300 Win Mag -VS- 300 PRC

[Vamike9]

300 Win Magnum vs 300 PRC
I know how I feel, but my question is for you guys.
Is the 300 PRC worth changing out your barrel, dies, bullets and ammo?...

Since the purpose of the 300 PRC is mainly geared towards long range.
How much extra performance can you expect to get at 1500 yds?
We all know about the 300 Win Mag's belted cases, but what about the bullet weights and ballistic coefficient?
What do you all think?

 

[Supersubes]

300 Win Magnum vs 300 PRC
I know how I feel, but my question is for you guys.
Is the 300 PRC worth changing out your barrel, dies, bullets and ammo?...

Since the purpose of the 300 PRC is mainly geared towards long range.
How much extra performance can you expect to get at 1500 yds?
We all know about the 300 Win Mag's belted cases, but what about the bullet weights and ballistic coefficient?
What do you all think?

It depends on what 300 wm you’re comparing the PRC to. If it’s a winmag that’s been throated for heavies, the two cartridges are virtually identical. If you have a standard winmag chamber, and that puts 225/230 class bullets way down Into the case, the PRC will likely outperform it. The PRC is merely a blown out AND shortened winmag. The resulting capacity is the same, but in a shorter overall length.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Not worth changing out, but if I were starting from scratch, it would be a PRC for the no-belt option. Otherwise, same same to me.

 

[Bandit320]

My 300 WM is throated for the heavies and doesn’t give up much, if any, to the PRC. If your happy with your accuracy and performance I definitely would not switch.

Mike

 

[Vamike9]

My 300 WM is throated for the heavies and doesn’t give up much, if any, to the PRC. If your happy with your accuracy and performance I definitely would not switch.

Mike

My 300 Win Mag is a Rem 5R Gen2 that's been a tack driver so far...
1 in 10 twist rate
I plan to load some 208 ELDs soon...
What is the average performance with something like that at 1500yds +?
I assume it be better to cut the throat back for 225s vs changing the bbl?

 

[Punkur67]

My friend has a 300 PRC and I have a 300wm. Our dope is very close all the way out to 1500.

 

[TRPrecision]

My 300 Win Mag is a Rem 5R Gen2 that's been a tack driver so far...
1 in 10 twist rate
I plan to load some 208 ELDs soon...
What is the average performance with something like that at 1500yds +?
I assume it be better to cut the throat back for 225s vs changing the bbl?

My last 300wm had no trouble getting 208eld's to the mile mark using h1000 or 7828ssc. H1000 load was a bit faster, 7828 was a touch more accurate. This was in a Armalite AR-30 with a 26" Kreiger 1/10 twist barrel. Chamber was cut to load long, the 208's actually had a pretty big jump.

 

[TRPrecision]

You could certainly re-throat the barrel for heavies. I would not rechamber to a new caliber until the barrel burns out. At that point, if you are invested in lots of good 300wm brass, dies etc, it may still not be worth changing calibers. Nothing wrong with the 300wm if you work your brass properly...

 

[Bandit320]

My 300 Win Mag is a Rem 5R Gen2 that's been a tack driver so far...
1 in 10 twist rate
I plan to load some 208 ELDs soon...
What is the average performance with something like that at 1500yds +?
I assume it be better to cut the throat back for 225s vs changing the bbl?

Since your barrel is shooting well I would find a good smith and get them to cut the throat for you. I don’t have any experience with the 208s. I load the 225 ELDMs to about 3.69” in my 1-10” barrel. At a mile in light winds it only took me 2 shots to get on target. Muzzle velocity was 2860. I’m very happy with it.

 

[CRT2]

Shooting Custom Reloads of Dallas, 300 Win Mag 230 gr Berger Target Hybrids out of an AXMC with Bartlein 26“, 1/9 twist, 70 degrees temperature, my velocity for 15 rounds, obtained using LabRadar, was 2944.

 

[Poorboyr]

Shooting Custom Reloads of Dallas, 300 Win Mag 230 gr Berger Target Hybrids out of an AXMC with Bartlein 26“, 1/9 twist, 70 degrees temperature, my velocity for 15 rounds, obtained using LabRadar, was 2944.

That’s a smoking load! Mine shoots 215 Berger’s and 210 SMKs lights out in the 2875 range.

 

[Punkur67]

I am shooting Berger 215 hybrids at 2970 with 77.1 grains of H1000.

 

[Vamike9]

Since your barrel is shooting well I would find a good smith and get them to cut the throat for you. I don’t have any experience with the 208s. I load the 225 ELDMs to about 3.69” in my 1-10” barrel. At a mile in light winds it only took me 2 shots to get on target. Muzzle velocity was 2860. I’m very happy with it.

So what if I find a load that allows me to shoot the 208s accurately without cutting the throat back?
Would there still be a reason to get that done?
To my way of thinking, I wouldn't think so...
But I'm learning everyday.

 

[Bandit320]

I wouldn’t think so if you have a load you like, sorry if I implied that. The 208s have a lower BC, but you’ll probably fine a faster node than what I’m shooting. My brother shoots the 208s with his 300 H&H at around 2850 and it rocks at 1345 yds (the longest we’ve tried it).

 

[SmartDonkey]

Switching to PRC right now might be a little difficult- I don't know where you could find brass or ammo. 300 win mag supply is also way down but some of the expensive stuff is still available. At a gun store last week they had their 300 prc rifle priced a couple hundred cheaper than all the other chamberings in the same rifle. They said they couldn't move any of them because they couldn't provide any ammo and no one already has a supply of it-- so they had to make it a good enough deal that people would buy them and wait it out.

My Rem 700 win mag had a very long throat in it-- I'd sure measure before I went to change it- you could be good already.

 

[TRPrecision]

My 208 load was 77.1 h1000 in nosler brass at 2980fps. It got the job done. I am sure I could do better with the heavies, but the 208’s just shot sooooo well.

 

[TankFrank]

I've thought about this for a long time now and I keep coming back to the win mag. Mainly because I have everything to load for it already. I feel like they are pretty identical at that distance. I shoot a 220 Scenar-L out of a 28 inch 1 in 9 twist mcgowen with RL26 at 3050ish. It's moving quick. A good friend of mine shoots the PRC at 3000ish fps. Im sure he can get it alot faster. Both our guns shoot sub 1/2 minute and both have had impacts out to 2300 yards at Arena in blakely, GA. Maybe I'll make the switch when I wear out all my win mag norma brass(that won't be for a while). Hopefully by then it won't be hard to find top quality brass for the PRC.

 

[Vamike9]

My 208 load was 77.1 h1000 in nosler brass at 2980fps. It got the job done. I am sure I could do better with the heavies, but the 208’s just shot sooooo well.

What about the COAL of the longer/heavier bullets, can you still use a Magpul Pmag with 220gr?

Also, is a 1in10 twist rate sufficient to stabilize the 208gr+ bullets at distances beyond 1200yds?...

 

[TRPrecision]

I

What about the COAL of the longer/heavier bullets, can you still use a Magpul Pmag with 220gr?

Also, is a 1in10 twist rate sufficient to stabilize the 208gr+ bullets at distances beyond 1200yds?...

I am out at a PRs match at the moment so I can’t look up my coal. As far as mag length, my ar30 uses a proprietary mag that is the same for 338lm. I’ve never had a load not fit in those mags. I don’t recall off hand the distance the round went transonic, but it was not much past the mile mark with atmospheric conditions in Blakey ga.
This rifle currently has a bartlien 338lm barrel and bolt head, but the performance has been a bit disappointing. I am planning to go back to 300wm and will be using a 1/9 barrel this time.

 

[Punkur67]

What about the COAL of the longer/heavier bullets, can you still use a Magpul Pmag with 220gr?

Also, is a 1in10 twist rate sufficient to stabilize the 208gr+ bullets at distances beyond 1200yds?...

I need to jump the Berger 215s .070 to fit in the standard AICS 300wm mags. I also shoot the out of a 1/10 barrel. Berger recommends a 1/10 minimum on the 215s

 

[308pirate]

What does a 300 PRC do better than a 300 WSM, 300 RSM, and 300 RSAUM?

 

[Vamike9]

I'll paraphrase a little...
Like @Dippy said

Longer neck
30 degree shoulder
Non belted brass case
Sammi spec
Faster muzzle velocity with less pressure

However, as has been said, I'm not sure it would merit changing your 300WM or similar cartridge?...

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Don’t get me wrong I want a 300 wsm or Suam! For a short action mag build because I like those rounds.

Also I wouldn’t change over to PRC if I was a win mag man. I built some because I was interested in the new cartridge. Also I wanted a reason to build something new.

So what’s the big difference between the wsm and the saum

 

[Sniperwannabee]

While I don’t own one or the other, from the limited research I’ve done it seems like a toss up. Wsm is pretty easy to find for Hunting emergencies. When I build one it’ll probably be a wsm with a sammi chamber for hunting.

ive been thinking the same, but 300wsm or 7 Saum, Im leading toward 300 wsm

 

[MK3XXX]

What about barrel life of each? Does the less pressure at same speed from the 300prc mean longer barrel life?

 

[Vamike9]

So what's the best COAL for 208gr eld bullets for both performance & magazine reliability?...
Just wondering if anyone has experience with them in PMAGs?

 

[Vamike9]

So I'm getting ready to load some 208gr eld bullets...
Any suggestions about the expected accuracy or downrange performance in a 1in10 twist rate bbl?...

 

[Frank Green]

I'd vote PRC. Why?

I see some of you guys posting loads on the WM. I'm going to tell you this....yes you can get the velocity for the WM to match the PRC but not at normal working pressures!!!!!!!

Some of the loads listed I know for fact out of ammunition pressure test barrels....the loads and velocities listed at like 2950fps....your knocking on 80k PSI with a 215, 220 bullets!

At 76gr of powder with the powder listed above your at 72 to 75k psi.

The PRC can do it with out being over pressure.

Just because you don't have a hard bolt lift or ejector marks doesn't mean your not over pressure.

Be safe!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[SmartDonkey]

Frank Green....

Most everyone in this thread was talking about 300 win mags that did not have a sammi throat.... and that could handle the heavy bullets loaded long. I freely admit that I don't have the means to test psi (and I'm sure that you guys do), but loading each cartridge to the same pressure signs did not show the PRC with any advantage. So why with the capacity of the 300 win mag when chambered long would it be that over pressure? On a sammi chamber I would expect it to be hot--- Just curious.....

 

[Bandit320]

I was curious abou that also. I seat the 225 ELDMs to about 3.680” in mine.

 

[Totoro]

I toiled over 300WM vs. 300PRC for a real long time. At the time, I wasn't set up to load either so took a chance with the 300PRC as I was able to obtain the factory ELDX and ELDM loads at BPS.

285 rounds later my RBros 300PRC eats 230gr Berger Hybrids and all I can say is WOW!

Taking nothing away from the Winnie, but my PRC will be with me a while.

 

[Just Macca]

Lapua brass available for both soon in early-mid 2021, so that’s a wash.

Therefore if starting from scratch, I’d go for the one with no belt, a generally accepted better shoulder angle which is conducive to accuracy and reduces brass growth, identical capacity and finally a slightly longer neck.

300PRC is better in every metric in terms of its design.

 

[Dogsniper]

I’ll stick with my win mag . 208 eld at 3k fps
Probably like 6.5 creed vs 260 rem.
Most of us couldn’t shoot the difference

 

[Vamike9]

I’ll stick with my win mag . 208 eld at 3k fps
Probably like 6.5 creed vs 260 rem.
Most of us couldn’t shoot the difference

From what I've seen, yes the 300 PRC is slightly better in one ore two main areas, however, not so much to change out everything you have.
There's a reason the 300WM is so highly regarded both now and in the days of old, it just works, despite all of the issues people complain about that rarely if ever cause real problems...
Although, bbl life would be my top concern, if 300 PRC could get me the MV I want with less wear on the throat, then that's a good thing.
Hornady knows much more than I so we shall see, I guess?

 

[Frank Green]

Frank Green....

Most everyone in this thread was talking about 300 win mags that did not have a sammi throat.... and that could handle the heavy bullets loaded long. I freely admit that I don't have the means to test psi (and I'm sure that you guys do), but loading each cartridge to the same pressure signs did not show the PRC with any advantage. So why with the capacity of the 300 win mag when chambered long would it be that over pressure? On a sammi chamber I would expect it to be hot--- Just curious.....

That's the problem or should I say can be the problem. Some guys unless you have a copy of the reamer print used and you know exactly what you have they are guessing. That's why I said be SAFE!

One guy recently on another forum swore up and down he had a longer throat and had a copy of the print that the gunsmith used for a reamer. I told him to post it and he did...guess what....he had a Saami chamber and he is running his loads at like 78gr of powder with a 215.

I'm not trying to argue per say at all. Just want everyone to be safe. I've seen too many blown up guns because of something minor that happened with loading, shooting, cleaning etc....

Later, Frank

 

[ck1a]

What about barrel life of each? Does the less pressure at same speed from the 300prc mean longer barrel life?

I read an article that said 300 PRC is 1/8 twist and the rate of twist will wear the barrel a little faster.

 

[Supersubes]

I read an article that said 300 PRC is 1/8 twist and the rate of twist will wear the barrel a little faster.

Don’t believe everything you read.

 

[Ledzep]

Accuracy is very good in the PRC for 1200-1500 rounds. Acceptable for general use (.75-1.5 MOA) to 2k+. Pretty similar to the win mag.

The benefits are no belt, SAAMI chamber and twist rate. If you throat and long-load the WM they're very similar.

 

[ck1a]

Don’t believe everything you read.

That is so true.

 

[Frank Green]

I read an article that said 300 PRC is 1/8 twist and the rate of twist will wear the barrel a little faster.

Saami spec is 1-8.5 twist. Not 1-8.

You can get aftermarket barrels in any twist you want.

My F open gun is a 1-9 twist and I shoot up to the 230gr bullets.

Twist for the most part has nothing to do with barrel wear. Actual chamber spec's/caliber, type of bullets you are shooting, type of powder being burned, rate of fire, conditions being shot in and how well/cleaning you are taking care of it are the variables.

8 twist vs 10 twist etc....in the grand scope of things....doesn't mean a hill of beans.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[rustyinbend]

300 Win Magnum vs 300 PRC
I know how I feel, but my question is for you guys.
Is the 300 PRC worth changing out your barrel, dies, bullets and ammo?...

Since the purpose of the 300 PRC is mainly geared towards long range.
How much extra performance can you expect to get at 1500 yds?
We all know about the 300 Win Mag's belted cases, but what about the bullet weights and ballistic coefficient?
What do you all think?

Not sure, but I'm gonna find out. Been shooting a MPA-300WMBA to a mile with good results, factory Hornady 195 ELDM's. Recently started handloading for it. Just got a 300-PRC barrel for my Barrett MRAD and shooting factory ammo to zero, break-in, and generate brass to handload. Got Berger 220's for the 300-PRC and in the early stages of using QuickLoad to generate the first ladder test. I'll let you guys know if the PRC is same, better, or worse than my very accurate 300-WM. The journey is just beginning.

 

[Frank Green]

Not sure, but I'm gonna find out. Been shooting a MPA-300WMBA to a mile with good results, factory Hornady 195 ELDM's. Recently started handloading for it. Just got a 300-PRC barrel for my Barrett MRAD and shooting factory ammo to zero, break-in, and generate brass to handload. Got Berger 220's for the 300-PRC and in the early stages of using QuickLoad to generate the first ladder test. I'll let you guys know if the PRC is same, better, or worse than my very accurate 300-WM. The journey is just beginning.

Not poking at ya so don't take it that way.

Your not comparing apples to apples. How good is the barrel and gunsmithing on one vs the other?

I've shot plenty of 300wm rifles when it came to accuracy there was nothing to complain about. Same with the 300PRC.

I like the PRC more just because of what it can do vs the WM. That doesn't mean the WM is a bad round.

Later, Frank

 

[rustyinbend]

Not poking at ya so don't take it that way.

Your not comparing apples to apples. How good is the barrel and gunsmithing on one vs the other?

I've shot plenty of 300wm rifles when it came to accuracy there was nothing to complain about. Same with the 300PRC.

I like the PRC more just because of what it can do vs the WM. That doesn't mean the WM is a bad round.

Later, Frank

Just curious. What does "... what it can do vs. the WM ..." mean? What can it do that the WM "can't"?

 

[moosemeat]

He covered that.

 

[ck1a]

Saami spec is 1-8.5 twist. Not 1-8.

You can get aftermarket barrels in any twist you want.

My F open gun is a 1-9 twist and I shoot up to the 230gr bullets.

Twist for the most part has nothing to do with barrel wear. Actual chamber spec's/caliber, type of bullets you are shooting, type of powder being burned, rate of fire, conditions being shot in and how well/cleaning you are taking care of it are the variables.

8 twist vs 10 twist etc....in the grand scope of things....doesn't mean a hill of beans.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Thank you for that info.

 

[ck1a]

Thanks for the input guys. I ended up getting a Bergara HMR Pro in 300 PRC.

 

[captainemil]

Good Luck with the Bergara, Fine rifle , We made a choice a few years ago about this topic, we decided to stay with the 300 win mag. The biggest reason is BRASS, No matter where you go there is 300 win mag ammo of some kind. It will always be around somewhere. At the the time we did not know if the PRC was going to make it. There are 3 of us that hunt together and all have the win mag, we use the same brass primer bullet and powder , so I think were good to go for our life time.

 

[ck1a]

Good Luck with the Bergara, Fine rifle , We made a choice a few years ago about this topic, we decided to stay with the 300 win mag. The biggest reason is BRASS, No matter where you go there is 300 win mag ammo of some kind. It will always be around somewhere. At the the time we did not know if the PRC was going to make it. There are 3 of us that hunt together and all have the win mag, we use the same brass primer bullet and powder , so I think were good to go for our life time.

Thanks for the reply! May be a stupid small reason, but as I handload, and an engineer, the belted case on the 300 WM was the smallest of reasons I went 300 PRC. The bulge that can, but mostly not, happen just above the belt. I've got other rifles if SHTF, and always keep a fair amount of ammo, so availability isn't an issue on this topic for me. If the budget allows in a year or so, I do plan on adding a nice 300 WM though.

 

[NamibHunter]

Probably old news: Atlas Development Group / ADG has recently started making premium 300 PRC brass:

300 PRC - Atlasdg.com

ADG Brass - Handloading Rifle Brass - Cartridge Brass - 300 PRC

atlasdg.com

Also sold at a premium price, around $2 per case. But good to see other options besides Hornady appearing now.

 

[NamibHunter]

So silly question from someone who wants to do something rather impractical:

Context: I have a switch lug MPA rifle in 6.5 CM built on a Curtis Axiom short action. Shoots very well! Don’t want to build a completely new rifle and buy another $2K scope, kid-at-college situation. Objective is “ELR-on-a-tight budget”.

It is really very easy to change barrels at the range, takes only 30 seconds, and my zero moves two clicks. Want to shoot heavy 30 cal mono bullets at ELR distances (2,500 is my new personal goal), and i like the 241 gn Seneca bullet from Patriot Valley Arms. Bullet length is 2.050”!! Claimed G7 BC is 0.55... but even of the BC turns out to be 0.49 i am still in! Hoewer, it needs a 7 twist barrel.

Would a 300 PRC “work” on this SHORT action Curtis Axiom action in the MPA BA chassis?? I realize it will be single feed only, and a new magnum bolt will be needed ($400, ouch!), and extracting an unfired round will require the bolt to be removed. I am ok with these leas than nice inconveniences, tolerable.

Or should i stick with the 300 WSM case and give up 100-150 fps in speed? Will likely get a 28” or 29” barrel (an extra $50) to compensate for the less than ideal speed, and probably HBN coat the bullets. COAL is 3.60”:

A Seneca round loaded in a 300 PRC case would likely be closer to 4” long.