3 boxes FGMM, different packaging. 2 diff printed Velocity

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Prob already covered but my google’fu is weak today.

I’ve got some 168gn 308w FGMM

I noticed 3 different packages. Then noticed the white/blk box lists vel: 2,600fps while the other 2 list vel: 2,650fps

Any insight is appreciated

 

[roosterpig]

I don’t have any insight, but I have a guess. Powder changes for contracts?

 

[Mr. Z]

The black/silver box is 20+ years old.
+1 on powder change assumption.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

The black/silver box is 20+ years old.
+1 on powder change assumption.

Nice. Vintage pew

 

[deltawiskey]

I would be interested to see what you experience for velocities with each of them.
Do you happen to have a chronograph by chance?
DW

 

[mewillis]

Date of mfg. top box is the newest version, middle previous and never seen the bottom one, but MrZ says 20 years old. makes sense.

 

[roosterpig]

Chrono all three 20 shot strings for science!

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Current, old and oldest packaging.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

I would be interested to see what you experience for velocities with each of them.
Do you happen to have a chronograph by chance?
DW

Yes. A new garmin.

I’ll do some testing and report back.

 

[n2ishun]

Obviously the newer packaging is high speed/low drag.
50fps worth it seems.

 

[Baron23]

Current, old and oldest packaging.

Yes, if looking at the bottom pic. Opposite of looking at either first or second pic.

 

[Terry Cross]

Maybe they were guessing on the oldest box and finally bought a chronograph?

Could be a number of reasons.
We haven't seen any real velocity difference during any of the transitions.
Packaging might be reflecting something as simple as a change in the barrel length used to calc the MV.

 

[TheOE800]

Maybe they were guessing on the oldest box and finally bought a chronograph?

Could be a number of reasons.
We haven't seen any real velocity difference during any of the transitions.
Packaging might be reflecting something as simple as a change in the barrel length used to calc the MV.

There’s some dogshit covid production floating around in the fancy gold boxes though. And also single digit SD lots. Can’t tell which is which.

 

[Terry Cross]

There’s some dogshit covid production floating around in the fancy gold boxes though. And also single digit SD lots. Can’t tell which is which.

For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

 

[carbonbased]

For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

+100 on the Hornady QC.

As a 204 shooter I don’t have tons of factory options. My 40gr SuperPerformance Vmax is usually 150-200fps ES and 35-40 SD.

I’m no reloader but that doesn’t seem great to me.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

Could be nitro separation and the nitro is starting to crystallize. Ive seen it on old munitions but the date range and storage conditions were longer and worse. It wouldn't be enough to detonate like old grenades but might be enough to cause pressure issues and large es swings.

 

[Terry Cross]

Could be nitro separation and the nitro is starting to crystallize. Ive seen it on old munitions but the date range and storage conditions were longer and worse. It wouldn't be enough to detonate like old grenades but might be enough to cause pressure issues and large es swings.

Don't think that is it.

Ammo stored in climate controlled conditions and only transport vibration was initial delivery. No moisture. No light. etc.

Pulled 2 rounds and powder showed no obvious signs of breakdown.

Hell, we've shot 30-06 and 45 ACP ammo that is 80yrs old and stuff runs like a sewing machine with decent numbers!

 

[Baron23]

we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

They're putting out some real junk these days. Had a lot where the body of the cases weren't properly sized. Had to slam the stuff in to get the bolt closed. And no, the chamber was clean as a whistle...well, until I scraped brass off these cases and needed to clean that out.

Oh...and this was their 6.5 ELD-M...supposedly match ammo. Wow.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Don't think that is it.

Ammo stored in climate controlled conditions and only transport vibration was initial delivery. No moisture. No light. etc.

Pulled 2 rounds and powder showed no obvious signs of breakdown.

Hell, we've shot 30-06 and 45 ACP ammo that is 80yrs old and stuff runs like a sewing machine with decent numbers!

Just throwing out ideas. I have a ton of the Greek 3006 ammo in tins from the 50 from the cmp. It still shoots great but I never ran across a chrono to confirm. Just refinished one of my garands last week...need to take her out and bang some steel.

 

[carbonbased]

+100 on the Hornady QC.

As a 204 shooter I don’t have tons of factory options. My 40gr SuperPerformance Vmax is usually 150-200fps ES and 35-40 SD.

I’m no reloader but that doesn’t seem great to me.

RE: Hornady so-called “SuperPerformance” Vmax 40gr in 204 Ruger out of a Tikka with a nice 22” Bugholes Mueller barrel.

Here’s the chrono from tonight.

Hard to know if the groups are me or the ammo…

My older cache of the stuff is better than this. Not leaps and bounds better, but this newer stuff is really crap. And the older stuff I have has been driven/vibrated all over the place.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Found a 4th example.


2650. I’ve chrono’d this recently:

2665 fps

SD:12

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Further down the rabbit hole….developing deeper trust issues.

2600fps @ 2625 ft-lbs

2650fps @ 2620 ft-lbs

How do you LOSE fps and GAIN ft-lbs?

 

[roosterpig]

RE: Hornady so-called “SuperPerformance” Vmax 40gr in 204 Ruger out of a Tikka with a nice 22” Bugholes Mueller barrel.

Here’s the chrono from tonight.
View attachment 8515081

Hard to know if the groups are me or the ammo…

My older cache of the stuff is better than this. Not leaps and bounds better, but this newer stuff is really crap. And the older stuff I have has been driven/vibrated all over the place.

Hornady in general doesn’t like my long throated .308, but nothing in this world has shot worse than their factory Superformance/150gr SST load.

Hot rodded cartridge on the box is cool though

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

White box fucks.

SD was a bit more than I expected.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

Terry,

I read what you posted, read it again just now. I’ll keep an eye on it. This is all the same lot so I’m hoping I’m trouble free. It was a heavy box.

Rifle had a documented 110 round count prior to firing. I’ll keep an eye on it.

I appreciate your experience and forewarning, thank you.

 

[Terry Cross]

Terry,

I read what you posted, read it again just now. I’ll keep an eye on it. This is all the same lot so I’m hoping I’m trouble free. It was a heavy box.

Rifle had a documented 110 round count prior to firing. I’ll keep an eye on it.

I appreciate your experience and forewarning, thank you.

View attachment 8515722

Hey, don't take me sharing that experience as a pox on that era of manufacture. There is a bazillion rounds of that stuff that has been sent down range with crazy good results. Any company can FU. I was just one of the lucky few that got something weird. Those empties look just fine. I will try to find the cases I kept from that bad lot and share.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Hey, don't take me sharing that experience as a pox on that era of manufacture. There is a bazillion rounds of that stuff that has been sent down range with crazy good results. Any company can FU. I was just one of the lucky few that got something weird. Those empties look just fine. I will try to find the cases I kept from that bad lot and share.

Understood.

I’m barely learning what guys have known for a long time. I’m just enjoying the ride. It’s a neat hobby for me.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Orange box also fucks. POI shift minimal.

Yes, I’m still learning things you already forgot.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Took a box of “new batch”for a ride today. Didn’t get ALL the data. The data I did get was confusing. All rounds sent from the same box. Some were at 200 others at 100. I was not expecting an SD of 34. Is this a “nothing” and I should keep it moving on?

Forgot to dial back the 0.3 mil after the 200yd steel. At least I know the scope tracking is dead nuts.

 

[Baron23]

Took a box of “new batch”for a ride today. Didn’t get ALL the data. The data I did get was confusing. All rounds sent from the same box. Some were at 200 others at 100. I was not expecting an SD of 34. Is this a “nothing” and I should keep it moving on?



View attachment 8526030

View attachment 8526020

Forgot to dial back the 0.3 mil after the 200yd steel. At least I know the scope tracking is dead nuts.

View attachment 8526021

View attachment 8526047

How many shots in that data? If only six, its not statistically valid. Yeah, ES won't come down, but SD very well may.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

How many shots in that data? If only six, its not statistically valid. Yeah, ES won't come down, but SD very well may.

That string was 13 shots

 

[Baron23]

That string was 13 shots

Still might come down if you add more data. As I'm sure you know, the Garmin will close down a session when powered off and won't let you add. So, I just get the csv file into Excel and add more data then run average and SD in that program. Easy to do and let's me aggregate data from multiple sessions to get higher validity.

Best of luck

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Still might come down if you add more data. As I'm sure you know, the Garmin will close down a session when powered off and won't let you add. So, I just get the csv file into Excel and add more data then run average and SD in that program. Easy to do and let's me aggregate data from multiple sessions to get higher validity.

Best of luck

I appreciate the feedback.

I’m still learning the garmin. So far I’ve found it to be very enjoyable and a fine upgrade over the magneto in terms of set up and nervousness of shooting the darn thing.

 

[Aftermath]

For sure.
I have a case and a half of the old white and navy blue GM308M that has crazy pressure problems. It has been stored perfectly but Fed says the issue is from age deterioration. I'm saying nope. blowing primers and even getting some gas excursions from pin holes in the web of the case points to a crappy run of brass or similar.

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

I guess I'd be pulling bullets and piling powder then develop a safe load.

 

[chevy_man]

Regardless of that, I'm a Federal whore. Love the stuff and we still see more QC issues from Hornady than all the other brands combined.

Nothing beats the Remington I got with backwards primers and bullets. Freedom group era.

Considering I've seen stores with nothing but Hornaday on the shelf during ammo shortages they may do more volume than anyone else for civilian sales.

Took a box of “new batch”for a ride today. Didn’t get ALL the data. The data I did get was confusing. All rounds sent from the same box. Some were at 200 others at 100. I was not expecting an SD of 34. Is this a “nothing” and I should keep it moving on?

If you're not going to handload you're at the mercy of the factory and good and bad lots for your barrel.

I've had powder lots that needed to add/subtract 1+ grn of powder to maintain velocity with the exact same brass.
Brass can also vary lot to lot.


FGMM is usually good stuff, but I'd be looking at Berger for more consistency (which comes with more price).

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Nothing beats the Remington I got with backwards primers and bullets. Freedom group era.

Considering I've seen stores with nothing but Hornaday on the shelf during ammo shortages they may do more volume than anyone else for civilian sales.



If you're not going to handload you're at the mercy of the factory and good and bad lots for your barrel.

I've had powder lots that needed to add/subtract 1+ grn of powder to maintain velocity with the exact same brass.
Brass can also vary lot to lot.


FGMM is usually good stuff, but I'd be looking at Berger for more consistency (which comes with more price).

Ill have to post up some flipped primers and sideways loaded factory Bergers everyone is so happy with.

You tell the truth, hand load.

Been at it so long my factory ammo is old enough to vote.

 

[chevy_man]

Ill have to post up some flipped primers and sideways loaded factory Bergers everyone is so happy with.

You tell the truth, hand load.

Been at it so long my factory ammo is old enough to vote.

That's surprising. Never would have thought Berger would let that through with their premium price and image to maintain.

 

[Terry Cross]

Considering I've seen stores with nothing but Hornaday on the shelf during ammo shortages they may do more volume than anyone else for civilian sales.

Actually, no.
Hornady is actually quite small in regards to volume of total ammo sales in the U.S. market.

Their marketing is big in our space but they aren't even close on numbers.

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

@chevy_man to satisfy your curiosity.

No one is perfect, quite a few 6.5CM were fucked.

If @Berger wanted to replace these I’ll be pulling the primers first if not I’ll keep moving on w life. Pulled the powder and projos already.

260REM

Their 300WM is Norma brass. Forgot to pull the projo on far right. Need to recover these primers

 

[chevy_man]

@chevy_man to satisfy your curiosity.

No one is perfect, quite a few 6.5CM were fucked.

If @Berger wanted to replace these I’ll be pulling the primers first if not I’ll keep moving on w life. Pulled the powder and projos already.

View attachment 8530938

View attachment 8530939

View attachment 8530940


260REM
View attachment 8530942

Their 300WM is Norma brass. Forgot to pull the projo on far right. Need to recover these primers
View attachment 8530944

Ouch. For the prices they charge that's ridiculous.


Why haven't you contacted them for replacements?

 

[D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷]

Ouch. For the prices they charge that's ridiculous.


Why haven't you contacted them for replacements?

Because I don’t want to be called a liar, treated like a hostile witness or get some low level QC guy fired.

It’s easier for me to just move on with my life.

Maybe I’ll get karma points later in life.