Gunsmithing 300 norma vs 300 hulk

[bjay]

I already got my 338lm action.and already decided to go with flater traj.so 30 cal it is!
Heres what i gathered so far but i still need info or pros n cons between the two.i know both uses 338 norma case.one need to neck down other one neck down and fireform..im planing to use 210-240grainer and hoping to get 240 to 3000fps.this project main purpose to shoot 12000-beyond 2000yd..what barrel twist and length do i need? Which barrel make? Maybe ill try to hunt it oneday, medium palma contour or m24? What length? Im still debating if i should go with BDL or BDM..
Need all the help and advice..thnx SH
heres a reference. 300hulk left 338 norma on the right

j

 

[wildcats]

I'm using a Broughton 5c 9 twist 28" running 240Smk .300 Norma 30 degree shoulder.
You can get by with AIC 338 LM mags.
Bjay,shoot me pm and i'll help you anyway i can.
Also have the reamer.

 

[Goin'Hot]

I run a 30" 10 twist Brux on a 40° NM. I run the 230's at 3000 (Hybrids) or 3050 for the OTM's. If you're going to be shooting those distances, you won't need a repeater. I run a SS and have no desire for a DBM.

 

[bjay]

I run a 30" 10 twist Brux on a 40° NM. I run the 230's at 3000 (Hybrids) or 3050 for the OTM's. If you're going to be shooting those distances, you won't need a repeater. I run a SS and have no desire for a DBM.

I think i saw some of your old post.this is 300 NM 40degree correct? Im thinking maybe 27" barrel 1/10twist with BDL.what bdl is for lapua?

 

[Goin'Hot]

If it's going to be a target rifle to shoot to 2000 yds, why run the 27" tube???

Mine is a 40°. The Hulk has a 37° shoulder.

I don't understand your question about "BDL". Apparently, I don't know the abbreviation.

 

[bjay]

If it's going to be a target rifle to shoot to 2000 yds, why run the 27" tube???

Mine is a 40°. The Hulk has a 37° shoulder.

I don't understand your question about "BDL". Apparently, I don't know the abbreviation.

Bottom detchable with latch
or floorplate

j

 

[808Huntress]

I already got my 338lm action.and already decided to go with flater traj.so 30 cal it is!
Heres what i gathered so far but i still need info or pros n cons between the two.i know both uses 338 norma case.one need to neck down other one neck down and fireform..im planing to use 210-240grainer and hoping to get 240 to 3000fps.this project main purpose to shoot 12000-beyond 2000yd..what barrel twist and length do i need? Which barrel make? Maybe ill try to hunt it oneday, medium palma contour or m24? What length? Im still debating if i should go with BDL or BDM..
Need all the help and advice..thnx SH
heres a reference. 300hulk left 338 norma on the right

j

If youre shooting 12000 think you might need something a little bigger LOL!!! Just kiddin ya bjay but even at 2000 in Hawaii thats awesome if youve got a place to shoot that range. Both cartridges are great I would PM Will and see what he has to say and as far as BDL or BDM I think you should go with what best suits your idea or purpose youre going to do with this rifle. As GH has mentioned if youre serious about shooting at the ranges youre talking about than a SS is a strong consideration. But as with custom rifles for some the journey is as fun as the end result. Any info of a 2000 yd shooting range would be greatly appreciated ive got some rifles that need their legs stretched hahahaha

Aloha!!!

 

[bjay]

If youre shooting 12000 think you might need something a little bigger LOL!!! Just kiddin ya bjay but even at 2000 in Hawaii thats awesome if youve got a place to shoot that range. Both cartridges are great I would PM Will and see what he has to say and as far as BDL or BDM I think you should go with what best suits your idea or purpose youre going to do with this rifle. As GH has mentioned if youre serious about shooting at the ranges youre talking about than a SS is a strong consideration. But as with custom rifles for some the journey is as fun as the end result. Any info of a 2000 yd shooting range would be greatly appreciated ive got some rifles that need their legs stretched hahahaha

Aloha!!!

aloha muh brudah!
I didnt realize 12000 lol mesed up that kyn!
Hows about shooting to a couple mile

Daughter geting bored watchin us missing target started eatin her sliphazz lol

 

[Edds]

You can buy 300 Norma brass.

 

[808Huntress]

Awesome place to shoot bjay looks like Kauai? I wish we had places like that to shoot, Your daughter is too cute lol and I'm a she not a he hence the 808 Huntress LOL!!! Dont worry I get that a lot.

Aloha!!!

 

[bjay]

Awesome place to shoot bjay looks like Kauai? I wish we had places like that to shoot, Your daughter is too cute lol and I'm a she not a he hence the 808 Huntress LOL!!! Dont worry I get that a lot.

Aloha!!!

lady snipah? Aurai!
Yup thats kauai

 

[wildcats]

Yep,i wish we had places like that to shoot.got a few boomers that can use a range like that.

 

[Black max]

You should contact Tom Sarver about anything 300 hulk, he is a member here. He developed the round and used it to break the 1000 yd record. He also has a 7mm hulk that is crazy fast!!!

 

[bjay]

You should contact Tom Sarver about anything 300 hulk, he is a member here. He developed the round and used it to break the 1000 yd record. He also has a 7mm hulk that is crazy fast!!!

Beleived me ive been trying to get a hold of him.pm, email call even left a message..no luck! i think im chasing a ghost

 

[Black max]

Beleived me ive been trying to get a hold of him.pm, email call even left a message..no luck! i think im chasing a ghost

I know he is a pretty busy guy this time of year. He's not the kind of guy to ignore people interested in his work or wildcats that he has developed.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

Tom claims the 300NM is a ripoff of his 300 Hulk.

If that's the case, I feel bad for him, but would choose the 300NM because I wouldn't need forming dies to push shoulders back, trimming, fireforming and neck turning.

Last time I saw Toms tin of Imperial wax, it was damn near gone...and it was the BIG tin...

No thanks.

 

[AKONA]

Interesting thread. I was looking to jump up from the 300 winmag 'long' to something with a tad more horse power in the 30 cal department.
The 338 cases necked down are a no brainer but both a tad overbored. So I looked into the 300/375 and that falls a tad short. I also looked at the
dakota baseline given extra freebore and std. bolt face and also a tad shortchanged. Now I am looking at the Remington American Magnum that gives 105gr of H2O.
This might be a good donor but I am still researching. If I go the way of the wildcat I want this to be easy.
If I did a 338 I would be looking at the easy way that is necking down.turning and presto.
The case has to be able to seat the awesome 230gr berger (G1=.73) and the 197gr GS(G1=.827)

 

[bjay]

Tom claims the 300NM is a ripoff of his 300 Hulk.

If that's the case, I feel bad for him, but would choose the 300NM because I wouldn't need forming dies to push shoulders back, trimming, fireforming and neck turning.

Last time I saw Toms tin of Imperial wax, it was damn near gone...and it was the BIG tin...

No thanks.

Do you think NM can push 240smk to 3k fps? What barrel length would do it?im with you on fireforming etc..tom is mia hes not returning call nor email somehow im glad! This will make me do NM instead.i also have a buddy own NM with 30* shoulder litke improved? Sbould i go 30*? What gain will i get?

 

[Goin'Hot]

I doubt that a standard 300NM can push the 240's to 3K. I think you'll run in to pressure before you get there. My 40 degree Improved has the same internal volume as a piece of standard 338 Lapua brass. Here's one of mine formed next to a (neck turned) 300 NM and a 230 Hybrid.

 

[AKONA]

A couple of years ago I read an article in the long range magazine about some folks working with the 300NM. It pushed past the 3K. they used an 8 twist to be able to use the best bullets (including CNC) and
also avoid "jittery" trajectories when approaching transsonic range.
Let me see if I can find that article. It was pretty extensive. I can remember that.

 

[bjay]

I doubt that a standard 300NM can push the 240's to 3K. I think you'll run in to pressure before you get there. My 40 degree Improved has the same internal volume as a piece of standard 338 Lapua brass. Here's one of mine formed next to a (neck turned) 300 NM and a 230 Hybrid.

What about with 30* shoulder? 28-30" broughton barrel (ive heard 5c does drive a litle faster) the problem i have on ackleys shoulder. people tells me you need to run them hot or high preasure to get them work and shoot great.(is this true?) I proly stay 35* or less.by the way how fast can run 240? Spec on your rifle?

 

[AKONA]

I could not find a picture of the 300 RAM (Remington American Magnum) variant but I think it would look
something like the first one from the right.
This will give me a bit more than the Dakota chamber and it feels the best balance between powder capacity and COAL.
Water capacity: 105gr h2o.
Case length 2.580 in (65.5 mm)

QL says: 2950fps with the berger still below max pressure.

From Right to Left:
-300 RAM (more or less)
-300 RUM -parent
-300 Winchester Magnum
-300 WSM
-30.06
-308 Winchester.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I have a .30-.338 Norma Imp 35* and with a 30" Bartlein barrel it does 3075fps with 230 Bergers and VV N-570. I think with R-33 it will go 3150+fps but I haven't tried it yet. Mine has the 338NM shoulder dimension with a 35* shoulder and is throated kind of between perfect for 215's and 230's but closer to the 230's. I think it's .235" freebore. I would probably throat it a little shorter next time as it wouldn't give up much capacity to run the 230's with the throat for 215's. It's a 3/8" or less gun with N-570 but I'll look for another powder, that's available, to shoot in it for the next outing. It shot H-1000 under 1/2" too but it gives up some velocity. Since R-33 is more readily available I'll focus on it.

 

[AKONA]

I was able to find the article about the 300 Norma Magnum.
This was in the Sniper(Shooting times) edition from June 2012. Page 74.
The author Tod Hodnett talks about the new round and a new rifle he ordered from Preston Pritchett at Surgeon rifles.
The rifle is a surgeon with an eight twist Broughton barrel of 26" medium profile with a cut for the suppressor.
He also talks about the performance with the new berger 230gr and the Black hills 300 norma ammo.

In the article the re is a comparative chart between several loads including Win mag with the 230gr berger tactical and the 338LM with the 300 Sierras.
Transsonic range in meters
300 norma and 338 Lapua virtually the same at 1,540 meters. 1,470 for winmag with the G1:.712 230 grainer.

Elevation hold 1000 meters
300 winmag 7.76
338 LM 7.82
300 Norma 7.5!!!

Elevation hold 1Mile
300 winmag 17.76
338 LM 17.61
300 Norma 17

Remaining velocity 1000meters
300 winmag 1,739fps
338 LM 1,766
300 norma 1,784

Remaining velocity 1 mile
300 winmag 1,247fps
338 LM 1,298
300 norma 1,293

This article is supplemented by another nice article he wrote after taking a wounded warrior on an elk hunt with the same rifle.
Here they talk about accuracy loads in the 2912fps range also from blackhills but the norma can be pumped to 3000fps.
The do mention H1000 and retumbo but no data load. The harvested several bulls at long range with one shot kills.
The round seems to be very accurate shooting, flatter shooting than the others and easy to reload by simply necking down.
Very interesting in deed.

If I decide to go with a new action then this might be the one.

I hope this helps.

 

[AKONA]

Actually I found one of the articles! ... the wonders of the internet...

http://www.accuracy1stdg.com/content/docs/binder7.pdf

 

[ncboiler]

x

 

[AKONA]

I also found the article abut the wounded warrior he took on a nice hunt. They used the 300 Norma to take the bulls.
Hunting With Heroes by Todd Hodnett - Sniper Magazine 2012

 

[LRShooter101]

On the .300 Hulk, spent a lot of time shooting at TVP, and saw a number of Hulk shooters in action to include Tom. I was actually at an Intimidator match when a new course record was set with a .300 Hulk.

Personally, I can't say anything bad about Tom, but I do know that running a business is not his strong suit. He can shoot, build rifles, and is a hell of a nice guy, but unless something has changed, he is a one legged man in an ass kicking contest, trying to pretty much do everything by himself.

Not 100% sure on the story, but as I had heard, Tom had approached a manufacturer about producing the .300 Hulk brass, then the next thing you know, the .300 Norma pops up, and they are no longer interested in making the .300 Hulk?

If I had a range that I could stretch either one of those rounds out on, I wouldn't hesitate to grab either one, but I can see the benefits of going with the .300 Norma in terms of the brass. I could also see the benefits of improving the shoulder angle, if you are going to have time for the brass work.

Guess it comes down to, I want to shoot one when I grow up!

 

[Rprecision]

I was able to find the article about the 300 Norma Magnum.
This was in the Sniper(Shooting times) edition from June 2012. Page 74.
The author Tod Hodnett talks about the new round and a new rifle he ordered from Preston Pritchett at Surgeon rifles.
The rifle is a surgeon with an eight twist Broughton barrel of 26" medium profile with a cut for the suppressor.
He also talks about the performance with the new berger 230gr and the Black hills 300 norma ammo.

In the article the re is a comparative chart between several loads including Win mag with the 230gr berger tactical and the 338LM with the 300 Sierras.
Transsonic range in meters
300 norma and 338 Lapua virtually the same at 1,540 meters. 1,470 for winmag with the G1:.712 230 grainer.

Elevation hold 1000 meters
300 winmag 7.76
338 LM 7.82
300 Norma 7.5!!!

Elevation hold 1Mile
300 winmag 17.76
338 LM 17.61
300 Norma 17

Remaining velocity 1000meters
300 winmag 1,739fps
338 LM 1,766
300 norma 1,784

Remaining velocity 1 mile
300 winmag 1,247fps
338 LM 1,298
300 norma 1,293

This article is supplemented by another nice article he wrote after taking a wounded warrior on an elk hunt with the same rifle.
Here they talk about accuracy loads in the 2912fps range also from blackhills but the norma can be pumped to 3000fps.
The do mention H1000 and retumbo but no data load. The harvested several bulls at long range with one shot kills.
The round seems to be very accurate shooting, flatter shooting than the others and easy to reload by simply necking down.
Very interesting in deed.

If I decide to go with a new action then this might be the one.

I hope this helps.

I'm surprised the .300 WM ran so close to these wildcats/Norma's. From a outsider, what's to be gained over the venerable .300WM, I know the belt can be a pain, brass life ?

 

[bjay]

I was able to find the article about the 300 Norma Magnum.
This was in the Sniper(Shooting times) edition from June 2012. Page 74.
The author Tod Hodnett talks about the new round and a new rifle he ordered from Preston Pritchett at Surgeon rifles.
The rifle is a surgeon with an eight twist Broughton barrel of 26" medium profile with a cut for the suppressor.
He also talks about the performance with the new berger 230gr and the Black hills 300 norma ammo.

In the article the re is a comparative chart between several loads including Win mag with the 230gr berger tactical and the 338LM with the 300 Sierras.
Transsonic range in meters
300 norma and 338 Lapua virtually the same at 1,540 meters. 1,470 for winmag with the G1:.712 230 grainer.

Elevation hold 1000 meters
300 winmag 7.76
338 LM 7.82
300 Norma 7.5!!!

Elevation hold 1Mile
300 winmag 17.76
338 LM 17.61
300 Norma 17

Remaining velocity 1000meters
300 winmag 1,739fps
338 LM 1,766
300 norma 1,784

Remaining velocity 1 mile
300 winmag 1,247fps
338 LM 1,298
300 norma 1,293

This article is supplemented by another nice article he wrote after taking a wounded warrior on an elk hunt with the same rifle.
Here they talk about accuracy loads in the 2912fps range also from blackhills but the norma can be pumped to 3000fps.
The do mention H1000 and retumbo but no data load. The harvested several bulls at long range with one shot kills.
The round seems to be very accurate shooting, flatter shooting than the others and easy to reload by simply necking down.
Very interesting in deed.

If I decide to go with a new action then this might be the one.

I hope this helps.

If this with 300 norma mag then i made the right option of making mine improve 35 degree.. i dont want to as far as 40 * it might give me problem on mag feed

 

[Edds]

I'm surprised the .300 WM ran so close to these wildcats/Norma's. From a outsider, what's to be gained over the venerable .300WM, I know the belt can be a pain, brass life ?

There is nothing to be gained if you can get 3150 fps with a 230 gr bullet from a 300 Win Mag.

 

[AKONA]

There is nothing to be gained if you can get 3150 fps with a 230 gr bullet from a 300 Win Mag.

He doesn't explain his other rifles but anyone would be lucky getting anywhere close to 2800 with a long freebore version. In any case if you run
the rough numbers you will see it is not to far behind with the 230gr tactical berger. This is the reason I am looking into the RAM. I wish Winchester gave
us a long WSM+ as it has been a great case and strong but otherwise the RUM is the only sensible alternative. As I mentioned the 300/375 and dakota even with
a deep throat, and alternative std. bolt face, falls a tad short.
when you start to clearly overbore you do not get the same efficiency ratio. Now folks with 32" runways are going to claim higher speeds but that for me is unpractical for my purpose.

 

[bjay]

I doubt that a standard 300NM can push the 240's to 3K. I think you'll run in to pressure before you get there. My 40 degree Improved has the same internal volume as a piece of standard 338 Lapua brass. Here's one of mine formed next to a (neck turned) 300 NM and a 230 Hybrid.

What process do you fireform them brass? Powder? Load? And bullets

 

[Goin'Hot]

What process do you fireform them brass? Powder? Load? And bullets

I have a "clean up neck" chamber. A loaded round measures 0.338" at the neck and my chamber measures 0.338" so, I have to turn my necks to 0.336". I then loaded H1000 under 210 Bergers (jammed) and fired them. Viola, formed brass. It's been quite a while since I formed brass so, I can't tell you the exact charge of H1000.

 

[bjay]

I have a "clean up neck" chamber. A loaded round measures 0.338" at the neck and my chamber measures 0.338" so, I have to turn my necks to 0.336". I then loaded H1000 under 210 Bergers (jammed) and fired them. Viola, formed brass. It's been quite a while since I formed brass so, I can't tell you the exact charge of H1000.

I think i got 2lb left on h1000. Prety expensive bullets to fireform anyway is your reamer throated for berger 230? Whats the throat on yours im thinkin doin for 240smk

 

[Goin'Hot]

Mine is throated for the 210's which is why I form brass with them. It shoots forming loads excellent with them. Works quite well for the 230's as well. Never saw the need to try the 240's. I do have 500 of them though.

 

[bjay]

Mine is throated for the 210's which is why I form brass with them. It shoots forming loads excellent with them. Works quite well for the 230's as well. Never saw the need to try the 240's. I do have 500 of them though.

Ok lets wake this thread up.. my build is goind to be improved 35 degree.. can anyone help me on fireforming process? I might use cheaper amax 208 to fireform.my throat is set for 230 hybrids and 240 smk .256 throat. On 30" brougton heavy palma barrel. 1:9 twist 5c

 

[steve123]

I think i got 2lb left on h1000. Prety expensive bullets to fireform anyway is your reamer throated for berger 230? Whats the throat on yours im thinkin doin for 240smk

IMO ditch the 240 SMK and throating for it.

The Berger 230 hybrid is one awesome bullet! 240SMK/.64BC 230 hybrid/.743BC. Throat for the 230.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I would ditch the 240 idea too. If you make the throat too long and it doesn't like big bullets your done because the lighter ones won't usually like the big jump.


BTW Sierra list the 240 at .711 BC.

 

[bjay]

I would ditch the 240 idea too. If you make the throat too long and it doesn't like big bullets your done because the lighter ones won't usually like the big jump.


BTW Sierra list the 240 at .711 BC.

Ok.. but the plus .020 still good to go? Ill make the 230 3.62 touchin land so i can load 3.61?

 

[steve123]

I would ditch the 240 idea too. If you make the throat too long and it doesn't like big bullets your done because the lighter ones won't usually like the big jump.


BTW Sierra list the 240 at .711 BC.

That .711 listed BC is way off.

I copied and pasted this off another forum because I couldn't find another source....

Something to note For the 30 cal shooters out there;
Oehler also changed the 240 gr Sierra MK 30 cal down to a .644 BC instead of the .711 Sierra advertised for that bullet. The 220 Gr MK (.655bc) is now a bit better then the 240 as per BC.

I attempted to convert the Litz BC of .331 G7 using JBM and it came out to be .67 G1 BC.

I suppose I'd trust Litz BC more.

 

[Goin'Hot]

can anyone help me on fireforming process?

You could always use the "cream of wheat" method. I had good success forming 243ai brass with it. 260 Ackley Case Forming

 

[bjay]

You could always use the "cream of wheat" method. I had good success forming 243ai brass with it. 260 Ackley Case Forming

i prefer to shoot it with loaded round..i dodnt mind shooting 100 at a time..ill be using h1000 or maybe 4831sc just dont know amount of powder should i i start with

 

[Goin'Hot]

Just work from the middle to "HOT" load for a standard 300 NM. Run a ladder in 1/2 grain increments to find the node and maximum charge for a forming load with your chosen bullet and powder combo.

 

[bjay]

Just work from the middle to "HOT" load for a standard 300 NM. Run a ladder in 1/2 grain increments to find the node and maximum charge for a forming load with your chosen bullet and powder combo.

My build is soon start. I need to load some fireforming rounds. I got 50pcs brass 100(210 amax) and h1000 powder.where should start..anyway this for 300NM improved to 35* shoulder

 

[bjay]

Can anyone tell me whats perfect throat length for 230hybrids

 

[wildcats]

Considering the temps lately,just start with H1000 81-82 gr and be done with it.

 

[wildcats]

Can anyone tell me whats perfect throat length for 230hybrids

Is it a single shot or repeater?

 

[bjay]

Is it a single shot or repeater?

Magazine feed

 

[RobertB]

The hulk is an awesome round. It is a few steps in forming brass though. Very accurate and will shoot a ways. Nm has ready brass with a slight difference in performance. Tom Sarver can help you out. Google thunder valley precision. Good luck! Either way you go