal
0.913" Eley Team.............................1.70" Vertical - 1.18" Horizontal
0.968" Lapua Master L......................1.80" Vertical - 1.72" Horizontal
0.974" Eley Standard........................1.54" Vertical - 0.64" Horizontal
0.977" SK Standard Plus....................1.53" Vertical - 0.96" Horizontal
0.980" SK High Velocity.....................1.73" Vertical - 1.69" Horizontal
0.983" Eley Tenex Semi-Auto.............1.20" Vertical - 1.19" Horizontal
0.991" Eley Practice 100...................1.36" Vertical - 1.56" Horizontal
0.994" Eley Match Pistol....................1.40" Vertical - 1.31" Horizontal
1.021" Eley Sport.............................1.55" Vertical - 1.42" Horizontal
1.049" Winchester Rabbit HV..............1.71" Vertical - 1.48" Horizontal
1.059" Lapua Super Club...................1.98" Vertical - 1.00" Horizontal
1.063" Eley Pistol Match....................1.64" Vertical - 1.22" Horizontal
1.064" Eley Match EPS......................1.09" Vertical - 1.18 Horizontal
1.089" Eley Club..............................1.28" Vertical - 1.52" Horizontal
1.103" Sellier & Bellot Standard..........2.85" Vertical - 1.27" Horizontal
1.128" Eley club Extra......................1.75" Vertical - 1.16" Horizontal
1.123" Eley Match Extra...................1.86" Vertical - 1.29" Horizontal
1.128" Lapua Midas L.......................1.49" Vertical - 1.63" Horizontal
1.159" Lapua Midas M......................1.60" Vertical - 1.30" Horizontal
1.196" CCI SV.................................1.48" Vertical - 2.05" Horizontal
1.212" Eley Match............................1.75" Vertical - 1.78" Horizontal
1.220" Lapua CenterX.......................1.38" Vertical - 1.24" Horizontal
1.223" SK Standard.........................2.96" Vertical - 1.12" Horizontal
1.248" RWS R50..............................1.60" Vertical - 2.38" Horizontal
1.269" Eley Practice........................1.56" Vertical - 1.33" Horizontal
1.286" Federal Champion Target.........2.15" Vertical - 2.68" Horizontal
1.314" Eley Silhouex........................2.01" Vertical - 1.61" Horizontal
1.320" RWS Subsonic.......................2.18" Vertical - 1.63" Horizontal
1.348" Lapua Polar Biathlon...............1.92" Vertical - 2.33" Horizontal
1.404" Fiocchi Ultrasonic..................2.46" Vertical - 1.49" Horizontal
1.407" Lapua Crow HV......................3.02" Vertical - 1.20" Horizontal
1.466" Lapua Master M.................... 2.09" Vertical - 1.28" Horizontal
1.469" RWS HV HP.......................... 1.59" Vertical - 2.47" Horizontal
1.478" Eley Rabbit HV...................... 2.11" Vertical - 1.74" Horizontal
1.483" Akah X-Zone........................ 2.54" Vertical - 1.46" Horizontal
1.483 Swartklip Match Target........... 2.15" Vertical - 1.21" Horizontal
1.495" CCI Blazer............................ 2.03" Vertical - 1.95" Horizontal
1.536" CCI Stinger.......................... 1.53" Vertical - 2.78" Horizontal
1.539" Norinco Pistol Revolver........... 2.48" Vertical - 1.59" Horizontal
1.556" Eley Edge............................ 2.47" Vertical - 3.01" Horizontal
1.567" Lapua Midas Plus.................. 3.35" Vertical - 1.14" Horizontal
1.571" Magtech............................. 2.91" Vertical - 2.05" Horizontal
1.573" Top Shot Competition............ 1.90" Vertical - 2.03" Horizontal
1.620" Federal American Eagle.......... 2.45" Vertical - 1.56" Horizontal
1.631" Federal Value Pack................ 2.12" Vertical - 1.85" Horizontal
1.657" Pobjeda Target...................... 2.95" Vertical - 1.82" Horizontal
1.659" Fiocchi Subsonic.................... 2.18" Vertical - 1.74" Horizontal
1.710" Totem Standard......................2.40" Vertical - 1.17" Horizontal
1.743" Logo High Velocity.................. 2.17" Vertical - 1.74" Horizontal
1.793" Federal Gold Medal Target..... 2.20" Vertical - 2.46" Horizontal
1.834" Western 1220 HP.................... 2.41" Vertical - 2.21" Horizontal
1.835" Remington Target................... 2.28" Vertical - 2.67" Horizontal
1.862" Fiocchi HV HP.......................... 3.16" Vertical - 1.56" Horizontal
1.924" Kasnar Concorde................... 2.47" Vertical - 2.67" Horizontal
2.037" Sellier & Bellot Club............... 2.94" Vertical - 2.11" Horizontal
2.040" CCI Mini-Mag HP.................... 2.79" Vertical - 2.68" Horizontal
2.130" Sellier & Bellot HV HP............ 2.79" Vertical - 2.70" Horizontal
2.266" Eley Subsonic HP.................. 3.72" Vertical - 2.14" Horizontal
2.299" CCI Mini-Mag........................ 3.35" Vertical - 2.81" Horizontal
2.424" Federal Gold Medal.............. 4.58" Vertical - 3.36" Horizontal
2.520" Remington HV...................... 3.70" Vertical - 3.49" Horizontal

SK Standard HP...gave up after just 5 shots...6.248 inches of vertical

.
Link to view original targets and aggregate images https://photos.app.goo.gl/hA64MLCuxA3yMB5W7

 

[justin amateur]

Sako P04R 100 yards

5 Group Average..............................25 Shot Aggregate

0.493" Lapua Midas M.......................0.77" Vertical - 0.55" Horizontal
0.539" Eley Tenex............................0.55" Vertical - 0.85" Horizontal
0.590" Lapua CenterX.......................1.00" Vertical - 0.71" Horizontal
0.616" Eley Edge..............................0.94" Vertical - 0.80" Horizontal
0.651" Eley Team.............................0.81" Vertical - 1.13" Horizontal
0.662" Lapua Master M.....................0.92" Vertical - 0.83" Horizontal
0.666" Eley Match...........................1.17" Vertical - 0.58" Horizontal
0.671" SK Standard Plus...................0.89" Vertical - 0.75" Horizontal
0.679" Lapua Polar Biathlon...............0.83" Vertical - 0.65" Horizontal
0.683" Eley Pistol Match...................1.13" Vertical - 0.73" Horizontal
0.689" Lapua Midas L.......................0.81" Vertical - 1.07" Horizontal
0.685" Lapua Super Club...................0.92" Vertical - 1.06" Horizontal
0.715" Federal Champion Target.........0.79" Vertical - 1.13" Horizontal
0.748" Eley Practice........................0.76" Vertical - 1.04" Horizontal
0.762" Eley Tenex Semi-Auto............0.90" Vertical - 0.91" Horizontal
0.768" Eley Match EPS....................1.01" Vertical - 1.07" Horizontal
0.772" Eley Club Extra.....................0.96" Vertical - 1.03" Horizontal
0.801" Eley Sport...........................1.18" Vertical - 1.47" Horizontal
0.813" Eley Practice........................0.97" Vertical - 1.47" Horizontal
0.814" Lapua Signum.......................1.18" Vertical - 0.72" Horizontal
0.824" Lapua Master L.....................1.13" Vertical - 0.89" Horizontal
0.836" Eley Match Extra Plus............1.03" Vertical - 1.00" Horizontal
0.838" Eley Subsonic HP Extra..........1.35" Vertical - 0.82" Horizontal
0.843" Akah X-Zone.......................1.34" Vertical - 0.92" Horizontal
0.860" RWS R50............................1.04" Vertical - 1.62" Horizontal
0.868" Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS........1.16" Vertical - 1.25" Horizontal
0.879" Western 1220......................1.44" Vertical - 1.06" Horizontal
0.883" RWS HV HP.........................1.49" Vertical - 1.07" Horizontal
0.884" Lapua Midas Plus.................1.54" Vertical - 1.07" Horizontal
0.895" SK HV................................1.85" Vertical - 0.80" Horizontal
0.931" RWS Rifle Match...................0.98" Vertical - 1.47" Horizontal
0.938" Federal Gold Medal Target......1.23" Vertical - 1.53" Horizontal
0.948" Eley Match Pistol..................1.05" Vertical - 1.13" Horizontal
0.984" Federal American Eagle..........1.44" Vertical - 0.81" Horizontal
0.987" Swartklip Match Trainer..........1.45" Vertical - 1.25" Horizontal
1.020" RWS Subsonic HP..................0.98" Vertical - 1.49" Horizontal
1.058" Winchester Rabbit HV.............1.50" Vertical - 1.06" Horizontal
1.059" Eley Club.............................1.19" Vertical - 1.27" Horizontal
1.117" Eley Standard.......................1.36" Vertical - 1.32" Horizontal
1.184" Lapua Crow..........................1.84" Vertical - 1.65" Horizontal
1.185" RWS Target Rifle....................1.48" Vertical - 1.42" Horizontal
1.202" Fiocchi Subsonic....................1.47" Vertical - 1.62" Horizontal
1.231" Topshot Competition...............2.08" Vertical - 1.67" Horizontal
1.250" CCI Blazer.............................1.71" Vertical - 1.40" Horizontal
1.268" Federal Gold Medal.................1.76" Vertical - 1.32" Horizontal
1.273" CCI MiniMag 40 grain...............2.53" Vertical - 1.17" Horizontal
1.313" Eley Rabbit HV........................1.96" Vertical - 2.07" Horizontal
1.345" CCI MiniMag HP 36 Grain...........1.87" Vertical - 1.41" Horizontal
1.362" Remington Target....................1.91" Vertical - 1.85" Horizontal
1.367" Sellier & Bellot Club..................1.85" Vertical - 1.41" Horizontal
1.371" Norinco Pistol Revolver.............2.46" Vertical - 1.87" Horizontal
1.378" Totem..................................1.66" Vertical - 1.79" Horizontal
1.434" Kasnar Concorde....................1.56" Vertical - 2.06" Horizontal
1.442" Federal Value Pack.................2.62" Vertical - 1.44" Horizontal
1.496" Remington HV........................2.26" Vertical - 1.60" Horizontal
1.544" Fiocchi HV HP........................1.61" Vertical - 2.04" Horizontal
1.549" Fiocchi Ultrasonic...................2.13" Vertical - 1.61" Horizontal
1.603" Magtech..............................1.62" Vertical - 2.63" Horizontal
1.673" Sellier & Bellot Standard..........1.70" Vertical - 2.38" Horizontal
1.687" Sellier & Bellot HV HP..............2.18" Vertical - 2.03" Horizontal
1.767" CCI SV.................................2.41" Vertical - 2.49" Horizontal
1.900" Logo HV...............................2.45" Vertical - 2.44" Horizontal
1.964" SK Standard.........................2.89" Vertical - 3.02" Horizontal
2.063" CCI Stingers.........................2.46" Vertical - 2.42" Horizontal
2.095" Pobjeda...............................3.39" Vertical - 2.76" Horizontal

Link to target and aggregate images - https://photos.app.goo.gl/2jrCxpvGin5kXDdz6

 

[justin amateur]

Bleiker Results - 2013

5 Group Average............................25 shot Aggregate

0.493" Eley Sport.............................0.68" Vertical - 0.69" Horizontal
0.530" Lapua Mida Plus......................0.74" Vertical - 0.54" Horizontal
0.551" Eley Team.............................0.78" Vertical - 0.62" Horizontal
0.552 Akah X-Zone..........................0.80" Vertical - 1.07" Horizontal
0.556" SK Standard..........................0.72" Vertical - 0.65" Horizontal
0.578" Eley Tenex............................0.78" Vertical - 0.73" Horizontal
0.581" Eley Match EPS......................0.83" Vertical - 0.72" Horizontal
0.594" Lapua Midas M.......................0.89" Vertical - 0.83" Horizontal
0.615' Lapua Super Club....................1.02" Vertical - 0.60" Horizontal
0.642" RWS Subsonic.......................1.05" Vertical - 0.59" Horizontal
0.648" Eley Match Pistol...................0.75" Vertical - 0.86" Horizontal
0.652" Lapua Master L......................0.92" Vertical - 0.55" Horizontal
0.661" Lapua Master M.....................0.81" Vertical - 0.73" Horizontal
0.666" Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS..........0.88" Vertical - 1.10" Horizontal
0.680" Norinco Standard...................1.38" Vertical - 1.13" Horizontal
0.697" Lapua Polar Biathlon...............0.88" Vertical - 0.75" Horizontal
0.706" Eley Match...........................0.97" Vertical - 0.87" Horizontal
0.715" Eley Edge............................1.18" Vertical - 1.49" Horizontal
0.719" Federal Champion Target........0.82" Vertical - 1.08" Horizontal
0.736" Lapua Center X ...................1.20" Vertical - 0.60" Horizontal
0.763" Eley Match Extra..................1.09" Vertical - 0.88" Horizontal
0.780" Eley Tenex SemiAuto.............1.24" Vertical - 1.05" Horizontal
0.786" Topshot Competition.............1.39" Vertical - 0.81" Horizontal
0.786" Eley Pistol...........................1.15" Vertical - 0.93" Horizontal
0.800" RWS HV HP..........................1.17" Vertical - 0.88" Horizontal
0.819" Eley Practice 100..................1.57" Vertical - 0.71" Horizontal
0.819" CCI SV................................1.20" Vertical - 0.77" Horizontal
0.936" Lapua Crow HP.....................1.37" Vertical - 0.91" Horizontal
0.937" Eley Club Extra.....................1.58" Vertical - 0.76" Horizontal
0.952" Winchester Rabbit HV............1.91" Vertical - 1.34" Horizontal
0.956" Fiocchi HV HP......................1.13" Vertical - 1.54" Horizontal
0.963" Federal American Eagle.........1.24" Vertical - 1.06" Horizontal
0.964" Federal Gold Medal...............1.48" Vertical - 1.04" Horizontal
0.970" Norinco Pistol Revolver..........1.34" Vertical - 1.02" Horizontal
0.982" Lapua Midas L.....................1.35" Vertical - 0.98" Horizontal
0.987" Lapua Signum......................2.01" Vertical - 1.08" Horizontal
1.022" Eley Club............................1.32" Vertical - 1.40" Horizontal
1.044" Eley Silhouex........................1.32" Vertical - 1.43" Horizontal
1.045" CCI Blazer...........................1.46" Vertical - 1.43" Horizontal
1.051" Magtech..............................1.68" Vertical - 0.94" Horizontal
1.061" Eley Practice........................1.61" Vertical - 1.42" Horizontal
1.096" Eley Rabbit HV.......................1.35" Vertical - 1.26" Horizontal
1.098" Fiocchi Subsonic....................1.50" Vertical - 1.21" Horizontal
1.103" Remington HV........................1.83" Vertical - 1.34" Horizontal
1.120" CCI Mini-Mag 40 gr.................1.11" Vertical - 1.59" Horizontal
1.126" Swartklip Match Trainer...........2.09" Vertical - 1.07" Horizontal
1.139" Kassnar Concorde..................1.53" Vertical - 1.81" Horizontal
1.194" CCI MiniMag 36 gr HP..............1.80" Vertical - 1.27" Horizontal
1.206" Eley Extra Subsonic................1.64" Vertical - 1.36" Horizontal
1.235" Fiocchi UltraSonic..................1.92" Vertical - 1.94" Horizontal
1.257" RWS R50..............................2.20" Vertical - 0.70" Horizontal
1.263" Federal Gold Medal Target........2.66" Vertical - 0.80" Horizontal
1.272" SK Standard Plus...................1.00" Vertical - 2.83" Horizontal
1.302" Western 1220.......................2.60" Vertical - 1.30" Horizontal
1.333" Remington Target...................2.36" Vertical - 1.18" Horizontal
1.352" CCI Stiingers........................1.64" Vertical - 1.48" Horizontal
1.366" SK HV.................................2.14" Vertical - 1.90" Horizontal
1.400" Totem................................1.98" Vertical - 1.13" Horizontal
1.433" Federal Value Pack...............1.88 Vertical - 2.06" Horizontal
1.442" Sellier & Bellot H..................1.70" Vertical - 2.18" Horizontal
1.571" Logo HV.............................1.86" Vertical - 2.36" Horizontal
1.650" SK Standard.......................2.18" Vertical - 1.33" Horizontal
2.037" Sellier & Bellot Standard.......1.85" Vertical - 5.67" Horizontal
2.103" Pobjeda Target...................3.14" Vertical - 4.67" Horizontal

Link to target and aggregate images - https://photos.app.goo.gl/U7kzuFPysXfL81mV9

 

[justin amateur]

That's the last of the aggregate builds.
4 rifles, off the bench, in a tunnel, 5 sets of data produced.
Have ya' noticed, 5 shot group average ratings don't agree with 25 shot aggregates?
Several have shown smaller aggregate size better than as rated from the average of the 5 shot groups.
Those groups wander up and down depending on the mv for those 5 shots.
I've reached the point where 5 shot groups are almost a joke.
They are pretty much random acts of accuracy when compared with larger sample sizes.
Especially when you average the individual groups together in an attempt to compare cartridge quality.

Noticed there are a few interesting bits of data.
I see some Hi-V 22lr producing better results than SV cartridges.
Isn't that supersonic transition supposed to prevent that from happening?

I get a giggle from random acts of accuracy.

Someone posts a pic of a single 5 shot group
produced at 100 yards, then claims "all day long".....

Then they get irritated when I ask what does the rest of the target look like?

Or what does the aggregate group size look like...

Those strays and fliers do ruin a target don't they...all day long.


Doesn't matter how good y'er rifle is,
not even a tuner on an high end custom match rig, in a tunnel, off a rest,
can prevent a cartridge that was damaged on the assembly line, from going astray.

With all the groups built from the 2010 and 2013 tunnel tests
some bits of information are easy to see.

1....Eley and Lapua products provide the best results with each rifle.

2....Tuners correct only small variations in muzzle velocity.
Anything outside that limited range and the mv spread shows up as vertical spread on target.

3....It doesn't matter which rifle you have, it can't fix cr*ppy ammo.
MV spread, poorly made or bullets damaged on the assembly line will still stray.

4....If the cartridges were assembled properly and have tight mv's,
even hi-v 22lr will produce sub-moa. Super-sonic transition has almost no effect.
Cartridge quality is the most important factor...not the design velocity.

5....Even the best grades of 22lr have bad boxes of cartridges.
It's not the rifle, it's the ammo that's producing those odd fliers.

 

[JG26_Irish]

Justin, this is a really interesting topic. Thank you for posting it. I am not at all surprised that Eley and Lapua products were consistently topping the results of every chart. I would add that both Eley and Lapua make 22lr that are graded by median velocity from sample tests of each lot. Even the best 22lr is pretty crappy when it comes to the spread from hi to low velocity out of a given lot, so those velocity statements are a tested number that is only a guide and your ammo may vary. Still, my point is that Lapua is graded in M/s ranges from lots rated 321 M/s to about 335 M/s (1053-1099 Ft/s) and Eley ranges from about 1040-1100 Ft/s as well. If you test lots from that full range some will shoot better than others in a given rifle, lots both rated the same speed with test different as well. Lots that shoot well in the cold often do not in the heat and visa versa. For example, I compete in BR matches and had a lot of Lapua Midas+ at 27 spd. It would not shoot well in any of my rifles (Win 52's, Anschutz Super Match, Sako, CZ) back in the winter. This past spring after the weather warmed that same crappy lot of ammo recorded a series of perfect scores on ARA cards. Back in the Winter, I had two lots of Center X and Midas rated at 22 and 23 spd which recorded perfect scores in 65 deg F weather in Feb out in SoCal as well as January cold in KY. Now that the weather in KY is hot and humid, those same lots are no longer able to perform in the same rifle. I know other factors such as atmospheric conditions are a contributing variable that frankly, I wish I understood more. My point is that doing a test of just one lot of Eley or Lapua still does not prove that one or the other is better in a given rifle. It just shows that a specific lot of a product at that time and in those conditions performed a certain way.

A good rifle shoots good ammo well and if fed crappy ammo, it will not shoot very well. Plus even if it shoots a given lot of ammo well, does not mean it will always shoot that ammo great under all conditions (outdoor ranges). With ammo in short supply, I dragged out a brick of CCI SV ammo to shoot in a local fun shoot BR match about a month ago. This was good CCI ammo and I was firing it out of one of my best Winchester vintage 52B rifles that will usually shoot 248-250/15x or so scores on an IBS card at 50y. It is not perfect but it shoots most ammo well and is an amazing old rifle. Firing some warmup groups with the CCI was revealing and supports your claim that even a good rifle cannot make crappy ammo shoot well. I struggled to print 1" groups at 50y from a rifle that normally kept most shots in the 10 ring. The CCI was relegated to survival use in event of apocalypse, lol. Rimfire accuracy is a fickle thing to achieve. Just when you think you have it all figured out, a random shot goes wobbling out further than you ever imagined. Testing indoors at the Lapua Test Center at 50/100y is interesting and the range of results testing 20-30 lots of what is all good ammo shows just how poor even the best ammo can be. It also demonstrates how amazing a great lot can perform in one rifle when it all clicks.

 

[Booner1334]

I too would like to thank Mr. Amateur for reporting his findings from all his hard work. I know I have enjoyed reading what he's done and am sure that he has saved my time, money, and frustration in my endeavors with my .22's.

I don't pay much attention to reports of shooting groups, at least at 100 yards or less. I prefer shooting one shot at a tiny aim point, such as an ARA target. I like to see how the bullet's impact changes over the course of a firing string. Also, if you shoot a a 5 shoot group at one target, and take the aim point out, how do you know if your aiming at the spot. I realize it can be done, but is it done for every target you shoot.

I also agree that's it's not the brand of ammo the rifle likes, it's the lot number. So it's a constant chase to find THE lot number.

I don't know about Lapua, but with Eley, I'd like to know what the rifles are like that they use to come up with their velocity numbers. Are they sporting or match chambers? I'm suspecting they are sporting chambers because in my match chambered rifles, I'm getting much higher velocities with their ammo, (tenex), than what's printed on their box. I have two bricks of tenex (lot # 1021-03036 1054,(vel). and 1021-03035 1070 vel.) I weight sorted the 1054 velocity ammo ( I know, a waste of time, everyone on the internet says so), into three batches. 51.6 gr, 51.7 gr, and a third group that was over and under the other two weights. Yesterday I shot ten rounds of each of the 51.6 and 51.7 gr ammo, plus some unweighted ammo from the 1070 velocity ammo. I know my small sample size is not statistically significant, but it's too hard to come by these days, therefore my small sample size. From the velocity sample of 51.6 grains I got a mean vel. of 1135.8, with a spread of 14 fps ( 1129 to 1143) With the velocity sample at 51.7 grains my mean vel. was 1132.1 with a spread of 11 fps. (1127 to 1138, and a std. deviation of 3.884- the only std. dev I did). With the unsorted ammo, with a stated velocity on the box of 1070, my mean vel. was 1133.3 and a spread of 17, (1127 to 1144).

My immediate take away from this test was, don't take Eley's velocity ratings as gospel, or what is listed on a web site. This is assuming I'm reading the ave. velocity on their box correctly. My rifle shot the slowest rated ammo 78 fps faster than what was listed on their box. On their faster rated ammo, my rifle shot it at 63 fps faster. Perhaps Eley measures velocity at 50 yards downrange? My main reason for weight sorting was to try an minimize variances in the attempt to cull out those fliers as I'm using this rifle in factory bench rest. My groups with all three groups were very good, but it was too windy to do any real accuracy testing. I'll weight sort the faster listed lot and shoot that at 50 yards on a calm day.

 

[gkgeiger]

Hey Booner,
I'm with you on shooting groups. I'm also a ARA factory shooter, I also shoot unlimited, but have been doing better with my CZ.. I tried weighing and measuring a while back and gave up on it, I didn't see much variation in match ammo. I think I will try again though. It's very frustrating to shoot 6-7 100's and then shoot a 25. I also agree that you can't take the Mfr. word on velocity. I have a chrono but don't use it much.
gk

 

[justin amateur]

Weight sorting?

I've tried it....not worth the effort.
But it does bring up the question...what exactly are we weighing?
Might be fun disassembling a box of CCI SV,
to find out what the individual components weigh.
Lubricant, bullet, powder, primer and brass...you know they have to vary.
I wonder how much the components differ cartridge to cartridge?
That sounds like something my OCD would enjoy.
That and measuring fired bullet lengths and weights.
Good thing I'm easily entertained.

 

[BillOH]

Thanks for putting in all the work. Pretty interesting.

Seems like there is more vertical stringing than horizontal in many groups. I noticed the way the groups would move around on the target. Also, 1 or 2 shots could be completely outside the main group. I'll bet somebody had tired eyes after shooting all those groups.

 

[Badshot308]

Weight sorting?

I've tried it....not worth the effort.
But it does bring up the question...what exactly are we weighing?
Might be fun disassembling a box of CCI SV,
to find out what the individual components weigh.
Lubricant, bullet, powder, primer and brass...you know they have to vary.
I wonder how much the components differ cartridge to cartridge?
That sounds like something my OCD would enjoy.
That and measuring fired bullet lengths and weights.
Good thing I'm easily entertained.

Might be interesting to also disassemble some Eley Tenex and Lapua X-Act to see how the consistency of the premium target ammo components compares to the plinking ammo.

 

[justin amateur]

I can do that Bad.
First I need a better digital scale.
After reading through previous attempts, what I have won't do the job.
Accuracy needs to be a minimum of 0.001 grams in order to catch the variations.
I've noticed past reports are incomplete.
They catch the bullet and powder, but leave out the lubricant and primer mass.
This will have to be a multi step process to ensure accurate measurements.
Total cartridge weight out of the box.
Wipe off all exterior lubricant with solvent, dry, weigh again.
Remove bullet, weigh bullet.
Weigh brass, powder, primer as one.
Dump powder, weigh powder.
Weigh brass and primer.
Remove primer by dissolving.
Dry brass, weigh brass.
Each step will verify the weight measurements recorded.

Need the more accurate digital scale first.
This educational stuff is expensive, eh ?

 

[gkgeiger]

I’m getting a scale today from AZ that does thousands, it was under $20.

 

[justin amateur]

Saw that one, GK.
I don't know much about digital scales so I had to read up on how they function.
Accuracy seems to be a problem, something about piezoelectric memory during measurements.
The one I have is a backup to my balance scale used for reloading.
Plus or minus a tenth of a grain is the limit of accuracy.

I see a few available for basic laboratory use.
Might be good enough.

 

[Booner1334]

When I did my weight sorting I used my RCBS Chargemaster. The accuracy is supposed to be +- 0.1 grain.
I placed the bullet on the scale and let it settle, then lightly blow on the scale and let it settle again and go with that weight. I agree that to properly do this weight sorting, you need a scale that goes at least to 0.01 grains.

I shot a 6 card ARA factory class match yesterday with Tenex that was weight sorted. It was the third bench rest match I've shot, and my best performance so far. I give credit to that due to the wind that completely stopped blowing during the shooting of my second card. But the weight sorting and velocity testing I did gave me a lot of confidence in the ammo I was using, and that has value.

 

[gkgeiger]

I watched Brian Thompson’s video on weighing and he uses grams instead of grains. I weighed about 300rds today and sorted into 6 groups. If we don’t get rained out tomorrow I’ll see if it was worth it. Kept me busy for about an hour.

 

[Booner1334]

Would you please report back with your results. Thanks for the tip on weighing with grams instead of grains. I'll try that. I would think using grains would be better than grams as it's a finer measurement.

 

[gkgeiger]

We did have a match yesterday. We had a bad thunderstorm just before we started. The wind was rough, but for me I think this is going to help. Scores were lower then normal for our shooter. I managed to shoot a 2300 and a 2085. I believe it was for second in class. I'm shooting a new gun with only about 200 rds down. I'm weighing another few boxes right now. I think the biggest challenge is going to be getting a really good scale. My $19 job needs to be calibrated often. If I see good results I will seek a good scale.

 

[gkgeiger]

I just thought I would add that the ammo I weighed was SK Std. Plus and I got a variation of .06 gr in weight. I thought I would weigh my Center X for my custom rifle and see how it did. I only weighed about a box and a half and only got a handful that were beyond the group avg. I found out why match ammo is better/more expensive. The variation on the sample I did was about .004-.006 gr. I'm sure some of you already knew this.

 

[Booner1334]

Going down that rabbit hole a little further..................

I addition to my above post about weight sorting, I'm now adding rim thickness to the confusion. Again, the internet says it's a waste of time, but I need to find that out for myself. We're shooting a round that headspaces off the rim, so it would seem to me that the rim thickness may make, at least a tiny bit of difference? Last week in a factory bench rest match I twice missed shooting a perfect score of 2500, (I scored 2450). In ARA, we use "worst edge" scoring, so if my bullet just barely touches the line, I get the lower points. If weeding out a few variable helps my shooting by fractions of an inch, all this fussing may be worth it.

I purchase 5 boxes of Eley Tenex today and a Hornady rim thickness measurement gauge.

Of the 250 rounds:
rim thickness & count
0.037" ---- 24
0.0375"---113
0.028" -----81
0.0385-----29
0.039--------3
250
Over on Rimfire Central I saw a guy (pistol guy at dayattherange?), post his results for sorting rim thickness and weight and his groups improved due to sorting.

I'm going to shoot these rounds someday when there's no wind in order to negate that variable, at 50 yards on some of my ARA targets and score them as if I were in a match. I'm trying to wean out the fliers on this "top quality" .22 ammo.

 

[justin amateur]

Booner...I'm beginning to think you might be almost as OCD as me.
Always having to try out those internet claims for y'erself.

Not that that's a bad thing...