260 or 7mm-08

[308garand]

I am looking to rebarrel my .308 and for the first time I am looking for something other than the .308. I have pretty much narrowed my choices down to either a .260 or 7mm-08. I have looked at info. for these two until I am now more unsure than ever which one I want. I would like to hear some input from some of you that have actually made this decision.

Facts:
*Rifle will be used for shooting steel out to 1000yrds and eventually further.
*Rifle will also be used for an occasional hunt ( varmint up to deer and hog).
*I reload.
*Gun will not be used in comps.
*Recoil is not an issue. I have been shooting the .308 with 208gr Amaxes.
*Barrel will be no longer than 24".

One of the things that I am wondering about is barrel life. I know there are lots of variable that go into that, but what I am wondering is what would the estimated barrel life be for these two in a non comp gun.

So, given all of this which would you choose and why?

308

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

They're the same to 1000, more or less. The 260 is a touch flatter, the 708 is a touch less drift. Past 1000, the 7 begins to perform better, but it's mainly academic and "on paper". In real life you won't be able to tell the difference.

Past 1000, the 708 will show misses in the dirt a little better.

All other things equal, the 708 barrel will outlast the 260. Expect ~3000-4000 from a non abused 260 and ~4000-5000 from the 7.

 

[Pbailey]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

I cant speak for the 7mm but the 260 is an awesome round! The 24" barrel will be fine, and recoil is nill. I have found that 43.8 grains of H4350 gives me 2900 fps out of a 26" barrel and will drop deer out there for a long ways.

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Everything I had read lead me to the .260, and I'm very happy with it. Both of these calibers are taken from the .308 case. From what I had read, the .260 was a wildcat round in the 70's that benchrest shooters made for 1000 yard shooting, pretty much what the 6.5-284 is like today. The .260 has less wind drift, less drop than the .308, because the 6.5 is a slippery, thin bullet (the flying spear), and therefore, I believe that would be the case when compared to a 7mm, though probably not to the same degree. In order to get the ballistic coefficiant with the 7mm that you would have with a .260 (6.5mm), you're going to probably need to jump up to a 160ish grain bullet, compared to a 142grain bullet in 6.5... Fired from the same case, you wouldn't have the same flat, fast speed in 7mm-08 that you could get with the .260. That's not to say the 7mm-08 doesn't have potential, it's a very good round, with probably a touch more barrel life than a .260. But to beat the .260's ballistics, with a 7mm bullet, I be leave you're going to need to go up in bullet weight, and up in case size.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Run JBM Ballistics on your intended loads and should give you a winner (if not by much). They are very similar so I say go with your gut.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

As a reloader, one of the things I look at is availability and variety of components. Grafs lists 101 ways to buy bullets for the 7mm and 105 for a 6.5 (.260). If you have no real need for something exotic, sticking with 308 opens your options up to 284 choices.

It's fun to split hairs and want new things, I'm right there with ya. I know you said you were looking for something different, nothing wrong with that. But average guys like us that don't compete or don't use a rifle for work or put our life in its hands don't necessarily *need* to split hairs over the 2" difference a half mile away between these choices. That's like putting titanium valve spring keepers in your family sedan because they found an extra 200 RPM in a race car that way.

 

[George63]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

while both will work, the 7 is a better choice for potentially hard to kill game like a hog

 

[Nortex]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">while both will work, the 7 is a better choice for potentially hard to kill game like a hog </div></div>

Why is that? I'm a 7mm fan but the 6.5 Swedish has been killing moose for years so the short action copy 260 should do just as well. Unless using light for caliber 7mm pills both offer exceptional sectional density numbers which helps any hunting round.

 

[George63]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

moose does not have the gristle plates or potential aggressive behavior like a hog- the usual consensus is heavy is better, even 300-400 gr projectiles in a 45-70

7 projectiles go heavier and those suitable for large game are more abundant/available than for 6.5

like the 6.5 on moose, deer are commonly killed by poachers with 22 magnum - it does not mean that given a wide variety of choices something that is commonly used is the preferred choice

260 and 7-08 is splitting hairs, but that is what the OP is looking for - help with the hair splitting

 

[Nortex]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Pigs are not hard to kill by any means poor shot placement is more to blame than bullet inadequacy. My favorite medicine for pigs is a 22-250 with 60gr partitions for behind the shoulder or 55gr Nodsler BT's put in the ear and I've never had a problem. My dad favors a 25-06 with a 110 Accubond ans has no issue's with pigs up to 250lbs.

 

[UNCIVILIZED]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Magazine length might be worth factoring into this. If you've got something like a Wyatt's longer internal magazine, or a DBM system with space for a bit more COAL, then it might be a touch easier to load the 7-08 with the longer, higher BC slugs. With such a setup, you'll retain more case capacity [& thus MV] when using the longer of the available 7mm slugs. Just a thought.

The flipside is that while you mention you reload, there seems to be a good deal more match grade .260 out there than is the case if you go with 7-08.

On barrel life, were it me, I'd be thinking melonite. And thus have few worries about burning it out for quite a while.

 

[Jedi]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

284 shehane my choice

I wont run anything based on 308, piss poor case design

many opt that do same with less powder

XC, CM, X47 n SLR

 

[George63]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pigs are not hard to kill by any means poor shot placement is more to blame than bullet inadequacy. My favorite medicine for pigs is a 22-250 with 60gr partitions for behind the shoulder or 55gr Nodsler BT's put in the ear and I've never had a problem. My dad favors a 25-06 with a 110 Accubond ans has no issue's with pigs up to 250lbs. </div></div>

that is all good, but not at all the question/ issue posed by the OP

If the items I have mentioned favoring the 7 over 6.5 are not valid, I am interested in any "pertinent" information

 

[dar1246]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

I have shot the 260 for years. One thing I always hated about the 260 when you reload for this round. When loading hotter rounds. The primer pockets stretch out and your brass doesn't last as long. Very happy with the results of my 260s.
I tried a 6.5 Creedmoor the Brass only lasted 3 firings before losing about half of the brass to primer pockets stretching out.
So, I built a 6.5 x 47 and try it out. The brass last longer with almost the same speeds. This is a better choice in my opinion. The brass cost is higher but it last. I think just a better design than the other two.
I think the 7mm-08, you might run into the same thing.

 

[308garand]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Thanks for all the feed back.
As far as the hog I know that both will work I just want to make sure I am not giving up too much if I go with the .260.

I will be rebarreling a long action so seating depth isn't an issue. Also please don't suggest a different cartridge because of the LA. That isn't what this thread is about.

Thanks for all the input, keep it up.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

708 all the way better barrel life, more energy, same ballistics, long action will let you take full advantage of the heavy pills.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.......The brass cost is higher but it last. I think just a better design than the other two.
I think the 7mm-08, you might run into the same thing.
</div></div>

I don't think so.

In working with a friends 708, 45.5gr H4350 and a 162 amax goes ~2775-2800fps. Brass was Federal GMM. I have loaded the same brass 8 or 9 times, and the primers still go in tight.

 

[SPfeiffer]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

getting ready to drop several grand on a custom 260 so my son and I can shoot together. this new 260 is the once in a life time gun purchase and I have no doubt that its the right one!

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the feed back.
As far as the hog I know that both will work I just want to make sure I am not giving up too much if I go with the .260.

I will be rebarreling a long action so seating depth isn't an issue. Also please don't suggest a different cartridge because of the LA. That isn't what this thread is about.

Thanks for all the input, keep it up. </div></div>
In a long action I'd go 7mm-08. You will be able to maximize the seating length of even the heaviest bullets. If Berger comes out with a 195 grain 7mm pill, you should have incredible long range potential (if your twist rate is fast enough).

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

With a long action, if I wanted performance, I'd choose .280 AI or .284 Win.

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

I agree with Tyler.
I understand you're looking at only a choice between .260 or 7mm-08, and my choice would be .260 between them. But with a long action and choosing 7mm pills, .284 Winchester, 280AI, or 7mm Rem Mag would push those heavier rounds REALLY nice. I have a 7mag, but that .284 Winchester always interested me.. That seemed like a well designed round.

"In a long action I'd go 7mm-08. You will be able to maximize the seating length of even the heaviest bullets. If Berger comes out with a 195 grain 7mm pill, you should have incredible long range potential (if your twist rate is fast enough)"

I agree there too... But I wonder if case life would take a hit (?)

 

[308garand]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

I like the .284 but it looks like brass isn't ever available. I know I can resize 6.5x284 but that seems to have the same availability issue as well as more expensive.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Upstate Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with Tyler.
I understand you're looking at only a choice between .260 or 7mm-08, and my choice would be .260 between them. But with a long action and choosing 7mm pills, .284 Winchester, 280AI, or 7mm Rem Mag would push those heavier rounds REALLY nice. I have a 7mag, but that .284 Winchester always interested me.. That seemed like a well designed round.

"In a long action I'd go 7mm-08. You will be able to maximize the seating length of even the heaviest bullets. If Berger comes out with a 195 grain 7mm pill, you should have incredible long range potential (if your twist rate is fast enough)"

I agree there too... But I wonder if case life would take a hit (?) </div></div>

I'd think brass life a better "trade-off" than barrel life, though loading the 7-08 case hot enough to push a 195 grain pill would also have the downside of throat burning...

I mean, it all comes down to how much powder we're burning relative to the bore diameter, right?

 

[7mmRM]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Either is GTG. Id pick the 708 every time for better bbl life, a bit better in the wind and more downrange energy.

 

[308garand]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Thanks for all the info. I know that the two cartridges are really just splitting hairs but that is what I needed help with. I think based on my initial thoughts and the reinforcement that I have gotten here I am going to go with the 7mm-08.

Because I will be using this for some hunting and not for comp I think the 7 is a better choice for me. Also where I am able to shoot 1000+ yards the wind usually blows. It is easier to allow for the drop than it is drift.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[Jaytrigger]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

I was wondering between the 260 and 308 myself and ended up with the 260 since I reload.

 

[RyanMcIntyre]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

So out of curiosity, since I'm watching this thread and learning from everyone - can 7mm-08 or 260 brass be formed from 308 brass?

 

[Adam B]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

you can form it out of either, I have done both, it is less work to use 708 brass

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanMcIntyre</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So out of curiosity, since I'm watching this thread and learning from everyone - can 7mm-08 or 260 brass be formed from 308 brass? </div></div>

Yes, but...

It's not ideal. 308 brass is shorter than 243/260/708 brass, and the necks tend to end up a bit too thick.

 

[c1steve]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

I would recommend the 7-08, partly because of the 24" barrel length. The 24" barrel length will be ideal for a 7-08, and about 2" short of ideal for a .260.

Also the 7-08 will have a longer barrel life, probably 1,500 rounds above the .260. The .260 does have moderately better ballistics, but these are somewhat negated with a 24" barrel.

Every time I go to the range with my 260, I am thinking...there goes another 3% of the barrel...

 

[Nortex]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pigs are not hard to kill by any means poor shot placement is more to blame than bullet inadequacy. My favorite medicine for pigs is a 22-250 with 60gr partitions for behind the shoulder or 55gr Nodsler BT's put in the ear and I've never had a problem. My dad favors a 25-06 with a 110 Accubond ans has no issue's with pigs up to 250lbs. </div></div>

that is all good, but not at all the question/ issue posed by the OP

If the items I have mentioned favoring the 7 over 6.5 are not valid, I am interested in any "pertinent" information </div></div>

The only advantage the 7 has over the 6.5 is energy and energy doesn't matter much. My statement above was in your regard that pigs are some hard to kill animals when they are not. Between the two rounds questioned there is not enough difference to even judge one over the other. You are the one that touted the 7mm-08 is vastly more capable when the case in point is they are dang near identical.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

7MM08 gets my vote. Don't need a LA for it. I use 168 SMK and it far exceeds 308 performance at 1000 yards.

 

[shoedo]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Is there an advantage to a 26 inch barrel in .260 over a 24 inch barrel. I've read that shooters are getting away from 28-30 inch barrels and opting for the shorter lengths.

 

[Chiller]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RyanMcIntyre</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So out of curiosity, since I'm watching this thread and learning from everyone - can 7mm-08 or 260 brass be formed from 308 brass? </div></div>

Why would you want to do this?

 

[shoedo]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

How long do your barrels last on average?

 

[Chiller]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

2-3k on the 6.5 family

7-08 have yet to wear one out

 

[Chiller]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 308garand</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking to rebarrel my .308 and for the first time I am looking for something other than the .308. I have pretty much narrowed my choices down to either a .260 or 7mm-08. I have looked at info. for these two until I am now more unsure than ever which one I want. I would like to hear some input from some of you that have actually made this decision.

Facts:
*Rifle will be used for shooting steel out to 1000yrds and eventually further.
*Rifle will also be used for an occasional hunt ( varmint up to deer and hog).
*I reload.
*Gun will not be used in comps.
*Recoil is not an issue. I have been shooting the .308 with 208gr Amaxes.
*Barrel will be no longer than 24".

One of the things that I am wondering about is barrel life. I know there are lots of variable that go into that, but what I am wondering is what would the estimated barrel life be for these two in a non comp gun.

So, given all of this which would you choose and why?

308 </div></div>

7-08 with the 162 AMAX and drive on.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Curious how you've come to the conclusion 7mm-08 is superior for hunting? I'll bet you'll never find an animal that can tell you which one it was shot with.

 

[rusty815]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

7-08 gets my vote, I have one in a 22" barrel and can get 2800fps from the 140's and 2680fps with the 162's, out of a 24" barrel you can do much better. As a long range round, the high BC of the 7mm bullets will kick the butt out of any 6.5mm round.

 

[bkster]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

7mm08
i have both but the difference in impact at 400 yds on steel
is huge.... for competition only the 260 is faster for me.


alot more hunting bullets in 7 as well

 

[tigerfan_9]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Curious how you've come to the conclusion 7mm-08 is superior for hunting? I'll bet you'll never find an animal that can tell you which one it was shot with. </div></div>

Exactly, ask PGS about how the .260 kills....he's done extensive "research" on this from antelope to Alaskan brown bear.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rusty815</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7-08 gets my vote, I have one in a 22" barrel and can get 2800fps from the 140's and 2680fps with the 162's, out of a 24" barrel you can do much better. As a long range round, the high BC of the 7mm bullets will kick the butt out of any 6.5mm round.</div></div>

The 7mm/.284 only beat the 6.5 once you get to the 162/168 grain bullets and then you are dealing with about 200 fps less veloctiy as you stated the 162 @ 2680 where as in the 260 the 140 @ 2850 or better, i wouldn't say the 7-08 is kicking anythings butt.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

The 162gr Amax@ 2750 vs. 140gr gr. Amax @ 2850, are virtually identical out 1000y. For hunting, I would choose the 7mm, because of a wider bullet selection.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerfan9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 7mm/.284 only beat the 6.5 once you get to the 162/168 grain bullets and then you are dealing with about 200 fps less veloctiy as you stated the 162 @ 2680 where as in the 260 the 140 @ 2850 or better, i wouldn't say the 7-08 is kicking anythings butt. </div></div>

No.

Given equal barrel length, the 708 with a 162 is not ~200fps slower than a 260 with a 140.

It is more like ~50fps.

A 24" 260 tends to hit about 2850 without issue, meanwhile a 24" 708 hits 2775-2800 without issue.

I agree that OUT TO 1000 yards, the 708 doesn't "kick 260s butt", but it is a small drift improvement. The 708 undoubtedly hits the steel harder, and absolutely throws dirt around better when you miss.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

The way I see it, 708 is a no-brainer UNLESS:

1. Low recoil is important to you
2. Ready-to-go Lapua brass is important to you

 

[SScott]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 162gr Amax@ 2750 vs. 140gr gr. Amax @ 2850, are virtually identical out 1000y. For hunting, I would choose the 7mm, because of a wider bullet selection. </div></div>
This,
I run a 7mm08 shooting 162 Amax in comps, but the next barrel will ba a 260, because I don't hunt with it and don't need the extra energy that it provides at long range compared to the 260. I feel that for comps it is too much gun, meaning that the recoil is more difficult to manage than the 260 and for close, small targets (say 6" plate at 500 yards) it makes it difficult to spot your own shot.
Since the OP stated he wanted to hunt with it, than the 7mmo8 is the winner.
Scott

 

[RFutch]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

7-08 guys,

Are any of you shooting the 175 smk? Seems like everyone talks about the 16x weight bullets the most. Seems like the ballistics are even better with the 175s.

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

Flip a coin.

In my neck of the woods 7-08 brass and 7mm bullets are more available at gun shops than 260 brass and 6.5mm bullets, but availability is pretty much identical from Midsouth, Midway, etc.

500' ASL, 59°F, 0% humidity, Shooter ballistic app
260 Rem, 140gr Amax @ 2810fps (my load from 26" 1:8 barrel)
1000yd: 8.6 mil (308.3") drop, 2.0 mil (72.4") drift, 681 ft/lb

7mm-08, 162gr Amax @ 2775fps (seems to be a typical 26" velocity)
1000yd: 8.6mil (309.2") drop, 1.9 mil (69.8") drift, 795 ft/lb

As for "handicapping" a 260 with a shorter barrel...yeah you lose some velocity, but its not like it still doesn't have a pretty good amount of pep...

260 Rem, 140gr Amax @ 2700fps (20" barrel)
1000yd: 9.3mil (335.2") drop, 2.1 mil (75.8") drift, 612 ft/lb

308, 175gr SMK @ 2600fps (20" barrel)
1000yd: 11.8mil (425.4") drop, 3.0 mil (109.2") drift, 475 ft/lb

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RFutch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7-08 guys,

Are any of you shooting the 175 smk? Seems like everyone talks about the 16x weight bullets the most. Seems like the ballistics are even better with the 175s.

Is there something I'm missing? </div></div>

Not a 7-08 guy, but I've often wondered the same thing given how many 308 shooters use 208s...

7mm-08 and 175gr SMK
2600 fps @ 1000yd: 9.7 mil (347.7") drop, 2.0 mil (71.3") drift, 789 ft/lb
2700 fps @ 1000yd: 8.8 mil (318.5") drop, 1.9 mil (67.1") drift, 873 ft/lb

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

The recoil of 708 is noticeably more stout than 260.

As far as momentum goes: 162@2800 = 175@2600 = 140@3240 =115@3950

Energy wise: 162@2800 = 175@2700 = 140@3010 = 115@3325

Recoil is a function mainly of momentum. Thus, the 708 has more than a 308.

Meanwhile, the 260 has a significant amount less.

Another point here, is that 243 would need to do a 115@3950 to equal the 708.

Final thought: The 308 case is MOST EFFICIENT as a 7mm.

 

[2Shots]

Re: 260 or 7mm-08

You can argue this one all day. I am a big fan of both and have nothing bad to say about either. Both have good case life, good selection of bullets. I have shot really small groups with both. I pretty well shoot the 140 amax or the 142 smk in the 260, and the 162 amax in the 7-08. The BC of the 7mm stuff is outstanding. My next build will probably be a 7-08 with my stiller AW action I can load out to 2.90 and get a little more case capacity than my other actions. But you will find guys swear by both calibers. I have probably close to 4000 rounds on my 260 and it still shoots very well and have the same 1000 rounds of brass I bought when I built it. I'll be watching this thread to see what everybody else has to say. It'll probably be a toss up.