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300 PRC update
- Thread starter DAVETOOLEY
- Start date
I'm not sure....but they will make u what ever you want....
They were not making any prc 300 when I asked them about making one....they said they would do it....mine is stamped 000008
And is the 2nd they sold
It's a gorgeous firearm....pics just dont do its justice
For the gunsmiths out there. Having pressure issues with sticking bolt since new. Free space area has always been very tight. Like solid marks around the whole bullet if pulled out. Today I was going to run some FACTORY 212 precision hunter rounds. First 2 were hard bolt close and pulled the bullet from case when tried to eject. VERY tight freebore area cause big case pressure?
Yes if there is an interference fit with the bullet it will spike pressure.
The obvious first step is cleaning, but after that it might be worth it to have the chamber cerosafed to check actual freebore dimensions. The PRC and Creedmoor calibers are fairly tight on the freebore, but there should be clearance. If you find yours is tight, check the reamer that was used and see if it meets SAAMI spec or if it's a little on the small side.
My guess is if it is a chamber/reamer problem it'd be easily corrected by slipping another reamer in there (even by hand) and cleaning up the freebore.
The obvious first step is cleaning, but after that it might be worth it to have the chamber cerosafed to check actual freebore dimensions. The PRC and Creedmoor calibers are fairly tight on the freebore, but there should be clearance. If you find yours is tight, check the reamer that was used and see if it meets SAAMI spec or if it's a little on the small side.
My guess is if it is a chamber/reamer problem it'd be easily corrected by slipping another reamer in there (even by hand) and cleaning up the freebore.
My local gunsmith did the work. I’ve been chasing pressure problem since new. Factory 225 match go in with a little effort. If you pull them they will have a scuffing all the way around the bullet. Been having sticky bolt pull for a while on all reloads. 74g-76g rl26. Betting this is the pressure issue?
Diameter, not length. Have him measure the reamer and compare it to the published SAAMI print.
PTG is notorious for effing up dimensions on reamers. Last year they sent a friend a .223 reamer with ZERO body taper, just went from shoulder diameter straight back...
PTG is notorious for effing up dimensions on reamers. Last year they sent a friend a .223 reamer with ZERO body taper, just went from shoulder diameter straight back...
He just called and said he lengthened the throut .020”. Both factory ammo shot and extracted good. Loaded one case with 74.0 g rl26 and bolt still sticks. Sounds like he’s pointing finger at powder causing the pressure and that’s that!?
He loaded up one case with RL-26 or did you? I just can't see 74.0 grains really causing that much trouble.
If you are scuffing at the front of the bearing surface, there’s very commonly a larger diameter section just ahead of the boat tail, which only exacerbate the issue.
Lengthening the throat .020 would do absolutely nothing. If he was thinking the extra jump would relieve pressure from the level of sticky bolt to completely peachy.....uh no! I’d have done what ledzep suggested, and cast the chamber. I also agree that PTG May have ground the freebore too small. What’s the fired neck diameter?
Edit: If he was able to just lengthen the throat, the throating reamer he used probably corrected the freebore diameter at the same time.
Ok. Went to shop today and measured reamer compared to bullets. They are same diameter of not tad smaller. It’s a slip/push fit to get bullets to the lands. And leaves marks the whole circumference of the bullet for pry 1/4”. Way too tight freeboar. And now that he’s lengthened to throat too far gonna have to cut and rechamber. That tight of a freeboar would be making pressure spikes I believe correct?
Harleydog my fired case necks measure .341 I got the barrel from Greg at SPR, he used a JGS reamer. No interference on bullet shank to chamber wall. Haven't had a sticking bolt on factory or reloads.
Bullets hit lands at,
Barnes 200LRX 3.615
Hdy 212 ELDX 3.655
Hdy 225 ELDM 3.720
Jon & crew put out top notch work. In fact, probably the most satisfied both in timeline and quality of work done with Area 419 of all the 'big name' shops I've used.
Not the same rifle but, I just picked up my Christensen 300 PRC Mesa. I've yet to put it on paper but it seems to be built pretty well for a HUNTING rifle. Plans to get it zeroed on paper and shoot it in the ballistics lab at work to see what the 225 match ammo is doing out of it and then go from there.
Greg at SPR spun up a 28in Bartlein 9 twist on a Defiance Deviant. I am very impressed with the inherent accuracy. Took it to the Talladega CMP yesterday to get the scoped sighted and a catch a few FPS numbers on the LabRadar for the ballistics calculator.
(Side NOTE: even on position 1 and the other shooters 15 positions away, it was rough getting readings. I think there was a sale on AR15's somewhere).
Having accomplished my early goal, I moved to the 600 yard range. to check my calculator and see what a 600 yard group would look like.
I can only say I love this rifle and Thanks to Greg Young @SPR !!! Some pics of the rifle and the target are attached.
(Side NOTE: even on position 1 and the other shooters 15 positions away, it was rough getting readings. I think there was a sale on AR15's somewhere).
Having accomplished my early goal, I moved to the 600 yard range. to check my calculator and see what a 600 yard group would look like.
I can only say I love this rifle and Thanks to Greg Young @SPR !!! Some pics of the rifle and the target are attached.
Attachments
Well, local gunsmith was solid enough to just refund my money and take the barreled action back and work on it himself. I have Alamo Precision Rifles making me a new one with defiance tactical action and Bartlein. Should be around 3 wk turnaround! That’s awesome I think and heard great reviews about them.
Mine should be in from Greg soon. A little tired of eating Ramen and off brand peanut butter...but I still got to pay for the JAE Chassis so a few more weeks on the old poverty diet and I should be back into store brand hot dogs and maybe even name brand cola.
Priorities man...priorities....it's not like I couldn't afford to lose a few lbs....right?
Priorities man...priorities....it's not like I couldn't afford to lose a few lbs....right?
Picked mine up from Alamo Precision last Thursday. Built on their action with Muller barrel 1-10 twist at 26", Hellfire break and Diamond trigger. Shoots as a custom rifle should. Great! Will be switching to a chassis though. Pretty sure the AG Composite stock is hollow, or close to it. Just want to add about five pounds.
Kendal
Kendal
Attachments
300 PRC
1:9 twist 28" Bartlein MTU contour
Defiance Deviant Long Action
Trigger Tech Diamond with straight shoe
AAC Titan brake
AI AX CIP chassis
Vortex Gen2 Razor 27x
Desert Tech 34mm rings with 30MOA slope
Elite Iron Bipod
Thought I’d try some PRC KoolAid and see how I like it; so I ordered a new magnum RPR. The brass prep for my MK13 is laborious to say the least, but I wasn’t gonna rebarrel a good shooting 300WM just yet. Hoping to significantly cut down reloading time with this new rifle. I’d love to shave some weight off that 15lb Ruger. Proof is making the barrels, but I can’t find anyone making aftermarket handguards. Was hoping someone could weigh in that has tracked down a company making them. I’m not above installing the 24” Proof and cutting down the factory handguard but will save that option till last ?
Report on the Hornady brass..
Consensus is... it's terrible. I'm using a lot of 100 that was factory ammo once fired to start. After 2 loadings, and on a third, I have already thrown out 25 pieces of brass from loose primer pockets. A few of those were from my ladder test finding pressure before I backed down. I will most likely see over half of the brass has too loose of primer pockets to use after this loading. (4 times fired). Most of the loadings were 79.0-79.25 gr of H1k. I see zero pressure with these loads with the 215 berger in this rifle. Also, Neck thickness is not consistent at all. I first noticed this when sizing and my .305 mandrill would be tight on some and just barley scoot by on the inside on others. Using a 335 Redding bushing in a Redding type S custom die. I'm disappointed once again in Hornady brass. I may be just shooting other rifles in the meantime til some other brass comes along. I could drop it down another 75 FPS to 2900 and see if that helps with brass life. But at that point I'll just spin back on the 300 win mag barrel and get 2900 fps with the 215 Berger no problem with H1k and have all the quality brass I need. Lot of time spent and having this brass give way before/at the 4th firing is pretty terrible.
I'm going to shoot these 75 rounds and then most likely stick to factory ammo for the time being or spin back on my 300 win mag barrels and use quality brass for the time being.
I know there is great potential here in the 300 PRC. But the whole brass thing seems like I'm wasting my time right now for not really much gain.
ADG, Peterson, Lapua, if your listening, I need some brass. Please!
Consensus is... it's terrible. I'm using a lot of 100 that was factory ammo once fired to start. After 2 loadings, and on a third, I have already thrown out 25 pieces of brass from loose primer pockets. A few of those were from my ladder test finding pressure before I backed down. I will most likely see over half of the brass has too loose of primer pockets to use after this loading. (4 times fired). Most of the loadings were 79.0-79.25 gr of H1k. I see zero pressure with these loads with the 215 berger in this rifle. Also, Neck thickness is not consistent at all. I first noticed this when sizing and my .305 mandrill would be tight on some and just barley scoot by on the inside on others. Using a 335 Redding bushing in a Redding type S custom die. I'm disappointed once again in Hornady brass. I may be just shooting other rifles in the meantime til some other brass comes along. I could drop it down another 75 FPS to 2900 and see if that helps with brass life. But at that point I'll just spin back on the 300 win mag barrel and get 2900 fps with the 215 Berger no problem with H1k and have all the quality brass I need. Lot of time spent and having this brass give way before/at the 4th firing is pretty terrible.
I'm going to shoot these 75 rounds and then most likely stick to factory ammo for the time being or spin back on my 300 win mag barrels and use quality brass for the time being.
I know there is great potential here in the 300 PRC. But the whole brass thing seems like I'm wasting my time right now for not really much gain.
ADG, Peterson, Lapua, if your listening, I need some brass. Please!
I figured I would have gotten more honestly.
I have 14 loadings now on ADG brass with a hot 300 win mag load. 7 on another lot for a different gun and still going strong.
I believe you're running around 79-80gr of H1000 under a 215 Jwknutson?
FWIW, max published load data is 78ish gr with the 212 ELDX, and the published load data in my experience follows pretty closely to SAAMI max pressures. I guess what I'm getting at is you can hit 65,000psi and not see any "pressure signs" on your cases, but you are at the upper end of what Hornady/Winchester/Remington etc.. brass will handle.
Lapua and some others have figured out processes that leave the head harder and more resilient to stretching primer pockets, but you're still probably running anywhere from 65,000-75,000psi before you start seeing flat primers, FP hole flow, ejector slot swipes, etc. And to pierce or blow primers you're probably north of 75-80ksi.
Anyway, it's all fair game. I would imagine most guys here that load are exceeding SAAMI pressures, or if they're wildcatting are probably in the 65,000-70,000psi range trying to get as much speed as they can. But all brass will last longer if you back down under 65ksi. Hornady cases will last 10-20+ firings (6.5 SAUM and 6.5 Creedmoor so far, have only got 3 firings on 300 PRC brass yet, but still holding up), Lapua will go 20-40 (.260, .308 that I've done) depending on sizing/annealing cycle etc... Just depends on what 75-100fps is worth to you. That's kind of why I went with a 31" barrel, let the length get the speed so I can run lazy loads and have the stuff last longer. YMMV etc...
FWIW, max published load data is 78ish gr with the 212 ELDX, and the published load data in my experience follows pretty closely to SAAMI max pressures. I guess what I'm getting at is you can hit 65,000psi and not see any "pressure signs" on your cases, but you are at the upper end of what Hornady/Winchester/Remington etc.. brass will handle.
Lapua and some others have figured out processes that leave the head harder and more resilient to stretching primer pockets, but you're still probably running anywhere from 65,000-75,000psi before you start seeing flat primers, FP hole flow, ejector slot swipes, etc. And to pierce or blow primers you're probably north of 75-80ksi.
Anyway, it's all fair game. I would imagine most guys here that load are exceeding SAAMI pressures, or if they're wildcatting are probably in the 65,000-70,000psi range trying to get as much speed as they can. But all brass will last longer if you back down under 65ksi. Hornady cases will last 10-20+ firings (6.5 SAUM and 6.5 Creedmoor so far, have only got 3 firings on 300 PRC brass yet, but still holding up), Lapua will go 20-40 (.260, .308 that I've done) depending on sizing/annealing cycle etc... Just depends on what 75-100fps is worth to you. That's kind of why I went with a 31" barrel, let the length get the speed so I can run lazy loads and have the stuff last longer. YMMV etc...
Yea I hear ya. If I'm actually only one grain over their max then I wouldn't think it's "that" hot from my experience. I'm going to give RL26 a go and see if I can get more velocity with longer brass life. I have 24lb on order if it ever comes in stock.
I've loaded stuff hot before, and this isn't there yet at 79.0 and 79.25 in this rifle I don't think. I may just rebarrel it longer if I'm going to be stuck at win mag velocities without sacrificing the brass ever 4 or so loadings. I don't have any extractor or ejector marks. No sticky bolt. And primers look perfect. Figured with all that i would be good to go.
I've talked to them maybe 4 times in the last 7 months. Like someone else mentioned it's something they are looking at for 2020. Hope that is true!!
Should have said, "Hornady if you're listening get your shit together". Great bullets, great cartridges and the worst brass in the industry. Time to raise the standards to 2019. There are far too many other companies making quality brass for an industry giant to be lagging so far behind.
Last weekend I ran my first fire formed 8x68S back through the barrel as 300 PRC. The only issue I had was that the pressure was higher (likely due to smaller volume - 75.2 gr of RL26 ran about the same as 75.6+ in Hornady cases. Otherwise, they were sweet, and they cleaned up nicely. I'm going to have to do another round of load development with these.
I also ran 8 more new rounds through to get more fire formed. I took down my Labradar before these rounds (I figured, why use it?), aimed at steel at 850, guess at the bullet drop. With 225 gr @ 2650 fps with 76.2 gr H1000, it was 15.5 MOA. These were 200gr ELDX and 68gr H1000, so I figured I'd try 18. Six o'clock low. Raised to 21 MOA... gong! Next 6 shots landed within an MOA at 850. Again, this was 8x68S, non-fire formed. I literally laughed at every hit.
Here is my process for prepping the brass:
- Size the brass in my 300 PRC die with a .339 bushing (I just ordered a .440 and .441 and will play with those next).
- At this point, all that brass from pushing down/in the shoulder is on the inside of the neck.
- Using my Lyman trimmer and power shank, I use a drill to trim the brass down to my 300 length and chamfer a bit to clean up the outside rim of the neck.
- Using my Forster trimmer and their .308 reamer, I ream out the neck (using my hand to turn, not a drill). If you don't do this, or alternately use an expander to push the neck back out and neck turn, you might have issues chambering the round - and you have to get rid of the extra brass at some point - I FAR prefer the reamer to neck turning, and it gets me very consistent neck thickness.
- I then do final chamfer and deburr and resize the neck using a .335 bushing - this gets me roughly 1 thousandth neck tension. .336 gives none. This is a similar drop when I do this to Hornady brass - initial size is .335, ream, final size is .331 for 1 thousandth NT.
- Finally, I load with 68 gr H1000, 200 gr bullet, and seat the bullet so it's touching the lands.
I'm very happy this is working out. I had to toss 10 Hornady cases during loading for this trip due to loose primer pockets. I've only got about 5 firings on them. I've never used Hornady brass to failure before, so I don't know if that's par for the course, but it's way short of what I'm used to with Norma. There was something oddly satisfying about priming the RWS cases - that extra little umph it takes to press the primer in, and no anxiety about whether it would stay.
EDIT: I might do a video of this.
Range report:
Savage 110 rebarreled by Cresent Customs 26" barlien 1:8.5 M40
Manner T-4A
Load testing: 225ELDM
H-1000 77.2 Hornady Brass
Testing primers
10 loads each with GM215M and WLRM
Fired two (3) shot groups each and the GM215 had highest velocity at 2875/Ave and best groups but both primers shot well. Got first round hits at 553yards with 9.75moa Going to do some neck turning and will update.
Savage 110 rebarreled by Cresent Customs 26" barlien 1:8.5 M40
Manner T-4A
Load testing: 225ELDM
H-1000 77.2 Hornady Brass
Testing primers
10 loads each with GM215M and WLRM
Fired two (3) shot groups each and the GM215 had highest velocity at 2875/Ave and best groups but both primers shot well. Got first round hits at 553yards with 9.75moa Going to do some neck turning and will update.
Tracking numbers show my barreled action heading to my local FFL...says Monday....but I think it may get delivered today. I may have to swing by after work and pick it up 
Any sources for headspace gauges? I'm going to swap out my steel barrel for a Proof CF that is arriving next week.
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