.308 Winchester

I have not tried AR Comp.
I use 2000MR with success for lighter bullets 150 gr to 200 gr, and RL 17 for 175, 176, 177 gr, and others like 230 Atip.
The 2000MR is easier to obtain than RL 17.

AR comp appears good top velocity with 125 and 130 gr, but falls off after 168 gr according to this manual it comes out last in the 168 gold dot for velocity. But good in the 168 match.
Here it Max's out a 100 fps slower than than 2000MR under regular pressure loads.
But that only means it will not be super fast, but it may be fast enough and accurate enough for your needs to make a perfect load for you...so you'll just have to try it.
It's been several years since I've used 2000MR in my .308. Yes, I got good velocity and found a couple good loads, but I stopped as I was not getting the consistency I look for due to wide range of temperatures I shoot in here in AZ. 😵‍💫

I've also got some RL17 that I've used for 185 Jugs that also would perform quite well, but had the same kind of problem with temp sensitivity. :rolleyes:
 
It's been several years since I've used 2000MR in my .308. Yes, I got good velocity and found a couple good loads, but I stopped as I was not getting the consistency I look for due to wide range of temperatures I shoot in here in AZ. 😵‍💫

I've also got some RL17 that I've used for 185 Jugs that also would perform quite well, but had the same kind of problem with temp sensitivity. :rolleyes:
I don't live in Arizona, but spent a summer in Tuson.
So temperature sensitivity never bothered me here. It's a none issue.
The temperature won't change 20° by the time I load them to the time I shoot them most days.
And temperature is adjustable here 10,000 ft elevation just 60 miles away...in 30 miles the temperature usually drops 10 to 12 degrees in the summer. So I don't shoot in 90 plus temperatures. And always shoot in a stand of trees shaded and comfortable.
I shoot mostly in a 30 degree span summer to winter, 55 to 85 degrees, and don't go in extreme temperature conditions which are rare.
 
I used H4350 the most temperature stable powder in the 308 not looking for temperature stability but accuracy in the long barrel long action with an 8 twist.

308 long action 8 twist
200 gr SMK, Lapua cases LR, Win primer 48.0 gr H4350, 3.175" COAL.
Velocity 2681 fps ave
Group 10 shots .699"

Also used H4350 with the 230 gr SMK, & 225 ELDM.
Another powder is 6.5 Staball with 208 to 230 gr Atip, for a fairly temp stable ball powder. It works with heavy bullets and hybrid cases pretty well.
Ya need a 9 twist to properly stablize some of the heavier bullets.
If you can run 208 gr bullets 6.5 Staball may help ya out in Arizona with hybrid cases.
 
I used H4350 the most temperature stable powder in the 308 not looking for temperature stability but accuracy in the long barrel long action with an 8 twist.

308 long action 8 twist
200 gr SMK, Lapua cases LR, Win primer 48.0 gr H4350, 3.175" COAL.
Velocity 2681 fps ave
Group 10 shots .699"

Also used H4350 with the 230 gr SMK, & 225 ELDM.
Another powder is 6.5 Staball with 208 to 230 gr Atip, for a fairly temp stable ball powder. It works with heavy bullets and hybrid cases pretty well.
Ya need a 9 twist to properly stablize some of the heavier bullets.
If you can run 208 gr bullets 6.5 Staball may help ya out in Arizona with hybrid cases.
A few things
I find your finding interesting
So I looked into hybrid cases on line. I instantly saw Bartlein won’t sell or warranty a barrel for this use. That is a huge red flag for me. Bartlien tends to be on cutting edge of barrel technology

Varget in 308 is not a short barrel powder. It’s best in 22-30” bolt guns
H4895 works better in short barrels
I have used a bunch of H4450 in 308 and just can’t get enough powder in case to get velocities to make it competitive

I wonder why no one in F TR is using a hybrid cases in competition?
 
A few things
I find your finding interesting
So I looked into hybrid cases on line. I instantly saw Bartlein won’t sell or warranty a barrel for this use. That is a huge red flag for me. Bartlien tends to be on cutting edge of barrel technology

Varget in 308 is not a short barrel powder. It’s best in 22-30” bolt guns
H4895 works better in short barrels
I have used a bunch of H4450 in 308 and just can’t get enough powder in case to get velocities to make it competitive

I wonder why no one in F TR is using a hybrid cases in competition?
I think one has to keep in mind the objective behind the development of the hybrid cases . . . that being for short barrel lightweight guns to deliver the energy on the target that larger guns can produce.
 
😵‍💫 I don't live in Arizona, but spent a summer in Tuson.
So temperature sensitivity never bothered me here. It's a none issue.
The temperature won't change 20° by the time I load them to the time I shoot them most days.
And temperature is adjustable here 10,000 ft elevation just 60 miles away...in 30 miles the temperature usually drops 10 to 12 degrees in the summer. So I don't shoot in 90 plus temperatures. And always shoot in a stand of trees shaded and comfortable.
I shoot mostly in a 30 degree span summer to winter, 55 to 85 degrees, and don't go in extreme temperature conditions which are rare.
Summer time in the Phoenix area, low temperatures often don't fall below 90°F (elevation here between 800 to 1700 feet, and Density Altitude around 150 to 400 ft.). Getting out in early morning to shoot in 90° and the temperature moves up from there quickly. Other times of the year, in a single morning is can easily move from 65° to 90°. The higher temperatures really slows down the rate of fire when target shooting. 😵‍💫 Traveling to hunt can be end up at 7,000 - 8000 ft. in much cooler conditions, which can make it a little challenging to develop a really good load at ranges in the Phoenix area before heading out.
 
Summer time in the Phoenix area, low temperatures often don't fall below 90°F (elevation here between 800 to 1700 feet, and Density Altitude around 150 to 400 ft.). Getting out in early morning to shoot in 90° and the temperature moves up from there quickly. Other times of the year, in a single morning is can easily move from 65° to 90°. The higher temperatures really slows down the rate of fire when target shooting. 😵‍💫 Traveling to hunt can be end up at 7,000 - 8000 ft. in much cooler conditions, which can make it a little challenging to develop a really good load at ranges in the Phoenix area before heading out.
It's 56° here and won't change 10 degrees in 8 hours. I'd need a jacket if I head into the mountains to shoot.
Ya need to move up to the Canyon area, the part of Arizona that looks like home to me.
You are where you are and it does get hot.

Your lower elevation shooting numbers 1700 ft will be no good at 7000 ft...but Kestrel can help with that, for many.
I never used it hunting big game, just sight in for 100 yds. Or use the point blank method if expecting a long shot.
Never needed any of that cause the elk stay off the meadows and run the deep pole thickets several canyons in. Shots will be from 35 to 100 yds...mostly 35 yds and on the run or one good leap and they dissappear. Let them run, stop, wait, and track them down again, and kill them. Wherever they go you go.
I lived there for awhile in a log cabin with a tin roof, in the Blue Mountains along Onion Creek on a 4 wheel drive trail, working gold claim security for a mining operation.

Back to your template problem. You'll probably have to compromise, and see if a moderately temp stable will fit your needs.

What game bullet do you plan on using? Some places copper bullets are required, I always used jacketed lead.
Whatever the bullet it should be readily available and cheap enough so you can afford lots of practice.
What powders do you have available? And are they stable enough. H4895, RL 15.5?, Winchester Staball series, Varget, H4350, or IMR 4451 Enduron series pretty slow. Can enough be put in the case to reach s descent velocity in a hybrid case?
Cartridge overall length? Water capacity?
And ya come up with an answer as to which of the less temp sensitive powders are usable...not many.


One bullet and one powder for everything you intend to kill. That will build confidence, when you practice with it all the time, any temprature, any elevation.

Take your 308 small game hunting alot. Shoot squirrels & rabbits running and standing, with your big game load. Use various field shooting positions.
 
It's 56° here and won't change 10 degrees in 8 hours. I'd need a jacket if I head into the mountains to shoot.
Ya need to move up to the Canyon area, the part of Arizona that looks like home to me.
You are where you are and it does get hot.

Your lower elevation shooting numbers 1700 ft will be no good at 7000 ft...but Kestrel can help with that, for many.
I never used it hunting big game, just sight in for 100 yds. Or use the point blank method if expecting a long shot.
Never needed any of that cause the elk stay off the meadows and run the deep pole thickets several canyons in. Shots will be from 35 to 100 yds...mostly 35 yds and on the run or one good leap and they dissappear. Let them run, stop, wait, and track them down again, and kill them. Wherever they go you go.
I lived there for awhile in a log cabin with a tin roof, in the Blue Mountains along Onion Creek on a 4 wheel drive trail, working gold claim security for a mining operation.

Back to your template problem. You'll probably have to compromise, and see if a moderately temp stable will fit your needs.

What game bullet do you plan on using? Some places copper bullets are required, I always used jacketed lead.
Whatever the bullet it should be readily available and cheap enough so you can afford lots of practice.
What powders do you have available? And are they stable enough. H4895, RL 15.5?, Winchester Staball series, Varget, H4350, or IMR 4451 Enduron series pretty slow. Can enough be put in the case to reach s descent velocity in a hybrid case?
Cartridge overall length? Water capacity?
And ya come up with an answer as to which of the less temp sensitive powders are usable...not many.


One bullet and one powder for everything you intend to kill. That will build confidence, when you practice with it all the time, any temprature, :LOL:any elevation.

Take your 308 small game hunting alot. Shoot squirrels & rabbits running and standing, with your big game load. Use various field shooting positions.
Thanks for the thoughts . . . some good ideas there! I've always been a fan of, what I'd call "real hunting", like taking game down inside 200 yds. And like you, I've always used jacketed lead . . .has always been my preference. Because of my age (78) and some physical limitation these days, I'm not trampling around mountains hunting any more . . . though I might consider less active hunting if a youngster invites me to straggle along and go after and haul any kill of mine. :LOL: I only mentioned the hunting issue as I often find myself helping some hunters around here at the ranges as the hunting season starts.

These days, I simply enjoy target shooting (~2,500 center fire rounds a year) and experimenting with reloading to see how well this or that works or not. It's only been ~8 years ago that I got into reloading. I have lots of time to play. :love: Instead of going out and shooting squirrels and rabbits with my .308, I'll shoot flies. ;) :LOL:
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I've got a lot of good powder for my .308, to include H4895, RL15.5, Varget, IMR-4064 and of course. . . AR-Comp. I never thought about actually trying H-4530 as I felt it was just a little too slow for the .308.
 
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