Thanks for the heads up on that. Expensive bullets to get a barrel chambered up specifically to run and not get performance out of them. Not to mention finding a 9 twist AXMC blank is not an easy task where a 10 twist seems easier to find. Maybe I should rethink what I want to do. The 215 berger at 3050-3150 from some loads I have seen here is nothing to sneeze at!
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Thanks for the heads up on that. Expensive bullets to get a barrel chambered up specifically to run and not get performance out of them. Not to mention finding a 9 twist AXMC blank is not an easy task where a 10 twist seems easier to find. Maybe I should rethink what I want to do. The 215 berger at 3050-3150 from some loads I have seen here is nothing to sneeze at!
It’s unfortunate for sure. I really liked dealing with Dan and crew, excellent CS. Don’t mind the cost of them either. If they make some changes i’d try them again.
Youre right about rhe 215. Don’t overlook the 225 eld too. Exceeds the 230 bc for $20/box less.
Have you tried the cutting edge Lazer series? May be worth a shot. I don't have any measurements off hand, but they look like they could possibly work in a SAAMI spec chamber. Supposedly transition into transonic much better as well.
Disappointing to hear about the Warner's, as they have an impressive BC. I've got a few that I'm going to try out, as well as the CEB's and the Badlands Precision bullets.
At the end of the day, I have a feeling it's going to be hard to beat the 230 hybrids. The solids have their work cut out for them.
Just received my 300 NM and could use some guidance on load development. To start out I bought some Retumbo, H1000, and R33 along with Berger 230s. I bought 40 pieces of new Norma branded brass. I had a die cut specifically for the ABM230s. I gave the tool maker 5 rounds so he could cut a chamber specifically to shoot this round. To fire form the brass, I loaded the minimum start load of 84.5 grains of Retumbo per the chart below.
Because I lost my formal shooting range to the Napa fires, The first shooting of my new rifle was from a mountaintop at a gong 600 yards away. I just roughed out a zero and shot the 40 rounds at the gong. My initial impressions are WOW what a hammer attached to a later beam. A friend had a Lab Radar and recorded 2881-2893 fps vs 2735 predicted above. Granted I have a new Proof 28” barrel with a tight chamber but I was surprised to get 150 fps more than expected.
Now I have fresh fire formed cases, cases neck sized with .002 neck tension, trimmed, a somewhat conditioned barrel, Im ready to work on load development. I thought I would start a load, increasing by .2 grains, looking for a flat spot in velocity around 3000 fps. Question is, where should I start the initial load? The purpose of the rifle is just to be a fun shooter, working steel to 2000 yards. Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. I am super impressed with the potential of this caliber and look forward to wearing out at least one barrel a year.
Thanks in advance.
| .300 Norma Magnum | ||||||
| 230 Grain, PN: 30428 Bullet, CIP 3.680" COAL, 26" Barrel. 1/6/2015 RB | ||||||
| Bullet | Powder | Start Load In Grains | Approx. Start Velocity | Max. Load In Grains | Approx. Max. Velocity | Fill Ratio |
| 230 Grain | Alliant RE 25 | 78.0 | 2695 | 82.3 | 2821 | 93% |
| 230 Grain | Hodgdon Retumbo | 84.5 | 2735 | 89.1 | 2874 | 100% |
| 230 Grain | Hodgdon US 869 | 94.0 | 2669 | 99.2 | 2844 | 105% |
| 230 Grain | Hodgdon H50BMG | 90.0 | 2682 | 94.7 | 2848 | 105% |
| 230 Grain | Alliant RE 50 | 93.5 | 2736 | 98.6 | 2913 | 103% |
Because I lost my formal shooting range to the Napa fires, The first shooting of my new rifle was from a mountaintop at a gong 600 yards away. I just roughed out a zero and shot the 40 rounds at the gong. My initial impressions are WOW what a hammer attached to a later beam. A friend had a Lab Radar and recorded 2881-2893 fps vs 2735 predicted above. Granted I have a new Proof 28” barrel with a tight chamber but I was surprised to get 150 fps more than expected.
Now I have fresh fire formed cases, cases neck sized with .002 neck tension, trimmed, a somewhat conditioned barrel, Im ready to work on load development. I thought I would start a load, increasing by .2 grains, looking for a flat spot in velocity around 3000 fps. Question is, where should I start the initial load? The purpose of the rifle is just to be a fun shooter, working steel to 2000 yards. Any other suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. I am super impressed with the potential of this caliber and look forward to wearing out at least one barrel a year.
Thanks in advance.
If this a fresh barrel. You should be seeing a gain fps after barrel settled.. For 28" you should see 3100 pretty easy with 230s.. Barrel aint cheap specially proof carbon if i can get 3050 with great accuracy from a set up like that id be happy.. I tried rl33 and it does give more fps vs h1000 and retumbo but its not as temperature stable. Its a ELR rifle for me so id stick to powder that dont give dramatically shift in impact specially at longer distance on different day/temperature..
I tried rl33 and it does give more fps vs h1000 and retumbo but its not as temperature stable. Its a ELR rifle for me so id stick to powder that dont give dramatically shift in impact specially at longer distance on different day/temperature.
i can verify that too. i did a test in 20*f and lost 85fps from 70*f with RL33.
i get a weird bolt lift with Retumbo and H1000 that i do not feel with RL33 , lift is tighter with a double click at times with several charge weights? any thoughts?
i am considering trying N570 but never used the VIHT line of powder and it is rather pricey locally compared to RL33.
how temp stable is it relative to H and RL?
230OTM 300NM @3k 26"bbl
fyi, 3 cases were sent to forster to make my dies. I have 3-4 or so firings from my Norma brass and some pockets are coming loose, is it just time for new brass?
i can verify that too. i did a test in 20*f and lost 85fps from 70*f with RL33.
i get a weird bolt lift with Retumbo and H1000 that i do not feel with RL33 , lift is tighter with a double click at times with several charge weights? any thoughts?
i am considering trying N570 but never used the VIHT line of powder and it is rather pricey locally compared to RL33.
how temp stable is it relative to H and RL?
230OTM 300NM @3k 26"bbl
fyi, 3 cases were sent to forster to make my dies. I have 3-4 or so firings from my Norma brass and some pockets are coming loose, is it just time for new brass?
Ive been using standard 300nm brass..5-7x and i called it DEAD..ive been testing lapua 423 dakota necked down and turned neck to 300nm..15-17x loads and pockets still feels like a new NORMA brass..and i load them to i got ejector marks and flat fed215m primer lol
Your sticky bolt with retumbo and h1000 is just excessive pressure, nothing more.
Lapua and peterson are about to drop the norma brass, so the should solve the weak primer pocket issues.
thank you for the verification, i was thinking that but not certain. i ordered 300 - 230 tgt Hybrids and going to stick with rl33 then. looking hard at n570 though but not sure if the cost difference is worth it?
i signed up to test Peterson brass but have not heard a peep back? not is 300NM listed on their site. if they keep snoozing Lapua will be the winner, which is fine with me!
who is carrying the Lapua brass?
This was the reply from lapu/capstone when inquiring when the 300 Norma brass will be available:
This brass should be available stateside mid to late 2nd quarter through most of our master dealers.
This brass should be available stateside mid to late 2nd quarter through most of our master dealers.
My gunsmith has a reamer that has a .125 freebore. I am wanting to shoot the 215 berger hybrids. Will this work or do I need to get back in touch with him and discuss a reamer with more freebore?
My shortest Freebore was 210 and works well with 210 vld and 215 hybrids..IMO that bit short but mostly smith has troater anyway
Got my 28” 9 twist 300 Norma out for first load development this week. 198 Flatline looks like it will be around 3090 with 84 RL26 using Warner’s 3.765 OAL jumping a long ways, more than I like, but groups were promising. More load development tomorrow.
Also my 230 Sierras showed up, will try to get a start on that this weekend too!
Left to right 215 berger-230 berger hybrid-230 Sierra
Also my 230 Sierras showed up, will try to get a start on that this weekend too!
Left to right 215 berger-230 berger hybrid-230 Sierra
Made it out shooting Norma today for second time and I’m more than impressed. I took the high node from first ladder test and loaded up 15. Fired the first 4 rounds at 100 well under half inch and averaged 3145 over lab radar. Was warmer today than last time but supposedly that 15 degree change shouldn’t bother RL26.
After those at a 100 I went right to 980. AB told me 5.2 mil and shot high, ended up at 5.0 for impact on next 3 rounds. Couldn’t see splash on plate so went out to check, 2 near dead center one 7” low. I was happy with results for only 20-25 rounds at this point. Me and a buddy sent a few more impacts at 980, thing is a laser!
Moved out to 1580 with last few rounds, wind was getting gusty at this point 13-16 mph AB said 11.3 mil elevation and by the time I walked it down to where I wasn’t shooting over berms behind target I was at 10.8 mil elevation needed! Ran out of ammo before getting last bit of wind dialed in. This shows a calibration velocity of 3202. Can’t wait to go back to 1580 on next trip.
Norma brass
84.0 RL26
198 Flatline
3.765”
980 target
After those at a 100 I went right to 980. AB told me 5.2 mil and shot high, ended up at 5.0 for impact on next 3 rounds. Couldn’t see splash on plate so went out to check, 2 near dead center one 7” low. I was happy with results for only 20-25 rounds at this point. Me and a buddy sent a few more impacts at 980, thing is a laser!
Moved out to 1580 with last few rounds, wind was getting gusty at this point 13-16 mph AB said 11.3 mil elevation and by the time I walked it down to where I wasn’t shooting over berms behind target I was at 10.8 mil elevation needed! Ran out of ammo before getting last bit of wind dialed in. This shows a calibration velocity of 3202. Can’t wait to go back to 1580 on next trip.
Norma brass
84.0 RL26
198 Flatline
3.765”
980 target
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Ok another range trip and getting settled in on some loads. Accuracy is awesome with both loads. Haven’t take the 230 to distance yet but will soon. 300 Norma is here to stay for me!
AIAX MC rifle
28” 1:9 Bartlien
230 Sierra
Norma brass
Cci 250
84-84.5 Retumbo node
3.685 OAL (.015 jump)
2945
Made it past 3000 with 86 but had pressure signs.
198 Flatline
Norma brass
Cci 250
3.765 OAL
84 RL26
3145
1580 yard target 198 load. Could’ve used another .1-.2 elevation but spotting these at distance is tough! Two center hits low are 198 the other 3 are 7 saum using 180’s
AIAX MC rifle
28” 1:9 Bartlien
230 Sierra
Norma brass
Cci 250
84-84.5 Retumbo node
3.685 OAL (.015 jump)
2945
Made it past 3000 with 86 but had pressure signs.
198 Flatline
Norma brass
Cci 250
3.765 OAL
84 RL26
3145
1580 yard target 198 load. Could’ve used another .1-.2 elevation but spotting these at distance is tough! Two center hits low are 198 the other 3 are 7 saum using 180’s
I'm running a Proof 26" 1/9" barrel, and getting 3042fps out of the 230gr Berger Hybrid using 92.6grs RL33.
I'm not seeing any issues with temp sensitivity in RL33. I've set AB to 1fps per degree and it's very close. I think I'm going to move it to .8. I've also played with the 225gr ELD-M and like it a little better than the Berger. It's a little flatter out to 1500 and goes another 140yards before going sub, and it costs a little less.
Out of the powders I played with I definitely got the best velocity from RE33. I wanted to play with RE26, but a phone call and a long, very informative conversation with a Berger ballistician talked me out of it. It may work pretty well with the lighter stuff, but for the 230gr he said the fill capacity was too low and would likely lead to some very erratic pressure curves.
Bare in mind, that was all using something he said was like a proprietary version of Quickload. So it's all on paper. If someone has a RE26 load for the 220gr plus loads I would love to hear it.
I'm not seeing any issues with temp sensitivity in RL33. I've set AB to 1fps per degree and it's very close. I think I'm going to move it to .8. I've also played with the 225gr ELD-M and like it a little better than the Berger. It's a little flatter out to 1500 and goes another 140yards before going sub, and it costs a little less.
Out of the powders I played with I definitely got the best velocity from RE33. I wanted to play with RE26, but a phone call and a long, very informative conversation with a Berger ballistician talked me out of it. It may work pretty well with the lighter stuff, but for the 230gr he said the fill capacity was too low and would likely lead to some very erratic pressure curves.
Bare in mind, that was all using something he said was like a proprietary version of Quickload. So it's all on paper. If someone has a RE26 load for the 220gr plus loads I would love to hear it.
I'm going to have a barrel spun up for my AXMC this fall and I think I'm just going to wait for the Lapua brass at this point.
I have both petterson and lapua on hand..i can tell you that they both really concistent vs that crap norma brand..ive been using necked down 423 dakota lapua brass so its safe to assume the lapua will last lot of loading..its also thinners vs pettersons its about 015 and petterson around 1-1500 thicker..norma is about 3k thicker vs lapua .this will give you idea on what neck size for no neck turn chamber...id say no less than 341..
Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind when I send everything off to my smith.
You might want to correct/update the title to include "Load Data", it would help in a number of ways!
I'm using 84gr of H1000 getting an avg of 2980fps. It's very accurate. I have shot it out to 2035 yards so far.
I just saw that Lyman's has a new long range reloading book for the 300 NM round as well as a few others. Just ordered it of amazon so we'll see what kind of data it has. The product description says' "Features a large selection of target bullets from berger, Lapua, sierra and Hornady"
Got the loading manual from Amazon today, they have a some good starting info from just glancing at it. The only thing it doesn't have are Hornady ELD-X and ELD-X data.
Oh, and a 0.020" jump 3.609 OAL. All things being equal, Peterson new brass is about 35fps faster than new Norma.
You are leaving a little on the table with that load.
I test fired the 225 ELD-M from 91.2grs RE33 up to 93.2grs (maximum suggested according to Berger). I started seeing pressure at about 92.8, with fairly flat primers at 93.2. Not terrible though, bolt lift was still good. My normal load is a 230gr Berger Hybrid over 92.6grs RE33, with a CCI 250 primer in Norma brass. I get 3050fps from that with a 26"barrel.
You can easily get that bullet up over 3100 fps and still have an accurate load. There are nodes up there. But if you like it where it's at, I get it.
Thanks for the data. What is your base to ogive length? I'm getting a stiff bolt lift at 90.5. Maybe the 8 twist builds more pressure.
I’ll have to work up to that. I have the same barrel from Proof coming in the next month or so.
I don't recall the length off the top of my head. I have it written down though, I'll post it up. The 8" twist probably has something to do with the differences in pressure. 90grs is a lot of powder...
I know I'm jumping .030" in those test loads. but I haven't played with seating depths yet. I'll probably try .020, .040, .060, .080.
The 230gr Berger Hybrids were spot on at .030"
Peterson brass is for real folks! I fired the same piece 10x today, 87 grains of Retumbo and 215s . Primer pockets are still like new . For a legit torture test I FL sized it each time, figuring that would lead to a case head separation sooner rather than later , never happened.
Case head expanded .002" on the initial firing and .000" on subsequent firings. Had to trim 3x , got bored and started on the beer . I don't know how many firings it'll take to kill this piece, but I'm a believer!
Case head expanded .002" on the initial firing and .000" on subsequent firings. Had to trim 3x , got bored and started on the beer . I don't know how many firings it'll take to kill this piece, but I'm a believer!
Digging up this thread as I’m about to start putting together a Norma. Did you throat for the flatline and it still not shoot well? I’m wanting to almost exclusively shoot the flatline but my fear is that I set it all up then they won’t shoot and nothing else will fit.
ugh. Thats not encouraging. What brand barrel was it? NVMD just saw it was bartlein.
Anyone use H4831 in 300NM? I have about 11 lbs of it and I am running low on the H1000 as I shoot that in 4 different guns. I know the H4831 does well in 300 win, but I cant find anything on the 300 norma mag with h4831. I find data of folks using it on 300 ultra mag, and also others, but curious on 300 norma.
Thanks,
Thanks,
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I have had very good luck with it I have a few posts in this thread with load data for it using RL26. My barrel was not chambered specifically for the flatline, I am actually jumping a long ways, need to look but its the most jump I have ever had. My die stays set the same for 230 smk at .015 jump and gets me exact OAL that Warner recommends 3.765" and shoots very well probably luck but worked out well.
Have not shot many flatlines as spotting was more than a challenge especially early this spring when it was wet. I could probably get a bullet splash now to kick up some dust but if it wasn't on steel first round it was a guess where it went most of the time.
