Cool, thanks. Their website isn't working very well, so, yeah, I'd assume they're out of business.
Anyone else make a nearly 3.000" COAL magazine that's AICS style that will work with the Magpul Hunter floor plate?
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.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
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Anyone else make a nearly 3.000" COAL magazine that's AICS style that will work with the Magpul Hunter floor plate?
You might like to look at the ARC mag:
ARC MAG 10-Round 7.62x51, 308 WIN
Or maybe the MDT without the binder plate???
Shop MDT AICS Magazines for Bolt Action Rifles
MDT AICS Magazines offer reliable feeding in your hunting or competition bolt action rifle. Available in 3 to 12 round and polymer or metal from .223 to .338.
mdttac.com
. . . that is, if you can find any of these in stock.
I had Larry Racine cut me a 28” Brux Hvy Palma for my Impact. I had 5lbs of Accurate 4064 sitting and wanted to try it. Ran 175 SMKs over 42.6, 42.8 and 43.0 grains .020 off the lands in 1x Lapua brass and BR2s. Broke bbl in w/ 30 rnds and then shot these today at 100. Dot is 1/4“. Shows potential
I had Larry Racine cut me a 28” Brux Hvy Palma for my Impact. I had 5lbs of Accurate 4064 sitting and wanted to try it. Ran 175 SMKs over 42.6, 42.8 and 43.0 grains .020 off the lands in 1x Lapua brass and BR2s. Broke bbl in w/ 30 rnds and then shot these today at 100. Dot is 1/4“. Shows potential
View attachment 7603956View attachment 7603957View attachment 7603958
Nice! Looks like a little seating depth adjustment might take away a little of that vertical for the 42.6 gr???
I happened to recently buy 2 lbs of Accurate 4064 (this lot no included in the recall) to see how it might compare to my IMR-4064, which I've been using a lot of lately. Since I haven't been shooting much beyond 200 yds lately, I've been shooting 168 SMK's. So this last weekend I ran a ladder and found a good node this Accurate powder from 44.8 to 45.2 grs (was running .02 gr increments). Was getting groups in the 3's and under and with a little tuning, I think it'll do a lot better. I had them loaded to 2.870 COAL where the case was just shy of 100% full putting me at .048 off the lands. 45.0 grs was pushing my 168 SMK's to 2739 fps average out of my 24" barrel. And these were loaded the FC brass with Federal 210 LR primers. My IMR-4640 logs don't allow me to get enough powder into the case at that COAL to get that average velocity even though its burn rate is higher. It would take almost 102% of case capacity for the IMR-4064 to get to that speed. It's doable, but I try to stay away from compressed loads as there can be substantial temperature change in a day here in Arizona. A little more testing this Accurate powder to see what load can give me good consistency.
I did. Hear ya go. 2x means I only shot 2 rnds over the chrono to get a quick speed. I don‘t give the SD’s much weight.
1x Lapua brass / annealed
175gr SMK
Accurate 4064
Charge. Velocity / SD
42.6. 2662 SD 19.7 2x
42.8. 2698 SD 6.4 2x
43.0. 2721 SD 12.7 2x
Honestly I’m happy with 42.6. This bbl only has 30 rnds on it. After I get 100-150 on it I’ll repeat this test at 300 and pick one. I have 185 Berger Juggs up next to test.
Chamber is a little short....
COAL 2.790
CTO 2.130 = .020 jump.
Have not done a jump test. Waiting until bbl is seasoned and fully sped up.
Ah ha. I was thinking you had to be at or below 2.800 COAL to get that velocity. That shows the performance you're getting with your powder is right in line with the performance I get with my lot of Accurate 4064. Thanks for responding.
lol . . . "a little short"? My chamber is a "little" long, for if I were to load my 175 SMK's to a COAL of 2.790, I'd be .128 off my lands.
My barrel is also 28”. May be giving me a little extra speed. I had another 308 barrel that I could not get to shoot. 1-2moa. I ended up doing a jump test in .020 increments. When I hit .100 of jump, groups shrank to 1/2 @ 200. Couldn’t believe it.Ah ha. I was thinking you had to be at or below 2.800 COAL to get that velocity. That shows the performance you're getting with your powder is right in line with the performance I get with my lot of Accurate 4064. Thanks for responding.
lol . . . "a little short"? My chamber is a "little" long, for if I were to load my 175 SMK's to a COAL of 2.790, I'd be .128 off my lands.
Yeah, your 28" give you ~70 fps more than a 24" would like mine.
Since I started "precision" reloading a few years ago I continually read about jump and how getting the right "jump" improves accuracy. And I keept wondering what it is about the "jump" that's responsible for it. Obviously, there's more than one factor at play. When I found a jump that worked well, I tried to keep it there. But, as we all know, the throat erodes and so it's a challenge to keep the same jump and in fact, and as I tried to do so I found I'd have to adjust the powder charge in an attempt to keep the accuracy. Then, I came across Erik Cortina's video about not chasing the lands. So I thought I'd give it a try and not worry about keeping the same jump and just load my cartridges with the same seating depth regardless of the jump.
Typically, I had found that my .308 liked a jump of around .010 to .015 best. So I found a powder and seating depth that gave me excellent results (like consistently getting groups in the .3's) with 168 & 175 SMK's. After ~2,000 rounds now at keeping the same seating depth, I'm now at ~.050 off the lands and I'm still getting groups consistently in the .3's.
So, I ask myself, why am I still getting those good groups with such a different jump now than long ago? My hypothesis is that the jump is of little importance, but it's the seating depth, which effects the available case volume and powder as it relates to the pressure being developed reacting with the harmonics of the gun/barrel to produce small groups. Once a seating depth is found that produces excellent results, keep it there . . . at least until the accuracy goes away. This all seems to me to be supported by what Erik Cortina says as well at the tests done on bullet jump shown in the articles at the Precision Rifle Blog.
Now days, when someone say that they found a particular jump that works really well, I now feel I better understand that what's really happened is they've found a good seating depth for that powder charge that works with that particular gun/barrel harmonics.
And that seating depth can be kept there for a long time even though the jump increases due to throat erosion.
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My favorite;
FN SPR, 1/11 24inch factory barrel
175 SMK
43.5 IMR 4064
Federal 210
LC NM 64
OAL 2.810
2726 fps
.32 MOA @ 100 yards.
FN SPR, 1/11 24inch factory barrel
175 SMK
43.5 IMR 4064
Federal 210
LC NM 64
OAL 2.810
2726 fps
.32 MOA @ 100 yards.
R700 1/10 24" factory bull
178 ELDM
44.1 CFE .223
Fed. 210
Federal brass
OAL 2.850
CBTO 2.215
Unknown FPS
.40 MOA at 100yd
Brand new to this reloading gig (first reloaded round was in February), so I don't have a chrono yet. Ladder test at 300yd for visual velocity changes, then 3 shot groups for refining the load.
178 ELDM
44.1 CFE .223
Fed. 210
Federal brass
OAL 2.850
CBTO 2.215
Unknown FPS
.40 MOA at 100yd
Brand new to this reloading gig (first reloaded round was in February), so I don't have a chrono yet. Ladder test at 300yd for visual velocity changes, then 3 shot groups for refining the load.
Guys, I'm reading this on my phone but... can I search this thread for say specific key words?
I have a 700P I would like to start reloading for. My hope is to find someone with the same rifle and check out their recipe. Figure it's another option vs manuals and quickload.
Thank you
I have a 700P I would like to start reloading for. My hope is to find someone with the same rifle and check out their recipe. Figure it's another option vs manuals and quickload.
Thank you
A good plinking load in a well-known accuracy node is Lapua .308 Win LRP (large rifle primer) brass, 44.0gr. of Varget, Federal 210/210M primers (or CCI 200/BR2), and Nosler 168 Custom Comps seated 2.810" COAL. It's my range plinking load for my 5R Milspec .308 Win, and it shoots ragged-hole groups. I have suggested it to MANY people who also had similar results.
Same load data under a 175SMK COAL 2.82-2.83 works well
A lot depends on the particular bullets and powder you have. If you happen to have some IMR-4064, and some 168 SMK's (or even Nosler 168CC's), you might consider 41-42.5 grs of it for these bullets.
42.5 of it works well for me last weekend in a cartridge loaded to an COAL of 2.856.
Thanks guys, you have been a lot of help.
I guess in this climate your right about , we'll first what components do you have.
I do have Varget. However I would like to keep it for another caliber I shoot.
That leaves IMR 4166, 4064 and SW Precision.
Brass is no problem, as are primers.
I have a bunch of 150 SMKS and 175. Would prefer to try the former if possible.
Guess I'll try putting your recipes in QL and see if I can come close to matching your exit times.
Thanks for all your help, I'm recovering from Surgery and need something to keep the mind busy, so to speak.
I guess in this climate your right about , we'll first what components do you have.
I do have Varget. However I would like to keep it for another caliber I shoot.
That leaves IMR 4166, 4064 and SW Precision.
Brass is no problem, as are primers.
I have a bunch of 150 SMKS and 175. Would prefer to try the former if possible.
Guess I'll try putting your recipes in QL and see if I can come close to matching your exit times.
Thanks for all your help, I'm recovering from Surgery and need something to keep the mind busy, so to speak.
Well guys had a pleasant day at the range today. First time out since surgery in February.
Assembled some SMK 175s, liked them enough that I just ordered 500 more. If you would like the stats/data I can post it up.
Have a good one
Assembled some SMK 175s, liked them enough that I just ordered 500 more. If you would like the stats/data I can post it up.
Have a good one
Has anyone tried the Alco 168s that Rex talked about in his videos? Can't find much data on it here.
Getting into 308 handloading (paid a small fortune for primers/powder) and they look like a good option. I have a 24" in 1-11.25" and a 20" in 1-11.25". 4064 powder, CCI 200s, large pile of once fired Norma brass I kept from my factory boxes.
I take both rifles out to 1100-1200. 175gr. FGMM has been working well even at those ranges!
Getting into 308 handloading (paid a small fortune for primers/powder) and they look like a good option. I have a 24" in 1-11.25" and a 20" in 1-11.25". 4064 powder, CCI 200s, large pile of once fired Norma brass I kept from my factory boxes.
I take both rifles out to 1100-1200. 175gr. FGMM has been working well even at those ranges!
How does it do Long Range in the wind? I am looking for a new load for my 308 bolt gun and have to buy some new bullets. Not sure what to go with? Of course 175SMK is a good option, but I'm trying to make sure it's the best option? Berger is doing some impressive stuff these days but just not sure what to go with and I kind of need to go ahead and get. 400-500 for the Pig River CR2 school coming up in August...
Long Range is a very subjective term. For me, I don't start considering something "long range" until it gets out beyond 500 yards, but for some folks who have never shot beyond 100 yards, they might consider 200-300 yards a "long range" shot.
For long range target shooting, I shoot Berger 210 VLDs or 215 Hybrids backed by Varget in Lapua brass with Federal 210M primers. You'll need to work up a powder charge in your own rifle, but I'd start by looking into the Berger manual.
I'm definitely talking about beyond 500 yds. I know that I could load jugs but I was asking how that bullet did at range. I don't really want to have a different bullet for different distances.
The best option is purely subjective. I think you're probably in the right ballpark with the 175 SMK.
I shoot 168gr Berger Hybrids beyond 500yds frequently. It was available when I started buying components.
I've got several. Bullets coming that I bought off a member here to try out. Likely the 168 or 175smk will be. The. "Best overall" for me but we shall see
FWIW - My primary training round out to 600yds is the 69gr TMK out of a 223Rem bolt gun. I live in NW Wyoming. Wind is a given.
Good Journey!
So I just picked up some 185 Berger hybrids. After how well my FGMM with 185 juggernauts shot I wanted to try these boolits.
With my experience reloading for 6 dasher the past 8 years, I started at book max (41.0-gr) of IMR-4166. My manual doesn't list this powder but my burn-rate chart puts it right with 4064 so that was my reference in the manual.
Anyway, I loaded 41.0, 41.4, 41.8 and 42.2 gr. The 42.4 load was by far the best grouping. I got no ejector marks or hard bolt lift.
Since this was the max load for me and 1.2-gr > book max, do these primers look flattened? Average velocity was only 2,649-fps measured with a Lab Radar.
What's a typical expected speed for 185's from a .308 10-twist 24" barrel?
With my experience reloading for 6 dasher the past 8 years, I started at book max (41.0-gr) of IMR-4166. My manual doesn't list this powder but my burn-rate chart puts it right with 4064 so that was my reference in the manual.
Anyway, I loaded 41.0, 41.4, 41.8 and 42.2 gr. The 42.4 load was by far the best grouping. I got no ejector marks or hard bolt lift.
Since this was the max load for me and 1.2-gr > book max, do these primers look flattened? Average velocity was only 2,649-fps measured with a Lab Radar.
What's a typical expected speed for 185's from a .308 10-twist 24" barrel?
primer cratering I do believe. It is my understanding may or may not be a sign of high pressure. Myself, I back off when I get this.
A good place to start would be Varget. I tested several boxes of the Palma 155’s a couple of years ago with my 16” 308. Used Varget, Benchmark, RL15, N140, N540, H335, 748, and 3031. Looking back on my data it looks like Varget had the best combination of accuracy and standard deviations. Best Varget load was 47 grains, GM210, Lapua brass, loaded to 2.840” COAL. Average velocity was 2626, the single five shot group I fired was around 1.5” at 200 yards. I started at 44.5 grains which averaged 2487 FPS and about a 3” group. Accuracy tightened up towards the end as powder increased. This was in a factory Ruger Gunsite Scout topped with a Leupy fixed 2.5ish scout scope in 2016 so take that for what it’s worth. Didn’t peruse the Palma 155’s after this final Varget load so it’s not been repeated or tested at distance. I found better accuracy across the board with the 168 class bullets.
Also tried H4895 with other brands of 155’s with good success in the scout rifle. The best loads were right at 100 FPS over the Varget load above but with double the SD’s. I do not have the older Sierra 155 bullet data to compare it to.
On a side note, I tested the 155 Sierra TMK’s and ELD-M’s two years ago in my 26” barreled 308 and found both Varget and RL15 to do exceedingly well, with the same brass and primers. Velocities ranged from the mid 2800’s to just over 3000. Hope this helps.
2,650~ fps sounds about right. I am using 44.3gr Varget in Lapua brass with 185gr Juggernaut in a 26" barrel, I am getting 2700 fps.
Even factory ammo shows "cratered" primers in my gun, nearly all calibers. It's a Zermatt/Bighorn TL3.
In my dasher I'll see ejector wipe and get a sticky bolt. That's when I know to back off. Didn't get that here with the .308W which is why I asked.
In my dasher I'll see ejector wipe and get a sticky bolt. That's when I know to back off. Didn't get that here with the .308W which is why I asked.
Fine tuning a load last month. I shot this on the 7th of July. Unfortunately, this ended my 175gr Berger VLD Target bullets. I can not find them anywhere.
Rifle: Prison Sex, KRG X-Ray chassis Gen III FDE
Barrel: Bartlein 22" SS 0.308/0.300 5R 1/10 D058929 -10-
Action: Big Horn Arms TL3 Remington 700 SA
Scope: Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56mm F1 T3 SPHUR 4001 mount
Trigger: CMC Remington 700 adjustable ultra precision - flat bow 2.5lbs
Varget, FED 210, Berger 175gr VLD Targets, Alpha munitions virgin brass
Weather: Temp - 62.7, P - 28.42, H - 78.7. DA - 2227
Powder fine tune:
Seating depth fine tune:
Final load information:
Rifle: Prison Sex, KRG X-Ray chassis Gen III FDE
Barrel: Bartlein 22" SS 0.308/0.300 5R 1/10 D058929 -10-
Action: Big Horn Arms TL3 Remington 700 SA
Scope: Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56mm F1 T3 SPHUR 4001 mount
Trigger: CMC Remington 700 adjustable ultra precision - flat bow 2.5lbs
Varget, FED 210, Berger 175gr VLD Targets, Alpha munitions virgin brass
Weather: Temp - 62.7, P - 28.42, H - 78.7. DA - 2227
Powder fine tune:
Seating depth fine tune:
Final load information:
| Berger 175gr VLD/Varget/FED 210 | |
| Jam (BTO) | 2.1830 |
| Jam -0.020k (BTO) | 2.1630 |
| Powder ES/SD Node | 42.4gr 6/3.21 |
| Seating Depth Node | 2.1450 |
| Longest -0.001 | 2.1440 |
IMR 4064 Powder and seating refinement:
Rifle: Prison Sex, KRG X-Ray chassis Gen III FDE
Barrel: Bartlein 22" SS 0.308/0.300 5R 1/10 D058929 -10-
Action: Big Horn Arms TL3 Remington 700 SA
Scope: Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56mm F1 T3 SPHUR 4001 mount
Trigger: CMC Remington 700 adjustable ultra precision - flat bow 2.5lbs
IMR 4064, CCI 200, Lapua Scenar-L 175gr OTM, Alpha munitions virgin brass
Weather: Temp - 78.6, P - 28.53, H - 64.6. DA - 3160
Final results:
Rifle: Prison Sex, KRG X-Ray chassis Gen III FDE
Barrel: Bartlein 22" SS 0.308/0.300 5R 1/10 D058929 -10-
Action: Big Horn Arms TL3 Remington 700 SA
Scope: Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56mm F1 T3 SPHUR 4001 mount
Trigger: CMC Remington 700 adjustable ultra precision - flat bow 2.5lbs
IMR 4064, CCI 200, Lapua Scenar-L 175gr OTM, Alpha munitions virgin brass
Weather: Temp - 78.6, P - 28.53, H - 64.6. DA - 3160
Final results:
| Lapua 175gr SCENAR-L/IMR 4064/CCI 200 | ||
| 2.1830 | |
| Jam -0.010k (BTO) | 2.1730 | |
| Powder ES/SD Node | 40.9gr/2.65 | |
| Seating Depth Node | 2.1520 | |
| Longest -0.001 | 2.1510 |
Attachments
Being new to reloading I tend to go down some rabbit holes. All in an effort to understand my new addiction, I mean hobby. So here we go, I have been shooting virgin Alpha Munitions brass. I have conducted my load development on virgin brass. I am/have learned a lot during this process and decided to load 50 rounds of once fired brass. 10 rounds at my load (40.9gr/BTO 2.1510) for zero/fouler) 4 rounds each starting at 40.1 and ending at 41.9 in .2 increments, seated at 2.1510. This was to see how much my load development would change since I did it on virgin brass. This is picture heavy cause words are hard.
Here are the details:
Rifle:
Weather:
T: 78.2F, BP: 28.31, H:70.9, DA: 3438
10 Rounds @ 100yds:
Once fired powder check, shot @ 200yds, 4 rounds for each charge weight:
40.1 -
40.3 -
40.5 -
40.7 -
40.9 -
41.1 -
41.3 -
41.5 -
41.7 -
41.9 -
MV, ES & SDs:
Group size:
Nice graph:
Putting it all together:
Groups 41.7 & 41.9, I lost my focus. The angles of the bench and shooting through a tube had my rifle barely on the bench. You can correlate the higher MV with the elevation differences in the groups. The left and right variances are on me as I did not account for wind at all.
I have a pretty stable node from 40.5 - 40.9, consideration paid to the 2638 mv on the first round of the 40.9. This node has been consistent throughout my testing. I am debating testing any more on seating depth. 2.1510 seems to be working. I may do another 50 rounds dancing around 2.1510 @ 40.7gr. Starting at 2.1630 - 2.1450, 5 rounds per depth. I am being anal or in depth or whatever you want to call it, due to learning and refining my reloading etc. Plus its fun. I mean neat graphs and all.
Here are the details:
Rifle:
| Prison Sex, KRG X-Ray chassis Gen III FDE |
| Bartlein 22" SS 0.308/0.300 5R 1/10 D058929 -10- |
| Big Horn Arms TL3 Remington 700 SA |
| Nightforce ATACR 5-25x56mm F1 T3 SPHUR 4001 mount |
| CMC Remington 700 adjustable ultra precision - flat bow 2.5lbs |
Weather:
T: 78.2F, BP: 28.31, H:70.9, DA: 3438
10 Rounds @ 100yds:
Once fired powder check, shot @ 200yds, 4 rounds for each charge weight:
40.1 -
40.3 -
40.5 -
40.7 -
40.9 -
41.1 -
41.3 -
41.5 -
41.7 -
41.9 -
MV, ES & SDs:
Group size:
Nice graph:
Putting it all together:
Groups 41.7 & 41.9, I lost my focus. The angles of the bench and shooting through a tube had my rifle barely on the bench. You can correlate the higher MV with the elevation differences in the groups. The left and right variances are on me as I did not account for wind at all.
I have a pretty stable node from 40.5 - 40.9, consideration paid to the 2638 mv on the first round of the 40.9. This node has been consistent throughout my testing. I am debating testing any more on seating depth. 2.1510 seems to be working. I may do another 50 rounds dancing around 2.1510 @ 40.7gr. Starting at 2.1630 - 2.1450, 5 rounds per depth. I am being anal or in depth or whatever you want to call it, due to learning and refining my reloading etc. Plus its fun. I mean neat graphs and all.
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Interesting to see the groups go from vertical to round and then horizontal dispersion in just 0.003 increments.
My 0.3 grain powder tests show the same pattern in several calibers.
Guess I will have to fork up for the micrometer seating dies because 0.003 increments in a standard die is a pita.
Good shooting btw
My 0.3 grain powder tests show the same pattern in several calibers.
Guess I will have to fork up for the micrometer seating dies because 0.003 increments in a standard die is a pita.
Good shooting btw
What charge would you use with Varget? I currently am in the opposite position, I have more Varget than CFE223.
I never got my varget load to come togeather because I was using the wrong bullets. His gun doesn't like hornady bullets.
Burnt up a lot of varget trying.
As soon as I went to smk's life got easy. The varget I have left is unsustainable so waiting on that.
At 95-98% of book max is where most of my cfe223 loads come in.
At 98% + usualy goes to scatter mode then gets ugly quick it doesn't like compressed it seems.
Burnt up a lot of varget trying.
As soon as I went to smk's life got easy. The varget I have left is unsustainable so waiting on that.
At 95-98% of book max is where most of my cfe223 loads come in.
At 98% + usualy goes to scatter mode then gets ugly quick it doesn't like compressed it seems.
Ive had trouble getting 155 and 178 both ELD/BTHP to shoot in my 308. Moving to either Sierra 155 SMKs or Berger 155.5s.
Not sure your situation but my sons 308 ruger has a stingy box and we have to stay in "mag" lenght, it also has a chamber that seems to have been formed around fgmm specs .
Ok I give up trying to cram eld and vld bullets in it. I discussed it with the folks at Berger and they confirmed my choices should be hybrids. Smk's run great in it as well.
There is no peformance gain past 800 yards if your gun won't run something.
Quickly sorting most hornady out of my rotation. Guns that can be loaded long seem to like them alright.
Ok I give up trying to cram eld and vld bullets in it. I discussed it with the folks at Berger and they confirmed my choices should be hybrids. Smk's run great in it as well.
There is no peformance gain past 800 yards if your gun won't run something.
Quickly sorting most hornady out of my rotation. Guns that can be loaded long seem to like them alright.
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