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Join the contest SubscribeI’m shooting 155 scenars easily out of my 18” .308 TRG @2860 fps (1930 fps@600yds). Either round will work, I like the .308 especially hunting inside of 600 yds.Folks are having great luck on game with the 147 eldm down to 1800 fps. That's 600 ish with a 16" 6.5 CM.
Good luck finding a bullet that will carry that velocity past 475 or so with a 308. Velocity will suck with any decently high BC bullet. plus recoil will be a factor in a lighter weight rifle.
You definitely want the 6.5, if not a 6mm or 22 creedmoor.
If you go short 6.5 Creedmoor, it may be worth playing with light bullets, such as Hornady 123 ELD's and Lapua 123 Scenars. That's the route I'm taking to pick up some velocity.
OP said short handy rifle for trekking, I’d like the same to be ran always suppressed. A can on my 26in barrel gets unwieldy.Energy doesn’t kill critters.
So eff all that noise
Why so short of a barrel?
If a guy was using on boats often or bush bashing monkey scrub or alders then I can see the appeal but if ur hunting Muleys and elk and often shooting 600 yards to sheep ur probably not on that fight.
Please tell me they’re bolt guns … would love to see a photo if they are.My 11” 308w with 155 hybrid is transonic at 770 yards where as my 12” 6.5CM with 140s is transonic at 980 yards.
The 308 has a higher velocity despite the shorter barrel and heavier bullet, but granted my 308 is a hand load v the 6.5CM being a factory Berger load.
Will run some hunter later to give you comparative energy.
Have not hunted with the 12”, but the 11” does very well. Haven’t had a runner yet with 155 hybrids. Both are shooting we Berger bullets.
For what it's worth, this is what I did. 16" Proof Barrel in a Q Fix with a Silencerco Omega using the Gtiffin Titanium Brake and Plan A Mount. Shooting 147s over 42.2-42.5 RL16 gives 3-shot groups in the .2-.4s and spits em out at 2555-2570 with SDs of 3.8 for 6 shots. With a Vortex LHT this is my perfect mountain/hunting rifle and it's pure sex to boot.Biggest thing is going to be impact velocity at any given distance for the bullet to expand to the effective. I don’t think that’s going to happen with either of your options in those barrel lengths if you want performance to 600 yards. Step it up to 18” and there’s some 6.5 bullet options that will work.
If you want a badass lightweight packable hunting rifle pick up a Q Fix, an 18-20” Proof CF 6.5 barrel, some Barnes 127gr LRX ammo and do the damn thing. It’s perfect for what you’re looking for.
My personal take: at 16" your 300WSM options will not really perform that much better than .308win, since you don't really have enough barrel to make use of the powder burn a magnum cartridge affords (at least with factory loadings)
My suggestion would be to find a .308 short action you like and consider something that will fit an MDT HNT26 chassis, then buy a case of Federal Terminal Ascent .308w
The terminal ascent line from federal is one of the better factory loadings I've ever come across, and as stated in other threads here and discussions elsewhere, it's one of the few "premium factory loads" that I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off because it actually does what it says on the tin. Excellent expansion from 0-800+ yards, better wind bucking than pretty much anything that isn't a handloaded hybrid ogive otm bullet.
using a Hnt26 chassis and carbon fiber wrapped barrel should give you a very lightweight rifle, especially with lower magnification optics.
Federal also makes TA in 6.5CM, 300WSM, and 300WM if you're inclined to go those routes, but I don't think you'd get maximum performance.
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7mm-08 will do as an option, but if you're not handloading I wouldn't recommend it.Appreciate the response. Are there no other elk-worthy calibers optimized around a shorter barrel? 7mm-08, 300WSM or any other short mag? Or is 308 more or less the only one?
It's really early in the lifecycle but a Sig Cross in .277 Fury might be just the ticket. A 150gr projectile doing 2800fps out of a 16 inch barrel seems like it's exactly what the doctor ordered. Personally I'm still in "wait and see" mode but I really hope the cartridge takes off.Appreciate the response. Are there no other elk-worthy calibers optimized around a shorter barrel? 7mm-08, 300WSM or any other short mag? Or is 308 more or less the only one?
Please tell me they’re bolt guns … would love to see a photo if they are.
It's really early in the lifecycle but a Sig Cross in .277 Fury might be just the ticket. A 150gr projectile doing 2800fps out of a 16 inch barrel seems like it's exactly what the doctor ordered. Personally I'm still in "wait and see" mode but I really hope the cartridge takes off.
I'd buy a Cross rifle right now if dies, load data and brass was even semi-available. But until that happens I'm going to have to sit on the fence and hope.I completely agree. the 277 is very intriguing.
- To get those crazy velocities, we are goin to need those cartridges with the steel base. When does Sig make that ammo available civilian market in volumes necessary to support demand?
- can commonly available actions - Savage, M700 and clones, Tikka take the pressure? If so, I see an Origin SA build in my future.
This is Sniper Hide, if you ain’t loading to 80k, you ain't trying hard enough!I'd buy a Cross rifle right now if dies, load data and brass was even semi-available. But until that happens I'm going to have to sit on the fence and hope.
Maybe Sig will share more details as Shot Show approaches. Or if we are really lucky other manufacturers will license the technology and jump on the bandwagon.
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I don't think anything else out there is officially compatible with 80k PSI rounds. So we will have to wait for new actions, use the Sig Cross, or be really crazy and use an existing action. My hope is that manufacturers realize that if high pressure rounds take off a whole bunch of us are going to be in the market for new guns, ammo, and reloading supplies.
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I don't think anything else out there is officially compatible with 80k PSI rounds. So we will have to wait for new actions, use the Sig Cross, or be really crazy and use an existing action. My hope is that manufacturers realize that if high pressure rounds take off a whole bunch of us are going to be in the market for new guns, ammo, and reloading supplies.
I’ve had a hands-on with the MCX Spear, they’re using aerospace grade high-nickel steels to gain the strength without having to increase the size drastically, much the same as ruger has done with the SFAR. it is definitely not “just an AR10 action” the barrel is also made of a new material, but my friend was understandably not of a desire to clean the finish off a spot and put it under an x-ray diffraction gunI looked at a Sig Cross once and the action did not seem particularly beefy, bolt and 3 lugs don't appear especially strong and the semi-auto gun the Army is buying looks just like an AR10 action. I don't think either gun was built to be stronger than a typical bolt action rifle.
I think the metal base was designed to absorb/delay some of the max pressure before it gets transferred to the action. If that is true, it should work with most common bolt action rifles.
IIRC the bolt in the sig cross is circa 20-21mm diameter, with modular bolt face, which can presumably come in different grades of materials if required for the high pressure rounds. I don't think this is a case of 'eyballing it' being good engineering evaluation.bolt and 3 lugs don't appear especially strong
IIRC the bolt in the sig cross is circa 20-21mm diameter, with modular bolt face, which can presumably come in different grades of materials if required for the high pressure rounds. I don't think this is a case of 'eyballing it' being good engineering evaluation.
just my $0.02 cents, but i have no insider info
"Save $$" and "Barrett Fieldcraft" don't go in the same sentence.Save your $$ and buy a used Barrett Fieldcraft In either caliber.
Thank me later.
Certainly an option, but I tend not to assume that everyone reloads just because I do, so I try and stick to calibers with a decent selection of factory available ammoThe 35's. This includes every 38 Spl , .357 Mag pistol bullet. This includes every loading of the 35 Remington. This includes everything .357-.358".
Good to know, thanks. I'm surprised you can have a sig cross in England. What's the rule? Just no semi-auto? Is it a miserable regulatory process to get a bolt action or pistol? Mostly curiousI have a Sig Cross in 6.5CM and it loves Winchester Deer 125g which come out at 2668 fps. Zeroed at 175y, which gives a secondary zero of 47y, and the groups are sub MOA. I just aim dead on out to 200y no matter what the wind and the round does the rest.
I am not saying 6.5CM is a better round than a .308, just letting you know what combination works for me.
I am in England and all my shooting has been in Wiltshire, Gloucestershire & Cornwall for deer and foxes.
As long as you have the cleared land to shoot on you can have a bolt action rifle subject to licence approval/background checks, etc. The calibre and use of the weapon will have to be stated and agreed on by police too. You can have a semi-auto .22LR or .22WMR, but the same rules apply to owning them.Good to know, thanks. I'm surprised you can have a sig cross in England. What's the rule? Just no semi-auto? Is it a miserable regulatory process to get a bolt action or pistol? Mostly curious
I am guessing you do not or have no desire to reload? You mention "factory" precision hunter ammo, but I'm guessing you could easily make your 2650 with some reloads after playing around with a few formulas. Oddly enough I have been reading more and more that shooters are preferring the ELD-M vs. ELD-X for hunting which is unusual, maybe the bonded X bullet not doing as much damage as the M bullet which likely comes apart after impact. Sierra's TMK's seem to get a better rap than Hornady's ELD-X FWIW.I just went through this myself. I had my gunsmith spin up an 18" 6.5 Creedmoor in a ~3B(ish) contour for hunting.
The plan initially was to use Hornady 143 ELD-X precision hunter ammo, which I have a few boxes of. Out of that barrel, I got velocities averaging right around 2500 fps, pretty slow. Factory Prime 130's are in the 2800+ fps range, Hornady factory 140 AMAX and ELD's 2600+ fps.
I was hoping for ~2650 fps out of the precision hunter ammo, but the short barrel just wasn't going to make it happen.
If you go short 6.5 Creedmoor, it may be worth playing with light bullets, such as Hornady 123 ELD's and Lapua 123 Scenars. That's the route I'm taking to pick up some velocity.
I have given this some serious consideration as well, I have a 686 .357 that I love and have often thought how viable a 357 lever action rifle would be for short range/jungle work, I do not think it replaces a good bolt action, but may compliment it well especially if you live in an area where the jungle is thick. Plus there is something nostalgic about lever actions, maybe because I grew up watching westerns and idolized the "Rifleman"Share rifle and pistol caliber. Add a .357 lever gun or 35 Remington (141) and a revolver and you're covered.
I am guessing you do not or have no desire to reload? You mention "factory" precision hunter ammo, but I'm guessing you could easily make your 2650 with some reloads after playing around with a few formulas. Oddly enough I have been reading more and more that shooters are preferring the ELD-M vs. ELD-X for hunting which is unusual, maybe the bonded X bullet not doing as much damage as the M bullet which likely comes apart after impact. Sierra's TMK's seem to get a better rap than Hornady's ELD-X FWIW.
The shortest "prefit" barrel I can get from Proof in a carbon wrap is 22" for 6.5 Creedmoor (for Defiance), I'd prefer a 20" and can get that in 308 but not certain yet I want to go 308. I used to be a diehard "go 308 or go home" fan, but a situation back around 2014 changed my mind and I haven't really looked back (switched my 308's to 6.5 Creed) until recently. I do think there is some merit in a lightweight hunter to the fact the 6.5 Creed is a "softer" shooter vs 308 which tends to be a thumper in lightweight rigs.
Glassy in the shitI have given this some serious consideration as well, I have a 686 .357 that I love and have often thought how viable a 357 lever action rifle would be for short range/jungle work, I do not think it replaces a good bolt action, but may compliment it well especially if you live in an area where the jungle is thick.
Where did you find that picture of me
How about 300WSM vs. 7 Saum vs. 7mm-08? Priorities are lightweight, ammo availability, and long effective range.I myself crank up the cartridge when shortening the barrel.
I’d run a 300 WSM. Or a 6.5 Prc or Saum in a shorty. And you wouldn’t be losing anything.
I have a 16” 308 and run 155s in it. For deer.
I absolutely loved my 7 SAUM and felt it offered enough speed I could shorten quite a bit and still get plenty of speed and energy on large game at distance, but I never did chop it down and ended up selling my rifle. If you're going with factory ammo I'd say 300 WSM, if reloading then 7 SAUM without question, just not enough oomph in 7-08 from short barrel IMO.How about 300WSM vs. 7 Saum vs. 7mm-08? Priorities are lightweight, ammo availability, and long effective range.