.308 Winchester

[jLorenzo]

Not sure your situation but my sons 308 ruger has a stingy box and we have to stay in "mag" lenght, it also has a chamber that seems to have been formed around fgmm specs .

Ok I give up trying to cram eld and vld bullets in it. I discussed it with the folks at Berger and they confirmed my choices should be hybrids. Smk's run great in it as well.

There is no peformance gain past 800 yards if your gun won't run something.

Quickly sorting most hornady out of my rotation. Guns that can be loaded long seem to like them alright.

Exact same issue here. Using a Legacy Sports mag on a budget Howa. Shoots FGMM 168s really well. I assumed it was the ogive and bullet jump. I can barely fit 2.80 in the mag. I have single fed jammed 175 Nosler CCs and they shot very well.
Kind of a bummer because I was wanting to run the 155 ELDs but as you said under 800 and even 1,000 the difference is negligible.

 

[Snuby642]

The difference in ogives and how much bullet you have to shove in the case.
This is a great explination from a company that sells both secant, tangent
and a hybrid.

What is the difference between a Secant, Tangent, and Hybrid Ogive?

A Tangent Ogive (like our standard BTs) is less sensitive to seating depth but has more drag and a lower BC than a Secant Ogive of the same length.

bergerbullets.com

Imho the 168g hybrid from Berger or the 168g Smk is a good choice.

 

[viking78]

Happy 30.8 day.
Greetings from Finland, land of the LAPUA & TIKKA.

 

[Nostrings]

I use 45.0 of

What are some good powders for 155s in a 20" barrel? Preferably more commonly "available" stuff, also maybe Vitavourhi?

viht 135 with lapua brass and gmm primers for a rem 40X TDR with a 20 in . 2882 MV , slight extractor mark but it’s a great load for me. The bullets are 155 custom Comp nosler. I can run up a few of the 155 scenar and get back with you.

 

[jLorenzo]

I use 45.0 of

viht 135 with lapua brass and gmm primers for a rem 40X TDR with a 20 in . 2882 MV , slight extractor mark but it’s a great load for me. The bullets are 155 custom Comp nosler. I can run up a few of the 155 scenar and get back with you.

I have 300 155 SMKs on the way. Just grabbed 2# of N140, very happy with the N150 Ive been using with 175 Nosler CCs but want to switch to 155s. I have Varget, RL15 and CFE223 I can try also. Bunch of Federal brass Im going to shoot for awhile but I do have 100 Lapuas.

 

[Gungnir388]

I tested my EC tuner brake last week. Here are the results at 100yds and 300yds. Of note this is shot with 40.9gr of IMR 4064 at a BTO of 2.1510 with 175gr scenar-l.

100yds:

300yds:
First is just a 100yds confirmation

I did not account for any wind whatsoever. While I am happy with the results, I would like my groups to be tighter. There were no flyers at 300yds. I did my best to account for the flyers at 100yds. While I was shooting the 100yds I would take a shot get up and let my daughter see. Then I would sight in get up let me daughter see etc so she could understand POA/POI and follow through and recoil management. As I have only been reloading for less than a year, I am still learning and refining everything. My actual powder weight is 40.7grs of IMR 4064 which nets me 2605MV. Not much difference between 40.9grs. The node is from 40.5-40.9 muzzle velocities are within 20fps in this range.

As for the writing on the targets, I was teaching my daughter some things and why I was using those targets etc. She has a very accurate ruger precision 22lr that she smokes steel with.

 

[TommyD11730]

Hey guys, getting low on IMR 4064. I do see IMR 4166 for sale vs 4064. They are right next to each other on the burn rate scale.
Anyone messing with it?

Thanks

 

[JMGlasgow]

I've used it in 6.5 Creedmoor with 130's and 308 with 155 and 168 grain bullets. It was decent. I'd use it again if I had it.

 

[jLorenzo]

Anyone have experience with N140? I am new to Vihtavouri but so far my experience with N150 has been very positive just a little too slow for my 20". Loading up some 155 SMKs with N140, Varget and maybe CFE223 as soon as time permits.

 

[Snuby642]

My chrono bit it but the cfe223 was fast. Not quoting the numbers because that's about when it died .

Was + 100 of fgmm if true. In the 20 inch ten twist. Thought that was a mistake.

It went to a good group then +0.3g scatter then another 0.3g and pressure.
Load is 98% book max 168smk and not touching it. Slowing it down did not help. Seating depth did little as well.

When they going to drop some varget?

 

[5RWill]

Hey guys, getting low on IMR 4064. I do see IMR 4166 for sale vs 4064. They are right next to each other on the burn rate scale.
Anyone messing with it?

Thanks

4166 is almost identical to varget. In fact i think it’s referred to as generic varget. I used it in my 6.5x47 early on

 

[TommyD11730]

4166 is almost identical to varget. In fact i think it’s referred to as generic varget. I used it in my 6.5x47 early on

Burn chart says its closer to 4064 then Varget. Ill know more next weekend.

 

[5RWill]

Guide to IMR’s Enduron Powders — What You Need to Know « Daily Bulletin

IMR® Legendary Powders now offers four (4) Enduron powders: IMR 4166, IMR 4451, IMR 4955, and IMR 7977. Shooters looking for readily-available alternatives to hard-to-find extruded powders should definitely check out the Enduron line-up.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

I realize that but it is nearly a 1 to 1 for load data compared to varget. I used it as such for the first 1000rds through my 6.5x47. It was more or less interchangeable load data. What I’m saying is id work it up just like varget is my point.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Hey guys, getting low on IMR 4064. I do see IMR 4166 for sale vs 4064. They are right next to each other on the burn rate scale.
Anyone messing with it?

Thanks

I've used 4064. I actually tried for a while with it but could never get it quite where it needed to be. I have had much better luck with Accurate 2520 and TAC for my 223 load

 

[TommyD11730]

FWIW I was able (thanks quick load) to find a nice recipy with Accurate 4064 vs IMR. The Accurate also played nice with my chargemaster.
YMMV.

 

[drglock]

I shoot the 178 ELD-x out of a 20” 10 twist. Really likes 42.6 grains of Varget.

Out of my 20” with 178 ELDX 43.2 is the magic spot for Varget. Proof CF barrel

 

[BigKev72]

Anyone have a pet load that they are willing to share for 168gr A-Max over IMR 4064?
I realize it isn’t an optimal powder/projectile combination but it’s what’s available to me at the moment. CCI large rifle primers Will be the ignition source.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Anyone have a pet load that they are willing to share for 168gr A-Max over IMR 4064?
I realize it isn’t an optimal powder/projectile combination but it’s what’s available to me at the moment. CCI large rifle primers Will be the ignition source.

I have one (that I didn't choose to continue) but it was ok. Let me see if I can find the weight

 

[straightshooter1]

Anyone have a pet load that they are willing to share for 168gr A-Max over IMR 4064?
I realize it isn’t an optimal powder/projectile combination but it’s what’s available to me at the moment. CCI large rifle primers Will be the ignition source.

A lot depends on the seating depth you're going to load your cartridges to and if you're going to load them long, just how long depends on how much freebore you have in your .308. So, are you talking about loading to SAAMI spec where you're COAL is 2.800?

If you load them long, then something around 43 grs of IMR-4064 has worked well for me. But if you don't know your freebore where you can load long, be careful and only work up to this and look for pressure signs.

 

[BigKev72]

Not far off what I was thinking of. I used to load smks at 42.4gr but the A-Max is a little longer. Thanks for the info. As for the OAL I’m limited by magazine but will figure it out.

 

[TommyD11730]

Anyone pickup Sierras latest manual? Wondering what they list for 4166 Enduron on the 175SMKs.
Any help would be welcomed. Im trying to work up a mag length load vs the long length I normally shoot.
Thanks Guys.

 

[5RWill]

Anyone pickup Sierras latest manual? Wondering what they list for 4166 Enduron on the 175SMKs.
Any help would be welcomed. Im trying to work up a mag length load vs the long length I normally shoot.
Thanks Guys.

From Hodgdon

 

[TommyD11730]

Yes, thanks however im looking for the Printed Data from Sierras latest book.

View attachment 7702693
From Hodgd

 

[Snuby642]

How much will you loose on the shorter oal? (Powder capacity)
We have a bolt gun limmited to the 2.80 mag lenght.

 

[Gungnir388]

You can see the bullet marks. Sign of too much neck tension? This is right before I tumbled them. Still visible after tumbling.

 

[straightshooter1]

You can see the bullet marks. Sign of too much neck tension? This is right before I tumbled them. Still visible after tumbling.

View attachment 7702783

View attachment 7702784
View attachment 7702785

Tell us more about the brass . . .

How many times fired, or is it virgin brass that's just been fired once?

What brand of brass?

Neck tension could certainly be a factor, but not necessarily the only factor that could lead to this. For example, it could be an issue having to do with the chamfering where tool is a bit dull and leaving it own little burr inside or the angle might not be steep enough. Or cases that have several firings and have never been annealed where the neck tension is producing a lot of grip. And, having very clean necks and not using any lube can easily result in this.

 

[Gungnir388]

@straightshooter1 alpha munitions, annealed, first firing. .335 neck bushing with a .306 mandrel. Seating went with no abnormalities.

 

[straightshooter1]

alpha munitions, annealed, first firing. .335 neck bushing with a .306 mandrel. Seating went with no abnormalities.

So, this is virgin brass that's been fired for the 1st time and you've sized the cases or at the least, neck sized them. You didn't say whether you lubed the necks with sizing or when seating. To me, it looks like what I've seen with virgin brass that was squeaky clean and not lube was used to seat the bullets. In addition at looking close to your picture below, it appears some of the mouths edges have been rolled a little, which would cause a little scraping of bullet as its being seating. I'm guessing with limited information.

 

[Gungnir388]

So, this is virgin brass that's been fired for the 1st time and you've sized the cases or at the least, neck sized them. You didn't say whether you lubed the necks with sizing or when seating. To me, it looks like what I've seen with virgin brass that was squeaky clean and not lube was used to seat the bullets. In addition at looking close to your picture below, it appears some of the mouths edges have been rolled a little, which would cause a little scraping of bullet as its being seating. I'm guessing with limited information.

View attachment 7702903

I did not not neck size them as they are at .335 from alpha. Just ran a .306 mandrel with imperial graphite applied by dipping the necks. It does appear that the mouth edges look rolled. I did not use lube to seat the rounds

 

[straightshooter1]

I did not not neck size them as they are at .335 from alpha. Just ran a .306 mandrel with imperial graphite applied by dipping the necks. It does appear that the mouth edges look rolled. I did not use lube to seat the rounds

Hmmm??? OK, you used an Expander Mandrel and that's good to make sure necks are round and that you get the neck tension you want. But, you didn't say WHEN you used the Imperial Dry Lube; like before you ran the mandrel, before you charged them with powder, or both . . .??? Usually, giving the neck some of that dry lube before charging will help a lot in avoiding such scrapes. though it won't help much having rolled case mouths. On virgin brass, is usually helps to run the cases in a chamfering tool. My best results have been from running my virgin brass through my Lee Collet Die as it tends to take care of it all.

 

[Gungnir388]

Used prior to the mandrel. Don’t use lube when seating. I did debur and chamfer the cases. I never noticed marks that prominent before this batch. I dont know if that rolled appearance is from the light I was holding reflecting weird or what. I’m not that hard on my brass. I’ll look into the lee collet die. I great appreciate the help and your time, thank you

 

[straightshooter1]

Used prior to the mandrel. Don’t use lube when seating. I did debur and chamfer the cases. I never noticed marks that prominent before this batch. I dont know if that rolled appearance is from the light I was holding reflecting weird or what. I’m not that hard on my brass. I’ll look into the lee collet die. I great appreciate the help and your time, thank you

On virgin brass or wet tumbled brass where the necks are very clean, I found I got results like you got. And where you're only lubing the case for the mandrel, there's probably not enough of the lube left to do much lubing. For brass that is virgin or real clean, like after wet tumbling, I always dry lube case a neck just before seating the bullet using a q-tip to swab the inside. The little cup of dry lube sits next to my arbor press when I'm doing the seating. It really helps reduce the seating resistance and eliminates or at least minimizes those kinds of scratches.

When I used to do just the expander mandrel for virgin brass, I would still have heavy resistance when seating, even though the neck tension was right were it was supposed to be and using dry lube. The use of the collet die really helped with getting easier seating and more consistent seating with virgin brass.

Hope it all solves your problem there. Good Luck.

 

[TC.TURTLECREEK]

Used prior to the mandrel. Don’t use lube when seating. I did debur and chamfer the cases. I never noticed marks that prominent before this batch. I dont know if that rolled appearance is from the light I was holding reflecting weird or what. I’m not that hard on my brass. I’ll look into the lee collet die. I great appreciate the help and your time, thank you

if it matters, i use lee collet and have similar marks. i don't worry about them as im getting single digit SDs and my groups meet my needs. i'm seating with 1.5 thou tension.

 

[Gungnir388]

@TC.TURTLECREEK Thank you for the reply. I am fairly new to reloading and trying to ask and find out what I dont know that I dont know.

 

[TC.TURTLECREEK]

@TC.TURTLECREEK Thank you for the reply. I am fairly new to reloading and trying to ask and find out what I dont know that I dont know.

I still don't know what I know and what I don't know! .

 

[fdkay]

Anyone have a pet load that they are willing to share for 168gr A-Max over IMR 4064?
I realize it isn’t an optimal powder/projectile combination but it’s what’s available to me at the moment. CCI large rifle primers Will be the ignition source.

4064 is a good powder for the .308
I just tried a load this past weekend, accuracy was good, not great, but conditions were not good either.
I loaded 44.5 grains of 4064 and a Hornady 168 BTHP, not the AMAX.
It is important to note, I used Winchester brass. According to the Hodgdon website, 45 grains is max with Winchester brass.
Winchester brass is roomy, Hornady, Federal etc... are not so you MUST start lower.

 

[Chickentoast]

I'm moving to ADG brass from Fed GMM. Anyone have powder differentials from one to the other? Obviously I can just load down and test back up, but if a few people have done this already, perhaps we can benefit from their knowledge, and waste less of our now precious resources .

 

[Gungnir388]

I still don't know what I know and what I don't know! .

That rings true from us both then.

 

[straightshooter1]

4064 is a good powder for the .308
I just tried a load this past weekend, accuracy was good, not great, but conditions were not good either.
I loaded 44.5 grains of 4064 and a Hornady 168 BTHP, not the AMAX.
It is important to note, I used Winchester brass. According to the Hodgdon website, 45 grains is max with Winchester brass.
Winchester brass is roomy, Hornady, Federal etc... are not so you MUST start lower.

Yeah Winchester has more volume, which helps (e.g. 57.7 gr H2O vs 56.0 grs).

I've gone as high as 44.5 of 4064 in Lapua brass, but that's a load putting pressure just over SAAMI max and I was getting pressure signs. 44.0 grs worked nicely for me with Lapua Palma brass.

 

[BigKev72]

I’ve been using 4064 for years and this is just a change of bullet. It’s been great for 147gr ball and 155 TMK’s but the A-Max is a bit of a different animal lengthwise.

 

[Snuby642]

FC Brass Federal 210 primers.

Are these tight fitting for everyone or just me?
Was tough with my hand primer just for a batch of 50.

Dang near stopped to set up press.

 

[straightshooter1]

FC Brass Federal 210 primers.

Are these tight fitting for everyone or just me?
Was tough with my hand primer just for a batch of 50.

Dang near stopped to set up press.

Not all .308 FC brass is the same. For example, in my pic below the primers seat much easier into the cases like those on the left than those on the right. So, which is it for you?

 

[Snuby642]

The ones on the left, all first fired FGMM
I'm thinking the ones on the right are crimped .mil ?

I did use my pocket gauge to make Shure, still tight.
On other brass / calibers my go to is CCI.

My sons gun loves FGMM 168 and since out of Varget tweaking cfe223 48gr seating depth.

 

[straightshooter1]

The ones on the left, all first fired FGMM

I've reloaded a great many of them and not found any them particularly hard seating; certainly not like get with Lapua or Peterson brass. So, can't tell if you're dealing with a one off issue or otherwise there might be something going on with your seating tool??? Though I use my Co-Ax press to seat my primers, I can still tell if their seating tight or not.

The ones on the left, all first fired FGMM
I'm thinking the ones on the right are crimped .mil ?

Correct, the right one's were "crimped .mil". Even when I removed the crimp (using a deburring tool), they still seated tight after uniforming.

I did use my pocket gauge to make Shure, still tight.
On other brass / calibers my go to is CCI.

LRP CCI's are .0002 - .0003" larger in diameter than Federal. . . so???

For sure though, those FC pockets will loosen up after a few firings.

My sons gun loves FGMM 168 and since out of Varget tweaking cfe223 48gr seating depth.

I like 168 SMK's too as they work really well for me at the short and medium ranges. But I may switch to the new 169 SMK's as so far they seem to be working even better; their BC is better than the 168's.

If you haven't already, you might want to try out some AR-Comp as it has worked very well with these bullets. And, barrel cleaning is much easier and faster with it.

 

[Snuby642]

Could be my Lee hand primer large setup is sticky?
Since I load the 308 in smaller batches I normally use the press.

I use the hand primer for 223 large batches so I can sit in the fat butt chair and talk to wife.

Thanks for the suggestions I'll see if I can find any of that.

 

[jLorenzo]

Anyone have experience with BLC2? Ive heard its very temp sensitive so I am thinking of using it this winter.

 

[Snuby642]

I could use some help.

Sierra Game King 165 #2140 load data.
I can't get my hands on a Sierra book, everyone's out.

Maybe a snapshot of the page?

 

[fdkay]

I could use some help.

Sierra Game King 165 #2140 load data.
I can't get my hands on a Sierra book, everyone's out.

Maybe a snapshot of the page?

 

[Snuby642]

Many thanks to @fdkay
That will get me rolling a batch for my son to hunt with after testing.

I noticed H335 in there might try it.
Maybe the last lb of varget since a low round count use.

Did you get the book digital?
I didn't see that option on thier site today.

Just finished swage, reem and uniform 100+ of some first fired from his gun today.

Thank you very much.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I have one (that I didn't choose to continue) but it was ok. Let me see if I can find the weight

Found it. Sorry it took a while. Somewhere in that range or a little more was pretty decent but not a keeper for me. @BigKev72