300 Norma Mag

[Tazman308]

Just received my 300 NM and could use some guidance on load development. To start out I bought some Retumbo, H1000, and R33 along with Berger 230s. I bought 40 pieces of new Norma branded brass. I had a die cut specifically for the ABM230s. I gave the tool maker 5 rounds so he could cut a chamber specifically to shoot this round. To fire form the brass, I loaded the minimum start load of 84.5 grains of Retumbo per the chart below.

.300 Norma Magnum
230 Grain, PN: 30428 Bullet, CIP 3.680" COAL, 26" Barrel. 1/6/2015 RB
Bullet	Powder	Start Load In Grains	Approx. Start Velocity	Max. Load In Grains	Approx. Max. Velocity	Fill Ratio
230 Grain	Alliant RE 25	78.0	2695	82.3	2821	93%
230 Grain	Hodgdon Retumbo	84.5	2735	89.1	2874	100%
230 Grain	Hodgdon US 869	94.0	2669	99.2	2844	105%
230 Grain	Hodgdon H50BMG	90.0	2682	94.7	2848	105%
230 Grain	Alliant RE 50	93.5	2736	98.6	2913	103%

Because I lost my formal shooting range to the Napa fires, The first shooting of my new rifle was from a mountaintop at a gong 600 yards away. I just roughed out a zero and shot the 40 rounds at the gong. My initial impressions are WOW what a hammer attached to a later beam. A friend had a Lab Radar and recorded 2881-2893 fps vs 2735 predicted above. Granted I have a new Proof 28” barrel with a tight chamber but I was surprised to get 150 fps more than expected.

Now I have fresh fire formed cases, cases neck sized with .002 neck tension, trimmed, a somewhat conditioned barrel, Im ready to work on load development. I thought I would start a load, increasing by .2 grains, looking for a flat spot in velocity around 3000 fps. Question is, where should I start the initial load? The purpose of the rifle is just to be a fun shooter, working steel to 2000 yards. Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. I am super impressed with the potential of this caliber and look forward to wearing out at least one barrel a year.

Thanks in advance.

 

[bjay]

Just received my 300 NM and could use some guidance on load development. To start out I bought some Retumbo, H1000, and R33 along with Berger 230s. I bought 40 pieces of new Norma branded brass. I had a die cut specifically for the ABM230s. I gave the tool maker 5 rounds so he could cut a chamber specifically to shoot this round. To fire form the brass, I loaded the minimum start load of 84.5 grains of Retumbo per the chart below.

.300 Norma Magnum
230 Grain, PN: 30428 Bullet, CIP 3.680" COAL, 26" Barrel. 1/6/2015 RB
Bullet	Powder	Start Load In Grains	Approx. Start Velocity	Max. Load In Grains	Approx. Max. Velocity	Fill Ratio
230 Grain	Alliant RE 25	78.0	2695	82.3	2821	93%
230 Grain	Hodgdon Retumbo	84.5	2735	89.1	2874	100%
230 Grain	Hodgdon US 869	94.0	2669	99.2	2844	105%
230 Grain	Hodgdon H50BMG	90.0	2682	94.7	2848	105%
230 Grain	Alliant RE 50	93.5	2736	98.6	2913	103%

Because I lost my formal shooting range to the Napa fires, The first shooting of my new rifle was from a mountaintop at a gong 600 yards away. I just roughed out a zero and shot the 40 rounds at the gong. My initial impressions are WOW what a hammer attached to a later beam. A friend had a Lab Radar and recorded 2881-2893 fps vs 2735 predicted above. Granted I have a new Proof 28” barrel with a tight chamber but I was surprised to get 150 fps more than expected.

Now I have fresh fire formed cases, cases neck sized with .002 neck tension, trimmed, a somewhat conditioned barrel, Im ready to work on load development. I thought I would start a load, increasing by .2 grains, looking for a flat spot in velocity around 3000 fps. Question is, where should I start the initial load? The purpose of the rifle is just to be a fun shooter, working steel to 2000 yards. Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. I am super impressed with the potential of this caliber and look forward to wearing out at least one barrel a year.

Thanks in advance.

If this a fresh barrel. You should be seeing a gain fps after barrel settled.. For 28" you should see 3100 pretty easy with 230s.. Barrel aint cheap specially proof carbon if i can get 3050 with great accuracy from a set up like that id be happy.. I tried rl33 and it does give more fps vs h1000 and retumbo but its not as temperature stable. Its a ELR rifle for me so id stick to powder that dont give dramatically shift in impact specially at longer distance on different day/temperature..

 

[Long Range 338]

Does anybody have load data for the Hornady 225 ELD-M bullets?

 

[rem `06]

I tried rl33 and it does give more fps vs h1000 and retumbo but its not as temperature stable. Its a ELR rifle for me so id stick to powder that dont give dramatically shift in impact specially at longer distance on different day/temperature.

i can verify that too. i did a test in 20*f and lost 85fps from 70*f with RL33.

i get a weird bolt lift with Retumbo and H1000 that i do not feel with RL33 , lift is tighter with a double click at times with several charge weights? any thoughts?

i am considering trying N570 but never used the VIHT line of powder and it is rather pricey locally compared to RL33.

how temp stable is it relative to H and RL?

230OTM 300NM @3k 26"bbl


fyi, 3 cases were sent to forster to make my dies. I have 3-4 or so firings from my Norma brass and some pockets are coming loose, is it just time for new brass?

 

[bjay]

I tried rl33 and it does give more fps vs h1000 and retumbo but its not as temperature stable. Its a ELR rifle for me so id stick to powder that dont give dramatically shift in impact specially at longer distance on different day/temperature.

i can verify that too. i did a test in 20*f and lost 85fps from 70*f with RL33.

i get a weird bolt lift with Retumbo and H1000 that i do not feel with RL33 , lift is tighter with a double click at times with several charge weights? any thoughts?

i am considering trying N570 but never used the VIHT line of powder and it is rather pricey locally compared to RL33.

how temp stable is it relative to H and RL?

230OTM 300NM @3k 26"bbl


fyi, 3 cases were sent to forster to make my dies. I have 3-4 or so firings from my Norma brass and some pockets are coming loose, is it just time for new brass?

Ive been using standard 300nm brass..5-7x and i called it DEAD..ive been testing lapua 423 dakota necked down and turned neck to 300nm..15-17x loads and pockets still feels like a new NORMA brass..and i load them to i got ejector marks and flat fed215m primer lol

 

[Supersubes]

I tried rl33 and it does give more fps vs h1000 and retumbo but its not as temperature stable. Its a ELR rifle for me so id stick to powder that dont give dramatically shift in impact specially at longer distance on different day/temperature.

i can verify that too. i did a test in 20*f and lost 85fps from 70*f with RL33.

i get a weird bolt lift with Retumbo and H1000 that i do not feel with RL33 , lift is tighter with a double click at times with several charge weights? any thoughts?

i am considering trying N570 but never used the VIHT line of powder and it is rather pricey locally compared to RL33.

how temp stable is it relative to H and RL?

230OTM 300NM @3k 26"bbl


fyi, 3 cases were sent to forster to make my dies. I have 3-4 or so firings from my Norma brass and some pockets are coming loose, is it just time for new brass?

Your sticky bolt with retumbo and h1000 is just excessive pressure, nothing more.


Lapua and peterson are about to drop the norma brass, so the should solve the weak primer pocket issues.

 

[rem `06]

Your sticky bolt with retumbo and h1000 is just excessive pressure, nothing more.


Lapua and peterson are about to drop the norma brass, so the should solve the weak primer pocket issues.

thank you for the verification, i was thinking that but not certain. i ordered 300 - 230 tgt Hybrids and going to stick with rl33 then. looking hard at n570 though but not sure if the cost difference is worth it?

i signed up to test Peterson brass but have not heard a peep back? not is 300NM listed on their site. if they keep snoozing Lapua will be the winner, which is fine with me!

who is carrying the Lapua brass?

 

[Writer Rifles]

This was the reply from lapu/capstone when inquiring when the 300 Norma brass will be available:

This brass should be available stateside mid to late 2nd quarter through most of our master dealers.

 

[jaybigboy34]

My gunsmith has a reamer that has a .125 freebore. I am wanting to shoot the 215 berger hybrids. Will this work or do I need to get back in touch with him and discuss a reamer with more freebore?

 

[bjay]

My gunsmith has a reamer that has a .125 freebore. I am wanting to shoot the 215 berger hybrids. Will this work or do I need to get back in touch with him and discuss a reamer with more freebore?

My shortest Freebore was 210 and works well with 210 vld and 215 hybrids..IMO that bit short but mostly smith has troater anyway

 

[Supersubes]

My gunsmith has a reamer that has a .125 freebore. I am wanting to shoot the 215 berger hybrids. Will this work or do I need to get back in touch with him and discuss a reamer with more freebore?

It will need to be longer, more like .225.

 

[bas402]

on the 215 hybrids are you jumping or jamming? and how much?

 

[Gilly]

Got my 28” 9 twist 300 Norma out for first load development this week. 198 Flatline looks like it will be around 3090 with 84 RL26 using Warner’s 3.765 OAL jumping a long ways, more than I like, but groups were promising. More load development tomorrow.

Also my 230 Sierras showed up, will try to get a start on that this weekend too!

Left to right 215 berger-230 berger hybrid-230 Sierra

 

[Gilly]

Made it out shooting Norma today for second time and I’m more than impressed. I took the high node from first ladder test and loaded up 15. Fired the first 4 rounds at 100 well under half inch and averaged 3145 over lab radar. Was warmer today than last time but supposedly that 15 degree change shouldn’t bother RL26.

After those at a 100 I went right to 980. AB told me 5.2 mil and shot high, ended up at 5.0 for impact on next 3 rounds. Couldn’t see splash on plate so went out to check, 2 near dead center one 7” low. I was happy with results for only 20-25 rounds at this point. Me and a buddy sent a few more impacts at 980, thing is a laser!

Moved out to 1580 with last few rounds, wind was getting gusty at this point 13-16 mph AB said 11.3 mil elevation and by the time I walked it down to where I wasn’t shooting over berms behind target I was at 10.8 mil elevation needed! Ran out of ammo before getting last bit of wind dialed in. This shows a calibration velocity of 3202. Can’t wait to go back to 1580 on next trip.

Norma brass
84.0 RL26
198 Flatline
3.765”

980 target

 

[Milepost]

Made it out shooting Norma today for second time and I’m more than impressed. I took the high node from first ladder test and loaded up 15. Fired the first 4 rounds at 100 well under half inch and averaged 3145 over lab radar. Was warmer today than last time but supposedly that 15 degree change shouldn’t bother RL26.

After those at a 100 I went right to 980. AB told me 5.2 mil and shot high, ended up at 5.0 for impact on next 3 rounds. Couldn’t see splash on plate so went out to check, 2 near dead center one 7” low. I was happy with results for only 20-25 rounds at this point. Me and a buddy sent a few more impacts at 980, thing is a laser!

Moved out to 1580 with last few rounds, wind was getting gusty at this point 13-16 mph AB said 11.3 mil elevation and by the time I walked it down to where I wasn’t shooting over berms behind target I was at 10.8 mil elevation needed! Ran out of ammo before getting last bit of wind dialed in. This shows a calibration velocity of 3202. Can’t wait to go back to 1580 on next trip.


Norma brass
84.0 RL26
3.765”

980 target

Very nice!
Which bullet did you use for these loads?

 

[Gilly]

Sorry I missed that 198 Flatline

 

[Gilly]

Ok another range trip and getting settled in on some loads. Accuracy is awesome with both loads. Haven’t take the 230 to distance yet but will soon. 300 Norma is here to stay for me!

AIAX MC rifle
28” 1:9 Bartlien

230 Sierra
Norma brass
Cci 250
84-84.5 Retumbo node
3.685 OAL (.015 jump)
2945
Made it past 3000 with 86 but had pressure signs.

198 Flatline
Norma brass
Cci 250
3.765 OAL
84 RL26
3145

1580 yard target 198 load. Could’ve used another .1-.2 elevation but spotting these at distance is tough! Two center hits low are 198 the other 3 are 7 saum using 180’s

 

[jugi16]

Anyone here good at calculating ogive to the lands distance if I give them my reamer specs and bullet dimensions? If so PM me please. Need some numbers crunched for my 300 Norma.

 

[Spud61]

Looks like Graff & Sons are shipping Peterson brass. My back order just got filled.

 

[Laseredge]

Looks like Graff & Sons are shipping Peterson brass. My back order just got filled.

Let us know how it compares to Norma, I’m still waiting for Lapua.

 

[christopher.dow]

Looks like Graff & Sons are shipping Peterson brass. My back order just got filled.

Mine arrives tomorrow.

 

[bjay]

I hope will be better than norma brass

 

[Mormegil87]

I'm going to have a barrel spun up for my AXMC this fall and I think I'm just going to wait for the Lapua brass at this point.

 

[bjay]

I'm going to have a barrel spun up for my AXMC this fall and I think I'm just going to wait for the Lapua brass at this point.

I have both petterson and lapua on hand..i can tell you that they both really concistent vs that crap norma brand..ive been using necked down 423 dakota lapua brass so its safe to assume the lapua will last lot of loading..its also thinners vs pettersons its about 015 and petterson around 1-1500 thicker..norma is about 3k thicker vs lapua .this will give you idea on what neck size for no neck turn chamber...id say no less than 341..

 

[Mormegil87]

View attachment 6901968View attachment 6901969
I have both petterson and lapua on hand..i can tell you that they both really concistent vs that crap norma brand..ive been using necked down 423 dakota lapua brass so its safe to assume the lapua will last lot of loading..its also thinners vs pettersons its about 015 and petterson around 1-1500 thicker..norma is about 3k thicker vs lapua .this will give you idea on what neck size for no neck turn chamber...id say no less than 341..

Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind when I send everything off to my smith.

 

[anthonylombardo]

Great info, my 300NM barrel comes in a few days for my MRAD. Going to load and run a ladder test on 212 ELD-X and 220 ELD-X on H1000, will let you know how they turn out. Loading them on Hornady and Peterson Brass.

 

[LRShooter101]

You might want to correct/update the title to include "Load Data", it would help in a number of ways!

 

[jaybigboy34]

Does anybody have load data for the Hornady 225 ELD-M bullets?

I'm using 84gr of H1000 getting an avg of 2980fps. It's very accurate. I have shot it out to 2035 yards so far.

 

[anthonylombardo]

I just saw that Lyman's has a new long range reloading book for the 300 NM round as well as a few others. Just ordered it of amazon so we'll see what kind of data it has. The product description says' "Features a large selection of target bullets from berger, Lapua, sierra and Hornady"

 

[christopher.dow]

@Gilly I got 3050 out of your 84gn/Flatline 198/3.765 load from a new Bartlein barrel. Thanks for the load data!

 

[anthonylombardo]

Got the loading manual from Amazon today, they have a some good starting info from just glancing at it. The only thing it doesn't have are Hornady ELD-X and ELD-X data.

 

[Spud61]

Found a decent combination for the 225 ELD Match today. RE-33 90.0, Fed215, new Peterson brass. 2997 out of a 28" 8 twist X-Caliber on Savage Stealth. 0.6 MOA.

 

[Spud61]

Found a decent combination for the 225 ELD Match today. RE-33 90.0, Fed215, new Peterson brass. 2997 out of a 28" 8 twist X-Caliber on Savage Stealth. 0.6 MOA.

Oh, and a 0.020" jump 3.609 OAL. All things being equal, Peterson new brass is about 35fps faster than new Norma.

 

[Spud61]

You are leaving a little on the table with that load.

I test fired the 225 ELD-M from 91.2grs RE33 up to 93.2grs (maximum suggested according to Berger). I started seeing pressure at about 92.8, with fairly flat primers at 93.2. Not terrible though, bolt lift was still good. My normal load is a 230gr Berger Hybrid over 92.6grs RE33, with a CCI 250 primer in Norma brass. I get 3050fps from that with a 26"barrel.

You can easily get that bullet up over 3100 fps and still have an accurate load. There are nodes up there. But if you like it where it's at, I get it.

Thanks for the data. What is your base to ogive length? I'm getting a stiff bolt lift at 90.5. Maybe the 8 twist builds more pressure.

 

[Mormegil87]

You are leaving a little on the table with that load.

I test fired the 225 ELD-M from 91.2grs RE33 up to 93.2grs (maximum suggested according to Berger). I started seeing pressure at about 92.8, with fairly flat primers at 93.2. Not terrible though, bolt lift was still good. My normal load is a 230gr Berger Hybrid over 92.6grs RE33, with a CCI 250 primer in Norma brass. I get 3050fps from that with a 26"barrel.

You can easily get that bullet up over 3100 fps and still have an accurate load. There are nodes up there. But if you like it where it's at, I get it.

I’ll have to work up to that. I have the same barrel from Proof coming in the next month or so.

 

[jonthomps]

Anyone have any other updates on how the Peterson or Lapua brass is holding up?

 

[bjay]

Ok another range trip and getting settled in on some loads. Accuracy is awesome with both loads. Haven’t take the 230 to distance yet but will soon. 300 Norma is here to stay for me!

AIAX MC rifle
28” 1:9 Bartlien

230 Sierra
Norma brass
Cci 250
84-84.5 Retumbo node
3.685 OAL (.015 jump)
2945
Made it past 3000 with 86 but had pressure signs.

198 Flatline
Norma brass
Cci 250
3.765 OAL
84 RL26
3145

1580 yard target 198 load. Could’ve used another .1-.2 elevation but spotting these at distance is tough! Two center hits low are 198 the other 3 are 7 saum using 180’s
View attachment 6878090

What freebore are you using?
Looks like a ticket for both long warner and 230smk..
Tnx

 

[WeiserBucks]

Peterson brass is for real folks! I fired the same piece 10x today, 87 grains of Retumbo and 215s . Primer pockets are still like new . For a legit torture test I FL sized it each time, figuring that would lead to a case head separation sooner rather than later , never happened.

Case head expanded .002" on the initial firing and .000" on subsequent firings. Had to trim 3x , got bored and started on the beer . I don't know how many firings it'll take to kill this piece, but I'm a believer!

 

[Precision Underground]

The difference in freebore requirements between the Warner and the others is huge, so you won’t ideally be able to run those three bullets in the same chamber. The Warner reamer is .112 freebore, and the 215/230 needs somewhere between .215 (saami) and .300. I had zero luck with the Warner 198 in my my gun and just re-throated my barrel to accomodate the heavy jacketed bullets. My barrel is an 8 twist Bartlein. Best I could do with the Warner 198 was about 5 moa at 640 yds. Bummer, I was really hoping they’d work. I switched to 208 eld and 215 hyb just to try and diagnose the problem. Even though they were seated way down past the neck in the Warner chamber, groups dropped to sub half minute at the same distance.

Digging up this thread as I’m about to start putting together a Norma. Did you throat for the flatline and it still not shoot well? I’m wanting to almost exclusively shoot the flatline but my fear is that I set it all up then they won’t shoot and nothing else will fit.

 

[Supersubes]

Digging up this thread as I’m about to start putting together a Norma. Did you throat for the flatline and it still not shoot well? I’m wanting to almost exclusively shoot the flatline but my fear is that I set it all up then they won’t shoot and nothing else will fit.

Yes, I chambered it with the exact reamer Warner uses.

 

[Precision Underground]

Yes, I chambered it with the exact reamer Warner uses.

ugh. Thats not encouraging. What brand barrel was it? NVMD just saw it was bartlein.

 

[Precision Underground]

Anyone have a set up that shoots the 198 Warner really well?

 

[MOUNTIC]

Anyone use H4831 in 300NM? I have about 11 lbs of it and I am running low on the H1000 as I shoot that in 4 different guns. I know the H4831 does well in 300 win, but I cant find anything on the 300 norma mag with h4831. I find data of folks using it on 300 ultra mag, and also others, but curious on 300 norma.

Thanks,

 

[Gilly]

Anyone have a set up that shoots the 198 Warner really well?

I have had very good luck with it I have a few posts in this thread with load data for it using RL26. My barrel was not chambered specifically for the flatline, I am actually jumping a long ways, need to look but its the most jump I have ever had. My die stays set the same for 230 smk at .015 jump and gets me exact OAL that Warner recommends 3.765" and shoots very well probably luck but worked out well.

Have not shot many flatlines as spotting was more than a challenge especially early this spring when it was wet. I could probably get a bullet splash now to kick up some dust but if it wasn't on steel first round it was a guess where it went most of the time.

 

[Precision Underground]

I have had very good luck with it I have a few posts in this thread with load data for it using RL26. My barrel was not chambered specifically for the flatline, I am actually jumping a long ways, need to look but its the most jump I have ever had. My die stays set the same for 230 smk at .015 jump and gets me exact OAL that Warner recommends 3.765" and shoots very well probably luck but worked out well.

Have not shot many flatlines as spotting was more than a challenge especially early this spring when it was wet. I could probably get a bullet splash now to kick up some dust but if it wasn't on steel first round it was a guess where it went most of the time.

Gawd I hate no trace, no splash shots. May as well take a bullet and throw it in the trash can lol. What brand barrel is shooting them well?

 

[Gilly]

Bartlien 28 inch 1:9 twist

 

[Precision Underground]

Bartlien 28 inch 1:9 twist

I just ordered a rock creek 9t. I decided not to chamber for the 198 and just shoot bergers with the hope that the 198 will still shoot and I can use them for 1500+.

 

[Clearlight]

Having issues tuning my 300NM with 225 ELDMs , they want to be near the lands , but any closer than
0.010 sees the ES go silly . Any more jump than 0.025 and groups are poor . Best load was :
ES 4 SD 2.3
84.7 of H1000
0.015 jump
CCI 250
28 inch 8 tw Bartlein
Just under 0.5 MOA for 3 shots ( barrel life ! )

No 1 and 2 below are best load with 225 .

Below is pic of 230 Hybrid load .

 

[MOUNTIC]

Having issues tuning my 300NM with 225 ELDMs , they want to be near the lands , but any closer than
0.010 sees the ES go silly . Any more jump than 0.025 and groups are poor . Best load was :
ES 4 SD 2.3
84.7 of H1000
0.015 jump
CCI 250
28 inch 8 tw Bartlein
Just under 0.5 MOA for 3 shots ( barrel life ! )

No 1 and 2 below are best load with 225 .

View attachment 6924027 Below is pic of 230 Hybrid load .

View attachment 6924029

Looks like you found a winner with that Berger. I am just about to start load development with the 225s in my AXMC. Hopefully I have better luck then what you are seeing as I just bought 300 of them to give a go.

 

[Precision Underground]

Having issues tuning my 300NM with 225 ELDMs , they want to be near the lands , but any closer than
0.010 sees the ES go silly . Any more jump than 0.025 and groups are poor . Best load was :
ES 4 SD 2.3
84.7 of H1000
0.015 jump
CCI 250
28 inch 8 tw Bartlein
Just under 0.5 MOA for 3 shots ( barrel life ! )

No 1 and 2 below are best load with 225 .

View attachment 6924027 Below is pic of 230 Hybrid load .

View attachment 6924029

Maybe they don't like the 8 twist? I thought I remembered reading that eld's didn't like upper end twist. I could be wrong.