308 bullet choice

[TireMan]

This post reminds me I need to get out more...
I can't remember the last time I didn't use 168gr SMKs

Powder Valley has 175 SMKs right now, time to build an order

 

[5RWill]

308 bullet choice

Anybody?

Or perhaps lemme ask a different question:

What would a real-world speed be with 168gr Berger Hybrids from a 24" barrel, using Varget? Seems like 2680ish is typical of a 24" barrel with 175 SMKs...

With most factory setups it seems nearing 2700 is about max with a 175/178. I'm not sure on the 168s I imagine a little over that. Though most loads I've seen or data I've seen including the black hills I ran was around 2650 for the 168s. My bergers best groups were 44.5gr of varget giving me 2618. 45 only gave around 2640. I've yet to chrono my 178s.

That said two maybe three years ago I notice people with custom barrels achieving 2700 pretty easy with 175s even at 22". And as redneckbmxer and another member stated they're both getting 2700+ with 185s.

There is also the tight bore bartlien puts on their 30 cal barrels which IIRC adds some velocity.



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[Ultraman550]

ok....so over on Face Book Robar guns is claiming they're hitting IPSC size steel target at 1400 meters repeatedly with no problem using the SR21 (they're rendition of the MDTAC chambered in .308 which is pretty nice looking). Thats over 1500 yards. Quite possible with a shit ton of elevation and the right load but they said they're using FGMM (guessing 175 SMK) which I am having a hard time believing.

 

[JimmyAGR]

175's easily available. My range only goes to 300 yds so no worry of sub-sonic.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

not listed...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

It's hard to put an exact number on it. Two bullets of the same weight with the same charge in the same barrel could easily have a 50+FPS difference because of bearing surface differences alone. Then there's twist rate, rifling profile, and then the fact two barrels of the same make aren't going to be exactly the same. Then there's the actual load itself.

As long as your not loading some pussy loads anywhere from 2650-2850 should be achievable with a 168 at 308 speeds.

Why somebody would run a 168 over a 155 though is beyond me.

 

[BoilerUP]

Why somebody would run a 168 over a 155 though is beyond me.

Looking at the numbers of the 168 Hybrid vs. the 155 Hybrid, the 168 obviously isn't as flat but is better in the wind.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have no experience with the Berger 155's but they wouldn't be my first choice. I have always used the Scenars because the curve always matches up to a .510 BC at 2950-3050FPS. They work extremely well at those velocities.

 

[5RWill]

The 168 hybrid is a rare gem among the 168s, it's also incredibly long. I love the hybrid designs though. Hell of a BC for it's weight class if you can push it, it's a good round. I had some didn't mess around with them much, ended up selling them and switching to cheaper bullets as i said before.

 

[SOE_technician]

155 Scenar

155 @ 2930 FPS @ 1000 yards = 327.3 Inch drop, 94.8 Inches drift Flight time 1.560 sec, Energy 546 ft/lbs
175 @ 2720 FPS @ 1000 yards = 382.1 Inch drop, 102.8 Inches drift, Flight time 1.682 sec, Energy 527 ft/lbs

Using JBM 155 @ .236 G7, 175 @ .243, Sea Level, 59 degrees, 10 mph 90 degree cross wind

I have never reloaded the 155 scenar before any idea where to start with IMR 4064? I just got a box after all these guys saying how great they are gotta give them a try. Im lookin for a match projectile to work up my load with for a comp ( my first) in few months.

 

[garandman]

168 Amax. The best compromise. Blindingly accurate.

 

[todd]

I use 175 SMK BTHP's instead of 168 SMK's because the 168's weren't staying supersonic at 1K for me. 175's fixed that problem right up. Simple.

 

[malsa82]

I have never reloaded the 155 scenar before any idea where to start with IMR 4064? I just got a box after all these guys saying how great they are gotta give them a try. Im lookin for a match projectile to work up my load with for a comp ( my first) in few months.

I second this ^ I to am looking for a good starting point for a 155 scenar load. I'm also using 4064 but have some varget as well. Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

 

[dimar1492]

I second this ^ I to am looking for a good starting point for a 155 scenar load. I'm also using 4064 but have some varget as well. Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

What kind of brass are you using?

 

[Centuriator]

175 SMK BTHPs are performing precisely as indicated on the box that Federal Match grade with SMKs comes in.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I've got no scenar data with 4064 but with Varget start around 42gr and work up to be safe. They like to jump but also shoot well close to the lands. I've found that 46gr lit by a WLR in Lapua brass at 2.85 OAL shoots in just about everything and is very mild pressure. If you can load them out further you can often get up to around 48gr behind it but thats going to be compressed even with a drop tube at shorter mag lengths.

 

[rubicon_unlimited]

155 Berger Hybrid......takes the poor .308 to a whole new level.

I'm shooting them right at 2,900fps from 25" barrel which puts them right up there close to my 6.5mm's ballistically.

8.7 Mils to 1000yds (313.8" drop) at 1,500 Denisty Altitude.

What twist are you running?

 

[malsa82]

What kind of brass are you using?

Norma for the most part. I also have a ton of Federal GMM brass too.

 

[ridein4life]

Anyone shooting the sierra 175gr HPBT and ran a comparison on them up against the Hornady AMAX 178gr? 175s hold well within the .5 MOA on my savage fcp-sr but with the 1:10 twist made for 180+ grain rounds i was wondering if the 178 amax or the tactical Berger rounds up in the 190s hold better at the 500+ meter. undrestandable with the higher BC it will be more stable subsonic but is accuracy that much better to consider

 

[Rob01]

Anyone shooting the sierra 175gr HPBT and ran a comparison on them up against the Hornady AMAX 178gr? 175s hold well within the .5 MOA on my savage fcp-sr but with the 1:10 twist made for 180+ grain rounds i was wondering if the 178 amax or the tactical Berger rounds up in the 190s hold better at the 500+ meter. undrestandable with the higher BC it will be more stable subsonic but is accuracy that much better to consider

The 178 AMAX and 175 SMK have basically the same BC. I used to use the 175s years ago but went to the 178s back in 2005. Both shot very well. The 178 AMAX had a little less vertical dispersion due to the polymer tip keeping the BC more constant versus the ever varying tip on the SMK.

A 10 twist will shoot any of those bullets fine as well as 168s. Another bullet to look at is the 178 BTHP from Hornady. Has a .530 BC which is higher than the SMK and AMAX.

 

[matt2143]

The 178 amax and 178 bthp were great bullets and much more consistent than the 175 smk for me. The .560 BC of the 185 juggernaut and accuracy in the .2's and .3's won me over. More pricey but close in and all the way to the limit they excelled.

 

[branson1369]

The 178 AMAX and 175 SMK have basically the same BC. I used to use the 175s years ago but went to the 178s back in 2005. Both shot very well. The 178 AMAX had a little less vertical dispersion due to the polymer tip keeping the BC more constant versus the ever varying tip on the SMK.

A 10 twist will shoot any of those bullets fine as well as 168s. Another bullet to look at is the 178 BTHP from Hornady. Has a .530 BC which is higher than the SMK and AMAX.

I switched several years ago to the 178 A max as they seemed more consitant that the SMK's. I have had great results from 100 to 1k yds with them plus the 178 Amax is a tack driving screamer in my 300 win mag loads

 

[VTSEAL]

175 SMK's because it was relatively easy to get them in quantity and found several loads that worked great with them. I also like that it is easy to find factory ammo that is nearly identical to the hand loads. The 178 AMAX worked great in a couple of guns, but not my 700. Adding that to the fact that it wasn't easy to find factory loaded 178's, I went back to 175 SMK's.

 

[.284]

I'm kinda surprised there's no love for the Berger 168 hybrid targets. I get accuracy of almost .5 Moa at 2620 fps out of a 12 twist 26 inch shilen using varget and federal 210's and lapua brass. They are stable past 1000 yards. I believe I had about 42 minutes dialed for 1112 yard with a 100 yd zero. The BC advertised matched up within a click or two using a kestrel with Horus.

Anybody?

Or perhaps lemme ask a different question:

What would a real-world speed be with 168gr Berger Hybrids from a 24" barrel, using Varget? Seems like 2680ish is typical of a 24" barrel with 175 SMKs...

 

[ArmyJerry]

I mainly use 175 smk's, but also shoot 178's, 155 Nos CC's, For the bolt gun I use 175 SMK's 178 Amax/Match, for my M1a NM and AR 10's I use whatever I have on hand, mostly 175's in the M1A though. The 190's I save for the 06 and 300 wsm.

 

[ThreeOhh8]

I'm slinging 180's out of my 1-10"

 

[Will Fennell]

I've had great performance out of 155 Scenar's and 175 SMK's, but my favorite is the temporarily discontinued Hornady 178 gr BTHP. Higher BC than the 175 SMK, and was easy to work up a load for my TRG22( Lapua brass and varget). Luckily, I've bought up enough of these bullets to last me awhile....hopefully they will be producing them again soon!


Edit: I see now that the .30 cal 178gr BTHP has, as of Jan 1 2014, been added BACK to the production list!

 

[ridein4life]

I'm slinging 180's out of my 1-10"

What type of 180s?? on the savages with the 1:10 twist they say 180 and above are supposed to be the go to load but ive yet to meet anyone shooting them. Ive been leaning towards trying the Berger tacticals that are up in that range on up to the 200s. the Savage FCP-SR is a newer stick ive picked up and im gonna start with the Berger 168gr VLDs and see how they run and possibly the Hornady 178gr HPBT down the road since the Sierra 175gr are so hard to find out here.

 

[Flying Goose]

Tried 175 SMK's, gun hated them. Tried 168 SMK's, gun hated em. Tried 168 Amaxs, gun eats em like candy. No reasoning behind it. Shoot what your gun likes.

20" barrel Savage Model 10 with YHM can.

Same here I get about .25 MOA better results with Amax than SMK trying to find AMax right now is hard!

 

[Jackcrow73]

I guess I'm kind of surprised of the overwhelming votes for the 175 grain bullets and relatively low votes for the 155's. It seems like the 155's will outperform the 175's. I wonder if this is due to the lack of factory ammo produced with 155 grain billets.

 

[Rob01]

but my favorite is the temporarily discontinued Hornady 178 gr BTHP. ....hopefully they will be producing them again soon!

They are not on the suspend list per their website. If a bullet it suspended it says "Temporarily Suspended" in the red box instead of "Purachase from Retailer".

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .308 30 CAL :: 30 Cal .308 178 GR BTHP Match™
Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Bullets :: Rifle :: Choose by Caliber :: .308 30 CAL

 

[BoilerUP]

They are not on the suspend list per their website.

They were originally but it appears that Hornady has cranked their production back up, along with the .224 75gr A-Max and the .243 105 A-Max. Midway shows they should be in stock in a week or two.

.284 162gr Match and A-Max, not so much.

 

[peaceatwar]

I have never reloaded the 155 scenar before any idea where to start with IMR 4064? I just got a box after all these guys saying how great they are gotta give them a try. Im lookin for a match projectile to work up my load with for a comp ( my first) in few months.

I second this ^ I to am looking for a good starting point for a 155 scenar load. I'm also using 4064 but have some varget as well. Thanks for all the great info in this thread!

I loaded all the way up to 47.8grs of varget. Wasn't as accurate as 47.1 or 46.5 but had a better ES/SD at 46.5 which is what I settled at.

Fed 210M
Winchester Case
46.5grs Varget
155 Scenar COAL 2.800"
2935 FPS out of a 24" Tube

 

[Rob01]

They were originally but it appears that Hornady has cranked their production back up, along with the .224 75gr A-Max and the .243 105 A-Max. Midway shows they should be in stock in a week or two.

.284 162gr Match and A-Max, not so much.

Just didn't want people to read that and think they couldn't get the 178 BTHP.

 

[axshon]

175 SMK because they are reliable and available. I'd love to try out the 155s when I get more experience but for now I can't justify the 25%-30% cost increase for a box of bullets, even in bulk.

 

[smax]

Anybody tried the 155 A-Max in a 1 in 10" barrel?

 

[smschulz]

168's for the gas guns, 175~178 for the bolt guns.

 

[bluto77]

I voted for 175 SMK's because that's what I'm currently using in my Rem 700 action trued up to Kreiger 26" 1:12 twist barrel. Blowing the 168's out of the water giving me sub .5 MOA accurcy, but I haven't tried them any further than 300 yards. Still haven't landed on the right load for them yet either. I also have some 155 and 178 gr AMAX's that I'm planning on running in my 300 WSM. Actually ran the 178 AMAX with IMR 4350 in the 300 WSM this weekend with good results, so not sure if I want to try them in the 308. Been wanting to look into the 155's though, and I think this thread is going to prompt me to do so. Should I go 155 AMAX or Scenar though?

 

[colscar]

i know my 700p likes 150's but im going to load some 168's see how it works with those then might try some 175's

 

[Jackcrow73]

Is anybody using the Sierra 155 Palmas? The BC looks pretty good and they are quite a bit cheaper than the Lapua or Berger bullets.

 

[Desert_Racer]

tag for later.

I shoot the 175SMKs mostly. I bought a couple boxes of the 155 sceners to try. I think they will work great for shooting yotes until I can get my 22-250 up and running. Haven't had time to do much reloading between deployments and endless TDYs lately though.

I have also been trying to get a hold of some 178gr AMAX's but they are out of stock everywhere I've looked and I'm always too slow on the draw when they pop up in the for sale section of the forum.

 

[VKC]

175smk is time tested and has lots of data...loading, BC at different velocities, ballistics cards, etc. It also allows you to stretch out your range a little more than the 168grs.

 

[dimar1492]

175smk is time tested and has lots of data...loading, BC at different velocities, ballistics cards, etc. It also allows you to stretch out your range a little more than the 168grs.

As far as having data on a bullet, You can gather your own data in about 10min. As something as small as a little variance in sight height from the sight height used to calculate the ballistic card could throw the chart off enough to cause misses at distance.I like to shoot 175's too,but also have realized the performance is mediocre compared to some of the other projectiles. So I prefer 155's

 

[Will Fennell]

Rob,
Thanks! I researched on the Hornaday website, and I see that my favorite bullet is BACK on the 2014 products production list( added on Jan 1 2014). Sorry if I added any confusion....

Best regards,

Will

 

[5RWill]

Just didn't want people to read that and think they couldn't get the 178 BTHP.

Was going to ask you about that. I saw that article posted last year that they were but they're still listed on the site as you said. I hope they never even think about suspending production of them again. It's my go to load for my 308. Best I've shot so far as well.


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[nic_bravo_whiskey]

Tag

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[bear_blade]

210 grain Matrix VLD's (G1 BC .637, G7 = .326) using Reloader 17, hitting 2640 fps. Just picked up some Berger 190 gr. Looking forward to working up loads.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I wonder if this is due to the lack of factory ammo produced with 155 grain billets.

I'd say this has a lot to do with it. A lot of people don't load and don't have any interest in loading. FGMM is by far the best value in factory match ammo and the 175gr simply outperforms the 168. There's 155 stuff available as well as other weights buts its expensive and not as available.

For those who do load there's more data on the 175 and 168 and many people are to lazy to do development, that or just don't know how. The fact you can take any case besides LC (it has lower case capacity so extra caution should be used) and stuff 44gr of varget behind a 175SMK at 2.80" OAL lit by almost any primer and it will shoot in almost every 308 rifle doesn't help things either.

 

[levi8599]

185 Berger juggernaut w/ 43.5gr IMR 4064 using a 24" rock creek 1/10 twist I get 2750fps .5moa.

 

[SOE_technician]

155 Lapua Scenars are great , bought some due to this thread took um to 1K past wkend. Found my favorite projectile .