300 PRC update

[steve123]

Here's my opinion on it.

300N vs 300PRC, you won't be able to shoot the difference with the same bullet going 100 fps faster in the wind, but is 300N even 100 fps faster???

Sure, 300N Improved going 200 fps faster, maybe then you can shoot the difference.

It's hard to describe but the concussion 300N produces seems obnoxious compared to my 30-375R was when I shot with a guy that had one.

A comparison I'm thinking about right now is 6mmDasher compared to 6x47L. It comes down to the shooter because these two cartridges are so close in the wind and are roughly within 100 fps of each other but the Dasher is softer to shoot and uses 8-9 grains less powder.

 

[Steve390Gold]

Pardon my ignorance, but is a 1:8" twist appropriate for this cal for out to and perhaps beyond 2000yards whilst utilizing 230gr pills? Or would a slightly faster twist be beneficial for the transonic/subsonic region of flight?

 

[steve123]

I'm a little scared to try the tighter twists with the heaviest for caliber copper jacketed bullets, especially when firecracking starts.

I had a severe problem with 55 grain Berger 20 caliber blowing up in a 9 twist.
Read of problems with 22 cal 90's in 6.5 twists.
Same with the 6.5 147's and 150's in 7 twists.
etc.

225 ELDM and 230 hybrid/9 twist in 30 cal worked fine, maybe not the BC it could have had if twisted faster.

 

[nick338]

@DAVETOOLEY. If I want to run the factory 225 ELD at 3.685 it looks like it will be jumping approximately .055 to the lands based on previous data.
There was mention of a shorter reamer. Do we know what the jump will be yet with this reamer?

 

[Steve390Gold]

@DAVETOOLEY. If I want to run the factory 225 ELD at 3.685 it looks like it will be jumping approximately .055 to the lands based on previous data.
There was mention of a shorter reamer. Do we know what the jump will be yet with this reamer?

Agreed!! Im limited to 3.750" by the action and the mags....PacNor is spinning a barrel for me so im quite curious on this as well.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Agreed!! Im limited to 3.750" by the action and the mags....PacNor is spinning a barrel for me so im quite curious on this as well.

If you can run your max COAL at 3.750 that means your already using the CIP 3.850 mags. Why would you want to use a shorter reamer if you have the ability to run COAL up to 3.750?

 

[Steve390Gold]

If you can run your max COAL at 3.750 that means your already using the CIP 3.850 mags. Why would you want to use a shorter reamer if you have the ability to run COAL up to 3.750?

I want to be able to actually reach the lands. And as the barrel wears and I have to chase the lands, I want to be able to retain use of my mags throughout the life of the barrel without having the barrel setback unnecessarily.

 

[MOUNTIC]

I want to be able to actually reach the lands. And as the barrel wears and I have to chase the lands, I want to be able to retain use of my mags throughout the life of the barrel without having the barrel setback unnecessarily.

I get all of that. The reamer they were talking about earlier was for folks wanting to run the mags at 3.615 COAL and 3.675 COAL mags, where they were limited from existing rifles not able to run CIP length mags.

Just curious how much wear you anticipate? I have 2 if these 300 PRC builds underway currently and I haven't thought much about it. I was just going to have another barrel on standby by the 1000-1200rd mark. Hopefully longer, but ill have to wait and see.

 

[nick338]

If you can run your max COAL at 3.750 that means your already using the CIP 3.850 mags. Why would you want to use a shorter reamer if you have the ability to run COAL up to 3.750?

I plan on using the factory loaded 225 eld unless they don't shoot worth a shit then I will load. Either way at 3.685 I'm using CIP mags so if I'm off .055 then I want to know where the shorter reamer puts me.

 

[nick338]

To make things even more confusing it appears all SAAMI spec reamers are not the same. Hill Country Rifles had an issue with the factory ammo jammed into the lands loaded at 3.685" and pulled several bullets from the cases and yet another one here measured .010 off the lands at a loaded length of 3.730".

 

[Ledzep]

I would think SAAMI spec reamers are all the same. Perhaps someone made one that isn't to spec? Common enough issue, especially with new calibers.

 

[Waknstak]

Tagging in..... I read the first few pages and can't help but ask how this cartridge matches up. With the 300 wby? Sorry if it's a dumb question I'm looking for something in the ballpark.....

 

[steve123]

Tagging in..... I read the first few pages and can't help but ask how this cartridge matches up. With the 300 wby? Sorry if it's a dumb question I'm looking for something in the ballpark.....

Because at mag length, the long bullets intrude too much in the powder column in the 300WBY so only so much powder can be stuffed into it. If you were to have the 300WBY's barrel throated for single shot and seated the bullet way out then 300WBY might be a little faster than 300PRC but it's not going to be by much considering 300N has a lot more powder capacity yet doesn't produce a significant velocity increase.

Most reloaders would rather have the bottom of the bearing surface of the bullet out of the neck shoulder junction and not have to deal with a belt, those are where 300PRC shines.

If you have a 300WBY, and use it for hunting, don't plan on reloading, then there isn't enough of a reason to change over. A good friend has a nice old 300WBY with a brake on it that is more accurate than it should be. It's fine for it's purpose and gets the job done come hunting season, as well as doing some long range steel just before hunting season starts.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Pardon my ignorance, but is a 1:8" twist appropriate for this cal for out to and perhaps beyond 2000yards whilst utilizing 230gr pills? Or would a slightly faster twist be beneficial for the transonic/subsonic region of flight?

I've been gone on a duck hunt and just got back. I try and stay unplugged on trips like that.
I wouldn't go any faster than a 9.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

@DAVETOOLEY. If I want to run the factory 225 ELD at 3.685 it looks like it will be jumping approximately .055 to the lands based on previous data.
There was mention of a shorter reamer. Do we know what the jump will be yet with this reamer?

When the reamer arrives I will need to cut a test chamber and load a dummy round and see where things fall. I try to err on the conservative side but you never know. I can get close just from experience but close isn't good enough in some cases. Fitting mags is one of those situations.

 

[nick338]

When the reamer arrives I will need to cut a test chamber and load a dummy round and see where things fall. I try to err on the conservative side but you never know. I can get close just from experience but close isn't good enough in some cases. Fitting mags is one of those situations.

Thank you for the update.

 

[ubettcha]

Dave you keep saying you wouldn't go faster than a 9tw yet the sammi print says 8.5? If you go tighter you can shoot the 230 sierria with it's .8 G1. Even on Hornady's sight they claim a .8 something with the 225 with a faster twist 7.5 I believe. What's the big deal of twisting it more vs less? I'm looking at this and I'd want to have the big monos as an option I have 3 boxes of 197 GS from awhile ago and a 9 won't do it at all for me. I'm at 15 above sealevel where I shoot most often. Plus I only shoot alot in the winter time. So I'm always at a negative DA #
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/300-PRC-Public-Introduction.pdf

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Dave you keep saying you wouldn't go faster than a 9tw yet the sammi print says 8.5? If you go tighter you can shoot the 230 sierria with it's .8 G1. Even on Hornady's sight they claim a .8 something with the 225 with a faster twist 7.5 I believe. What's the big deal of twisting it more vs less? I'm looking at this and I'd want to have the big monos as an option I have 3 boxes of 197 GS from awhile ago and a 9 won't do it at all for me. I'm at 15 above sealevel where I shoot most often. Plus I only shoot alot in the winter time. So I'm always at a negative DA #
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/300-PRC-Public-Introduction.pdf

Over the years, in one way or another, I have participated in blowing up a lot of bullets. The causes; velocity, bore condition, bullet length, jacket thickness and RPM's. Out of all of those the only one you have control over is RPM's. I don't agree with the very recent move to faster and faster twist rates and extremely heavy bullets. Yes there is data that says a slight increase in BC can be gained with faster twists but that gain is marginal and brings other negative factors into play. With Doppler radar we can measure things we can't replicate on the target.

It's been proven over the years that a bullet with thinner jackets is more accurate. Why is educated speculation but the proof is on the target. An example. I have a customer, an anal hard headed guy who shoots 1K BR matches. He has worked for 20 years trying to get a 338 to shoot as good as a 30. He got close once. He wanted higher BC's to beat the wind. When Berger came out with their 338-300 1st Gen they shot great. Good enough to compete with the 30's. Then guys pushed the velocity up to 3000+ and started blowing up bullets. The phone started ringing at Berger. Gen2 has a thicker jacket and never shot as well.

Berger's website lists a 1-10 for the 30-230's. For the hvy 7's a 1-9 I concur. There are some niche bullets out that require a, for me, nonstandard twist rates. Yes Hornady says 8.5 but ask the guys who have shot that round for 11 years what twist rate they started with and what they shoot now. I chambered their barrels for most of that time. For PSRI AI submitted the 300 AI/300 PRC shooting 225 HPBT in 10 twist barrels. I shot those to 2000 yds with no problem. I have had great success shooting a bullet with a gyroscopic stability factor of 1.1. Sierra and any other manufacturer will err on the conservative side. I for one don't feel it's necessary to chase BC. I want enough BC to get the job done and enough velocity to get the job done and then first and foremost I want accuracy.

God knows I've worked/experimented in the extremes for a large part of my career but I always go back to the easy, the simple. What works, what you can depend on.

As always YMMV

 

[CMP70306]

Over the years, in one way or another, I have participated in blowing up a lot of bullets. The causes; velocity, bore condition, bullet length, jacket thickness and RPM's. Out of all of those the only one you have control over is RPM's. I don't agree with the very recent move to faster and faster twist rates and extremely heavy bullets. Yes there is data that says a slight increase in BC can be gained with faster twists but that gain is marginal and brings other negative factors into play. With Doppler radar we can measure things we can't replicate on the target.

It's been proven over the years that a bullet with thinner jackets is more accurate. Why is educated speculation but the proof is on the target. An example. I have a customer, an anal hard headed guy who shoots 1K BR matches. He has worked for 20 years trying to get a 338 to shoot as good as a 30. He got close once. He wanted higher BC's to beat the wind. When Berger came out with their 338-300 1st Gen they shot great. Good enough to compete with the 30's. Then guys pushed the velocity up to 3000+ and started blowing up bullets. The phone started ringing at Berger. Gen2 has a thicker jacket and never shot as well.

Berger's website lists a 1-10 for the 30-230's. For the hvy 7's a 1-9 I concur. There are some niche bullets out that require a, for me, nonstandard twist rates. Yes Hornady says 8.5 but ask the guys who have shot that round for 11 years what twist rate they started with and what they shoot now. I chambered their barrels for most of that time. For PSRI AI submitted the 300 AI/300 PRC shooting 225 HPBT in 10 twist barrels. I shot those to 2000 yds with no problem. I have had great success shooting a bullet with a gyroscopic stability factor of 1.1. Sierra and any other manufacturer will err on the conservative side. I for one don't feel it's necessary to chase BC. I want enough BC to get the job done and enough velocity to get the job done and then first and foremost I want accuracy.

God knows I've worked/experimented in the extremes for a large part of my career but I always go back to the easy, the simple. What works, what you can depend on.

As always YMMV

So then would there be a concern about blowing up bullets using an 8 twist 300 WM? I just bought a barrel with those specs with the intention of using the 225gr ELD-M and other heavy mono metal bullets, obviously it’s not a concern with the mono’s but would there be an issue shooting the ELD-Ms?

The rifle is mainly for target shooting but would be used for hunting under certain conditions which is part of the reason for the faster twist. There was a discussion a few months back on another forum about the effects the twist rates has on the terminal performance of the bullet on game and the general consensus was that faster twists provide better terminal performance.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

You have to twist the barrel for the extremes and the rest just follows. I doubt you'll have any problems. Velocities won't be that high and I haven't heard of any 225's coming apart yet. The key is managing heat checking and carbon in the barrel. They both play havoc on bullets.

 

[ubettcha]

Over the years, in one way or another, I have participated in blowing up a lot of bullets. The causes; velocity, bore condition, bullet length, jacket thickness and RPM's. Out of all of those the only one you have control over is RPM's. I don't agree with the very recent move to faster and faster twist rates and extremely heavy bullets. Yes there is data that says a slight increase in BC can be gained with faster twists but that gain is marginal and brings other negative factors into play. With Doppler radar we can measure things we can't replicate on the target.

It's been proven over the years that a bullet with thinner jackets is more accurate. Why is educated speculation but the proof is on the target. An example. I have a customer, an anal hard headed guy who shoots 1K BR matches. He has worked for 20 years trying to get a 338 to shoot as good as a 30. He got close once. He wanted higher BC's to beat the wind. When Berger came out with their 338-300 1st Gen they shot great. Good enough to compete with the 30's. Then guys pushed the velocity up to 3000+ and started blowing up bullets. The phone started ringing at Berger. Gen2 has a thicker jacket and never shot as well.

Berger's website lists a 1-10 for the 30-230's. For the hvy 7's a 1-9 I concur. There are some niche bullets out that require a, for me, nonstandard twist rates. Yes Hornady says 8.5 but ask the guys who have shot that round for 11 years what twist rate they started with and what they shoot now. I chambered their barrels for most of that time. For PSRI AI submitted the 300 AI/300 PRC shooting 225 HPBT in 10 twist barrels. I shot those to 2000 yds with no problem. I have had great success shooting a bullet with a gyroscopic stability factor of 1.1. Sierra and any other manufacturer will err on the conservative side. I for one don't feel it's necessary to chase BC. I want enough BC to get the job done and enough velocity to get the job done and then first and foremost I want accuracy.

God knows I've worked/experimented in the extremes for a large part of my career but I always go back to the easy, the simple. What works, what you can depend on.

As always YMMV

Thx for the response

 

[Bradu]

You have to twist the barrel for the extremes and the rest just follows. I doubt you'll have any problems. Velocities won't be that high and I haven't heard of any 225's coming apart yet. The key is managing heat checking and carbon in the barrel. They both play havoc on bullets.

I have a friend with a 300 norma that hasn't cleaned his barrel in close to 500 rounds. He has pretty bad pressure issues shooting factory ammo, enough that the brass is swollen above the case head and cracked my reloading die. The ejector marks are pretty bad too but he doesn't want to clean it because he says it's shooting too good to mess with.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I have a friend with a 300 norma that hasn't cleaned his barrel in close to 500 rounds. He has pretty bad pressure issues shooting factory ammo, enough that the brass is swollen above the case head and cracked my reloading die. The ejector marks are pretty bad too but he doesn't want to clean it because he says it's shooting too good to mess with.

A clean barrel doesn't hurt accuracy. Particularly with the big boomers. I never understood the mindset that punishing my equipment and wrecking brass is good.

 

[Bradu]

A clean barrel doesn't hurt accuracy. Particularly with the big boomers. I never understood the mindset that punishing my equipment and wrecking brass is good.

I tried to explain that but he still hasn't cleaned it.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I tried to explain that but he still hasn't cleaned it.

He's a gunsmiths favorite customer. It's going to quickly die in a pile and can't be brought back to life.

 

[Steve390Gold]

Over the years, in one way or another, I have participated in blowing up a lot of bullets. The causes; velocity, bore condition, bullet length, jacket thickness and RPM's. Out of all of those the only one you have control over is RPM's. I don't agree with the very recent move to faster and faster twist rates and extremely heavy bullets. Yes there is data that says a slight increase in BC can be gained with faster twists but that gain is marginal and brings other negative factors into play. With Doppler radar we can measure things we can't replicate on the target.

It's been proven over the years that a bullet with thinner jackets is more accurate. Why is educated speculation but the proof is on the target. An example. I have a customer, an anal hard headed guy who shoots 1K BR matches. He has worked for 20 years trying to get a 338 to shoot as good as a 30. He got close once. He wanted higher BC's to beat the wind. When Berger came out with their 338-300 1st Gen they shot great. Good enough to compete with the 30's. Then guys pushed the velocity up to 3000+ and started blowing up bullets. The phone started ringing at Berger. Gen2 has a thicker jacket and never shot as well.

Berger's website lists a 1-10 for the 30-230's. For the hvy 7's a 1-9 I concur. There are some niche bullets out that require a, for me, nonstandard twist rates. Yes Hornady says 8.5 but ask the guys who have shot that round for 11 years what twist rate they started with and what they shoot now. I chambered their barrels for most of that time. For PSRI AI submitted the 300 AI/300 PRC shooting 225 HPBT in 10 twist barrels. I shot those to 2000 yds with no problem. I have had great success shooting a bullet with a gyroscopic stability factor of 1.1. Sierra and any other manufacturer will err on the conservative side. I for one don't feel it's necessary to chase BC. I want enough BC to get the job done and enough velocity to get the job done and then first and foremost I want accuracy.

God knows I've worked/experimented in the extremes for a large part of my career but I always go back to the easy, the simple. What works, what you can depend on.

As always YMMV

Ok I will call PacNor and have them do a 1:9 instead of the 1:8.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge, it is greatly appreciated.

Ps - did you ever goof aroubd with 125-150 grain 30 cals in the 30-375's just to see?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Ok I will call PacNor and have them do a 1:9 instead of the 1:8.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and knowledge, it is greatly appreciated.

Ps - did you ever goof aroubd with 125-150 grain 30 cals in the 30-375's just to see?

No I haven't. I shoot a 6-284 with 85 Gr. SPBT going about 3500fps for everything from Red Stag down.

 

[Steve390Gold]

Sorry double post

 

[PTPATAW]

Is there a mag length issue with the 230 hybrid Berger?

What’s the fastest suggested twist and the slowest suggested twist for the 230?

 

[Ledzep]

Not with CIP magazines.

1:7 or 1:8 on the fast end (I think these are excessive, but people are doing it in Normas and win mags), 1:10 will probably work on the slow end unless you're on the Alaska coastline in the winter in a high pressure zone.

Under normal circumstances, 1:10 will handle everything that's on the market. 1:9 if you're scared.

I agree with Dave that anything over 1.2 on Berger's stability calculator is good. Set it up for the coldest lowest elevation day you'll see and if you're still ~1.2 or better you're never going to have an issue.

 

[PTPATAW]

Not with CIP magazines.

1:7 or 1:8 on the fast end (I think these are excessive, but people are doing it in Normas and win mags), 1:10 will probably work on the slow end unless you're on the Alaska coastline in the winter in a high pressure zone.

Under normal circumstances, 1:10 will handle everything that's on the market. 1:9 if you're scared.

I agree with Dave that anything over 1.2 on Berger's stability calculator is good. Set it up for the coldest lowest elevation day you'll see and if you're still ~1.2 or better you're never going to have an issue.

Thanks! I have a lot of reading to do on here. I’m sure my question would have been answered earlier but I’d have to sift through the post. I plan to run CIP mags so that’s good news.

 

[Magoo124]

Is there any reloading data available anywhere for the 300 PRC or does one start with load data for 300 win mag since they are similar?

 

[MOUNTIC]

I pulled a bullet on the Factory 225 eld and it had 75.2 gr of what looks like to be H1000. That's what I am starting at and working up with the 225.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I pulled a bullet on the Factory 225 eld and it had 75.2 gr of what looks like to be H1000. That's what I am starting at and working up with the 225.

I'd say you're correct.

 

[FiremanSamiam]

At what length barrel does factory 300 PRC burn all of its powder?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Depends on which power. I use 4831 in my hunting rifle because I'm not trying to get all the velocity possible. For the sake of argument that's probably good in 24-26" barrels. My rifle has a 25" barrel. Slower powders need more barrel length to get maximum velocity but everything is a compromise. I wouldn't go longer than 27" for most applications but if all I was going to do is shoot ELR and velocity was important to me I would go 28-30" .
Complete powder burn probably never happens.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Depends on which power. I use 4831 in my hunting rifle because I'm not trying to get all the velocity possible. For the sake of argument that's probably good in 24-26" barrels. My rifle has a 25" barrel. Slower powders need more barrel length to get maximum velocity but everything is a compromise. I wouldn't go longer than 27" for most applications but if all I was going to do is shoot ELR and velocity was important to me I would go 28-30" .
Complete powder burn probably never happens.

Would you mind letting me know what load you are using with the H4831 (assuming your using H and not IMR). I have about 15lbs of H4831 sitting here I need to use for something.

Thanks!

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Would you mind letting me know what load you are using with the H4831 (assuming your using H and not IMR). I have about 15lbs of H4831 sitting here I need to use for something.

Thanks!

72 Grs. 4831SC w/212's @2825
mild load but the 212's work.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Midway has brass

 

[C3P003]

Just got my hands on some Hornady factory 300 PRC brass and ran them through my Hornady E420 headspace comparator gauge. Getting readings between 2.193 and 2.194 inches.
Does anybody have headspace data for 300 PRC loaded ammo using the same comparator?

 

[Ledzep]

The way those work doesn't lend two people with separate units getting the same measurements necessarily. If you mailed your comparator to someone else to use on their ammo it'd be more applicable.

TINY changes in the depth of the chamfer cut on the hole, and whatever diameter variance there is on the hole leads to variance in the measured length.

 

[jasent]

The way those work doesn't lend two people with separate units getting the same measurements necessarily. If you mailed your comparator to someone else to use on their ammo it'd be more applicable.

TINY changes in the depth of the chamfer cut on the hole, and whatever diameter variance there is on the hole leads to variance in the measured length.

I’ll second this. I have multiple of some sizes and they will all measure the same case different

 

[C3P003]

Does anybody have headspace gauge data for both factory 300 PRC brass and factory loaded 300 PRC ammo?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/300-PRC-Public-Introduction.pdf

 

[PTPATAW]

Redding going to be making some dies any time soon? I can’t find anything on google about it.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Redding going to be making some dies any time soon? I can’t find anything on google about it.

I'm sure they will. When? I'll ask them at Shot.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Redding going to be making some dies any time soon? I can’t find anything on google about it.

I was told by the Redding folks when I called that the first of February they will have them available. So hoping that is true.

 

[m6z]

Any factory rifles announced yet other that the Barrett?

 

[C3P003]

Any factory rifles announced yet other that the Barrett?

I've been in contact with Seekins Precision. They are currently testing their Havak chambered in 300 PRC and told me it should be announced during Shot Show 2019 or shortly after.
https://www.seekinsprecision.com/product/havak/havak-bolt-action-rifle-3.html

 

[dfp dfp]

Bergara has 300 PRC in stock, so the website states